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Many Chords Vs Fewer Chords?


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Hi, quick question here.

 

I read an article recently where the author, celebrating the song "Gloria" by Van Morrison, mentions the simplicity of the song's chords, the fact that it uses only three, and if you were to play the song you could sound pretty close to the artist because of this.

 

The article was largely glib so I took things with a grain of salt, but it did get me thinking, What is the effect of the number of chords, not necessarily quality, in any song?

I'm pretty sure I've enjoyed music in pop/alternative with many chords and just as many if not more with few (think of all the great punk songs, funk songs, and so on.)

 

Of course I'm thinking of examples in popular music, but information from other genres, and examples from your own work, is of course more than welcome.

 

Thanks for any help.

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I suspect there's a threshold at which a song ceases being easily memorable and that the average listener has a natural aversion to complexity for that very reason.  That's likely why musicians tend to gravitate toward more complex music - they've been trained to remember longer sequences of chords or notes.

 

Something to that effect, anyway.

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Hi, quick question here.

 

I read an article recently where the author, celebrating the song "Gloria" by Van Morrison, mentions the simplicity of the song's chords, the fact that it uses only three, and if you were to play the song you could sound pretty close to the artist because of this.

 

The article was largely glib so I took things with a grain of salt, but it did get me thinking, What is the effect of the number of chords, not necessarily quality, in any song?

I'm pretty sure I've enjoyed music in pop/alternative with many chords and just as many if not more with few (think of all the great punk songs, funk songs, and so on.)

 

Of course I'm thinking of examples in popular music, but information from other genres, and examples from your own work, is of course more than welcome.

 

Thanks for any help.

 

I think I know what you are wondering about. Yep...always use less chords. But put everything into those chords. Touch is everything.

 

Sustain chords and keep a good ear on the dominant intervals of those chords...and embellish them.

 

Q: what gauge strings do you use?

 

T

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Well the song "Jambalaya" by Hank W. only has 2 chords and "Put The Lime In The Coconut" by Harry Nilsson only has 1 chord.

 

Then again "Hard Habit To Break" by Chicago has uhhh a bunch as well as key changes.

 

It all depends on how you want the melody to sound or be presented. The fewer chords that you use the more creative

you need to be with the melody it needs to evolve more Verse to Chorus etc.

 

That's one slant on a very good subject.

 

EJB

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I tend to use too many chords and my songs usually have many chords.

But honestly, it all depends on melody and arrangement. The best count would be - what works best.

Sometimes 3 or 4 chords are perfect measure, but there are examples in the other end as well(more then 10).

Ive read the blogger that said that more chords tend to be used in slow songs and fewer in fast songs, otherwise youve got the frantic feeling, which is probably not what you want the song to sound like.

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I'd always choose fewer chords. But there's no correct answer... it's just whatever the song needs. Sometimes a song cries out for more. Sometimes it just feels right to keep it very simple.

 

All I'd say is that using more chords for the hell of it, or to seem more impressive, or to just plain show off... is a really bad idea.

 

It's what you do along with them isn't it?

 

If you can come up with a melody and sing like this then you can make a song like this with 3 chords too (it's mostly just two chords) -

 

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I'd always choose fewer chords. But there's no correct answer... it's just whatever the song needs. Sometimes a song cries out for more. Sometimes it just feels right to keep it very simple.

 

All I'd say is that using more chords for the hell of it, or to seem more impressive, or to just plain show off... is a really bad idea.

 

It's what you do along with them isn't it?

 

If you can come up with a melody and sing like this then you can make a song like this with 3 chords too (it's mostly just two chords) -

 

Great Song and I  agree it all depends on how you structure the melody heres the one I mentioned with one chord;

 

Nilsson (I spelled it right this time) is way too Cool.

(I Love the count off) BTW the chord is C7

 

on the other hand and an example of the chords following the melody is;

 

(Steve Gadd is a monster as well)

There must be 50 ways to write/play a Song.

 

EJB

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi, quick question here.

 

I read an article recently where the author, celebrating the song "Gloria" by Van Morrison, mentions the simplicity of the song's chords, the fact that it uses only three, and if you were to play the song you could sound pretty close to the artist because of this.

 

The article was largely glib so I took things with a grain of salt, but it did get me thinking, What is the effect of the number of chords, not necessarily quality, in any song?

I'm pretty sure I've enjoyed music in pop/alternative with many chords and just as many if not more with few (think of all the great punk songs, funk songs, and so on.)

 

Of course I'm thinking of examples in popular music, but information from other genres, and examples from your own work, is of course more than welcome.

 

Thanks for any help.

The answer is drably; it depends. 

 

Within a particular key we have essentially 7 chord bases, and numerous variations of those chords, and most popular songs will use 3 or 4 up until about 8 or so different chord variations, at least ones that repeat in patterns, but we also have to remember that melody plays an important part in how those chords come across in a song. 

 

If we have, for instance, a  complex melody in the key of C, and the guitar chord progression is C, F, G, but the vocal melody strikes a B at the time the C is played on the guitar, then we get a tonal mixture of vocal and guitar equalling a Cmaj7 chord, and if that vocal melody hits an E, we get an Fmaj7 chord, and if we leave out the B note of the G chord and strike a C on the vocal we get a Gsus4.

 

So, the combination of vocal melody, guitar chords (and don't forget bass) offer innumerable different combinations and voicings for those chords, which is why we can create so many different moods and vibes by simply changing the melody over a chord sequence.

 

The matter of 'more or less' chords is less relevant to songwriting than using chords, melodies basslines, tempos and various other tools that help to create the mood you desire at any given point in a song.

 

For instance, if I want to uplift a song, I can change the key up a semitone or two. That automatically means I'll be using more chords, but I didn't deliberately set out to use more over less. So, quality, at least for me, is much more important than quantity.

 

That said, it's very, very useful to experiment using more or less chords, unusual changes or variations, changing key and particularly using chords that are similar to one another but give slightly different feels.

 

For instance, next time you write a song and use a C chord, try using an Am instead. There's only one note difference between them, but play with it.

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Fantastic answers guys! They've really opened my mind up when I listen to, look at, and think about other artist's works.

 

(Also as an aside, my last few song ideas I've been developing have been based on two chords and one is mostly two chords with a parallel modulation in the bridge/outro I'm working on. All of course experimenting with melody, quiet/loud dynamics. Again all experimental but promising so far!)

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  • 2 weeks later...

It depends on the song. I feel like more memorable songs have fewer chords, like Sweet Home Alabama or Free Fallin. Makes it easier for non musicians to listen to. However, I feel like other songs, such as Hotel California that have many chords yet are classics. Personally, if you want to write a hit, keep it short and simple. However, if you are like myself and get bored of using the same simple chords over and over, make the song more complicated. Just my take on it. :)

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Another very interesting topic – discussed at great (and very academic) length in Jimmy Webb's book, Tunesmith – is that of "chord substitutions."  Even though we are most-familiar with "three chords and the truth," there are many chords that share notes-in-common with these "oldy moldys" such that we can substitute one of these instead ... creating an entirely different "flavor" which still sounds right.  The more you understand about that theory, the more you can do it ... or, not.

 

I've heard songs that constructed a counter-melody to the main theme, then built interesting chords which were constructed using the note from the main theme, the note from the counter, and one or two other notes (usually 7ths, 9ths, or 11ths), and playing with the timing so that the various "note hit" did not precisely coincide.  Suddenly, a very exotic-sounding, waterfall-like pattern was being produced, yet both the main theme and the counter melody remained quite clear.  Paul Simon's descant to Scarborough Fair is an example of this idea.

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I also use few chords in my songs. For me it truly depends on the melody I choose, If the melody is strong enough I do not use many chords at all. I have many songs with only 3 chords..

I like to play with the chords in different ways though to create different feel. If the melody is weak I tend to compansies with many chords.. But usually I trash my songs that I feel has a weak melody anyway.  When I think of it I usually use beetween 3-4 chords :D I change the bass tone sometimes though.. (I suppose that creates a new chord. I dont know)

But it depends on the song/genre I suppose

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I recently played The Rolling Stone's Wild Horses at a song circle, which has a lot of chord changes:

 

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/r/rolling_stones/wild_horses_crd.htm

 

It acts as kind of a lead-rhythm guitar because many of the changes occur during the pauses in vocals. So that's one case where you'd use many chords.

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  • 2 months later...
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One of my favorite quotes by the great Lou Reed:

 

"One chord is fine. Two chords is pushing it. Three chords and you're into jazz."[

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  • 2 months later...

One of my favorite quotes by the great Lou Reed:

 

"One chord is fine. Two chords is pushing it. Three chords and you're into jazz."[

 

LOL Never heard that quote before - priceless!

 

Honestly, I think it takes talent to write a song with only 1 or two chords. It's just as difficult as writing a tune with lots of changes. If you are writing a song with one chord it better be interesting melodically and/or rhythmically. Sometimes less is more.

 

Personally, I never really think about how many chords a song I am writing will end up having. I have noticed that parts of (my) songs with less movement in the melody tend to need more chord variation to make the melody 'breathe' ...

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Have just learned 'Ghost Town' by the Specials.

Its all jazz chords, but I love it every bit as much as simple modal stuff.

 

I use too many chords in most of my own stuff, but at least it keeps me occupied.

 

The maxim I try to keep to is KISS, so I suppose I must be stupid.

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  • 1 month later...

I read a theory somewhere that the number of chords used can affect the perceived speed of a song.

Being that fewer chord changes were slower more were faster.

So in that case you could have a chord go for four bars unchanged

Then two bars of the next chord

Then one bar of the third chord

Etc to accelerate you into the chorus

In addition it's an issue of prosody that is the overarching consideration.

If there is tension in the lyric line maybe there needs to be tension in the chord to support it.

On the other hand " the ballad of Hollis Brown" has a lot of tension and the whole thing is Em, and it sings convincingly.

I do know if you combine tension in the chord with tension in the lyric, and back heavy or weak bar phrasing it all seems to work to get her to convey emotion. So I would say it's a prosody/ genre issue.

Cheers

Gary

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  • 1 month later...

I think it would all depend on the song and the chords you are adding or taking away.  Adding or taking away one chord (or even note) can dramatically change the feeling of a song.  You can't really say that adding or subtracting chords will do the same thing to all songs.

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  • 2 months later...
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It really depends on the melody that you have. You just want to find the chords that go best with it and sometimes that'll end up being a bunch of different chords. This ended up happening for a song that I wrote where I wrote the melody before the chords. However, a lot of popular music is written with only 4 or 5 chords. Take Creep by Radiohead for example. That entire song is literally the same 4 chords in the exact same pattern for the entire duration of the song and it's in my opinion one of the best modern pop songs. 

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