Is My Song My Song Or Not?

[mawr2016]

Hi, I wrote a song back in 1993 while on a camping trip with my older brother and a few other people. He brought a guitar and melodica with him.  I played the melodica during the trip and I made up a song.

 

It's not a great song or anything and was one of the very first I'd ever written. I wrote the lyrics about all the people who were there, they were witty funny lyrics.

 

I asked them all at the time if they liked the lyrics and espicially the ones I'd wriiten about them. They give me input if they liked them or not and I may have changed some lyrics if everyone said they didn't like any.

 

I'd been singing the song a while and got the melody good then asked my brother to play some chords to it and to help me record it.

 

My brother made up the chord sequence and added the bass to it and the drums, he also did the recording of it because he had a 4 track recording studio.

 

We all wrote camping songs and were going to do an album, my older brother had the most songs, my twin brother had a few but I just had the one.

 

Years later and my twin brother has now passed away 2 years ago. My older brother wants to do the camping album again and when we were talking about this he was refering to my song as 'our' song. we have just had a big discusiion about this and he says that because he made up the chord sequence which made a key change and it had a definite effect on the way I sang the song that he contributed towards it and it is our song.

 

My look on it was I asked him to play chords that fitted and at no time did I think the song was going to become ours instead of mine. If I Had been aware of this I would have prevented him from making up the chords that affected my song. I've told him this and he says that that was obvious and he can't understand why I don't think of it as our song.

 

He did the chords, the bass the drums. He even mentioned that because he had played so many instruments and wrote it with me if the song ever sold he would probably get a bigger % than me from any money made.

 

It's not even that good a song but I feel I've been disapointed because when I asked him to do some chords I was unaware that in his mind he was now writing the song with me. He even said that he may have mentioned some lyric changes that I added but that is definitely incorrect.

 

So is it my song or our song. Is it words and music by me and music by him?

 

What are the rules concerning copyright in this situation?

[mawr2016]

P.S. he told me that his new plan is to rerecord and rearange all the camping songs on his own, my twin brothers (who has passed away) and my 1 song (ours as he says).

 

He said that if the album ever made any money that the amount I would be entitled to would probably only come to about .5% (half a percent). then went on to say that what we were talking about was about the principle and that he would probably give me the other .5%

 

 

[mawr2016]

Thanks for the reply.. The song has been recorded. we have the recording of it. At that time I had never recorded any of my own songs. It was great that my brother helped me and I learned a lot while we did it. It is just disappointing that he now regards it as his song as well.

 

His opinion is that it was obvious he had collaborated and that it was a joint song??

 

Good luck to him if he redoes them and makes anything. I'm not going to fall out I just wanted to know for sure what is what. If the copyright laws say that it is our song and he is correct then fair enough.

[john]

Hey

 

Ouch. Percentage issues aside (interesting that he has the money side all worked out), he has put the cart before the horse.

 

Before getting into the who owns what side, there is the issue of what it could do to your relationship. You might want to work something out for those reasons. Not that you should have to, it is just a consideration. Unlike Tom I think that by the letter of the law your brother is wrong, but like Tom I think 1) He's your brother and 2) The chances of you making money from your song is almost negligible. In fact the cahnces of the album making money are almost negligible. A band has a better chance of winning the lottery than becoming successful, and that is with a full band working on getting success and working to learn how to make their band successful. No budget for promoting your album? Even if you have the best songs and best recordings using starts to record the songs.... it almost certainly won't make enough to cover the cost to make it.

 

What you and your brother have is more likely to fall under what they call a "vanity" project. ie  you are doing it because you want to "put out an album" as much for sentimental reasons as anything else, not to build a music career. Nothing wrong with that, but it is better that you call a spade a spade.

 

In song copyright terms, the fact is that the parts of the song that are copyrightable, are the melody and the lyrics... only. Chords, key changes etc, fall under arrangement. You are based in Wales, I think you said in your intro post? In which case it falls under UK laws. Song copyright is managed by PRS (Performing rights society). Songs do not need to be registered anywhere in the UK 9though if you release music on the internet it is wise to register them with the US copyright office as that is the largest English speaking market place. In the UK, copyright exists at the time of writing. Recordings are governed by MCPS.

 

Some bands divide ownership equally, like Queen, I believe, others don't (like the Beatles), but that is because that is how they each view "writing". In legal terms, those who write the words and the melody are the song writers. Those who contribute to the arrangement (such as chords) are arrangers. Those who perform on a recording are entitled to a share of the recording profits unless they waive it, even if they accept a fee... and on it goes.

 

I am not a lawyer. My advice only comes from experience. You should be able to get exact legal advice from an Ents lawyer, either privately or go through the Musician's Union or PRS.... if you go down that route.

 

What i would consider doing is explaining to your brother what the copyrightable parts of a song are, and that the writers of those parts are the songwriters, but that you do value his input to the song and if it is that important to him then you will in some way share the writing credits to the song. What level is up to you.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Cheers

 

John

[mawr2016]

Absolutely John, I don't expect any money to be made out of these. It's the fact that he wants to say it's his song too... it's the principle..

 

He has written to me defending himself but slipped up and mentioned that: 'A melody line can be sufficient to define a copyright.'

 

Well I had completely finished my song, got the melody sorted than asked him to help me fit some chords to it.

 

What he did with the song was his arrangement, his remix, I agree to this but it is 100% my song.

 

The melody was never changed. I had finished my song before I asked him to fit the chords to it.

[mawr2016]

Hi again, my brother had emailed me and has written:

 

[[[Can chords and beats be copyright?

The legals are:

    Is it original? If there’s evidence it’s been done before it can’t be copyright.
                          Yes, my chord sequence is original, it has a very unusual key change that's probably never been done before.

                          Most chord sequences are NOT original.

    Is it a copy? A judge will decide if it’s substantially similar and a copy.]]]

 

My point is that I had finished my song, the lyrics and melody was completed. I asked him to put a chord sequence to it, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that he was helping me to write my song and would claim it to be 'our song' instead of 'my song'.

 

for over 20 years he has referred to this song as 'my camping song'. now he has these plans to do a new camping album he referred to it last night as 'our song' and I was in shock at this. 

 

he said that we argued about this years ago a few months after we'd recorded it. I don't remember this but the fact that he has referred to it all these years as 'my song' must show that I won the argument.

 

I never asked him to help write my song. I worked for hours getting it right. then I declared that I had it finished and just wanted some chords to fit it. he keeps going on about his unusual key change. If I was aware that letting him add that he would then claim it as his song too I would never have let him add it.

[mawr2016]

Personally, I see absolutely no point in pursuing this further. I don't really care who's right. I care what makes the most sense going forward. That being said, I get the distinct impression that you've already decided.

 

I don't understand your way of thinking

 

If you had written a song and someone else was declaring that it was also their song would you not want to find out if they are correct or not?

 

Don't worry this isn't a huge fall out or anything, my brother and I argue quite regularly

[The S]

Um, it's not that difficult.

 

Were there chords from the beginning or not? Did you write the chords?

 

From what I understand, you wrote a melody and lyrics, and your brother added chords to that, correct?

 

Music, melody and lyrics is what makes up a song. (In most cases) So I think it's crystal clear that the two of you wrote the song together, hence a collaboration. 

 

I think what's hard for you to accept is the fact that you only thought you'd get some help from your brother but instead got a co-writing brother, but again I have to say, from what I've read, and this is my personal opinion, your brother is correct in this case. Unless I've misunderstood something.

 

If you ask someone to help you out with an unfinished song and they add to the final composition, (not production) they always have a right to claim a bit of co-writing credit. And they should. This is a fact we all face. To get rid of the problem, be sure you write it 100% yourself next time and there'll be no hassle about it.

 

Just a tip.

 

Hope it works out good for you two.

 

Cheers,

 

S

[mawr2016]

I've just had an email from my brother and he is upset because he brought the melodica and guitar with us to the camping trip and encouraged me to write a song (because I hadn't written any for the album). He says that he was playing the chords as I wrote the melody and that we did it together. His opinion is that his chords made the song highly original and that no other song in the history of pop music has a chord sequence like it.

 

He also says that when I was writing the lyrics that I kept asking him what he thought and he give me input what lyrics sounded good or not. 

 

Thinking back I do remember at the beginning of the song that I wrote some words and the melody and he probably did join in with his guitar and added the chord sequence. The chord sequence was probably added before I had finished writing the words.

 

I just want to know for sure if it's my song or our song..

[john]

As we were not there, we can't say. S does have a very valid point... it comes down to how you view things... like Queen or like the Beatles. If the chords do indeed contribute something completely original then theyare the copyrightable item too.

 

To square it in your head... is the song complete with your brothers chords? Does it sound better? If the collaboration was worthwhile and resulted in a better, more complete song, then I would consider it a successful collaboration and that you wrote the lyrics (50% of the write)  and that you co-wrote the music (25% of the write each). As your brother did the rest of the arrangement (and performance?) the recording would be his.

 

Just food for thought

[The S]

I chimed in FWIW.

[mawr2016]

 is the song complete with your brothers chords? Does it sound better? If the collaboration was worthwhile and resulted in a better, more complete song, then I would consider it a successful collaboration and that you wrote the lyrics (50% of the write)  and that you co-wrote the music (25% of the write each). As your brother did the rest of the arrangement (and performance?) the recording would be his.

 

hi, the song is complete with his chords, I don't know if it would have sounded better with other chords or not. It does sound good but it's not one of my best songs because it's one of the first I ever wrote.

 

When we did the recording, I did the singing and the Keyboards, had full say in these. my brother did the guitar, bass and drums. We both contributed to the arrangement, deciding what went where. I had a lot of input with his guitar parts also. he did the mix.

 

We have decided now that it is my song, but because he contributed with the chords that he had a part in it so: words & music by me. Arranged by him (but the arrangement is part of the song). 

 

I will tell him that I have (50% of the lyrics write)  and that he co-wrote the music (25% of the music write each)

Edited August 23, 2015 by mawr2016

[john]

I'm glad you guys got it worked out to both of your satisfaction and that you are both still talking!