Songstuff Songwriting Workshops... Interested?

[john]

Hi Gang

 

I've been discussing with staff and a few other members about the possibility of starting some regular songwriting workshops.

 

I have included a poll to try and break down levels of interest.

 

We might do lyrics only workshops, music only workshops and or workshops looking at creating both lyrics and music. Workshops details will vary depending on experience level.

 

The benginner workshop is likely to cover many aspects from song form to rhyme, meter, the nature of hooks (there are many kinds, not just lyrics hooks), melody, chord progressions and some may have guest speakers. Exact content will depend on the focus of individual workshops.

 

Intermmediate and advanced workshops will probably have more emphasis on guest speakers, Q&A and writer to writer interaction, collaboration and mutual critique.

 

If there are topics you would like to see covered in songwriting workshops, please tell us about them! Please give an indication of your experience level in your posts as that will help us to target content to specific workshops.

 

Once we get an idea of levels of interest we can sort out the content for specific workshops.

 

Thank you in advance for your input!

 

Cheers

 

John

[Thrashimation]

Will these be free? 

 

Anyway, I've been writing poetry for years and years. In fact, one of my poems was used for a national advertising campaign. So, I'll put myself in the advanced camp

 

Thrashimation, the YouTube channel and business my partner and I am starting, does comedic music. Do you think you could make a workshop for comedy song writing? I think some of the people on here should try to be less serious with their lyrical content

[john]

Will these be free? 

Probably, but not necessarily. It might depend on whether individual guests charge me. I should point out that the site is free to you, but it most definitely isn't free for me (I pay the bills out my own pocket and I am far from rich), nor is it free for the rest of the staff who put their time and effort into making the entire site happen, or the other volunteers who contribute in many ways to Songstuff. I am sure you ask "will these be free?" with the best of intention, but sometimes it is worth reminding people that someone always pays.

Anyway, I've been writing poetry for years and years. In fact, one of my poems was used for a national advertising campaign. So, I'll put myself in the advanced camp

 

Thrashimation, the YouTube channel and business my partner and I am starting, does comedic music. Do you think you could make a workshop for comedy song writing? I think some of the people on here should try to be less serious with their lyrical content

There are differences between song lyrics and poems. Lyricists are not poets, and vice versa. I have known many experienced poets who have much to learn about being a lyricist, though I grant you many skills and concepts are transferable and they may find writing for some genres fairly straight forward. The mere fact that lyrics are intended to be only part of the finished piece, that they create a song only by being in combination with music, complicates the whole picture. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts and all that. I point this out to make sure that you are familiar with song forms, lyrical hooks And other song mechanisms. Songs are most definitely not poetry, though some songs are poetic in nature, many are not. I am sure you are very familiar with meter and the many different types of rhyme as they are the same essential concepts as poetry. If you are as familiar with the specifics of the requirements of songs, and the nuance of combination with music (even from the perspective of being a lyricist) great, but I would rather highlight these differences at a stage that you can change what workshops you take part in if necessary.

[john]

Thanks for highlighting comedy lyrics. Comedy lyrics, or more subtle uses of humour, have been mentioned as being included in workshops, but as yet nothing is settled. It as yet a blank canvas with lots of ideas. What we do definitely need to know is desire and need for the subjects of workshops.

[john]

Oh, and can you please vote in the poll? Every vote will count

[Thrashimation]

Probably, but not necessarily. It might depend on whether individual guests charge me. I should point out that the site is free to you, but it most definitely isn't free for me (I pay the bills out my own pocket and I am far from rich), nor is it free for the rest of the staff who put their time and effort into making the entire site happen, or the other volunteers who contribute in many ways to Songstuff. I am sure you ask "will these be free?" with the best of intention, but sometimes it is worth reminding people that someone always pays.

There are differences between song lyrics and poems. Lyricists are not poets, and vice versa. I have known many experienced poets who have much to learn about being a lyricist, though I grant you many skills and concepts are transferable and they may find writing for some genres fairly straight forward. The mere fact that lyrics are intended to be only part of the finished piece, that they create a song only by being in combination with music, complicates the whole picture. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts and all that. I point this out to make sure that you are familiar with song forms, lyrical hooks And other song mechanisms. Songs are most definitely not poetry, though some songs are poetic in nature, many are not. I am sure you are very familiar with meter and the many different types of rhyme as they are the same essential concepts as poetry. If you are as familiar with the specifics of the requirements of songs, and the nuance of combination with music (even from the perspective of being a lyricist) great, but I would rather highlight these differences at a stage that you can change what workshops you take part in if necessary.

 

I know there are differences, but I assure you, I've bridged the gap I guess you don't know that yet, as I haven't actually submitted any lyrics for review (I don't want to give them away yet. Once you've heard a joke, it isn't as good the second time ). Still, I wouldn't mind being a part of some of these workshops.

Thanks for highlighting comedy lyrics. Comedy lyrics, or more subtle uses of humour, have been mentioned as being included in workshops, but as yet nothing is settled. It as yet a blank canvas with lots of ideas. What we do definitely need to know is desire and need for the subjects of workshops.

 

I'd be interested in comedy lyrics for sure, but I have years or experience writing and selling parodies and now with original comedic music. I don't plan on using subtle humor

Oh, and can you please vote in the poll? Every vote will count

Done

[Lisa Gates]

Hey, Thrashimation! I have to check out your Youtube channel. Somehow, I wrote a comedy song (sooooo NOT like me!) and wondered what in the world I would ever do with it...I never realized there was a call for it. Live and learn!

John, I voted too!

[Mahesh]

I voted too

[JDHarris]

I have written poems for years also.  Some I have rewritten into lyrics like Jingle Bells Are Ringing,    I am currently working on two comedic lyrics.  One is quite long and reads more like a story.  I would like some input on how to shorten it and still keep the message.   

 

Jan

[john]

Thanks guys. What's amazing me so far is that NO beginners have voted! I thought they would be the largest group. Go figure...

[JDHarris]

I tried to vote, but I was locked out.  Was I too late?

jan

[john]

In this poll? Noooo, if you can post to the topic you should be able to vote. What steps are you going through to vote? What exact message do you gt when you try to vote?

[Joe]

Hi John:

 

Great idea !  I personally found the material already on the site (lyric writing tips/discussions) to be really helpful to me personally and can only guess that additional course material or information would likewise be well received.  Thanks for bringing it up.

 

Joe

[JDHarris]

I clicked on the links for both the monthly song, as well the lyric contest that said to vote now.  I got to the right places but their was an icon saying the site was locked.  I also submitted my protest song, but did not see it in the list.  Don't know where I sent that. 

 

I'll try again next time, if I was too late.  Thanks. 

[john]

Ah ok, different poll. I haven't checked the lyrics poll but the voting in the Song contest was extended to August 5 so the voting should be open

[Thrashimation]

Hey, Thrashimation! I have to check out your Youtube channel. Somehow, I wrote a comedy song (sooooo NOT like me!) and wondered what in the world I would ever do with it...I never realized there was a call for it. Live and learn!

John, I voted too!

I'm excited that you're interested, and good luck with the song! Thrashimation is launching this September! I'll tag you here when we launch

[Lisa Gates]

I'm excited that you're interested, and good luck with the song! Thrashimation is launching this September! I'll tag you here when we launch

Perfect! that's right around the corner!

[Lisa Gates]

I think the best workshop you could offer a non-musician lyricist, and the best workshop they could take, would be a workshop for beginning guitar and/or beginning piano for songwriting - focusing on chords and chord progressions in various song formats.  It amazes me how many non-musician lyricists there are willing to devote years of their lives (and sometimes their money) to develop their lyric writing in a context essentially divorced from music, yet will not make a real sustained effort to learn to play an instrument to attain at least a basic level of proficiency with chords in order to become much better versed in the other half of songwriting. Learning to hack your way playing chords on keyboard is not that hard, and developing an ear for chord progressions would be invaluable to their "songwriting."  "

"Well Said, Well Spoken" (a quote from one of my favorite stupid movies...)

I am such a lyricist...but I do try to sing my lyrics...still not quite the same.

thanks HoboSage!

[Lisa Gates]

Thanks, Lisa.  I just want to clarify that I don't blame anyone for being intimidated at the prospect of learning how to play a musical instrument from square one, or for not being able to stay at it if the teaching model follows a traditional approach.  But, I keep thinking that if the teaching model didn't concern itself with technique or scales or theory or sight reading or anything else other than just learning chords, that would be a lot less intimidating and much easier to learn, and that knowledge of chords and familiarity playing them would be an invaluable tool in writing songs, even if it won't make you a good player.  I hear you Lisa, and I feel your pain.    You can write the words and you can sing them with a melody divorced from other instruments.  Other non-musician lyricists can perhaps imagine the vocal melody, even if they can't sing.  But, what you all could really use are actual chord progressions structured in a song-type format for a real or imagined vocal melody of your words to be put to.  Now, we're talkin' full-blown songwriting!  

Well, I know you better than that! I never thought you would blame someone for being intimidated by such a huge endeavour of learning an instrument. I think you and I have talked about my "laziness" or frustration of not practising what I really want to learn because it seems so overwhelming. I actually know 5 whole chords on the guitar! but they never support the melodies in my head soooo I just gave up... I am lucky to have a voice that usually is on key (no comments from the "peanut gallery please) I want to know the basics of guitar chords enough to write the melodies in my head so that is why I agreed whole heartedly with your suggestion. Thanks! 

[Tally]

I am a singer songwriter, ex semi pro who can also play a little guitar. I have a very wide scope in music inc. some clasical,.. but I love doing vocal harmonies, and have songs on YouTube,..  https://www.youtube.com/my_videos?o=U

 

This is a great idea to split into 3 groups,.. each group can share ideas.!

 

Among my fav's are... 'The Eagles'--'Pink Floyd'--'Crosby Stills Nash Young'--'Smokey'--'America'--'James Taylor'----'Supertramp'--....and others.!

 

I would like someone to send me an mp3/wav somg so I can add harmonies.!

 

Tally (Paul Robson)