Melody

[john]

Hey

Writing melody.... how do you develop your melodies? Do you do much after your initial pass?

I used to take melody writing for granted, often going for whatever seemed to go with the words and chords, the whole lot being written and developed at the same time. What I didn't do was really break it down to really work on the components on their own. Well not much.

I often used to start with the lyrics first, but looking back I can see now that the melodies were.... not great. Sure some songs would stumble upon a good melody but never satisfactorily. At least for me.

Melody, if no other part, has to be able to stand up on it's own. At least that's what I came to realize. Now, of all parts, melody is what gets my attention. It's what holds me. So, now I work on melody all the time. With and without accompaniment. Whistling, singing with nonsense words, trying out the lyrics. I do sing a lot more!

Cheers

John

[Boff]

When I'm writing melodies I try to sing my lyrics to the music that my co-writer has made, until I come up with something that doesn't sound that bad.. I really want to learn some stuff about writing melodies, intervals, rythm, what makes a melody stick and so on.

[john]

Hey

Awwwwww..... we are pretty well all creatures of habit.

I definitely go through many iterations evolving the song.

I think process is a good thing as long as it employs flexibility as part of that process. I would go so far as to say that a formal process can really enhance a song's chances. Process helps flow and focus, and as long as your process encourages and makes the most of all the creative aspects it is far from a rigid, stale environment. As you say, you have an informal process. Moving to a formal process needs to be little more than realizing how you work well and building on that.

Cheers

John

[Lazz]

Melody is core.

I think it is always melody which lasts in the memory.

At least that's my chosen delusion and - even as lyricist - I aim to work to that idea.

Often I have operated in the style I believe Boff is describing - where I have a skeletal bed of rhythm and harmony over which I am expected to create both words and a melodic line and shape. But am very conscious of my own limitations and find that without the impetus of some more informed and imaginative changes my solo product is pretty pedestrian and uninspired from a musical point of view even if it can be fun at times.

Lucky for me that I currently have slick co-writers for whom, as I understand it, the melody and chord structure develop together, much like Tom, as they chase down the expression of some unfolding inner motivating logic.

[john]

hey Lazz

It's good that you both recognize the value in good melody and also that you recognize that for you at least melody writing itself is best written by a collaborator, even if that is simply to allow you to focus on what you enjoy most or feel you are best at.

Have you written much in the way of melody yourself Lazz?

Cheers

John

[Venus]

Melody is core.

Echo that! Otherwise, it's just music OR lyrics (which is still pretty great), but not a "song." A song, you sing. "Song"writers, IMO, should have that at the forefront of their processes/philosophies/whatever.

[john]

Hey

So what is your approach to writing melody Venus? How do you go about it? What makes a particular melody work for you?

Cheers

John

[Lazz]

Have you written much in the way of melody yourself Lazz?

Not much to write home about.

"It Really Doesn't Matter" and "Something" have melodies courtesy of my good self.

"I Hate Babies" and "Birdie Dance" I am completely responsible for.

Shows my limitations immediately.

But I do occasionally spend time transcribing other folks' melodies.

Jazz solos, I mean.

I think that's a great way to develop melodically.

And a great way to really 'learn' a tune.

[FinnArild]

In earlier days, melodies for me was more a function of the rest of the song. As I have evolved, melody has become more and more important to the point where I think of almost everything as a melody. A bassline, a chord progression, a supporting lead synth - many times I treat more of them like melody rather than structure.

I also happen to think that one of the more important aspects of any melody is repetition. The most important thing about repetition is stickyness - repetition over verse, inside a verse or verse-line hammers down the point of the melody, but it can also be creatively used with rythm or modulation changes to form even more interesting structures while keeping in context.

[21Miles]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for dropping in on this one late but this is a favourite topic of mine and one that I struggle with.

I purchased a book by Ricky Rooksby titled “How to write a great melody” and tried my best to read it.

It has some great theory but wow is it hard to get through.

I came to the conclusion that it’s a black art. In other words it can’t be taught, learned or theorised. It will either come or it won’t. The only thing you can do is keep plugging away and maybe, if the gods are on your side, you will probably, given enough time, write a good one.

Thanks

Allan

[Roymega]

Hi Guys,

Sorry for dropping in on this one late but this is a favourite topic of mine and one that I struggle with.

I purchased a book by Ricky Rooksby titled "How to write a great melody" and tried my best to read it.

It has some great theory but wow is it hard to get through.

I came to the conclusion that it's a black art. In other words it can't be taught, learned or theorised. It will either come or it won't. The only thing you can do is keep plugging away and maybe, if the gods are on your side, you will probably, given enough time, write a good one.

Thanks

Allan

Totally agree with you on that Allan, there is no magic formula.. if there was, it would get really boring really fast..

[NormanandJourdan]

There are a few ways I go about writing melodies (but not limited to):

1) Write out a chord progression; improvise something with lyrics already written

2) Write out a chord progression; improvise something without lyrics already written

3) Write out a chord progression; write out the melody based on the chord progression

4) Write a melody first keeping in mind the form of the song. Sometimes chorus first, sometimes verse first. (sometimes I keep in mind some similar motivic ideas or sometimes I'll use a lot of leaps or just stepwise things, etc.)

5) Write a melody based on the feel and direction of the lyrics, then write chords to the melody.

6) Improvise a melody over another song's chord progression and reharmonize it!

-Norman

[Hyardacil]

I usually start from the harmony.

And I usually take some very complex harmony as well, in order to not limit myself to conventional sounds. I try cluster harmonies and all sorts of weird bass patterns. This largely has to do with the instrument I play too. With the piano one can create complex harmonies to accompany the right hand, which starts playing the melody. Some days it works, some days it doesn't. I usually try to come up with more than one theme or thematic phrases before I set out to put them to any kind of structure.

But my suggestion would be just that - to not limit yourself to conventional chords. Sometimes a melody comes out naturally from dissonance (or our need to solve that tension of dissonance) and creative harmonies.

[MikeRobinson]

Working, as I do, with (electronic...) music-paper, I start with a "lead sheet." (The sort of thing you buy as a "fake book.") And I'll write a line, add a few empty measures and then a new-line break. On the next staff, another line. And so on and on, sometimes for many pages. The pages are there because I studiously avoid deleting anything. If I rework a line, I copy-and-paste and then rework the copy. (Obviously, if there's a clam, I'll just fix it in-place.)

From "all this stuff," I choose things to copy into a new document, in which I'm now trying to "string together" melodies and, if I have any, perhaps a counter-melody beneath them. Chord patterns also begin to suggest themselves because by now I've worked-through the stuff for a while. I label the lines so I know where they came from in the other document(s). If a particular instrument suggests itself, I might label it that way, but usually it's just a piano-sound now. In this way, I build up pages of "strings."

It is strange what a mixture you come up with. Some of the lines are obviously-garbage. (Yet, studiously kept.) Sometimes the melody feels right but the timing is wrong. And sometimes that "mis-placed" note is just what you were looking for. You can feel that your subconscious is thinking about the song even when "you" aren't. When you drift away during a dull afternoon meeting, the song is there.

Sometimes a line is, well, "just a line." It's a descending progression with triplets dancing around the top. Or something. I have no idea where to put it or what it belongs to... but, "there it is." I toss a copy into the "pieces box." The mind is like that.

The computer's great because it can accurately play-back whatever you've written ... even if you don't have anywhere near the manual dexterity and hand/eye coordination to do such a thing yourself. (I write a lot of music that I can't play. Sigh...)

Having lost more than one digital file (despite backups... the files were somehow borked), I do print-out and label the working draft copies, and I shove them into a banker's box beneath the printer table.

And all of this is still just a lead-sheet: it's just notes. Maybe I've plinked on a keyboard a bit to sketch in a I-IV-V harmony. (Well, if the melody in progress really leans upon surrounding harmony, I have been known to sketch that in more detail.) But I kinda think that the melody has to be as strong as you can make it, first. Arranging the thing trying to build a three-minute song out of all those pieces, really is a separate process altogether. And making a recording is voodoo of which I know not.

Edited February 23, 2010 by MikeRobinson

[VORTEXPAX]

Hi, evry body,

Thanks Jhon, you encorage people,

I found after hours and hours playing guitar and looking for ideas, that lookin for harmonies across the guitar, not knowing the name or scale, just looking to find a road where some unknow chords progressions that make sense to my mood.

Sure lack of technic., but thats what i did in the next song. whit just two chord A and D, my first record on ABLETON.

worth to listen.

SOBRE LAS PIEDRAS

My link

[MikeRobinson]

I've been reading a book, Hearing and Writing Music: Professional Training for Today's Musician, by Ron Gorow (ISBN: 0-9629496-7-1), and lately I've been reading and re-reading (not really grokking it yet...) his chapter 6 on "Hearing Phrases," particularly his topic, "Tonality as a Tool" (p. 132 in my 2nd edition).

His argument is that: "When we look at abstract art, the mind creates relationships (this and all bold-faced emphasis is the author's) of shapes and colors, and a sense of orientation with earth, with gravity. When we hear tones, even random tones, the mind perceives tonal relationships. Even when music is deliberately atonal, we will try to form tonal relationships." He then proceeds: "We need not be analytical; we simply use tonality as a tool of perception when it is evident. For our purpose, tonality is temporary and fluid, having little relevance to previous or subsequent phrases." He asserts that this tonal structure provides "a template, a map of tonality, which may be used in the perception of a phrase." He calls it "a subjective tool," and says that "each person may interpret the influence of tonality a little differently."

Getting more specific, he points out that "Each tone, however remote, maintains an intervallic relationship with preceding tones. We may identify several consecutive tones as a tonal group, then proceed to the next perceived tonal group."

This, to me, seriously jars what I have traditionally thought about the relationship between "melody" and "accompaniment." The melody here is being presented as a sequence of intervals, forming perceived groups in relationship to other nearby notes and also in relationship to other nearby perceived-groups. Each group is perceived to have some tonal center, although different listeners may perceive different ones.

"Sequences are patterns of modulation which are usually governed by diatonic, chromatic or symmetrical organization. If the intervals of a sequence are altered to accommodate the prevailing scale, mode or harmony, we refer to it as diatonic. If the intervals are absolute, the sequence is chromatic. Sequences are an effective compositional device; everyone recognizes them, even if subconsciously." "Any phrase you will encounter will have a certain amount of familiarity."

I keep reading stuff like this over and over (full disclosure: I'm a professional computer-geek... I sorta get-off sometimes on cerebral things like this...) because it almost seems to me like a guidepost in the dark. He seems to be pointing to a way of looking at things in which "the melody" and "the accompaniment" are designed and working together, not as "first one thing and then the other." He also seems to be suggesting a way of looking at a series of notes, not just as "a series of notes," but as "a series of leaps, or intervals" between successive notes ... usually taking place in scales and modes that also have an established structure of intervals.

"May I leave the room, please? My brain is full."

[James Anderson]

IM A LEFT HANDED PERSON I THINK THIS IS THE REASON I CAN COMPOSE IT FOR ME IS SOMETHING I DONT CONTROL I JUST HAVE MUSICAL THOUGHTS AND I JUST HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM IT USUALLY COMES TO ME AS AW HOLE MELODY CHORDS AND LYRICS THE ONLY THING I DONT HAVE IS A NEAD FOR WORKING OUT TIMEING ITS ALL PRECONCIEVED MELLODYS WHICH I GET A MUSIC TEACHER TO WORCK OUT FOR ME

[docmattdoc]

I always come up with the melody after I finish the rough draft of the lyrics to my songs and have the basic chords. does anyone else do this?

[TapperMike]

Boy this one is getting bumped up. I tried for many years to undo the harmony first structure we all know and love. I really tried to get that Stevie Wonder/ Paul McCartney thing where they would sort thru the melody and attach the harmony to it later. Tried and failed.

Then there was a period where I was all about Charlie Parker http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Parker I'd try to mix things up a little but if I didn't here chord tones prominent in the melody it wasn't moving. I forgot everything I'd ever learned about the blues and rock, I was trying way to hard to be the next Steely Dan. There's more theory and theory thrown overboard in your average SD song then doans has pills.

These days I can start with a melody but by the time I play my first note I've already established a key and the chord it will fit behind in my head.

[nickamandote]

melody makes the song. too bad it lacks so much these days. i think melody is the most important part of the song. I usually start around a melody (usually a chorus based around an idea or some words), however if my melody is not good enough then I usually quit developing the song.

Edited September 24, 2012 by nickamandote