gradual

Great thread. I can relate to this topic. I worry about this sometimes too, not because I expect commercial success for any one of my tunes, but just because it's tough to come to the realization that one of your "babies" isn't actually yours. I'm usually not comfortable sharing my work until it's complete, so there are other ways I deal with it. For one thing, I never trust the first idea that pops into my head, because those are the ideas that will have the most danger of being derivative of something else. My initial idea is the starting point, but I revise a lot. If theres a part that sounds a little too obvious, I will change a note here, change an interval there, change the chord underneath. At the same time, the changes I make still need to flow and sound natural, so it's a delicate balancing act. But by the time I finish it, it will have gone through enough revisions for me to be reasonably confident it doesn't sound too much like any one particular song. Some other things that help: I tend to write lyrics first, because then I'm not starting from nothing. The melody I create will be derived from the meter of the words, so I know I didn't just pull it from thin air. Starting with chords can work well, because again, you know that's the harmonic foundation that will determine what the notes of the melody will be. A lot of popular songs have the same chords, so trying something other than your standard basic chord progressions can sometimes help to avoid melodic similarities between yours and another song. Though a lot of unique songs have been written with just standard chord progressions, so it isn't a necessity. Having a basic knowledge of music theory can be invaluable (and I admit mine is fairly basic), because knowing your scales and intervals, major, minor, diatonic, non-diatonic, etc., and being able to play around with them can make it easier to "construct" melodies, rather than just stumbling on to one and hoping it's yours. It allows you to better understand the different musical possibilities that can be taken. Recording myself helps too, because it gets me off of the playing/singing part of my brain, and onto the purely listening part. I can take a step back and more objectively hear what I've got, and what changes I might need to make. I don't claim to be an expert, but seeing as this tends to be an issue I think about quite bit when songwriting, and I've had to find ways of dealing with it so that it doesn't block me from writing, hopefully some of what I write here will be helpful. Funny, it's gotten to the point now where often I'll hear a song on the radio and think, "this sounds way too familiar; they should have revised that." Lol So clearly, a lot of songwriters--even professional ones--don't worry about this issue as much as I do.

Yes, I'd say that's your answer right there. I think a common mistake of beginning songwriters is to think there is a right or wrong way to do anything. Of course, it helps to have a basic knowledge of song structure, which you seem to already have. Beyond that, it's about what sounds right to you. Best approach is often just trial and error. Just try a bunch of stuff until you find something you're happy with.

I agree that going back and removing parts of finished songs after the fact could run the risk of making them sound awkward or incomplete.I say if the songs you've written sound right at the length they are...keep them that length. But for the songs you've yet to write...if making them shorter is your aim (which it sounds like it is), then always make a point to be mindful of length from the very beginning. That will inform the choices you make. Something as simple as limiting the number of lines in the verses or the chorus can go a long way. Commit to writing song sections that do not go over a certain number of lines (or measures, if you're a "music first" writer). Also keep intros short...avoid the temptation to add too many instrumental breaks or solos...a lot of these can add unecessary fat to a song. Listen to Beatles' Revolver for a good example of how it can be done...not a song on that album that went over the 3 minute mark.

Do what the Beatles did, and learn how to play as many songs as you can. Then when it comes time to write your own songs, try and forget everything you learned, and write. Your influences will come out in what you write, but it won't be forced. I think finding your own voice has to happen organically. Not by trying to copy anybody, and not by trying too hard to be original. You get better simply by doing. Don't worry about trying to be as good as "x artist". Just keep writing, and you'll naturally get better.

I really wish I could get inspired more often. Or at least know how to get it when I can most use it. Often, the thought of writing a song inspires me, but when I actually have time to do it, I'm just tired, or not in the mood. So really the key for me has been to learn to keep at it in the absence of inspiration. Just go over to my keyboard, or get out my pad and pen and do it, whether I feel like it or not. I get inspired once I hear it start coming together. So I guess my answer would be I get inspired by actually doing it. But I have to rely on things other than inspiration to get me to do it.

Yes, absolutely. I feel like I've described my own process many times...so I don't feel like going into it again. But I think it's probably less important the specific process one uses, than simply having one. Everybody's is going to be different...it's about finding what works for you. For me, it's helpful to know, even if I might decide to break routine and experiment, there will always be certain things that consistently get me results. I think I'm fortunate in that I'm never knocked out by the first spark of an idea...I've learned to just trust the process and know by being patient and working on it little by little, I'll eventually wind up with something I'm happy with. The real inspiration for me comes after it's finished, and I can hear how the work paid off...which encourages me to write another one. These days, I'm averaging about a song a month. But if I simply waited for magic to strike, I'd probably get nowhere.

My process is similar, in that I prefer to take a more methodical approach. There’s a series of steps that get me consistent results, so I stick with what works. Everybody’s process is different. What works for me might not work for somebody else, and vice versa. Mine tends to go like this: 1. Write lyrics. Experiment with different accents and rhythms to see if they flow, if words need to be cut, or moved around. Adjust accordingly. 2. Sit at an instrument and come up with chord progressions. 3. Play around with intervals on top of the chords until a melody forms. (This is where I find my rudimentary knowledge of music theory and scales comes in handy.) Keep changing stuff around until I’m satisfied. That said…I’d say melody writing is probably the hardest thing to describe to someone how to do (as opposed to chords, rhythm, etc.), because I think a lot of it comes down to instinct, rather than technique. I wouldn’t be able to describe in technical detail what makes a good melody…I just know what sounds right to me. I think most songwriters are the same way. Most people just naturally get a feel for what works, based on hearing hundreds of songs over their lifetime.

It's been about a year since the last time I wrote a new song, so I'll try my best tor remember how I do it. In recent years, I've gotten into the habit of writing lyrics first, usually starting with a title, and building the concept of the song around it. I always keep my trusty thesaurus and rhyming dictionary at hand. I don't necessarily use this method because it's easier, but because I've simply grown fond of doing it that way. It allows me to imagine the possibilities of what the music could be. I even speak the words in rhythm, experimenting with their meter to see if they flow. Kinda like rapping, I guess...lol. It's fun. Then by the time I sit down at an instrument, I already kind of have an idea of what the musical structure will be. So at this point, I'll just try different chord progressions, which suggest to me melodic ideas. I'm not one for whom melodies simply pop into my head (if they do, I don't trust that they're mine), so the melody will almost always go through quite a few revisions before I'm satisfied. Sometimes, I may adjust the lyrics to fit the melody, or vice versa. I think it all depends on what your strengths are. Even though I consider myself primarily a music guy, I've always been fairly competent at writing lyrics, and have never found it too difficult. So the lyrics first method works for me. But if you've always struggled with writing lyrics, it can help to have the structure of a pre-existing melody to guide you along...I've done it that way too. Some songwriters have said that music and lyrics come to them simultaneously...I admit that generally doesn't happen for me, but it's just another example of a method that can work for some people.

I do master my own tracks specifically for the purpose of posting them on the web. But I won't pretend my feeble attempts at it are anywhere close to pro-level. I just try to get them to sound decent enough on cheap computer speakers or headphones/earbuds, which is how they will likely be listened to on the web. Usually, there is an annoying build-up of muddy low-mid/midrange junk that gets magnified on these cheap devices, so I will try to filter out the problematic frequencies. But on a decent stereo system, it would sound overly bright and pretty terrible. So for officially releasing my music (which I am planning to do very soon), I will definitely be using the services of a professional. Part of what you are pay for with a professional services (besides an objective set of ears and better gear) is a proper acoustically-controlled environment, which is an extremely important factor. In your average basement or bedroom studio (or even some professional recording studios), it's near impossible to get an accurate representation of what the music actually sounds like, because the room colors the sound.

My reply is similar to a lot of people here...started when I was a little kid making up little tunes and singing them. I don't recall ever making the decision to start. It's just been something I've carried with me throughout life. Around maybe 11 or 12 years old, I started thinking of it more as "writing songs" (though it probably goes without saying that the songs I was coming up with around that time weren't very good). I think what really solidified it for me was the liner notes to my Billy Joel albums: "All songs written by...". It was around then that I started thinking I wanted to do that myself. I'd always looked up more to songwriters who wrote everything themselves, rather than work with co-writers. (I used to view co-writing as cheating, but I've since relaxed my viewpoint on that.) I have tried co-writing with others a couple of times, but it never really amounted to anything. Right now, what really inspires me about songwriting is the idea that I can create something than can go on to exist on its own and affect other people in such an immediate way. When a song is good, it tends to get stuck in people's heads, and it's gratifying to hear someone tell you they like a song of yours, or even better, hear them singing it back to you.

Precisely why I feel like songwriting, for me, is a poor method of communicating emotions, even though I know it works for some. I’ve heard people say they find songwriting therapeutic, like keeping a diary…I really can’t relate to that. I just want to write a good song, period; the rest is secondary. Usually whatever I come up with winds up expressing something I’m thinking or feeling (how can it not?). But it really doesn’t become apparent to me how to make my emotions work as a song, unless I have some hook or phrase to hang it on. Typically the hook or title line will suggest what the song will be about…very hard to do it the other way around. The only thing I might suggest is to allow for some time to pass…get some distance from the situation. Often I don’t even feel like writing anything when too many things are weighing on my mind. I find it’s much easier to say what I want to say when viewing things in hindsight…sometimes feelings are too intense in the moment and it’s hard to articulate them.

My answer would be "no"--I'm usually pretty bleh about it. Maybe there have been exceptions, but it's generally hard for me to get enthusiastic about a new idea in the early stages. I'm not really afraid of ruining it, because I don't even really know if it's good enough to begin with. But I've been doing it long enough to know that if I stick with the idea, there's plenty of potential to turn it into something. Eventually I start to sense that I may have something special, but only after I've had a chance to really develop it.

I agree about stretching yourself in terms of style. Such as if you’re more of an abstract lyricist, it can be helpful to write something a little more simple and direct, and vice versa. And as I explained, yes, in some situations, having a good grasp of genre is necessary, such as in writing music for commercials, or trying to pitch a song to a recording artist, for instance. But if somebody thinks, “I have to write ‘country’ lyrics to this music”, then the tendency might be to resort to cliches, “my baby left me, tears in my beer”, etc., because they have the notion that’s what a country song is supposed to sound like. Really, these days, there isn’t much difference between modern country and pop/rock except for a little fiddle/steel guitar in the mix, but unlike other genres, lyrics are much more direct, and there is a greater attention to detail. It takes a good level of skill to be able to write that way, because there is less you can get away with. But it isn’t like that’s a skill that can only be applied to country music. If you can write a good country song, you can probably write a good pop song, rock, R&B, etc. My objection is to the notion that one should be thinking in terms of “country” lyrics, or a country melody. How about “good” lyrics and melody? If a song is good, it should work in many genres.

I think the question to ask yourself, before "how", is "do you really need to?". If you are looking to pitch your songs to recording artists or get placement in TV or film, then genre identification is often necessary. I've never attempted this personally, but I know there are usually very specific guidelines that must be followed in order to secure a cut on an album or a placement in a commercial. Others have already provided some helpful insight in this thread on identifying genre elements, so I won't get into that. But if you're writing songs for yourself, I'm not sure if it's a useful thing to concern yourself with, because then you're thinking of music in terms of what boxes they fit into, and that's kind of limiting. I think it's better not to worry about genre, and just develop your own style, incorporating whatever elements you like, and disregarding the rest.

Yes, that's right.

Yes, I say you should bother with this. The thing is, it's probably not as hard as you think. The words just have sound like they would as if you were speaking them. Otherwise, when the accents are on the wrong syllables, IT tends TO sound UN-natur-AL. It's pretty easy to tell when they don't work. So one thing I like to do that can be a lot of fun, is before I put them to music, I'll "rap" the lyrics to myself--not in a rap/hip-hop style (which is usually too complex and not something a singer can easily sing), but just speaking them in rhythm. I'll try it several different ways, and choose which rhythm I like the best. Even just clapping your hands, and saying the lyrics to the beat can really work well. From there, you can tell pretty quickly if it is too wordy, or if you may have to cut out or add a few words or syllables to make it fit. If the words can be spoken easily in rhythm, then they should work when being sung. By the time I go to work on the music, I already have the framework in place, so it's easier to write the melody.

Personally, I admire writers who are eclectic… especially through the course of an album. To me, the albums that are the most interesting listening experiences are the ones that vary the feel, tempo, rhythm…otherwise the songs all start to run together and sound the same. Although, what I don’t particularly care for are artists who write songs purely as genre exercises, like, “This is my rock song, this is my dance song, this is my country song”, without bringing anything unique of their own to it. The ones who do it right, IMO, incorporate and mix together all those influences and put their own spin on it, so it still sounds unmistakably like them. But I think being concerned about what genre you are is best left to other people, really. As a writer, I think it hinders creativity to think too much about what box or category you fall into. Just pick your 10-12 best songs, period, and include those. Then, after the album is done, you can put on your marketing hat and start thinking about genres, target audiences, demographics, etc. But as a writer, that really shouldn’t be a concern.

I think maybe what's blocking you is that you are trying to write lyrics like Matt Mehana. And that you are hard on yourself when they dont sound enough like something Matt Mehana would write. It's an easy trap to fall into when youre fourteen--wanting to be just like a certain artist you admire. But the problem with that is that you're striving to be a carbon copy, rather than finding your own unique voice. So I guess my best advice is to just write. Finish something. Don't worry if it doesn't sound enough like your favorite songwriter…--I'll bet your lyrics aren't as bad as you think they are. The best way to get better at something is to just keep doing it. One thing that might be helpful is to find out some information about Matt Mehana's influences…--what books he reads, what music he listens to--…if you know where he gets his ideas, you might be able to write lyrics of your own that share his sensibilities, without merely rehashing his ideas. Also read books you like, listen to different kinds of music…--other writers may have different approaches that open up new possibilities for you to incorporate into your own stuff.

I’ve read about a technique of just sitting down and writing anything that pops into your head—and doing that 10 minutes a day (and no longer than that) every day when you first wake up in the morning, and that will generate raw material to shape into songs. But I really lack the self-discipline to stick with that routine. Plus, if I don’t at least have a clear aim as to where I want to go with it, I’m not very motivated to write. So what usually works for me—starting with a title. That suggests a possible direction—which will usually start me thinking up a concept or story-line. Then I’ll start writing the lyrics. As long as I have an idea where I’m going, and why I’m going there, it’s easier for me to finish.

This is an interesting discussion. I think I've always been a pretty good creative writer. English was one of my better subjects, and I always used to make up songs as a kid. But my lyrics often didn't make sense. They rhymed and had a certain number of syllables, but that was it. I thought that was enough. Of course when you're that young, your knowledge of language and how to use it is still very limited. The first book on songwriting that really helped me was "88 Songwriting Wrongs and How To Right Them", by Pat and Pete Luboff. I got the book when I was about 12 or 13, and I remember feeling overwhelmed with how many rules there seemed to be. But the most important rule seemed to be that lyrics actually need to make sense (who knew?) They need to be clear and not confusing, and all the relevant information must be in there. As I got older, I realized the "rules" were really just guidelines, and you didn't have to follow them all the time. But I feel that book did set me on a path, and although not all my songwriting attempts have been stellar, I think I'm a better writer overall for reading about it. Decades later, I picked up Writing Better Lyrics, by Pat Pattison, and remember getting a similar feeling the first time I skimmed through it--especially the first few chapters. Yet having recently read it again, it really does seem to have some great ideas in it. I guess the lesson is, if you pick up a book on craft, and are feeling a little intimidated by it, you're probably learning something useful. So if I absolutely had to choose a side here, I'd lean more toward picking up a book and reading about it. But I would definitely advise beginning songwriters to not get too intimidated by all the information presented. It's meant to help you, not stifle you. After a while, you'll begin to apply it out of habit, and writing will become easier. At least that's been my experience. YMMV.

I also have a problem with motivation. I'm not a big believer in waiting for the "muse"--in my own experience, every time I've purposely sat down to write something, I was able to come up with a usable idea. It doesn't usually come in finished form, nor is it an idea I'm incredibly enthusiastic about at first. But the initial seed is there. Then when I sit down to work on it some more later on, I'm off and running. So finishing a song is not a problem for me. It's simply starting that's the hard part. Just the act of turning off the internet or TV, making myself get up to sit at the piano, or grab my notebook and pen is such a challenge for me. I guess it's because songwriting takes a good deal of effort and concentration--it isn't something that I can passively escape into. It's like exercising. You may feel better after you do it, but it can be an ordeal just getting your butt to the gym.

Interesting thread. I don't remember a time when I consciously "started" songwriting, as I remember making up little songs ever since I was a little kid. It just seems to be something I've always done naturally. Why I do it today: I suppose I'm in the minority, in that I don't necessarily use songwriting as a way to express my feelings. I do think I am able to express myself better in writing than verbally, but when it comes to songs, I'm more interested in the craft side of things. I find that my feelings and experiences do tend to wind up in my songs anyway--I think it's impossible to write songs without drawing from your own life to some degree. But for me, trying to write a good song is really my only goal, whether I need to draw from my own experiences, or someone else's, or just completely make something up. If I don't think a particular feeling or experience of mine will make a good song, I'm really not that interested in using it. I had an interesting conversation with a fellow songwriter--he said he has trouble writing when his life is going well--that some form of turmoil fuels his best stuff. I found it interesting because I'm the opposite. I tend to shut down creatively when things are bothering me. To be motivated enough to write, I feel I need to be reasonably calm and content.

1. Do you sing, play an instrument or instruments? Yes. What instruments? Piano/keyboard/vocals When did you start playing? Been fiddling at it practically my whole life. Did you teach yourself? Mostly, though I have taken formal lessons too. 2. Are you in a band or bands? Used to be, but not currently. 3. Do you write songs? Yes Do you write lyrics, music or both? Both Do you have a writing partner. No Do you have music available on the web? if so where? I do, but it is not very recent. May post links once I update them. 4. Do you record your music? Yes Do you use a home studio? If so what gear do you use? An old PC, and and old version of Cakewalk. May update eventually, but works for me right now. Do you use a recording studio? No. 5. What other roles do you perform in the music business? None. Management? Label owner? Publishing? Promotion? Other? No. 6. Are you a tech head? No. 7. What country do you live in? United States 8. What are your ambitions? Just to write, record and perform my music, and hopefully find an audience. 9. Do you draw/paint/write stories/computer art/dance or other creative pursuit? No. What are your pastimes? I like to read, but music's my main one. 10. What would you like to get out of Songstuff? Just to participate in the discussions, see what others are doing.