Songwriting For A Living

[MonoStone]

I think these two things mentioned here has a lot going on with each other than most of us would expect.

I mean the 'Undeniably Hit Song' and 'Artist Singing It' equation. I've heard many songs by big artists which I've felt were just okay songs in terms of melody and songwriting but they did climb to the top of the charts because of the artist who recorded it.

I've also heard beautiful songs that I felt were undeniable hits but that didn't turn out that way.

The more and more I think about this, I feel that the general audience seem to judge music based on 'what the song or voice sounds like' . The industry sure seems to be going in that direction because they know this.

I have no idea where I'm going with this point. No frikkin idea. lol Meh

Interesting points Mahesh,

I don't know what Skylark or The S think, but personally I don't quite see things this way... well, I do a bit, sometimes, but overall I don't... Or do I? I'm not sure yet....

I mean, what is an undeniable hit? (Skylark came up with that term, so best if he tells us ).

Let's look one example - 'Mad World' by Tears For Fears... a big UK hit in the 80s. Performed and produced in a very 80s way, synths, dancey etc etc.

Covered in 2001 by Gary Jules, who performed it as a slower ballad with just vocal and a piano. Again it was a huge UK hit. And the vast majority of people buying it thought Mr Jules had written it, they didn't remember the 80s (I actually had to correct someone on Soundcloud recently who'd covered it, because he'd credited Jules as the original writer).

I reckon that makes it an undeniable hit. The core song must just be THAT good.

But also, perhaps sometimes an Undeniable Hit (Skylark! Couldn't you have come up with something with fewer letters in it, I'm sick of typing it! And now I'm sick of typing about being sick of typing it).... perhaps sometimes an Undeniable Hit.... has to take into account current trends. Only sometimes. I mean if you get the timing just right with a trend then that could make a song an Unden... U.H. ... but then again maybe that's not quite what Skylark meant, I don't know.... Personaly I like to think of a UH as a truly great song which has the potential to be a hit almost regardless of trends.

It's also true that if you give One Direction a good song and produce it well then you've got a UH because their fans are loyal and many... but again, I don't see that as a true UH... that's just a good song made into a hit by a hit artist.

UH...Uh?

Dek

Edited March 25, 2015 by MonoStone

[MonoStone]

I"m taking your post as a challenge, Dek.  I working on a new song from scratch right now that, from the get-go, I'm aiming to be a potential "hit song" in today's market, and yet still be something I can be somewhat proud of.  We'll see how it turns out and just how much I embarrass myself!  <heh-heh>

 

You know... I almost said at the time... let's start a challenge. The only reason I didn't write that was because I then realised I'd likely make a fool of myself in my own attempt. Right now I wouldn't know where to begin. I have been listening to my daughter's new fangled boom boom pop music on the gramophone... it's interesting to listen after this thread... but I still haven't got my head around what exactly makes the songs and productions sound as current as they do.

 

I'm looking forward to yours!

Edited March 25, 2015 by MonoStone

[Just1L]

My guess would be that an undeniable hit would be one that can make a lot of money. Nothing more. And currently, that is based on how it sounds compared to other songs that are currently making a lot of money.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Just1L

[M57]

My guess would be that an undeniable hit would be one that can make a lot of money. Nothing more. And currently, that is based on how it sounds compared to other songs that are currently making a lot of money.

 

 

Well then - the winner is the one who makes the most money.  You gotta have rules, right?

[Just1L]

Well then - the winner is the one who makes the most money.  You gotta have rules, right?

 

Sadly, with today's mindset, yes. But, rules are meant to be broken and I wait patiently for that day. It will come eventually. By that I don't mean eventually popular music won't make money. But hopefully, eventually, the "gotta have a perfect voice gum ball pop" mindset will subside. But even then, lets say for example a new form of Dance-Rock-Metal were to come out. The pioneers of that will be original groundbreakers. But eventually, the mindset will change to "gotta have a gravely death tone and heavy distortion that you can dance to". And eventually, people will dislike it and wait for the day the music scene changes.

 

But, I'm veering of the OP path. Writing for current artists is only one way to make a living with songwriting. There's always the music libraries and writing for movies, tv, video games, etc...

Edited March 25, 2015 by Just1L

[MonoStone]

Sadly, with today's mindset, yes. But, rules are meant to be broken and I wait patiently for that day. It will come eventually. By that I don't mean eventually popular music won't make money. But hopefully, eventually, the "gotta have a perfect voice gum ball pop" mindset will subside. But even then, lets say for example a new form of Dance-Rock-Metal were to come out. The pioneers of that will be original groundbreakers. But eventually, the mindset will change to "gotta have a gravely death tone and heavy distortion that you can dance to". And eventually, people will dislike it and wait for the day the music scene changes.

But, I'm veering of the OP path. Writing for current artists is only one way to make a living with songwriting. There's always the music libraries and writing for movies, tv, video games, etc...

I own a company making art for video games... I've asked some of my clients if they need music.... some do.... it's no gold mine though, and 'songs' are not in demand.

Maybe I should investigate deeper....

[MonoStone]

Better get goin', Dek! I've already got the music bed pretty much done for my new super-catchy killer smash-hit contemporary power-pop tune!. I just need the lyric for a half verse and bridge. Of course, I have no idea if I can even sing it yet. LOL But, I think it's at least sounding cool! <heh-heh>

Hey I didn't say I was doing one!

[Guest]

Yeah… Of course I knew I was asking for trouble the moment I decided to create the undeniable hit. What I’m talking about is a song so strong that virtually anybody working in Pop music would agree would be a smash hit. A song so strong that it could garner the attention of numerous industry insiders almost without any help from its writer(s). Such songs are very few and far between, but every once-in-a-while I believe they come along.

 

A few examples off the top o' my head...

• Every Breath You Take by The Police… A genius work… Painfully simple (even derivative), with a melody that could be used for a nursery rhyme… A lyric right out of a rhyming dictionary… And no solo! The moment I heard it I cursed myself for not having thought of it first. For my money, the most perfect Pop song of at least a decade. At least… (Were it not for McCartney, I'd probably just say "the most perfect Pop song of the latter half of the 20th century.") And I think any record exec would have seen that coming from miles away. (Never mind the perfect performance/production… I’m talking strictly about the song, the writing.)
• Right Here Waiting by Richard Marx… At first listen, I didn’t doubt for one second it would be a massive hit. The hook melody is hit-you-over-the-head undeniable. Again, a simple lyric… Effortless rhyme…
• Hold Me Now by The Thompson Twins… Of course, another soaring hook melody over just-right chord movement…
• Crazy by Gnarls Barkley… Strong, beautiful melody and quirky, intriguing lyric over simple, in-your-face chords… 

Each of these songs was undeniable, so obviously and massively strong that any number of publishing houses would have gone to war over them.

 

In my mind, an undeniable hit may indeed be a song of the moment, but not necessarily. Times and tastes change… And I don’t mean to say that a song that charts with multiple versions is one of those, either. And it has nothing to do with money. For one thing, any major chart-topper is going to make money, and lots of songs --most of them-- get there without being "undeniable". Money is after-the-fact. I’m talking about songs that would’ve unquestionably been “heard” by dozens of execs even with nothing more than a voice/piano demo (or even a piss-poor demo). 

 

Also, I am an American… A North American… With tastes —however eclectic they may or may not be— forged by my exposure… When I envision the undeniable hit, I do so within my grasp of the American music scene. In short, I'm talking Billboard Hot 100 (and the people who aim for that).

Edited March 25, 2015 by Skylark

[McnaughtonPark]

                                                                                                                                      

 

                                                                                                                                

 

                                                                                                                                      

[Just1L]

I own a company making art for video games... I've asked some of my clients if they need music.... some do.... it's no gold mine though, and 'songs' are not in demand.

Maybe I should investigate deeper....

 

I based that on offers I've seen from TAXI for music needed for video games. But of course you def could be correct in that. I'd say if you were solely writing video game music it'd be a tough road, but then again, maybe not. Hell, I don't know. I'll tell you what I do know though. I really enjoy Tom's Emotiband above.

[Guest]

                                                                                                                                      

 

                                                                                                                                

 

                                                                                                                                      

The one guitarist --the left-hande... No, the right-han... No, the lef.. No, the ri... The l...

 

Aw, forget it!

[MonoStone]

I based that on offers I've seen from TAXI for music needed for video games. But of course you def could be correct in that. I'd say if you were solely writing video game music it'd be a tough road, but then again, maybe not. Hell, I don't know. I'll tell you what I do know though. I really enjoy Tom's Emotiband above.

 

Yep, there's definitely some demand for music in video games.

[MonoStone]

Come on... can't we make the *UHbreviation catch on?

 

*UHcronym didn't sound quite as good

[Guest]

Let's assume UH catches on; Is it YOO-AITCH? Or is it just "uh"... And If it's uh, do we say "I want to write AN uh" or, "I want to write A uh" in which case we could say "uh uh," which might be interpreted as "no." 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Skylark

[MonoStone]

Just "uh" ... but you have to say it like James Brown....

 

AN 'uh!'

Edited March 25, 2015 by MonoStone

[M57]

Better get goin', Dek!  I've already got the music bed pretty much done for my new super-catchy killer smash-hit contemporary power-pop tune!.  I  just need the lyric for a half verse and bridge. Of course, I have no idea if I can even sing it yet.  LOL  But, I think it's at least sounding cool!  <heh-heh>

 

Hah! Your new super-catchy killer smash power-pop tune may have 'em tapping their feet Mr. Sage, but your UH will not fly as high in the charts as my heart-tearing tear-jerking knee-buckling power-ballad love song - carefully calculated to hit right where those 14-year-old girls have no self-control ..their dad's iTunes accounts.  Now ..where is my calculator? 

Edited March 26, 2015 by M57

[M57]

Oh, and did I mention? They're going to insist on it for the first dance at all their weddings. I'll be sitting pretty well into the 2030's.

[M57]

Oh, and did I mention? They're going to insist on it for the first dance at all their weddings. I'll be sitting pretty well into the 2030's.

 

Ut Oh.. All my evil plans are being foiled by an angst-ridden tragic lyric - bathed in betrayal, reaking of rejection and ultimately drowned in despair and hopeless heartbreak.

 

I probably shouldn't count on the wedding circuit. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by M57

[M57]

Don't forget to research the genre you choose, making sure you include all or most of the critical UH components. Here's a helpful guide:

 

Edited March 27, 2015 by M57

[Just1L]

Don't forget to research the genre you choose, making sure you include all or most of the critical UH components. Here's a helpful guide:

 

 

My favorite part of this is the length of the Jazz song. hahaha Love it.