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Soloing And What Scales To Use


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Hey guys,

 

I've been feeling kind of lost lately, in my soloing that is. There's just so many things you can do and I have no clue where to start. So I thought Id post here.

 

So when you guys solo, (If you solo), what scales do you use? And does it ultimately matter? Are you a fan of pentatonic? Aolian, Phyrgian, Phyrgian Dominant, Mixolydian, or any of the others I can't remember? Or do you guys even know what I'm talking about? xD. I'm primarily a rhythm guitar player trying to switch over to lead, and it's extremely difficult for me. I wish I had a book that taught me how to do all the different soloing techniques you can do and how to apply them, but alas I have not yet found one. So honestly this topic can be for any and all talk soloing or scales or theory related. Im curious and looking for a bit of guidance because I don't know where to start.

 

Thanks,
Zack
 

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Hi Zack,

 

Lost or feeling bad about what youre doing? Its common to go through periods of feeling useless and then elation when your playing goes well again.

 

Practicing scales shut away somewhere can be pretty miserable. Maybe you dont, but it sounds like you're in a rut.

 

I have a few quick suggestions.

 

1/ Find someone to jam with. Another guitarist or bassist. Keys or even a drummer. Maybe find a jam night at a nearby bar. Preparing to go public can really inject some energy into your practice, and more importantly, order your thoughts.

 

2/ Get a project. compose a tune & record it. Use it as a backing track. Practice along to the radio. A new song every few minutes will test how quick you can find your way into it.

 

3/ If 1 or 2 are out for now. Formulate a different practice routine. Practice something simple. Something you know and dont have to struggle to play. In other words try to enjoy your playing. A major scale is fine. Some blues is fine. Try to put some feeling into it.

 

I rarely practice just scales, but I tend to use mixolydian and dorian mode more often when I do. The reason is simple, it fits more tunes than most other stuff.

I like to play along to a chord pattern and change the scale along with the chords. Its a change from modal playing and more like a jazz approach. It also gets you thinking.

 

Good luck with breaking out of this slump & finding some purpose. Let us know how you do.

 

Rudi

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Hi Zack,

 

Lost or feeling bad about what youre doing? Its common to go through periods of feeling useless and then elation when your playing goes well again.

 

Practicing scales shut away somewhere can be pretty miserable. Maybe you dont, but it sounds like you're in a rut.

 

I have a few quick suggestions.

 

1/ Find someone to jam with. Another guitarist or bassist. Keys or even a drummer. Maybe find a jam night at a nearby bar. Preparing to go public can really inject some energy into your practice, and more importantly, order your thoughts.

 

2/ Get a project. compose a tune & record it. Use it as a backing track. Practice along to the radio. A new song every few minutes will test how quick you can find your way into it.

 

3/ If 1 or 2 are out for now. Formulate a different practice routine. Practice something simple. Something you know and dont have to struggle to play. In other words try to enjoy your playing. A major scale is fine. Some blues is fine. Try to put some feeling into it.

 

I rarely practice just scales, but I tend to use mixolydian and dorian mode more often when I do. The reason is simple, it fits more tunes than most other stuff.

I like to play along to a chord pattern and change the scale along with the chords. Its a change from modal playing and more like a jazz approach. It also gets you thinking.

 

Good luck with breaking out of this slump & finding some purpose. Let us know how you do.

 

Rudi

I've got number 1 down. I have a friend who knows quite a bit about all the different scales. We jam together quite often and its pretty great when we do.

 

As for number two, that's my biggest slump Id say. Ive practed creating riffs and playing them for so many years that Im confident in my abilities in that department. But When I go to solo I get stuck. Even learning solos by other people. I never know if Im doing it correctly and it bothers me. So its even harder trying to write one. I know a decent amount of music theory, but Im no expert. So its hard for my to pick and choose what scales I work with.

 

One a quick side note, there is one tool I use and so does my jam buddy that has helped us tremendously and it may come as a shock to some...

Rocksmith 2014

 

I assume you may know what it is, but its basically a game that teaches you almost everything you need to know about guitar. Its how I learned the majority of my scale forms. If youre interested I suggest checking it out. Its basically Guitar Hero meets real guitar. Because you use your real guitar.

 

Number three, is what I usually do. My only problem is Im not sure what Im doing correctly and incorrectly as I stated before, so I get frustrated easily. Its like, the solos I want to create, use a lot of different pull off techniques and advanced things, and Im not sure where to start to learn how to do and apply those techniques.

 

Thanks for the advice. I'll be sure to keep you guys updated, with some recordings for you all too maybe.

 

Best of luck,

 

Zack

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Are you hung up on technique?

Precisely

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I can only suggest simplifying your practice. It sounds like you are overwhelmed by it.

 

I reiterate that a major scale is good to practice as it can be adapted so easily.

 

Part of the way I used to teach was to use the major scale as a key to others. I even did some tutorials on it here once. I'll have a look for them now.

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No. It looks like John has taken down all guitar articles/tutorials. I can PM him if needs be.

 

Its probably not neccessary as you are obviously pretty advanced anyway, and my ones were aimed at earlier leaners.

 

Essentially my method is to extract other modes & scales from the major scale. Doing things this way is initially confusing but it will save you from learning several different types of fingering for each scale/mode.

 

If you can play 2 octaves of a major scale, you can extract minor, dorian, mixolydian etc. from it. Maybe you know this?

 

If not, here is an example:

 

Play 2 octaves of the C major scale. To extract the Dorian mode from it do the following:

 

Begin playing one full tone up from C, which is D. Continue playing the scale, this is D, E, F, G, A, B, C (D) and stop at the D octave. You have just played the Dorian Mode in the key of D.

 

The point is you have used a familiar scale to play a less familiar one. You can use fingering you have already learned. The only difference is that you begin & end from a different point within the major scale. In this example 'D'.

 

To figure this out when you need it, you need to reverse the thinking. In other words, if you have to play Dorian in the key of 'A', then the major scale you need for this begins one whole tone down from 'A'. This is 'G' so as long as you play notes from the scale of G major, you will be actually be playing all the correct notes for 'A' Dorian Mode.

 

The other guys in the band will be playing in D obviously. You will have to end your phrasing on one of the notes (D F A) from Dm to finish though.

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I never know if Im doing it correctly and it bothers me. 

 

If it sounds good, and how you want it to sound, then you've done it correctly. Unless you're getting graded for a school project on proper scales, there is no incorrect way to do it, as long as it sounds good.

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No. It looks like John has taken down all guitar articles/tutorials. I can PM him if needs be.

 

Its probably not neccessary as you are obviously pretty advanced anyway, and my ones were aimed at earlier leaners.

 

Essentially my method is to extract other modes & scales from the major scale. Doing things this way is initially confusing but it will save you from learning several different types of fingering for each scale/mode.

 

If you can play 2 octaves of a major scale, you can extract minor, dorian, mixolydian etc. from it. Maybe you know this?

 

If not, here is an example:

 

Play 2 octaves of the C major scale. To extract the Dorian mode from it do the following:

 

Begin playing one full tone up from C, which is D. Continue playing the scale, this is D, E, F, G, A, B, C (D) and stop at the D octave. You have just played the Dorian Mode in the key of D.

 

The point is you have used a familiar scale to play a less familiar one. You can use fingering you have already learned. The only difference is that you begin & end from a different point within the major scale. In this example 'D'.

 

To figure this out when you need it, you need to reverse the thinking. In other words, if you have to play Dorian in the key of 'A', then the major scale you need for this begins one whole tone down from 'A'. This is 'G' so as long as you play notes from the scale of G major, you will be actually be playing all the correct notes for 'A' Dorian Mode.

 

The other guys in the band will be playing in D obviously. You will have to end your phrasing on one of the notes (D F A) from Dm to finish though.

That helps out a lot. I would still like to learn the fingerings for each scale, but this is a good way for me to wrap my head around it.

 

I have another question though that's kind of off topic. Now I understand the way music theory works, except when I play guitar I couldn't always tell you exactly what I was doing, its like second nature and I just do it. I'll try my best to explain, I apologize if I confuse anyone.

 

So lets say Im playing in a B Phrygian scale starting on the 7th fret of the Low E string. Okay so Im playing in the scale form, and I understand how to solo within that mode, but if I want to move around the neck to different modes or keys how do I know what keys and modes I can use? The piece I have that I do this with is kinda a ballad instrumental and its in the Key of E, but I can play in the B Phrygian scale and it works fine. I start on the 7th fret of the G string (E) and work from there and the whole scale seems to work. But I don't know where Im free to move around without hitting a sour note and ruining the flow. I hope this makes sense, if not I'll make a recording to better explain. It gets boring to the ear when staying in one position on the neck.

 

Thanks,

 

Zack

 

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If it sounds good, and how you want it to sound, then you've done it correctly. Unless you're getting graded for a school project on proper scales, there is no incorrect way to do it, as long as it sounds good.

I just don't want to start any bad habits. Im the kind of person that if its explained to me how to do something I can perfect it in a day after several hours. But that's a good way to look at it. Thanks!

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So lets say Im playing in a B Phrygian scale starting on the 7th fret of the Low E string. Okay so Im playing in the scale form, and I understand how to solo within that mode, but if I want to move around the neck to different modes or keys how do I know what keys and modes I can use? The piece I have that I do this with is kinda a ballad instrumental and its in the Key of E, but I can play in the B Phrygian scale and it works fine. I start on the 7th fret of the G string (E) and work from there and the whole scale seems to work. But I don't know where Im free to move around without hitting a sour note and ruining the flow. I hope this makes sense, if not I'll make a recording to better explain. It gets boring to the ear when staying in one position on the neck.

 

Thanks,

 

Zack

 

Zack

 

7th fret G string is D not E

 

and D is not in the Phrygian scale of B. So you either mean the 9th fret (E) or the 8th (D#).

 

It never occurred to me to use this key-scale combination. If it works though, go for it.

 

I'm puzzled at the notion of being stuck at one position on the neck. Why cant you just continue to use Phrygian elsewhere on the fretboard? If you havnt learned the finger positions just figure out where the notes are and practice them. up & down the fingerboard.

 

Here is a vid I came across showing Phrygian. It demonstrates it the way I explained Dorian.

 

 

I get the impression that you are ambitious, full of energy and ready to take on anything.

 

Really, Just1L had the best advice. Trust your ears. If it sounds right then it is right. No-one is going to stand up and shout 'Hey you just played a wrong note'. Mistakes aside, if it sounds great to you, it will sound great to most everyone.

 

Musical rules are not rules at all. They are guidelines. Ragtime broke almost all the rules, and now Jazz has formalised most of those broken rules into new rules. It will be broken again. Its part of how music moves forward.

 

From Phryian you can move on to any other scale. If you are using the scale over E then I assume you mean Emajor. In that case change to any scale that can be used in E major. It will work fine and the change will probably sound dramatic.

 

good luck

Rudi

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Zack

 

7th fret G string is D not E

 

and D is not in the Phrygian scale of B. So you either mean the 9th fret (E) or the 8th (D#).

 

It never occurred to me to use this key-scale combination. If it works though, go for it.

 

I'm puzzled at the notion of being stuck at one position on the neck. Why cant you just continue to use Phrygian elsewhere on the fretboard? If you havnt learned the finger positions just figure out where the notes are and practice them. up & down the fingerboard.

 

Here is a vid I came across showing Phrygian. It demonstrates it the way I explained Dorian.

 

 

I get the impression that you are ambitious, full of energy and ready to take on anything.

 

Really, Just1L had the best advice. Trust your ears. If it sounds right then it is right. No-one is going to stand up and shout 'Hey you just played a wrong note'. Mistakes aside, if it sounds great to you, it will sound great to most everyone.

 

Musical rules are not rules at all. They are guidelines. Ragtime broke almost all the rules, and now Jazz has formalised most of those broken rules into new rules. It will be broken again. Its part of how music moves forward.

 

From Phryian you can move on to any other scale. If you are using the scale over E then I assume you mean Emajor. In that case change to any scale that can be used in E major. It will work fine and the change will probably sound dramatic.

 

good luck

Rudi

Crap I apologize, I got my fingerings messed up. How embarrassing... And my knowledge of scales and theory is very mixed. I apologize for any confusion. Thanks for the help and Ive been working on it a lot

 

Zack

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We all get confused. Dont worry about it.

 

Glad to help. If you havent got enough info here, or I misunderstood & didnt give you what you needed. Just shout. Ok?

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We all get confused. Dont worry about it.

 

Glad to help. If you havent got enough info here, or I misunderstood & didnt give you what you needed. Just shout. Ok?

Will do. Thank

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  • 6 months later...
  • Noob

Forget the scales for a minute. Try to sing a "solo" over the rhythm section and then play it on the guitar. I found that breathing and working around a melodic "idea" helps me get outside the technique blockdowns

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