Pro Tools Launches New Purchase Model

[starise]

The dust has barely settled from the announcement that  Cakewalk went to a pay by month alternate purchase policy for it's flagship software called Sonar, when along comes Pro Tools to do a similar thing.

 

The two plans are different though. In the case of Cakewalk Sonar paying for 12 months gives you full ownership of the software.

 

Under the Avid Pro Tools plan you can also pay monthly but if you no pay you no play no matter how long you pay.

[john]

This model has been used by Adobe for the last couple of years. You more or less pay for what you want, for as long as you need it, which is pretty useful... but in the end it can cost you more.

 

I like the model it must be said

[Just1L]

Yep, that business model has been around for at least 5 years in the minds of the tech community. I recall an article in Wired magazine, around 5 years ago where the comment was made by a CEO (can't remember who, or what company he was from, but it was a big player). The comment was "We need to get people to not be attached to physical things and the thought of actual "ownership." It is a frightening concept in the long run. For example with Adobe mentioned above. With their cloud based software initially it sounds like a great deal … as long as you can afford it. When Adobe announced it was going to the rental system, I purchased the newest versions of the software so we wouldn't need to join the cloud as I normally can keep our company running with the new software 5-6 years. With hopes in that time either an alternate would pop up, or we're then forced to the cloud.

 

Here is why it wasn't good for us. We use multiple pieces of software from different companies. With Adobe, when they upgrade WE ARE FORCED TO UPGRADE. Sounds pleasant because we'd get the newest features and whatnot. But, at some point, one of their upgrades would then affect our other software and our OS and we would be forced to upgrade. With our current pagination/order entry software, should Adobe upgrade us to a version that wouldn't work, we would immediately need to shell out $15,000 unnecessarily for our business, only because we were forced to do so by Adobe. Not to mention getting new computers for any of our current ones that wouldn't be able to run the software smoothly. It isn't a good move to put other people in control of your company like that.

 

I don't know how ProTools or Cakewalk work, or if you can keep earlier versions when they come out with new ones. With Adobe, you can't, you're forced to upgrade. So eventually, if Cakewalk's terms are similar, you'd be forced to upgrade your computer, or get a new one altogether so you can run the latest version. Or I suppose if you are lucky, your computer will still run it but it will just be slow and lag eventually causing unnecessary headaches. Not a problem if money isn't an issue at any point in your life. 

 

I think for some the model works great. I just wish people weren't forced one way or the other and had alternate options within their business model.

 

Randy

Edited March 12, 2015 by Just1L

[starise]

I knew Adobe had a " pay as you go" model but I believe Cakewalk was the first DAW software company to do it. I didn't know that the Adobe plan was so potentianlly expensive. I feel for ya there Randy. I hope you don't need to shell out big $$ for it.

 

If Cakewalk had adopted the Pro Tools plan I would likely be looking for new DAW software. From what I understand of it ( and please correct me if I'm wrong) You can pay monthly for PT for years and then come up short  on cash one month and immediately you're out of the game. Same as the Adobe model. The Cakewalk Sonar plan lets you keep the software after 1 year indefinitely or until it becomes obsolete. The main disadvantage to stopping payment is you loose out on regular additions, improvements and upgrades and you must pay a 1 year minimum to be an owner. In the two months since this has been launched Cakewalk has added numerous goodies and improvements. The plug ins alone are worth the monthly price.

 

Admittedly the price of entry for a new user is rather steep but once you get in the door there are going to be offers for renewal after 1 year that make it tempting to stay in the game. Since I was a past user of Sonar I qualified for a one time upgrade price of 149.00..I think this was only a one time deal to get us older users to stay on the teat so to speak. Next year it will probably go up to 199.00 for an existing user for the Platinum version....still a far cry from the 499.00 a new user must pay. I'm sure like all the others they will offer periodic incentives to either change from your old daw or stay in the monthly upgrade/update cycle. As Randy said it's all going to eventually become obsolete, even so...I think if a person bought in now and didn't buy again for 5 years their computer would fail before the software becomes obsolete.

 

Others are following suit besides these two.........Melda was taking a survey to see if people would be willing to pay in a similar fashion for their plug-ins. The bottom line is software companies need to bring in fairly regular revenue to stay healthy and the old system never guaranteed a revenue stream. I think it's a win/win situation because we get regular updates and additions in the form of plug-ins etc and the developers don't go hungry.

 

If it gets to be too expensive in the future...who knows? Maybe I'll be using Reaper

[Just1L]

As I never seem to be living in the "present", LOL, when I envision this business model in our everyday lives it becomes a little scary. Think of it being applied to, say, automobiles. Yeah, normally you're paying a monthly fee whether you buy or lease but nowadays, at least you have that option to buy and keep paying on it until it's paid off. Then, for what it's worth, the car is yours. In this model, it's never yours and you always keep paying.

 

No pay, no option to buy, no car.

 

Some may say that's great because the less cars on the planet, the less pollution, oil usage, etc… And there's probably a very large group already out there that would love for that to happen. I'm sure I could get by without a car, but I'd hate to be forced into that option.

[starise]

To be honest it didn't initially sit very well with me either, unless I considered the alternative...

 

I thought some similar things about how it's all going. From where I stand, I see everything gradually getting more and more expensive and many people aren't making the income to offset that.......so the lower and middle people on the income scale end up being renters and leasers.

 

And if you take something like a car lease.....they make it more financially beneficial to keep leasing instead of buying the car...it's all in the fine print. I haven't ever leased a car for that reason, but cars are ungodly expensive now and I wouldn't blame someone for looking at it as an option.And at least some of that price was probably to cover all the lawsuits. If they make a car and it has a loose brake pedal, the auto maker ends up paying our millions. But that's another subject and that is not usually guided by safety concerns but pure greed.

 

Real estate is the same way.......houses here are still less than in other places....but prices have been steadily going up to the point where in my area almost no one will have enough money to  buy a house and many people will end up paying on one for life. 

 

Society ends up being mostly renters and leasers.

[TapperMike]

Cakewalk was in receivership (owned by a bank) for many years.  Then it was sold to Roland. Roland being a hardware only company did it's best not to mix the waters of it's hardware field into the software field. They just wouldn't release software versions of their hardware (which is what many people wanted) They also didn't aggressively pursue changes in the software industry as effectively as they could have.  The product to beat year after year is...Ableton Live.  Bitwig comes close but Bitwig is highly flawed.  Even little no name daw's like Mixcraft have started deploying sessions view.

Mixcraft, small footprint easy to operate big on features, full plugin support. It's the go to for those new to the daw world and even a few die-hards like myself.  

 

What may indeed happen is that the dinosaurs of the daw industry may die off giving rise to newer ones.  Windows 3.1 was not an industry leader. Apple, Wang, IBM and Silicon Graphics, Atari, Commodore all had larger market share and were highly specialized. When win95 hit the market it not only sold like wildfire it also replaced all the other consumer operating systems on the market...with the exception of Apple.  No professional CGI motion picture contractor would dream of using anything less then Silicon Graphics OS and software before Windows 98 or Apple OS9. Now no cgi company would even consider using the old Silicon Graphics system.

 

The old adage of "You make your decisions and then your decisions make you" is often Corporate Mantra for the upper management/administration echelon. Bad decisions are often kept because it was someone important making the decision. Even after that choice failed again and again. However sometimes the person is removed from that position and an opportunity to make what's always been wrong now right.  There may be a time in the future when some accountant gets support from someone else that the path a company is not on the right path and choose an alternative.  Sowing the seeds for that alternative may come from someone who has had experience with the alternative.

 

As for me I've made decisions to move away from various products and don't feel the lesser for it. No more steinberg, no more cakewalk, no more PT.  The only thing that would make me consider them in the future is if they consider providing something that satisfies me.  Until then the market is filled with eager daw developers working hard to earn my dollar.

[Rudi]

I dislike the subscription model. I also wont support Adobe in it and so will not upgrade from Elements.

 

I'm told that Cakewalk is Gibson owned. Maybe they'll only lease Les Pauls in future?

[starise]

Well not every shoe fits everyone...pardon my shallow comparison here...hey it's ok to go barefoot too Rudi- Point taken... I seriously doubt they will lease Les Pauls lol! But make no mistake...the president of Gibson is no stranger to either making money or making good products. And Adobe turns a profit. Software companies that can't make money are destined to failure.

 

As long as we have Mixcraft and Reaper I don't see everyone flocking to the built in payed upgrade scenerio. But I also predict a widening of differences between DAWs. If you only want/need a  basic daw and have no desire to use new technologies you won't notice or care about the gap. OTOH if you  like the goodies you can get with a top level daw, then you'll probably want to keep on the update improvement path, and at some point everything becomes obsolete.

 

I'm seeing the differences already and I think it's going to change perceptions gradually. I downloaded Reaper over the weekend to look at the routing in it. I went over it and everything is there but it just feels clunky compared to Sonar. Things aren't nearly as intuitive. I imagined myself working a project in it and I think simply using it would add considerable time to my projects. So how much is your time worth to you? To me Reaper feels like Sonar ten years ago. I was surprised BTW that it isn't free anymore? 

 

The next few years in software development should be interesting to watch. 

[Just1L]

Yeah, it kind of amazes me that it's happening and there's nothing we can really do about it. And not only that, but seen as the cool thing to do, or the way to do it. What?!? You want to buy something? Get out of here you old geezer. One day, we won't be able to go into McDonalds and buy something unless our app account for eChickiCHAT Sunny McNFahKin D's has enough cash in it.

 

Heh, I'm not worried though. I play the powerball every week.  

 

Heh, heh, better yet, maybe I should go pitch that to them right this very instant. $$$KA-JENGA$$$$

 

Edited March 19, 2015 by Just1L

[starise]

Hey Just1L......maybe we can go for a group buy on those lottery tickets More buying power.....instead of a million to one shot we could increase our odds to say....1000000 to 10 or so....hey it could happen roight? I'd have a better chance of jumping off a 7th story balcony and flying, but it's still a chance.

I dunno.....to me whether I pay monthly or for a whole year the price is the same......and I will "own" it then. The price looks a lot better monthy though

Tunesmith is absolutely right....I recently bought a cell phone and wasn't enticed by the "monthly" payments my provider offered. They say no interest...this is true, there isn't but if you add up those darned payments it equals out to be way more than the phone is worth......so I bought one somewhere else. But I'm also past 30.....way past.

Most indulgences I'm not legally or ethically allowed to partake in at the expense of either my health or my marriage or both together...nor would I want to * ahem*....albeit I'm tempted a plenty. Cigarettes are a no no...eggs and bacon will kill your heart......chocolate gives you pimples and makes you fat....so tell me what can I do? Some so called expert is sure to come out and say I can't even scratch myself. So maybe I can indulge just a little in software....I hopes

[TapperMike]

Re Microsoft Office

 

https://www.openoffice.org/Still free, Still does all the stuff that office does (sorta) in the same formats, Just not as pretty to look at. I use it for work, spread sheets, Invoices, etc, etc etc.  I've been using it since y2k even having had and lost a few computers with one note and office pre installed.

 

 

If the company I work for had adapted a more individual and organization software rental idea a few years back.. I wouldn't be the last employee waiting for that fated moment when the axe falls.  We would have been able to direct money towards development of our product and maintained interest in our product line.  We tried to develop a swf to html5 conversion tool like swiffy but it was too little too late.  The problem was we only could afford one software developer to handle the project and he (the owner) volunteered his time.  Unlike Adobe that put hundreds of developers into development of html canvas or Google who put thousands of developers to work on Swiffy.  As it stands SZ has about 2 million customers.  Many of those include corporate, ngo's schools and more. Accounts that can have up to 20,000 licenses.  Such as school districts.  Because schools reformat every year that will leave all those schools in the dark.  Our software is used in middle, high schools community colleges and universities worldwide.  Swishmax can be used to create programs running in the flashplayer environment that is a sandbox Meaning you can't use an swf to hack a computer. It's not just computer programming.  Our software is used by professors in Physics, Calculus, and of all things Molecular Biology as study aids.  When leasing software the lease also pays for...that job of mine Support.  Helping people get their software back when the computer dies or something else and installation / unlock issues.  

 

In the hardware field cars come with warranties. When the warranty expires the owner is on their own. Car breaks where do you get a part? Who fixes it? How much does it cost?  Software has a life of "as long as the intended operating system is supported and the doors stay open.  It's not like you can just pick up a slice of code after a business closes and swap the code out making the program new.  It's not like there are going to be any third party after market support agents who are going to help you.  And if any of you were mac users from the shift of os9 to osx when all of your software didn't work. or When MS inserted new protocols into Win7 as a "security"enhancement" That caused even trusted installers not to work properly. Who would fix that and make your old software work again?  Not the Operating System vendor unless if affected a huge chunk of all the software industry.  There are tonnes of issues caused by operator (user) error and viruses and other factors which can cause software not to function regardless of software brand name. And yet there is usually only one way to set things right...Contact support.

 

Support costs money, hosting for a software company that uses huge amounts of bandwidth also costs money. Site security, network administration and programming simply to fix bugs and...support also cost money.

 

Let's say you own a start up. Get capital for product development and you are operating deep in the red (because you have to pay back that capital) until you can bring a product to market.  You have to price the product according to what the market will bear.  The product is slightly successful or even hugely successful @$50 usd. you have to offer free updates and you have to develop for future upgrades while operating the day to day and paying back the venture capital.  You might be able to break even in a few years with successive upgrades.  Still the person who bought your product @50 20 years ago is still out there using the software and not ever having purchased an upgrade.  Over 20 years any money you spend on support to help the user in simply using the product has long since vanished and you are losing money on the product offering support.  I get that all the time.  I get users who bought our first product for 19 back in 98 who constantly contact support with operator error issues and have "how to use the product" questions.  If you haven't figured out what file>export means or cant remember that GotoURL means it's a link after years and years of having it be re explained to you... Maybe there is another issue at work of which isn't part of what I'm paid for as a support technician. We lose money and I'm still happy to provide information that I've provided countless times to the same person even though we've lost money over time offering support to this person.  That's the way support models work in the software field.  Keep the paid customer happy and maybe they'll buy the upgrade or send happy vibes to non customers.  As well, being a support technician is sort of working at a DMV.  There are three arsehats non purchasers who like to piss off support for fun.  After that there is maybe one person who has legitimate concerns that need to be addressed who aren't in a good mood.  Keep the happy face on, deal with the software issue don't take personal attacks as personal attacks.  You wouldn't believe what I've endured as far as cyberbullying and even death threats which required police intervention to resolve through the years.  Support technicians don't make enough money anywhere in the world for the services they provide.

[starise]

I don't see how half of the software companies in existence stay in business. TapperMike....I can see you have your hands full. 

 

There seem to be too many customers who try to recoup all or some of their cost by complaining....the squeaky wheel syndrome I'll call it. I've never been one to complain unless things are really bad and NEVER as a way to get something I didn't pay for....but it happens all the time. I'm usually the one who gets stepped on because I didn't say enough soon enough. Why someone would be be irate over software  10 years old that has been replaced is beyond me. How many companies continue to support after that long? 

 

Software is  different in that it must evolve in order to survive. There's this forced obsolscence that companies either comply with or get left in the dust.

Not only this but  competition is  fierce....if a software comany comes out with a popular product you can bet there will be something similar on the shelf from another competitor soon.

 

I am not  familar with the costs of customer support TapperMike........but I have wondered how they do it over such a long time. Thanks for that insight. I don't see how that model could continue unless they keep building the cost of support into their present and future products which must be a hard thing to do and still keep the cost down. The reason why so many companies are going to India and China for support...If we keep feeding the fish it will eventually eat us. India and China are becoming stronger every day. I don't begrudge them prosperity at all but we also need to look out for ourselves as a whole and realize that if we lay off 1000 workers it has an impact on everyone.

 

I think the single largest problem has more to do with human nature. People look out for themselves and don't realize that whats good for everyone maintains long term prosperity. Looking out for only yourself all the time doesn't consider this outcome and more importantly tends to predatory practices. Not everyone is in a position to advantage others. I'm thinking primarily of the CEOs that make these kinds of decisions. If I could keep my people I would, even if it mean't a radical change had to take place. I wouldn't sacrifice my workers to save money or pad my own pockets.

Don't get me wrong.....I look out for myself too, but it can be done constructively and not in a way that hurts other people.

[Just1L]

And if any of you were mac users from the shift of os9 to osx when all of your software didn't work. Who would fix that and make your old software work again?  

 

I remember it all too well. It was a life-saver that we could run in "classic mode" for as long as we could. Saved us a lot of immediate time and money for sure. But man, it was a headache but at least we had that option of classic mode. That was kind of my point above. We were okay because we could run in classic mode until we were set up. But, with Adobe, there will be no more options like that. Once they upgrade, you upgrade, and that takes some control of your business right out of your hands and puts it into theirs. Forced cost at their whim. shudddder…..

Edited March 20, 2015 by Just1L

[TapperMike]

Re software industry and customer base.  At least my field of software isn't as bad as music production software.  Customers will often resell software to other customers. Not only is it a headache for the software company just managing accounts but it also means less direct sales because people can buy used software and the company still has to support the user.  

 

There are a million and one zany things I have to deal with on a daily basis. Including attempts at fraud and identity theft. Sometimes it's professional attempts, sometimes it's just some joe blow trying to be a prankster and sometimes it's those people who think if they hassle me enough they'll be able to get something for free just to make them go away. Everything from people who immediately pull a chargeback after sale and then demand support for an item they no longer own to on and on and on.

[TapperMike]

Only larger companies outsource to support.  And the level of support is often equal to what they are willing to pay. While I too occasionally work off of scripts to streamline the support process and get customers back on track (I'm allocated roughly 3 minutes per support call) More often then not my knowledge and experience is far far beyond what the average copy/paste person can provide.  If it's a real challenge to me then I'm losing money as well. There are times when I require specific information of which I'll ask politely and directly. Only to have a user try and derail the conversation. The longer it takes for them to provide me with that information the longer it takes to resolve the situation.  Some are used to getting things done by bullying others into doing it. When it's a software issue through email type call support it's up to the user to provide the information so as I can isolate the problem and then follow through with the instructions I offer.  I get compliments every day more then a few times thanking me for fixing the product and providing information that is direct and easy to follow.  I also get users who I have to work through their emotional issues simply to proceed.  Things like "I understand your frustrated however as you've already witnessed taking things out on an emotional level is not resolving the issue. So long as you are fighting me personally all it will do is frustrate you more and not move us forward. The sooner you can provide me with the information I need to do my job the sooner this problem will be resolved."

[McnaughtonPark]

Reminds me of a time I prayed for patience, can't wait for God to stop answering that prayer.

[TapperMike]

Patience is my great undoing.  Had I not been patiently looking for other tech support work or patiently staying at a company which I otherwise love I'd be in a much better financial position then I am today.

[Just1L]

Just plain awesome!

 

http://www.wired.com/2015/04/dmca-ownership-john-deere/

Edited April 21, 2015 by Just1L

[TapperMike]

That scared the heck out of me.  Kubota would be wise to use this as advertising