Lyrics? Melody? Which One First?

[Red]

I've been struggling with my songwriting lately, maybe I'm just not at all inspired, I don't know, but I'm having trouble coming up with melodies nowadays, and I couldn't really fit them into the lyrics. Even the lyrics seem off. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Anybody out there who could give advice?

 

For example, is it easier to create the melody first then lyrics or the other way around? Or it's up to me whether which one to compose first?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Red

[JLiRD808]

BTW - for me, it's always melody first! Once I know how the melody will move, I also know:

- approximately how many lines I'll have room for in each section

- approximately how many syllables per line will fit comfortably, so I able to do a rough sketch of the overall meter per section

- roughly, how much text (lyric) I'll have to work with in developing my message or story

Good question!...

Totally agree...great question!

I had/have a "habit" of listening to an instrumental that someone or myself created and coming up with a melody first. One reason was, though, was that I was trying to teach myself how to sing too. The content wasn't very important so I just made up lyrics on the spot. But yes the melodies definitely came out first. I even recorded a bunch of them and would try to edit the vocals so the song made sense....it wasnt easy, took a lot of time, and in the end, the lyrics still wouldn't always make sense

So lately, I've been really trying to turn those melodies into lyrics and I gotta say, sometimes it comes out easy and sometimes its tuff. But when u can match a melody in ur head with a message "in ur heart" (I know it sounds cheesy) then that is TOTAL VICTORY...the best feeling in songwriting I believe.

What was great about the freestyling (and even recording) period was that a few lines would often kinda "pop-out" at me and I'd realize that I really wanted to keep them. So then I would pretty much just wrap a whole song/story around those one or two lines. That line could have been in the 2nd verse or anywhere...but I would draw from its inspiration and elaborate on it. Sometimes it just takes one line....

However, I'm also looking fwd to starting the other way around....instead of fitting lyrics to a melody, come up with a message and then give it a melody. We'll see how it goes.

Red---what's ur typical songwriting routine?

Edited December 12, 2011 by JLiRD808

[Sotos]

I don't know, I guess it's on the person, I always think of both together...

[Just1L]

I also write the melody first, lyrics second. I've actually done both ways and found the flow of it all was better with melody first. Although, that's probably why I'm an amateur and not a professional! One of my favorite parts of that method has been described above. I enjoy having the music going and just "freestyling" lyrics and usually, something does pop out that I want to keep in there.

I'm hoping not to offend here but my opinion is if you're trying to write a hit song, the melody is more important. Here's my thoughts on why.

How many times do you hear a new song on the radio, mtv, etc... and have the words to read along to? For me, I never do for a new song. When I'm driving, working, at a bar or anywhere and I hear a new song, it's the melody that hooks me. Not to say that while I'm listening I don't try to understand the lyrics and try to figure them out. Later on in the day, or next day, I'll get to humming or singing in my head that song I heard that really stuck out. I don't usually remember the words, and sometimes the melody isn't exactly right, but it's the melody that has me humming. I, as most of you, have read hundreds upon hundreds of lyrics on sites like this that, to me anyways, are better than a lot of the hit songs I've heard. But even the greatest lyrics, without a great melody aren't going to get too far.

In the end, the best songs out there are the ones that have the whole package, great lyrics, great melody, great voice, etc... Top to bottom it's the full package. But, there will be a hit song that has so-so lyrics and great melody, before one that has great lyrics but a poor melody. Consider Smoke on the Water. I love that song and have for over 20 years. Funny thing is, I just learned what it was about a month ago on a VH1 Classic show. I never had any idea what it was about but it always flowed together great, sounded good, and was fun to sing and play on guitar. Not to say I hadn't enjoyed the lyrics just never understood them. I guess that brings up a new question. What defines "good/great" lyrics? Think I'll have to start a new topic for that one!

Edited December 15, 2011 by just1l

[LilOrange]

I write melody first, then lyrics. It's is easier for me to fit the lyrics into the music, then vice versa. But, in the last couple of years, my melodies became just so usual....I can't seem to come up with something original...

[Superman]

Just 1, you hit it right on the head, for me.

How many songs out there, that you've known for even years that if you were quizzed on, you wouldn't know for sure what the song is even about? Which answers the question which is more important (if there has to be one) the lyrics or the melody?

Take James Blunt's 'You're Beautiful' for example. I just love the melody, but truthfully, any one of the songwriters on this website could create better lyrics than that... I know I could. But guess what? That song is on my iPod ( don't tell anyone,lol). because it sounds pretty.

However, to me tune and lyrics when I'm writing a song are equally important.

Anyway, back to the topic...

When I first started writing songs I didn't play an instrument. I would write essentially poems in song structure. That was very good for me because I didn't have a pretty tune or a catchy beat or anything else getting in the way, so all of my efforts went into the lyric. That was good education for me at the time (despite the silly teeny bopper subjects... I was a sensitive young man, lol!)however, when I had picked up the guitar and started writing with it, I found I had one hell of a time putting my words to new music. That's when I learned what a metronome was, lol. The worst thing for me was to sacrifice some of my 'baby' for the sake of the tune. All of those songs today are just poems, or well thought-out ideas for songs.

Almost every time I write a song, it starts with a tune. It'll usually pop into my head. Since I'm usually at work, I'll try to find a private place and hum a few lines into my microphone on my iphone so I don't lose it. Most times I will sing the song with words I've pulled out of nowhere( I call them filler words). That tells me how many syllables I need in each line if i go tgat far, and I basically have my song structure layed out... All ahead of time using nonsensical words. Then when I have my guitar, I find out what key I'm in, and play usually just three or four chords over and over and over and sometimes over and over and over again. The music will then tell me what the song is will be.

Other times I'll get a really unique idea and build the lyrics and the melody together.

I won't ever write lyrics first (anymore). It's either tune first, or both together for me. It helps the song evolve better I think, if you can work them both together.

[Superman]

Nice.

[Red]

Red---what's ur typical songwriting routine?

well, the melody comes first most of the time.. Sometimes the lyrics but whenever that happens I usually end up composing just the lyrics. Sometimes it would come simultaneously but then I usually forget after 10 seconds what it sounded like. Whenever I try to record the idea after I just sing it differently, you know? Anyway, not busy at school at the moment so I'd definitely try writing a few lines... Don't want to get rusty at songwriting...

totally agree with just1 about some songs out there.. nice tunes but flat lyrics. Of course we should aim for the whole package songs, right!

[LilOrange]

My hands play the guitar while my voice sings whatever words happen to wash ashore from the stream of consciousness. "I" try to stay out of the way. That's always the first chapter for me - my Book of Genesis.

David

Very well said.

[adf]

Lyrics first. That's always the way for me, but that's probably because I'm a lyricist first, musician second. My command of language is greater than my command of music. If I could play any instrument really well, maybe I'd do things differently.

Andy

[nickamandote]

melody first, and then a lot of re-write on lyrics

[DonnaMarilyn]

Lyrics first. Always. I don't play an instrument. However, I often find that as I'm writing (or revising) a lyric, a distinct head melody emerges. I use this as a vocal guide, mainly to indicate phrasing, but my co-writer sometimes uses it as the main melody.

Composers occasionally ask me to write lyrics for their music. If the piece has a strong, well-defined melody, I can usually do this. It's helpful too if the composer also has a story theme. If he doesn't, I simply go with the feel of the piece, and the emotion that it elicits. A really compelling piece of music will generally conjure up a story in my imagination. Sometimes, though, the Muse simply won't budge.

Donna

[HeySJ]

Interesting question! When I started writing music, I would always write the lyrics first and then the melody. After I picked up an instrument, I found myself writing the melody before the lyrics. Now, once in a while I'll write lyrics first, but usually it's the melody.

[gradual]

It's been about a year since the last time I wrote a new song, so I'll try my best tor remember how I do it.

In recent years, I've gotten into the habit of writing lyrics first, usually starting with a title, and building the concept of the song around it. I always keep my trusty thesaurus and rhyming dictionary at hand. I don't necessarily use this method because it's easier, but because I've simply grown fond of doing it that way. It allows me to imagine the possibilities of what the music could be. I even speak the words in rhythm, experimenting with their meter to see if they flow. Kinda like rapping, I guess...lol. It's fun.

Then by the time I sit down at an instrument, I already kind of have an idea of what the musical structure will be. So at this point, I'll just try different chord progressions, which suggest to me melodic ideas. I'm not one for whom melodies simply pop into my head (if they do, I don't trust that they're mine), so the melody will almost always go through quite a few revisions before I'm satisfied. Sometimes, I may adjust the lyrics to fit the melody, or vice versa.

I think it all depends on what your strengths are. Even though I consider myself primarily a music guy, I've always been fairly competent at writing lyrics, and have never found it too difficult. So the lyrics first method works for me. But if you've always struggled with writing lyrics, it can help to have the structure of a pre-existing melody to guide you along...I've done it that way too.

Some songwriters have said that music and lyrics come to them simultaneously...I admit that generally doesn't happen for me, but it's just another example of a method that can work for some people.

Edited November 25, 2012 by gradual

[BigBubbaBrown]

Generally melody first. I was talking to my late mentor about songwriting when I was about 15 and mentioned that I could write melodies but when I sit down to write lyrics nothing ever turns up. He said you have to have the melody first so you'll know how the lyrics will fit so once you have the melody you're halfway there.

On the other hand Phil Collins wrote the melody and lyrics for In the Air Tonight at the same time. Got a pattern going on the CR-78, started playing chords, and sang whatever came into his head. Peter Gabriel uses a hybrid method. Starts singing gibberish (which he calls "Gabrielese") to get the melody down then goes back and adds lyrics. Sometimes the gibberish will be the final lyrics (ex. Across the River)

Basically there are no hard and fast rules. For one song the lyrics may dictate the melody. For another the melody might dictate the lyrics. If you're having trouble writing lyrical pieces it might help to take a break and write instrumentals.

[JLiRD808]

I usually start with watching television first. After that, I look at my notepad and maybe hum a few notes, fiddling with my pen (sometimes chewing on it.....ew). Then I'll go to the fridge and stare into it for a good 3-4 minutes, knowing already that there isn't much in there to satisfy a craving (though there is a slight chance that something I didn't notice before will catch my eye). Then I go to the cupboards and scan some more, here I will usually find chips, cookies, popcorn, sometimes even some spicy beef jerky.

Then I head back to the living room/studio and turn the tv back on. If I cant find something good on within a few minutes, I'll check email. By this point, I would have to have some napkins handy to keep me from spreading the salt/grease on my remote and laptop. If there is a pillow nearby on the couch I may decide to lay down for a few minutes, vowing not to actually fall asleep though.

1.5 hrs later I awake and will finally reach for a guitar. Then I will start to sing something....a melody will come out, but no SET words. Sometimes I use an app on my iphone to record interesting melodies/off-hand lyrics. Then I'll jot down a few lines and set that piece of paper to the side for 6 months.

<Repeat>

LOL.....

[JgIsles]

Chord progression first. I generally write a chord progression and then shamble around the house mutter-singing like a deranged lunatic. Somewhere out of that mutter-singing, a melody and at least some of the lyrics emerge simultaneously. Then I can sit down and edit some more sense into it.

[Wil]

Man! It really just depends. Sometimes I get a melody and add lyrics that fit its mood, but sometimes its the other way around. Sometimes they come at the same time. I would say that most often I know what I want to write about, so I attempt to get a fitting tune first.

[Bang1]

I usually write my lyrics and humm the melody. . Helps gives me the idea of the sound I want .

[Rudi]

ideally it should be both first. Its only happened a couple of times though.

It alway used to be the melody first, then I got in a rut (same rhyming patterns).

Then I tried lyrics first, and that gave me hugh challenges with melodies.

Now I just write lyrics whenever I can (in norebooks) and when I get tune ideas I re-read the notebooks. One of these days its all going to come together & work properly.