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I seem to be having trouble bringing up the volume for mp3 files after mastering it from the daw. It sounds loud enough on wav but when i export it to mp3 it sounds to low. I checked around to see how to master mp3 and it does bring up the levels but not enough with out distorting or losing it's clearness.

 

I was thinking maybe i can get a short sound clip that was mastered for mp3 that i can drop into my daw and compare it with the song I'm trying to master?  If anyone would like to help me out with a clip that has the right levels for mp3 that would be great or if anyone else has a better idea I'm open.

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"Me, too."  I would like to find some definitive (online or not) reference sources about "mastering for highly-compressed digital distribution formats, and for earbud headphones."   :)

 

Abbey Road had "a cheap set of speakers" in their mastering room for a reason.  Okay, and for the same reasons, what do we need to know in-advance when mixing and/or mastering our stuff, to prepare the work for being treated as kindly as possible by MP3, SoundCloud, and so on?  Especially if we plan to release for low- and high-resolution formats from the same basic material / mix? Anxious to know, too.

Edited by MikeRobinson
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From what I'm reading is that some bands while in the mixing stage think about the conversion to mp3/online streaming and even goes as far as to make the songs based on the state of clearness/loudness.

 

 So it would be hard to match that sound level from just converting wav to mp3 normally. I tried that and it doesn't produce the sound/tones i want to use even if i was to change it later on in the mixing it would come out not sounding the way i want it to sound so i don't do that method.

 

I use near field monitors and when i render it down to wav or mp3 i test it on many types of speakers TV,Cars, Headset to cheap computer speakers. More for learning the sound of that song to that monitor and how to mix it better later down the road for my other songs.

 

A lot of media is online and has been for awhile so the steps to take for mp3/streaming is necessary one. I've done research about the codecs you would use to how you mix it and there is something to this. Some codecs cut off at about 16k while others do not and that in it self is a big difference in how the song is converted.

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I'm also pondering the "cheap set of car speakers" effect.  For instance, when I bounce a song to MP3 and play it on a phone using earbuds, it sounds one way (especially in the amount of bass that can be heard); on decent phones, different.  On computer speakers, ditto; on the speakers in my house, the same.  It is especially the bass region in which the difference is most-clearly heard:  a "loud, thumping, much too far forward" bass on speakers seems to be pretty necessary on "buds" if you want to hear that there is bass at all, and so on.  But it'll "thump" you out of your living-room.  (I recently had to add a strong percussion-rhythm line to a song that, in my phones or in my room, had the tempo comfortably carried by the bass, because on my Android/buds there was no bass!)

 

Are these players really just engineered to play – as I am beginning to suspect that they are – "hyper-compressed == 'squashed as flat as a stuffed snake' sound-profile" commercial-pop recordings?  I mean, okay, I've got Logic Pro X, so I can certainly do that to a particular (for-MP3) "pressing" of my songs.  But I've still got to have a well-defined target shoot for.


I'm happy to "mix to the target," and I would expect to.  But my oh-so calibrated near fields aren't anything like earbuds!  "So what!" if it sounds fabulous in a perfect room:  it has to sound good strapped to a jogger's arm. :hippy:   
 
I'd love to read some technical discussions as to, "if you [had to // only wanted to] do it one way, to only mix to one (that is, one "MP3") target profile, what one-way would you do and why?  What would that profile be?  Are the presets that [pro-level] DAWs often have, suitable, at least as starting points?"

 

I can begin to see more clearly why MP3 music-players often have at-least basic EQ along with several EQ-presets.  But when I use the "stock, came with the phone" player on my Android, this being the "cheap set of car speakers on AM radio" of our day, it has none of that, such that I can find.  I have to assume that this least-common-denominator is what my "millions of adoring fans" have in their pockets, and that they don't even own a copy of "the manual."  Making a product that sounds good, "for them, on that(!)," is therefore my problem.

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When i first started to do mixing and mastering i was under the impression that if your mix/master is good it will play well on all forms of media. This doesn't seem to be the case as now it seems making it loud and keeping it clear is the "new" method of mix/mastering songs. My problem is that i can't get the sound levels with out distorting the song. I been making music most of my life and really taking the time out to learn more about mix/mastering but it is a lot to learn.

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  • 2 months later...

This is a great topic. I have the same and worse problem.

I am new here so this may be a dumb question but, where can I hear examples of the music you are talking about?

 

I use Samplitude Pro X and my mixes vary in volume frome song to song (not sure why).

 

I have also noticed a big difference in the way (especially) Sound Cloud

vary in EQ and playback volume.

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Any studio I have worked in we used to check the mix and the mastered mix using several speaker systems... Ie amps and speakers, not speakers alone.

There are a number of factors. We checked using big main monitors like at Tannoy Little Reds, near field monitors, maybe Yamaha NS 10s, a set of very small speakers equivalent to a boom box, a set of high speakers and a small mono speaker. Additionally we would use a studio amp (at least 1) and a hifi amp. This last was useful for working out the bass boost effect on hifis as part of the RIAA compensation curve (originally introduced to compensate for the mechanical weaknesses in even the best needle and vinyl arrangement. Toss in monitoring on cans and yes, even ear buds.

One of the biggest causes of issues on mp3 upload are where it isn't converted to the exact preferred format the web site likes. For example, you create a 256 bps file, while the site prefers 128 bps. Files. This results in conversion process taking place with the file running through yet more compression and completely ruining the mix. Better that you find out what the site needs and create that from the wav master directly.

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Any studio I have worked in we used to check the mix and the mastered mix using several speaker systems... Ie amps and speakers, not speakers alone.

There are a number of factors. We checked using big main monitors like at Tannoy Little Reds, near field monitors, maybe Yamaha NS 10s, a set of very small speakers equivalent to a boom box, a set of high speakers and a small mono speaker. Additionally we would use a studio amp (at least 1) and a hifi amp. This last was useful for working out the bass boost effect on hifis as part of the RIAA compensation curve (originally introduced to compensate for the mechanical weaknesses in even the best needle and vinyl arrangement. Toss in monitoring on cans and yes, even ear buds.

One of the biggest causes of issues on mp3 upload are where it isn't converted to the exact preferred format the web site likes. For example, you create a 256 bps file, while the site prefers 128 bps. Files. This results in conversion process taking place with the file running through yet more compression and completely ruining the mix. Better that you find out what the site needs and create that from the wav master directly.

Hey John, I personally make all of my mp3 at 192bps (I think) I only upload to 4 or 5 places and that is what is recomended on them all.

On SoundCloud I sometimes use a Wav but don't really hear the diff. Maybe I am just getting to freakin Old.

On one of the sites I use My mp3's sound really good (I won't mention it here until I find out if it is OK to do so).

the others, ehhh soso.

I have so much to learn (and there is SO much to learn) thats one reason I am glad I found this site.

EJB

https://soundcloud.com/rockchild56

Edited by EJB
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Ok, an issue right away...I just checked SoundCloud as it was the one you mentioned and I was fairly sure it wasn't 192bps

 

Quoting from their transcoding and upload FAQ:

 

"Sometimes our transcoding system can create audio artifacts, as we transcode all tracks to 128 kbps mp3 for streaming playback."

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Ok, an issue right away...I just checked SoundCloud as it was the one you mentioned and I was fairly sure it wasn't 192bps

 

Quoting from their transcoding and upload FAQ:

 

"Sometimes our transcoding system can create audio artifacts, as we transcode all tracks to 128 kbps mp3 for streaming playback."

Cool, Thank You I was wondering why they sounded so odd on there.

I guess I should read more carefully.

Edited by EJB
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If your songs are on ReverbNation, they say

 

"ReverbNation streams all songs at a bitrate of 128. If you have a bundled service or Mega Song Storage, then we stream the file to your listeners at the bitrate you ..."

 

If you use their digital distribution system, they want songs at 320bps

 

:)

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  • 3 weeks later...

It also makes a difference which encoder you use.  If you can, make sure your DAW (or whatever you are using to convert to MP3) supports LAME.  I'm certainly not an expert on this, but LAME sounds better than any other encoder I've used. And it's free. For many programs, all you have to do is drop the .dll in the home directory of the program.

Yes Steve, I agree. I just got a version of Reaper (on a trial basis) and it uses LAME to create mp3's. I do think they sound better (and louder).

Reaper is also very cool sonically. IMO. It will just take a little getting used to.

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with cubase i export to wav and use audacity to do lame mp3 transcoding.

 

my stuff in soundcloud has been more quiet than the pro guys music out there who compress it out of roof. but i've been learning some basics of mastering and "learned" to use ozone 5 which i used with my last piece i processed for last.fm and got it quite good, even comparable to the pro songs.

 

so one way to solve your sound level problem would be to grab ozone at the next discount.

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  • 1 month later...

My mail seems to be messed up as it wasn't telling me i had post to this topic. I did some compression over the last few months and i can tell you that unless you know how to compress a song you can really mess it up. It killed a lot of tones and it was dull. What works for one song didn't work for the other so that makes it a lot more complicated.

 

 I like REAPER Daw but it has an issue with my sound card drivers and i have to shut it down and restart it. Perhaps they will fix that soon. If i go into the sound options and change it then it will lock up and i have to c+a+d crash it. It also gives me blue screens from time to time. It seems as if the sound cards are conflicting with each other. Anyone else having this trouble with REAPER?

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