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Gibson & Unpotted Pick Ups:


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What is Wax Potting?

Answer: When a coil has been wound it is immersed in a mixture of paraffin and bees wax to solidify the coils and help guard against microphonic feedback.

 

unpotted-
Old vintage sound as original 50′s PAF pickups. Partially microphonic (like a microphone). Expect squeals at higher volumes or higher gain.

potted-
A controlled narrower band tone. Should handle high volume/gain without squealing feedback.
 

This short demo demonstrates unpotted well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smoa8Eb-puM

 

Up until the 70’s guitar pickups were mostly unpotted. Potted pickup represented progress. So then pretty much everyone made them that way.

Ok. Unpotted Pickups haven’t been produced since the 70’s right?

 

No. Some cheaper pick-up were perhaps unpotted to save money, but more importantly some makers produce unpotted pickups as a design choice. This is at least true in later years. For example ‘Bare Knuckle’ make an unpotted pickup called ‘the Mule’.

 

Gibson also are putting unpotted pickups on more of their guitars again. Now this may be expected for ‘historically accurate re-issues’. But Gibson are putting these on new model (variants) also.

At least one identifier is the description ‘MHS’ (Memphis Historic Spec) Humbuckers.

 

The new Gibson SE-Les Paul (including a Bigsby version) hollow body. The Overview says:’ It sports a modified 1959 profile, one-piece mahogany neck and MHS unpotted alnico humbuckers.

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-es-les-paul-semi-hollow-electric-guitar#productDetail

 

A quick check revealed these guitars shipped with unpotted pickups too:

 

Dethklok Explorer

Gary Moore BFG Les Paul

50th Ann 1960 Les Paul Custom

Custom 1959 Les Paul Standard

Dicky Betts SG

Nighthawk Standard 2010

Memphis Luther Dickenson ES-335

Memphis 1963 ES-335

Memphis 1959 ES-335

 

It’s especially interesting that ES examples are hollow body electrics which have a greater propensity to feedback.

 

I would love to hear (or even better to conduct) a straightforward comparison test. I haven’t found one yet.

 

Written descriptions of tone are about as useful as a rocking horse on a stud farm.

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I hate unpotted pickups.  I've had a few guitars in the past that have them. Specifically 70's magnums and my OLP MM1 (evh copy) They are useful in a very limited situation where you want both super super extra brite shrill tone, lots of harmonic overtones and a seemingly high output.

 

Most high output pickups suffer in the treble range because they require heavier magnets and lots of windings.

This is an example of unpotted tone,,,,

 

 

Notice all the fret noise in his playing? The squeakiness of the strings. that's not simply the strings it's the microphonics of the pickups.  The pickups pick up all sorts of sounds (even those not coming from the guitar) when you are playing even at moderate levels and other sounds are happening in the room.

 

It's one thing if you are playing your guitar in an isolation booth and you want that super well defined over accentuated pick attack and all that harmonic overtones screaming through.  If you get a pair of those unpotted pickups you'll prolly need to shield the guitar electronics cavity and get special harness assemblies (wires and pots)  Bare Knuckle is a brand of pickup manufacturers who specialize in unpotted pickup systems

 

 

Notice again that it's really microphonic. Much brighter sounding then your average pickup even though in the demo the guy is playing with no pick which should make for a slightly darker tone then with a pick. Bur no its still bright with brash sounding overtones. 

 

In as far as pickups tone goes I'm squarely in the middle. I don't like high output darker pickups which require super high gain amps.  Nor do I like shrill overtly bright response with lots of string noise (though the pick attack character is nice on occasion) 

Edited by TapperMike
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I'm just surprised at the amount Gibson are issuing.

 

It makes me wonder whether they are also justifying the tonewoods claim by doing this.

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Justifying the tonewoods is a good point

 

I can see how Gibson trying to satisfy the purist market would do this for them.  The purist element in Gibson buyers make up a value that Gibson has do address.  They are the ones buying the guitar and it may be their 3rd, 4th or even 10th Gibson.  There are better single coils on the market then p90's and better ways to produce "soapbar" pickups with all the warmth and bite of a p90 but purists will have none of that.  The whole gibson neck issue was resolved long, long ago. But once again purists are consumed with aesthetics over practicality.  

 

Gibson in the past has had some very bad years.  At one point Les Paul was so infuriated with the production quality of his model he wanted his name taken off.  Gibson stopped production on Les Pauls and released "Specials" Les Paul also hated. those specials eventually became SG's.  I admire the brand now and what they've tried to achieve in recent years.  That isn't to say it's all been wine and roses over the years. 

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I like a lot of the 'minor' Gibson innovations. The adjustable nut (looks like brass) and of course the PLEK fret finishing all add up to producing better instruments.

 

I not so sure about G-Force though.

 

But regarding the tone wood angle. Scott Grove allowed that unpotted pickups are (or can be) excepted where tone woods are concerned. It may not mean that they 'work' in the way claimed by the proponents but that (at least in my interpretation) all bets are off.

 

At least most of the anger about it seems to have dissipated.

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I take Scott Grove with a grain of salt.

 

I wish my Jx16 had a mahogany body like my JX17 It would be closer to the "truth" idealism of how a jazz box "should" sound.  That doesn't mean I haven't come to appreciate the Jx16 for what it has to offer.

 

Everything effects everything to greater and lesser degrees.

For those who have a/b'd the exact same guitar with the exception of body woods it's clear as crystal.

 

I've swapped out pickups in the past.  Removing the generic cheaper pups that come with inexpensive guitars and installing duncans and dimarzio's.  I've even done the fridge magnet route to boost output from the source. 

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yes Ive seen that vid, and several more too.

 

willseasyguiter has been the most scientifically convincing but he then lets his credibility down by giving into anger & making personal attacks in a later one.

 

 

I actually take everything on board without commitment. My own experience allows that there is an acoustic tone component that remains present when amplified. It suggests tone woods are responsible but doesnt prove it.

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  • 1 month later...

I can now almost play Gibsons. After getting used to a PRS scale (25”) it was fairly easy to adjust to the Gibson (24.75”) one.

 

The narrower string spacing is still awkward though. How do you stop touching adjacent strings with the fretting hand? I have to mute pretty much everything other than the strings being plucked. Still a challenge.

 

Last month (at Nevada Music) I tried a LP Doublecut & an Epi ES-339. Though the LPs are so frustrating because of that massive heel.

Yesterday (at Andertons), a ES-390,  ES-339 & an Epi LP Florentine. These were all rather nice.

 

Returning later to the generous Jackson fingerboard was like driving down a 3 lane motorway after emerging from a bridleway.

 

15 years ago I could not adapt at all. I suppose I have changed somehow.

I know some people use both Fenders & Gibsons. How long does it take to adjust to the difference (using the whole neck)? I am guessing about an hour’s playing?

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Sometimes longer and sometimes not at all. Gibsons have two profiles. Thick rounded and thin tapered. I never liked the rounded even though it produces more punchier mid sustain then the thin ones.

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I've never been a fan of unpotted pickups. I used to swap out pickups (and other hardware) on my guitars more often than Gene Simmons changed girlfriends. As a young pup I thought the right 'sound' was everything; now, hand me anything with strings and I am happy.

 

Those old pickups were just way to "squealy" and I never really liked the tone. That is not to say that it's not possible to make a great sounding unpotted pickup. I haven't checked out the Bare Knuckles pickups so I don't have an opinion on those.

 

BTW, proud Gibson owner now for 30 years (I do agree that the big heel on the neck of my Les Paul can be a PITA at times!).

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Sometimes longer and sometimes not at all. Gibsons have two profiles. Thick rounded and thin tapered. I never liked the rounded even though it produces more punchier mid sustain then the thin ones.

 

I thought they did more than that.

I was speaking of the neck width rather than the thickness.

 

I too prefer the thinner necks, but now that I dont grip the neck it hardly matters. 

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I've never been a fan of unpotted pickups. I used to swap out pickups (and other hardware) on my guitars more often than Gene Simmons changed girlfriends. As a young pup I thought the right 'sound' was everything; now, hand me anything with strings and I am happy.

 

Those old pickups were just way to "squealy" and I never really liked the tone. That is not to say that it's not possible to make a great sounding unpotted pickup. I haven't checked out the Bare Knuckles pickups so I don't have an opinion on those.

 

BTW, proud Gibson owner now for 30 years (I do agree that the big heel on the neck of my Les Paul can be a PITA at times!).

 

After 30 years that LP must feel like a part of you.

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After 30 years that LP must feel like a part of you.

 

Yeah, I will never sell it. It held up for 15+ years of gigging more or less full time including some of the worst conditions imaginable. It's completely original and the only thing I've ever had to do was get the frets ironed once. One thing you gotta say about Gibsons; they can take a licking and keep on ticking!

 

I don't play it as much now, it's just too freakin' heavy to wear around my neck while I wrestle with my DAW.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I don't play it as much now, it's just too freakin' heavy to wear around my neck while I wrestle with my DAW.

Ain't that the killer. I've had a LP Deluxe Gold top and a '78 red wine Custom. Back in my professional days I'd go maybe...maybe 6 songs with a Les Paul before I switched to my tried and true strat. I never liked the Studio / Studio lite Les Pauls. The meat of the tone wasn't there and it felt "strange" to play. That being said I really like the new Les Paul Custom Shop Custom (especially the Peter Frampton Signature) Frampton's original LP custom was lighter then most all LP's of that era (1954) due to the quality of the old growth recycled honduran mahogany. The new LP customs have a special chambering process which lightens the weight without sacrificing the tone.

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What about the Les Paul Less+ with its thin body. I havnt played one but they look very playable without that massive heel.

 

http://www.station-musicshop.de/WebRoot/Store8/Shops/64398533/54A2/9D9A/4D2B/3D95/D4BC/C0A8/2BBC/371C/gib_lplesspgoldtop7.jpg

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I haven't played one or heard one to do a comparative analysis. The new Les Paul Supreme (florentine) is a semi hollow body and I think they sound like crap.

On the other hand Les Paul Custom Peter Frampton signatures sound amazing to my ears. It's a chambered body but not in the traditional sense. They drill a bunch of precisely positioned holes into the mahogany slab to reduce the weight without reducing the tone/sustain. It's 7.4 pounds

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I haven't played one or heard one to do a comparative analysis. The new Les Paul Supreme (florentine) is a semi hollow body and I think they sound like crap.

 

 

That is very interesting to me because I played the Epiphone version (the Florentine) and loved the sound. It might not be an 'expected' LP sound but I liked it a lot. I was seriously tempted to buy anyway.

 

I'm not familiar with Framptons work or sound, beyond the video you posted on this thread.

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For $5K those Peter Frampton LP models BETTER sound killer! I haven't had the pleasure to play one but I would never lay out those kinda bucks for a guitar unless I was making good steady money playing it. I paid about a grand for my LP Custom which was a lot of money back in the dinosaur days, but I could justify it because I was making regular money playing. It has paid for itself many many many times over. That being said, it would certainly be nice to have the disposable income to buy the guitars I want...

 

Peace,

TC

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I know I wrote a long reply for this...anyway.

@Rudi. I'd never heard of the Les Paul Less (really should get out more) So I did some digging on youtube. May be the amp settings may be the mix but not a single video could I hear the ballsy mid-lows I associate with Les Pauls. I thought they sounded fine though a little on the SG side.

@TC I remember working and saving and working and saving up for my Les Paul Custom. I thought it would change my life. It did sort of. Between all that working and saving my girlfriend left me and my playing went to hell in a handbasket because I was working too much cooking and not practicing or playing. I lost a lot of good gigging opportunities along the way. When I finally got it man that was something else. I finally got the clue that an expensive guitar no matter how nice wasn't all it took to get better (but it helped)

Financially there is no way I can afford a Frampton Les Paul. If I had that kind of money to throw at a guitar there's lots of other stuff I'd rather get first. Like the new Variax Standard from Yamaha. Which has a helluva more comfortable neck for my hands then the JTV's

Nonetheless After getting a the variax and going through everything a million times I'd still consider a Frampton les paul even though I think they've already discontinued it. Or it's special order only. I'd prolly butcher any collectors value right out of the thing. Sperzel tuners, Roller Nut, Stetsbar Trem, and last but not least individual coil taps for the pups.

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