Pat Spriggs

I immediately started thinking of "If You Really Love Me" by Stevie Wonder. A really good example of that hook laden song you are referring to. It starts out with the main theme, infectious, over and deliciously over: And if you really love me, won't you tell me.. And if you really love me, won't you tell me.. And if you really love me, Why don't you tell me? Then I won't have to be playing around Then he gets into another unforgettable lyric and melodic hook You call my name, oh so sweet To make your kiss incomplete.. Then he completes his thought to get us back to the name of the song, which is?? REPEATED And so on..Stevie is a great example of what a hook and sub-hooks should sound like. Any fledgling or experienced songwriter should have a favorite in every genre. R&B, Rock, Gospel, etc.... But he's not the only one. There are other more modern examples. Like that Eminem and Rhianna song a few years back, I Love The Way You Lie. She starts the song out with the hook and main theme: Just gonna stand there And watch me burn But it's alright Because I like The way it hurts Just gonna stand there And hear me cry But that's alright Because I love The way you lie I love the way you lie After he does his rap, which is, sort of got a rhythm hook to it, she comes in to get us back to why we listen to the song. That melodic, catchy, melancholy line: Just gonna stand there And watch me burn...yada.... I love the way you lie I try and help out song writers by teaching them to find a really simple chord progression and repeat it over, and over, and...over...til that hook just kinda jumps out at them. But you are so right, John. There is more to popular music than the catchy hook/chorus. There are simple, 1 bar melodies that can make a song and make it a timeless classic. Remember Chuck Mangione's trumpet classic, "Feels So Good"? Have a listen to it and see what I mean. Yea, even Beethoven knew what he was doing with his 5th Symphony hook. Talk about hard to forget!

I have listened to a lot of songs here on the forum here. I have listened to and created amateur/semi pro music for most of my adult life. And I have come to a really simple, yet critical, conclusion: Most of the stuff we hear and create (on forums like this and other amateur formats) doesn't have a good melody, or in pop terms, a good hook. Now, I know that this is common talk. We have all heard the lecture, read the book, taken the class online, watched a youtube tutorial...you get the picture. We have had the word "hook" indelibly etched into our songwriting conscious, even going into our subconscious. We have been told that without it, we will not grab the attention of our listener. Without the hook your audience will change the channel. They will click elsewhere. In other words, they will not listen. I hope this doesn't sound preachy. I'm just really passionate about this subject. I am in the continuous hunt for the hook in any song I start. I have a boatload of bits on my phone that I have to scan through on my next writing go-round. I hum, beat, sing, play and talk through song ideas on my recorder app. I hope you do the same. I will listen intently to each one again and again. Most I will cut because I don't get a rise from the hook. My ears need to fall in love with that little line or lines that will have me obsessing for the rest of the project. There are some songs that I have written that I am sorry I spent so much time on because I chose to love my idea rather than follow the Rule of the Hook. Ralph Murphy said hit songs usually have five to seven repetitions of the title, but he cautions not to overdo it. And those repetitions need to be a fit and trim and wonderful as possible. What kind of litmus test do you put your songs through? Do you trust that the melody, or the hook, is something that anyone will want to whistle or hum, even if they don't particularly like the subject matter?

I have one called "In a Dream" that is similar sounding, but not as genius, as the theme for "A Beautiful Mind" called 'A Kaleidoscope of Mathematics'. by James Horner. Just lovely.

Well, I entered "You're Never Far Away" which is in the Christian category. But I have until August. I may add a pop and an instrumental.

Did anyone enter their song yet in their contest? Will you? I did. This year is my my first entry in any contest.

A good melody will keep me listening longer then great words. My writing always starts with the melody, the feel, the theme. Sometimes both. But the melody is king, my friend

Thanks, Donna! That is really helpful. I appreciate you. I am leaning towards sending them a song or two soon. Heck, I'm gonna send a song or two to your Uncle Charlie if he will listen hahaha...that's how much work I'm gonna put in this year. I'm just gonna take risks!

Yup!! I kinda knew the confirmation I was going to hear. Really, at this point in my "career", I'm thinking that by-passing the contest thing is the way to go. I am going to spend the next few months researching songwriting communities and networking. Getting to know people is the best advice I have been given about getting my stuff heard by "the right people"

I am quite sure that this topic has been discussed many times here on the forum, but I would like to know if any has heard of the site "We Are Listening"? and have actually entered their contest. Does anyone here enter contests regularly? If so, which are the best? Rather, the most trusted... Thank you all! I love this place and YOU