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Worth It To Copyright Songs?


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I was talking to some people deep in to the music industry  on another forum  and they said the  copyrighting a song in this day and age is basically a waste of money because

1. You have have something worth stealing  aka "a  hit song" (which he says most amateur writers never will)

2. The  thief has to have heard your song.

3. You not only have prove that you own and wrote the song but that the thief heard your song and then stole it with intent to profit.

4. Have the time and money to prove all of this and go to court.

5. Get a judge and jury to rule in your favor.

 

and that having all of that happen is nearly impossible and only a handful cases have ever been brought court over copyright infringement and won the trial . They said  if you have anything worth recording that you should just register with a PRO and no need to copyright. I would like other opinions from other writers especially those who have had some else major record one of their songs. at $65 to copyright a collection of songs with USCO if it does anything at all seems worth it especially if you only once or twice a year.  What do you think?

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chances of 2 people writing the same melody and such , never happen , if yours is copyrighted and the song is stolen , you will get the proceeds , was just in the news not long ago , even a post here would prove when and what , they have to show the same , when and what , the one who has the earlist wins,

rock on

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I guess my question should be how often do infringements happen  and how likely is to win a case of infringement with minimal monitary backing but lots of free time on my hands? and will copyrighting your song help to avoid future cases  of infringement or do most song thiefs not care whether a song is copyrighted or even bother to check?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Couldn't have said it better, Hobo.  Sometimes, "a little piece of paper"“ and the fact that you actually filed it“ is literally "worth a fortune."

 

You can register, not just one song, but an entire "collection" of songs for that measly $35.00.  This disarmingly-simple, yet vital, act establishes the work as being your property when absolutely nothing else will.

 

If you ever intend to try to sell your work, you must first establish that you legally own it.  And, you must establish precisely what it is that you claim to own.  This is what copyright is for.  Don't let the ease and inexpensiveness by which you can do this, undermine its sense of importance.

 

And, I can also tell you this from Nashville:  if you can't prove (by means of copyright registration number or proof-of-application) that you do own it, music buyers will refuse to listen to it, for fear of somehow being caught-up in an infringement action brought by who-knows-who-else.  They must have evidence that the person with whom they are dealing is the owner of the work and does possess the capacity to sell.  There is only one acceptable way to do that, pursuant to United States Law and the pragmatic needs of a licensing transaction, and that one way is:  copyright registration.  "Show me the piece of paper.  We will look it up on-line to confirm, before we proceed."

 

Otherwise ... "No, Your Honor, we could not have been party to this alleged infringement, because we can show that we never listened to the song.  This $30 million dollar lawsuit against our mega-company should be dismissed as frivolous."  Sure, it's called protecting one's butt, and when your butt is really big and full of money ;) you pay attention to things like that.

 

The virtually-nonexistent "cost" of "minding your P's and Q's" is simply ... a cost of doing business.  A business expense, fully deductible on your taxes as "professional fees."

Edited by MikeRobinson
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  • 4 weeks later...
  • Noob

You can register, not just one song, but an entire "collection" of songs for that measly $35.00.  This disarmingly-simple, yet vital, act establishes the work as being your property when absolutely nothing else will.

 

I have a question about this statement. I read somewhere a couple years ago that the songs had to be completed work and that there had to be an audio recording of the work, as well as sheet music for each song. Does anyone know if this is true?

 

Also, like many others, I have several songs that are completed and several others that aren't, but are very close. I'd like to protect my ideas, but I'm not sure if those can be included or not? I'm kind of becoming paranoid about playing my original songs and/or unfinished ideas around other musicians.

 

Thoughts?

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  • Noob

Hey Guitarjoe!

 

So you're aware, I'm trying very hard to keep myself away from topics like this. Seems I'm not always as tactful as I should be.  :whistle:

BUT, based on the fact that your post has been here for days & no one has responded, I'l try to assist you.

 

 

That an easy one...NO! I personally hold copyrights on many songs and have NEVER sent any type of sheet music....just the completed forms required for filing and the audio files (CDs or tapes). I believe that you can file with either sheet music, or an audio version, but you do NOT need both! They don't even want text versions of lyrics....just the audio.

 

The best thing I can tell you concerning the last 1/2 of your question is that you might consider multiple filings for different versions of the same title.

Usually when I file, I file an entire collection....a group of works. Back in the days of snail-mail filing, the Library of Congress offered an attachment to the basic filing form. On the attachment you had the opportunity to list the individual works you had included in the collective filing. Whenever I filed new, revised versions of the same essential song, I listed a number behind the song title on the attachment...."The Real World - 2". that allowed me to keep track of which versions were covered by which specific registrations numbers.

That being said, I never applied that method to incomplete works, of I've no advice to offer you. My multiple filings either involved better recordings of the same song, of different arrangements of the same song. I have several that began as vocal tunes, then took on a 2nd life as instrumentals. In addition, I have several with long and short versions....both are copyrighted.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tom

 

Hi, Tom.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to answer. Most of my songs are either finished or are very close (needs a bridge, needs one more verse, etc). I think I'll do as you recommend and I'll add the incomplete songs as shorter works and update them later when I find a good solution.

 

Many thanks.

 

Joe

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  • 2 weeks later...

The answer is easy ... at least in the United States.  Surf to http://www.copyright.gov, then commit to spending some serious time there.  It's actually a very-informative and well-written site.

 

If you want to $$sell$$ me something ... in hopes that I will then succeed in making it into a $$commercial$$ $$product$$ (to our mutual benefit ...) then ... you must(!!) demonstrate to me that you are the (exclusive) owner of the thing that you are hawking.  Such that "no one else on this planet" might ever show-up to pee upon our campfire ... ever.

 

And that means:  perfected Copyright.  Give me the US Copyright Registration Number, and the date of registration, and excuse-me while I look it up and get the Official Nod from my Lawyer.

 

Trust me:  "if our respective situations were reversed," your imminently-sensible requirements would be no different . . . 

 

"You come to me, proferring a Thing to Sell.  Goody for you.  I must prove that you do, in fact, own it, and that you do, in fact, possess the right to sell it."  Of course I must.  Of course.

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  • 1 month later...

Hey all,

 

For years, I've been copyrighting my songs at www.copyright.gov/eco and it's always been $35. I just logged on to copyright a batch of new songs, and now the website is trying to charge me $55.

 

Has the copyright office really increased the fee from $35 to $55? or is there something I'm missing?

 

 

Much appreciated,

 

    Confused copywriter

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Wow, $55 is definitely above my budget, but I do want to make sure I'm protected. I'm pondering working around this by registering all my songs as an album with 1 track. (A-la Shine on You Crazy Diamond Parts 1 through 9) Sure, my single work is a 60-minute long song with 10 key changes...at least it's registered! Any thoughts?

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I've read that site top-to-bottom. I agree that this information is stated on the site, but in no way is it stated clearly

 

Thank you for your help -  good to know I can still get away with paying the $35.

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OK, so I attempted to register multiple songs under a "single work" $35 category, and I received this warning message:

 

"IMPORTANT NOTICE:
 
WARNING:  Using the application to file a claim that does not meet all of the criteria below may result in processing delays, additional fees, and later effective date of registration.
 
Examples of works that are NOT eligible for this application include:
 
* Unpublished collections (multiple poems, photographs, illustrations, songs,
  sound recordings, paintings, sculptures, jewelry, etc.)
* CD containing multiple tracks
 
In addition, it is almost certain that you do NOT qualify if you intend to upload more than one file or a zip file.  This application is limited to one (1 item) work, not to one upload that contains more than one work.
 
If your claim is NOT eligible for this application, click “Cancel†below to revise your answers on the preceding page.
 
If you claim satisfies all of the criteria listed above, click “OK†below."
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Koff, koff ...  "$35" vs. "$55" is just the difference between one "good luch" and one "hopefully better one."  

 

If you're seriously "in business," then it's just a cost of doing business ... and you pay it ... and you write it all off as "legal and professional fees."

 

Prepare a nice, big collection, and register it all at once to make good use of your money.  75 years after you're dead, your grandchildren will surely thank you.

 

Before you can sell a house, you have to be able to prove that you have "clear title" to it.  Well, exactly the same reasoning applies to songs.  You have to be able to prove that you have "clear title" to the work that you are pitching.  And that means ... copyright.  They're going to ask you for the effective date of registration, and they just might look it up to be sure.  They're going to require you to send the certificate number (or a scan of the certificate page, or both) before they actually do any serious work with it.

 

The penalties set forth in copyright law are, of course, very severe, and there are shysters out there who'll steal someone else's stuff and try to pawn it off to the unwary sucker.  Therefore, the professionals in the biz harbor no exceptions whatsoever on this particular point.  (And the equally-professional sellers of songs would not have it any other way.  Only through such attention to detail is everyone protected.)

 

Here is every music-professional's nightmare (as well as an amazingly good theatrical performance by a couple of the best actors in film today):  "you stole my story."  (From the movie, "Secret Window.")

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 months later...

Has anyone on this Forum heard of services such as www.SongSecure.com or www.SongRegistration.com?

 

These websites charge $99 for a 3-year membership and they claim to be a substitute for the costly process of registering your songs with the US copyright office. The basic premise is that a song is already technically copywritten the moment it's written down or recorded, and that all one needs to defend the authenticity of his/her work in a court of law, is to prove it was written by him/her first. These companies claim to be able to irrefutably prove this.

 

SongRegistration.com has the most unprofessional looking website I've ever seen, which makes me skeptical.

 

SongSecure.com looks slightly more legit, but it mentions nothing about their service's ability to hold up in a court of law. I'm skeptical.

 

Has anyone had any experience with either of these sites? if so, I'd be curious to hear about it.

 

Happy songwriting,

Jeff

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"Your instincts serve you well, Padewan ..."

 

In the United States, as in [all] other countries, there is a well-established system of law by which the Government is prepared to defend(!) your claim, in any and in every Court in the Land ... in exchange for the procedural step of "formal registration."

 

For a mere $35, you can register as many songs as you like, all at the same time. (Copyright protection instantaneously applies, jointly and severally, to all of them.)  "No cockamamie non-legal theories need apply." It's all right there in The United States Code §17.  Pay up, and the entire United States Government is ready to go to bat for you ... free of charge.  (It's right there in the US Constitution.)

 

- - - 

Also:  if you actually try to sell a song, anyone-and-everyone is going to right away ask you for your US Copyright Registration Number!  (Which, of course, you can send them "straight from the website," since it is immediately effective.)

 

... and yes, they will check!

 

It's just like "the title to your car":  if you want to sell it, you must first prove that you own it.  Your registration is independently-verifiable evidence of your legal assertion ("rightly or wrongly ...") that you do, in fact, "own the rights to this song." And therefore, it is evidence – good in any every Court in this country – that you ("say that you") have the legal capacity to market it to anybody. This very-procedural step enables the parties to whom you wish to license your work, to proceed "in good faith," without fear of being accused of "contributory infringement."  By demanding this evidence, and by documenting that they did so, they "dot their i's and cross their t's." They fulfill the legal standard of "due diligence," and, in so doing, bring the United States Government on their side. (And yours.)

 

Don't leave home without it.™

 

Edited by MikeRobinson
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  • 3 weeks later...

"Given that this is 'your business(!!)'" do kindly remember that you are selling your product to a buyer who is ... at least, theoretically ... taking a rather-gigantic legal risk(!) by buying from you!

 

That "legal risk," of course, is extreme!  It is the risk that "you, in fact, are not(!) :o the lawful owner(!!) of the thing that you are selling!"

 

Potential purchasers mitigate that legal risk by first determining that "you, the seller, have indeed established a legal claim of title(!) to" this piece of intellectual property ... and by scrupulously documenting the "due diligence" process by which they arrived at that conclusion.

 

By doing so, they scrupulously separate their potential legal liability from ("sucks to be you ...") yours

 

"If you, by submitting on such-and-such a date a fraudulent claim of copyright," then that is y-o-u-r prison-sentence!  (And, yours alone.)

 

They can protect themselves from any allegations of "innocent" nor "contributory" infringement by demonstrating to the Honorable Court that they "minded their P's and Q's." (And "His/Her Honor need merely "surf to copyright.gov to prove it.")

 

- - - 

And, "no matter what country you live in, "always think like a Lawyer!" More-or-less, "the risks, anywhere, are fundamentally the same."

 

Since you are the seller, it is fundamentally important that you protect "the people who are eager to send you money(!)" from all reasonably-forseeable legal risks.

 

Pursue "your business" in a "businesslike way!"

Edited by MikeRobinson
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  • 2 months later...

Years ago I was under the understanding that registering several songs as one piece of work wasn't good enough to protect the author. My understanding was that if one did that then the BODY of work was protected but someone could remove one piece of it (one song) and place it into a compilation that included other artists without infringing on an author's copyright since they didn't steal the whole 'work'- just a part of it. I will research this but I was curious to know if anyone has heard or experienced  this. The word years ago was that compiled "party albums' created from numerous artist's songs that were not individually copyrighted got around the copyright laws.

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I would think that since copyright is automatic by law when put into  tangible form and that the registration with copyright office is merely evidence of that if needed in court, that regardless of how it was registered, it would be evidence that your rights were infringed upon--just a thoughtful guess--I hope you hear from someone who can speak from actual knowledge.

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49 minutes ago, Pahchisme Plaid said:

I would think that since copyright is automatic by law when put into  tangible form and that the registration with copyright office is merely evidence of that if needed in court, that regardless of how it was registered, it would be evidence that your rights were infringed upon--just a thoughtful guess--I hope you hear from someone who can speak from actual knowledge.

 

I would intuitively think so as well but intuition and law don't always jive. I'm pretty sure what you say is the correct interpretation. I'm still looking into this.

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Thank you. Did find this from: http://diymusician.cdbaby.com/musician-tips/5-things-every-musician-know-copyright/

 

"Pre-mastered is fine. And individual songs are still protected if registered as a collection. Lastly, I think what matters MOST is when you register the copyright with the LoC. As for what you put on your disc, I'd suggest putting the more current date, as some people in the media will see the 2013 date and decide to pass on your album because it's yesterday's news"

 

Hope I didn't shake anyone up too badly. How embarrassing but at least the issue which hung over my head is settled.  If I couldn't safely submit songs as a body of work it would cost $1400 in Library of Congress fees for 40 songs. I already had 10 individually copyrighted back in 1994 when the fee was only $10 a song. Hopefully now I can get the 40 song balance done in four stages at ten songs a whack for about $140. I think it's imminently worth the effort to do so and always have. Thanks again everyone. Sleeping at night has suddenly taken on a whole new dimension :D 

Edited by HIGHFLIER
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