Studio Headphone Vs Monitor

[Baron Von Vox]

Now i know that monitors are best however how much difference would it make? I did some research and I'm conflicted as in some music forums they say studio headsets are great to use while others say to never use them or only use them along with your studio monitors. 

 

So What I'm asking is, Can you use studio headphones to mix as well or close to as well as studio monitors (krk headset vs krk monitors)?

 

 

[Baron Von Vox]

I'm just glad you let me know this so i don't make that mistake. 

[MonoStone]

The thing is... isn't a very good pair of headphones better than some not so good speakers? Since you're making the choice, I guess you have a budget, and it's likely that a quality pair of headphones costs the same or less than some low quality speakers?

 

Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't got high quality sets of either

 

Budget allowing... I think you need both.

 

I suppose you also have to balance against all the other equipment you use for recording/making the sound.

 

It's an interesting topic to me. I've been getting by with some really cheapo stuff. But also I find that I'm running around between listening in the car, the crappy old hi fi in the living room, my phone, then back to the headphones and the speakers plugged into my comp. Sounds different on each so it's like juggling til it sounds sort of right on all when compared to something from my record collection.... I want some great monitors, but I don't know if you can trust one set anyway, and unless they're really top end maybe it could be misleading?

[Baron Von Vox]

That's a  good point about the good headset vs low end monitors.

 

I was thinking about buying one KRK and then buying another later on but the problem with that is i couldn't really start mixing until i had both anyways.

[Baron Von Vox]

I think subconsciously I'm waiting for a deal to pop up so it's what i will do is just wait and see. All this research has fried my brain ;x

[Dave Bradley]

This is an interesting quote from SOS exactly 10 years ago:

 

"The first thing to say is that, generally, headphone monitoring is almost always only a 'second best' option. The vast majority of recorded sound is intended for listening via loudspeakers and it is important to recognise this fact."

 

Hmm...I think things have changed somewhat, I reckon the vast majority of music is now listened to on mobile devices whether with headphones or on the tiny speaker on a phone or tablet...

 

Does this now change the perception of whether headphone mixing or speaker mixing is best I wonder...

[Rudi]

I like to use monitors mainly, and I wish I had bought bigger ones (they are light on bass). When mixing I now use both NFMs & h-phones.

[Nick Festari]

Hi guys! I'm really new on these forums. Wow! Good Topic! Mixing with headphones is not good, but they can come to help you during the mix down or better when it's almost at the end. I have a home/project studio with 3 couple of monitors for references: old Yamaha NS10 Studio and a couple of Avantone with DIRAC correction software. For the mixes down I use 2 Genelec 8020B nearfield monitors. At the end or the work i compare the sound with monitors and headphones... I have Beyerdynamic DT770 PRO that I use also for mastering session. Think they are one of the best headphones solution for their frequency response.

Said that, I couldn't mix down only with headphones!

[ALOPRODUCTIONZ]

mixing using reference headphones and monitors will give me two different sounding mixes. i prefer monitors, altho i am very noobish when it comes to  mixing. the majority of my songs are unmixed (properly) 

Best advice iv been given about this question, is to use headphones for productions, and monitors for mixing. iv also been warned not to mix with headphones for long periods of time, because you can damage your hearing 

 

alo

[john]

It is important to understand the issues and trade offs.

 

For example, frequency response and dynamics, spill (important when it comes to sharing your "live room" and "control room", as most home studios are combined with a budget limiting gear available), and the rarely mentioned topic of ear fatigue.

 

Frequency response. The bass response of headphones is quite different to that of speakers. In fact exactly how they get your ear to hear bass is entirely different. This means that using headphones (worse - ear bud! Noooooo.....) can really color your mix... It'd skew the frequency volumes.

 

Dynamics, yet again we also feel bass, particularly sub-bass. Headphones either omit sub-bass or reconstruct it using harmonic frequencies to fake it inside your ear. Bass frequencies (particularly sub-bass have long wavelengths, which even monitors cannot reproduce exactly, but they are a hell of a lot closer than what headphone speakers can achieve.

 

Use headphones for a rough mix, a detailed idea of stereo image, but not final mixes. Better if you use headphones (or "cans" as they are also known) for monitoring during recording rather than mixing and only to check minimal aspects of the mix.

 

when you record mix and perform in the same space, spill is very important. Specifically applied to cans it is when the sound coming from headphones "spills" from just your ear hearing it, to being picked up by the microphone. Apart from a less likely "feedback loop" it can cause havoc come mix time. Imagine the general early recording mix spilling on the vocal track, especially the snare. You want to have the vocals out front but in doing so now it boosts the snare sound whenever the vocal track is not muted. Worse if you decide to remove the drums in one section during mix, only now you can't remove it because the drums can also be heard on the vocal track... And that is just one scenario using one instrument spilling.

 

To combat this cans come in 3 varieties: open back, closed back and semi-closed back.

 

Closed back cans cut spill to the minimum, BUT they color the mix more by skewing the frequency response of the headphone speaker, meaning you hear something that is far from a true representation of the frequencies in the music... Or at least significantly different. For this reason closed back cans are best suited to being word by the musician who is being recorded. They do not care about such details of frequencies but you want to minimise spill.

 

Conversely open back cans minimise coloration of sound, but have a lot of spill, and I mean a lot. This type of can is best suited to mix and mastering engineers who have a dedicated control room, with the musician being recorded in another room (only an issue for mic-ed sources)

 

Semi-closed cans are a halfway house. They have significant spill, but less than open cans, and the color the sound, but less than closed back cans.

 

Ear fatigue. Closed back cans are often avoided by mix engineers, even when they are in the same room as the source because of ear fatigue. Ear fatigue is a phenomena where your brains perception of sound is interfered with... Not because it is bored, but because of the mechanics of the inner ear. Without going into detail here, it is enough to know that after a while of working with sound what you hear actually changes... Which skews mixes lots!

 

The closer the speaker, the sooner ear fatigue kicks in and the worse it will be. Worse again, closed back cans make the problem even worse. Much worse than open back cans. Pro engineers cannot afford to screw up mixes, or to have ongoing "tired" ears. Do not underestimate how much it will screw up your mixes!

 

On a budget, monitors are essential to good mixes, especially during long sessions.

 

Equally at least one pair of closed cans is essential. They do not need to be brilliant in any other way than reducing spill... So check that. Get a friend to try them to get an idea of suitability by seeing how much spill there is.

 

However,, a pair of open back cans is really useful if you record and mix loads, and a good pair of semi-closed can be a useful compromise if you can only afford one decent pair for the engineer. If you record yourself mostly, get a pair of closed and a pair of open... Ideally all 3 options are useful.

 

I know, you want to hear: do this. You also want to hear it is just one purchase.... And initially it might be. But your ears are essential tools, AND you don't want to have crap mixes and wonder why (having read this of course that will not be the case  ), so plan at least to purchase the missing bits asap, and know the initial trade offs if you limit to buying just monitors and one pair of mixer cans (crap old cans for anyone else!). Try very hard not to work with only cans. It sucks. It is impossible to work with only monitors!

[john]

I suppose I could when I get a little time. I had intended (years ago) on writing a series on studio design, gear selection, acoustics and psychoacoustics, soundproofing etc, with info about doing it all on a budget too. Unfortunately my time on Songstuff got swallowed by server management and site infrastructure. I have more or less sorted all of that now and I am planning to get back to my own music and writing a screed of content for the site. We'll see how realistic my hopes are! Lol

[Stova007]

Recently, I've been using headphones only for my mixes and I feel more comfortable with my mixes now, as opposed to using my monitors. I'm in an untreated 1 bedroom apt so the monitors really wouldn't do much good, but I've also taken the time to really get a feel for my headphones. I also do playback on 4-5 different systems to see what jumps out at me mix-wise. To each his own, I guess.

 

If and when I upgrade to a true studio environment, I'll bring back the monitors and use the headphones along with them

[starise]

I'll second the opinion that using only headphones isn't the best approach. Ear fatigue sets in fast for me over longer mixes. Ear fatigue also causes your ears frequency perceptions to change. No matter how comfortable headphones are initially they tend to get uncomfortable over long periods of time. This is kinda gross, but I've wiped sweat from around my ears when tracking acoustic instruments. They get hot after awhile, like ear muffs.

 

 

Almost without exception a mix that sounds good on decent monitors sounds good on headphones and not usually the other  the other way around for me. 

 

Spacial effects like reverbs and delays don't seem anywhere near the same on headphones compared to monitors.

 

Finding the things wanting and compensating is probably one of the single largest things that can improve a mix. If my headphones have a slight 500hz bump I'll need to recognize that when I'm mixing so my mix isn't hyped in that place.

The frequency response chart that comes with your headphones can tell you this and you can notch that down in eq to get a more flat response.

Seldom will you find anything with a completely flat response.