[john]

hi

How much do you vary your song themes? Boy being meets girl being, beneath a silvery moon which then suddenly explodes for no adequately explored reason? (name that quote)

Do you use awareness of types of themes to help guide your songwriting direction and variety or sameness?

It's an underestimated way to help kick-start a song.

Cheers

John

[FinnArild]

I think my lyrics tend to have rather varied - but in the later years I shy away from love lyrics, mostly because it has been so thoroughly done through the years that I feel there is very little new I could bring to it. And I do want and try to be original. I often get lyrics/story/concept ideas late at night before I go to sleep. I used to have a book beside my bed that I scribbled stuff into, now I use the audio recorder on my mobile phone.

For me, lyrics are real hard work and I very often get very good help from my wife to finish stuff.

[Retrosaurus Rex]

The quote has to be from the Hitch-hiker's Guide, but it's been while since I read it, so I can't remember which part....

I think having a theme in mind helps keep a lyric on track, whether you're one of those people who has a lot of ideas you want to put into a song, or (like me), who might have a good idea to start, but need to generate more material to bring it home. When I say theme, I mean a pretty specific idea which you could probably state in one concise sentence. Even within "love songs" there are many specific themes you could focus on: you're crazy, but I love you; I love you, but you drive me crazy; I love you, but your cousin makes me drool... there might be more...

[McnaughtonPark]

I don't choose to write in one specific theme. I get so many ideas, the choice is realy "which one could be developed now?" Some ideas take longer to stew than others.

I did notice I had a tendancy to write in a negative or dark theme and have tried to turn that around. I think I hear more positive themes in music by far, so thought it might be better to write in that direction.

[TaoMannaDon]

The lyric needs:
1. a purpose - why am I writing this
2. a subject - what is this lyric about
3. a scope - what gets included or excluded
4. a style - is this a story about something that happened or just about a feeling or about something totally mysterious
5. a tone - is it positive, negative, hopeful, mellow, dark, filled with angst or anger
6. a message - what can the listener learn

You can think about all of this beforehand or you can sit down and begin to type words and see what happens. You can do like I used to do and pick up the guitar and play through chord sequences uttering nonsense phrases until something good comes out. The thing that works for you right now is what you should do. Don't give up what works. But there is a reason why disciplined, schooled people are productive. They've learned the techniques and don't mind "working" at something they love to do.

We might quibble over terminology or what's important but the main thing is:

Keep writing,
Don

[Retrosaurus Rex]

TaoMannaDon, on 15 January 2010 - 06:26 PM, said:

The lyric needs:
1. a purpose - why am I writing this
2. a subject - what is this lyric about
3. a scope - what gets included or excluded
4. a style - is this a story about something that happened or just about a feeling or about something totally mysterious
5. a tone - is it positive, negative, hopeful, mellow, dark, filled with angst or anger
6. a message - what can the listener learn

You can think about all of this beforehand or you can sit down and begin to type words and see what happens. You can do like I used to do and pick up the guitar and play through chord sequences uttering nonsense phrases until something good comes out. The thing that works for you right now is what you should do. Don't give up what works. But there is a reason why disciplined, schooled people are productive. They've learned the techniques and don't mind "working" at something they love to do.

We might quibble over terminology or what's important but the main thing is:

Keep writing,
Don

I like this checklist, I think it could be really helpful, especially when re-writing, for finding the focus of a lyric...

[roxhythe]

Good points, all. Sideline thought: "I love you, but your cousin makes me drool" sounds like a line that needs a song to go with it.

Joe

[TaoMannaDon]

roxhythe, on 09 February 2010 - 01:28 AM, said:

Good points, all. Sideline thought: "I love you, but your cousin makes me drool" sounds like a line that needs a song to go with it.

Joe

And this could be the next line of that song:

I love you
But your cousin makes me drool
Perhaps the three of us could spent some time together

[john]

[tunesmithth]

.........speakin' of cousins. ......have any of you guys ever heard a song by Steely Dan called "Cousin Dupree"? It's a riot! I'm thinking tht it's just a couple years old....the first time I heard it was on a DVD of "Two Against Nature" that I got a few years back.

[Hyardacil]

I don't really think of themes as such very much. I don't have this moment where I go: "Now I am going to write about that!" Rather I let ideas slowly filter through my mind. I can have one idea floating around for years, before I try to make anything coherent out of it. This helps them mature and for me to find more and more nuances it has to already relating themes and flows of thought that have existed in the real world. I was reading a summary of the history of modern philosophy today and found out - for example - that one of the ideas I've been having resembles some bits of Schopenhauer's philosophy.

Anyways...

I guess I like the freedom. I like having unused ideas around. And generally the things that really stay with me filter through with time - thus making sure (or at least a bit more sure) that the thing I am going to write is going to be about something more than a one-day fancy.

Of course there are cons to this type of approach as well. I don't get as much practice in actually writing lines of poetry down as I should. I guess I shall try to mend that fault soon.

Generally speaking you should write about things that are relative to YOU and you only. You have no way of knowing what people would like to hear... in fact I think even THEY don't know it. It's just you on your own and your head (hopefully) filled with a big abstract mess that can be turned into something coherent.

[undersnow]

Yeah, my song subjects tend to be varied with out me having to worry about it, however every once in a while I try to challenge myself to write about something out of my norm. Although, I also hate love songs because of how over done they are so I try to avoid writing them. Also I find that a lot of times just one song can be about a lot of things, not in a disorganized way, it all sounds as if its about the same thing, no one would know if I told them. Like if I'm writing about for instance a fear of change, but on that day I also happen to be mad at someone, I'll just slip in a line or two that are about my feelings towards that person. Haha, sorry for the rambling, don't know if that quite made sense.

[Mazrocon]

I think for the most part my song subjects and themes are pretty varied. Though sometimes when I have a good idea it can sometimes leak out in a few different songs unintentional. Though I do think there are a ton of cliche love songs I don't think writing them are over done. To me that's like saying writing songs at all is over done. It's a very common theme and a part of everyday life. Though I only like to write them if I have a unique (or just good) idea for it. I think someone can always bring something new to the table.

Hardly any of my lyrics are from personal experience, whether or not it has anything to do with you I think it's a good habit to make the reader feel like there in your shoes.

~TIMOTHY~

This post has been edited by Mazrocon: 18 July 2010 - 10:15 PM

[MikeRobinson]

TaoMannaDon, on 09 February 2010 - 07:32 AM, said:

And this could be the next line of that song:

I love you
But your cousin makes me drool
Perhaps the three of us could spent some time together

I'm in love with you, honeybuns,
(I'd surely tell you if I'm not)
But the way your cousin drools
Really makes me hot!

[tunesmithth]

This latest discussion reminds me of a song. Have any of you guys ever heard a tune by Steely Dan called "Cousin Dupree"? Cool tune though.....1st time I heard it was on the DVD of Two Against Nature a couple of years ago

Tom

[undersnow]

Good point about the love songs, I suppose I just hate the kind of love songs where the lyrics are very blatant, and theres absolutely no ambiguity. You know what I mean, I shouldn't have insinuated that I hate all love songs, just the kind where it's obvious that it is a love song. I rarely step outside my own personal experience when writing, but I really wish I could more often because I stay very content with my lyrics when I write songs that way!