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Hook Or No Hook? That Is The Question.


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I have listened to a lot of songs here on the forum here. I have listened to and created amateur/semi pro music for most of my adult life. And I have come to a really simple, yet critical, conclusion:

 

Most of the stuff we hear and create (on forums like this and other amateur formats) doesn't have a good melody, or in pop terms, a good hook. 

 

Now, I know that this is common talk. We have all heard the lecture, read the book, taken the class online, watched a youtube tutorial...you get the picture. We have had the word "hook" indelibly etched into our songwriting conscious, even going into our subconscious. We have been told that without it, we will not grab the attention of our listener. Without the hook your audience will change the channel. They will click elsewhere. In other words, they will not listen.

 

I hope this doesn't sound preachy. I'm just really passionate about this subject. I am in the continuous hunt for the hook in any song I start. I have a boatload of bits on my phone that I have to scan through on my next writing go-round. I hum, beat, sing, play and talk through song ideas on my recorder app. I hope you do the same. I will listen intently to each one again and again. Most I will cut because I don't get a rise from the hook. My ears need to fall in love with that little line or lines that will have me obsessing for the rest of the project. There are some songs that I have written that I am sorry I spent so much time on because I chose to love my idea rather than follow the Rule of the Hook. Ralph Murphy said hit songs usually have five to seven repetitions of the title, but he cautions not to overdo it. And those repetitions need to be a fit and trim and wonderful as possible. 

 

What kind of litmus test do you put your songs through? Do you trust that the melody, or the hook, is something that anyone will want to whistle or hum, even if they don't particularly like the subject matter?

 

 

 

 

                                                                          

 

 

 

 
 
 
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Good topic Pat

Melodic hooks are certainly needed, and one of the more important facets of a good song, but let's not forget that there are hooks of various kinds, including at a gross level lyrics hooks and rhythmic hooks... Even production hooks. But all can and should be broken down further.

Getting a balance is important. For example, with lyrics, one obvious strong hook can work to the best advantage of the song if it is the title of the song... Because we want listeners to remember the name of our song, if only so they know what to ask for! If we have a second weaker hook we can add a depth of interest and a second reason for a listener to want our song. If we make the second hook as dominant as the title hook it can work against us as listeners can't easily remember what to ask for. This is often the case when we see songs with parentheses in the title "Reach Out (I'll be there)". Add more of this "memorable phrase" style hook and it gets way too confusing.

So we add our main title 7 times, a second phrase hook say 3 times... Is that all? No. We can play with rhyme hooks, or phonics, or even combine them all together like David Bowie's "Changes", where the main title hook is given an additional hook quality by a phonic /alliteration repeated numerous times as "Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes" or a similar idea with The Who's "My Generation" where the concept of the hook is repeated "P-p-p People try to put us down, Just because we g-g-g get around", while not being the same each time. As I say the same can be done with more conventional alliteration or even lyrical rhythm. Rap is founded on that one hook concept.

Of course there are rhythmic hooks, think of Queen and "We Will Rock You" for example, or Harmonic hooks, melodic hooks (as you mentioned) of various types including musical key hooks or scale hooks, production hooks, conceptual hooks, even frequency hooks! Some are within the control of the writer, some the performers and some the producers... and more. Some overlap across different roles too.

The point is while your song can reach saturation of one or another of these, a good song tends to have representation of a variety of these key hook types. They are arranged in such a way that the listener doesn't develop hook fatigue, instead they find songs with many reasons that the listener will not only remember it but so much so that they cannot forget it for several reasons... Ie the hooks work together adding into a literally unforgettable song, for all the right reasons.

As I say, too many of the same type of hook causes individual hooks to compete, to work against each other. Too few hooks and a song is not memorable enough. Over do an individual hook, we get hook fatigue and we can remember a song for a negative reason. You get a similar reaction when a song over saturates with too much airplay. We get sick of hearing the song to the point that if we never hear it again that will be too soon.

When we hear of songs not having enough "ideas" in the mix, it is this collection of hooks we are really talking about. a truly great song is packed with ideas (hooks), but for all those ideas to work together we need a variety of types of ideas and sufficient repetition to drill the hooks home without causing hooks to compete or cause hook fatigue.

Like you Pat I collect hooks, melodic and otherwise. I repeat them to myself over and over. I record them, I leave them and come back to them, I sometimes try them on other people. I combine them, adjust them and recombine them over and over.

One good and simple test is... Record your hook (lyrical, melodic, whatever). Leave it 48 hours before coming back to it. Challenge yourself to remember the hook. Check it to see if you remembered it accurately. If you do it is a good start. Try the same again but leave it longer. Why? Simple, for a hook to work it has to be noticeable, likeable and... Dun dun dun...memorable.

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As some might find it useful, here is an article I wrote for Songstuff on the subject of song hooks a while ago...

http://songwriting.songstuff.com/article/power_of_song_hooks/

Understanding and using song hooks well is without doubt the biggest factor in particularly commercial songwriting, but I wouldn't underestimate their importance with any level of songwriting. We do not write songs so they can be forgotten, or so they will have an audience of one. Taking time to recognise, and understand good hooks is probably thee number one, hands down thing you can work on that will have the biggest impact on the standard of work you create.

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I immediately started thinking of  "If You Really Love Me" by Stevie Wonder. A really good example of that hook laden song you are referring to. It starts out with the main theme, infectious, over and deliciously over:

 

And if you really love me, won't you tell me..
And if you really love me, won't you tell me..
And if you really love me, 

Why don't you tell me?
Then I won't have to be playing around

 

Then he gets into another unforgettable lyric and melodic hook

 

You call my name, oh so sweet
To make your kiss incomplete..

 

Then he completes his thought to get us back to the name of the song, which is?? REPEATED :)

 

And so on..Stevie is a great example of what a hook and sub-hooks should sound like. Any fledgling or experienced songwriter should have a favorite in every genre. R&B, Rock, Gospel, etc....

 

But he's not the only one. There are other more modern examples. Like that Eminem and Rhianna song a few years back, I Love The Way You Lie. She starts the song out with the hook and main theme:

 

Just gonna stand there

And watch me burn
But it's alright
Because I like
The way it hurts
Just gonna stand there
And hear me cry
But that's alright
Because I love
The way you lie
I love the way you lie

 

After he does his rap, which is, sort of got a rhythm hook to it, she comes in to get us back to why we listen to the song. That melodic, catchy, melancholy line:

 

Just gonna stand there

And watch me burn...yada....

 

I love the way you lie

 

I try and help out song writers by teaching them to find a really simple chord progression and repeat it over, and over, and...over...til that hook just kinda jumps out at them.

 

But you are so right, John. There is more to popular music than the catchy hook/chorus. There are simple, 1 bar melodies that can make a song and make it a timeless classic. Remember Chuck Mangione's trumpet classic, "Feels So Good"? Have a listen to it and see what I mean.

 

Yea, even Beethoven knew what he was doing with his 5th Symphony hook. Talk about hard to forget! ;) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Recently, I finished a short piece called Cat Walk, which you can listen-to here, which – to my ears, at least – really sounded like "a complete song."  I wondered what exactly it was that made my ears think so.  And I think that a pretty substantial part of that answer is, "repetition [that doesn't sound repetitive]."

 

If you looked at the project timeline in Logic Pro X, you would see that the piece actually consists of, with very few exceptions, a handful of two-bar phrases that are extensively repeated ... except that they are never actually repeated.

 

(Heh... they're split in two, flipped end-for-end, turned upside-down and both ... but never quite "repeated.")

 

This characteristic of the piece sounded, to my ears, "very familiar, and very commercial."  The degree of repetition that I knew to be a fundamental part of the song's design ... simply didn't sound that way.  Instead, it sounded ... familiar.  Hmmm...

 

It's not just the lyrics, but the underlying repetitive structure of the music itself, that makes a commercial song "click."  A song needs a lot of repetition, at various levels, to really stick in the listener's mind and cause his or her toes to tap.

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  • 3 months later...

@Pat and John

 

Very well written- that's exactly what I think-but hard to do.

I always have it on my mind and try to make things better.......lot of work but worth it :thumbup1:

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Awww David. Is this an intentional self-punishment? An intentional psychological massage? Wilful torture?

Or is it unintentional? A "despite your best efforts" kind of thing?

Self deprecation to entertain the masses or some other purpose?

Or a social comment on the malaise that soaks our society creating wilful disinterest amongst the masses?

Or simply something tongue in cheek to say?

Ah the mystery! The suspense!

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I'm trying to give hooks a holiday. Its not easy when your instincts are rooted in hooks.

 

Most writers want to grab attention, keep attention and even create ear-worms maybe. For all these things you need hooks.

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