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@jenellegarrett, thanks for the help. I'm not really looking to become a DJ but I will take a look at your site. Cheers!

 

@starise,

 

Thank you for that piece of info, I took a quick glance at one of the videos and it looks very good! Your DAW is now a chameleon!? Haha. I'm going with a hands on approach to learning new skills. For example, if I want to create a cool a hip hop drum beat then I go online and search for free tutorials on making a hip hop beat, I watch what they do and if I like the sound of it I apply it to my own beat. This way, I'm productive and learning new skills at the same time :)

 

I have found a few LogicProX tutorials on youtube so I'm regularly following those videos in my free time.

 

Thanks again for your help, Starise.

 

Ken

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17 hours ago, ImKeN said:

Thank you for that piece of info, I took a quick glance at one of the videos and it looks very good! Your DAW is now a chameleon!? Haha. I'm going with a hands on approach to learning new skills. For example, if I want to create a cool a hip hop drum beat then I go online and search for free tutorials on making a hip hop beat, I watch what they do and if I like the sound of it I apply it to my own beat. This way, I'm productive and learning new skills at the same time :)

 

This sounds like a very good approach. There are things I'm picking up now that make me want to re visit mixes I made awhile back. Not sure if Logic includes drum replacement. Sonar has it. I can take a whimpy drum sound and replace it with something HUGE. Since this isn't usually my genre I don't do it often, but I love playing with this stuff! 

 

When it comes to drums, another thing I've done, that was from a recommendation over on the Cakewalk site, is buy EZ player from Toontrack. EZ player will route drum midi loops to any drum engine. I typically use software drum programs instead of drum loops in acid or rex format. EZ player is also a drum construction platform with multiple tracks.

 

 

I have Addictive drums 2, BFD 2, BFD ECO, Session Drummer, at least 5 drum kits in my NI Komplete. I can take ANY midi drum loop, load it into EZ player and route it to ANY one of my drum kits. Since midi drum software companies don't map their kits all the same, having a program to "centralize" all drums is amazing!  For a short time you can get all the midi drum loops from looploft for only 81.00! 

 

Probably TMI for you right now. Something to consider later maybe.

 

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Hi Ken

 

When I was young I just experimented with little foundation in knowledge, and emulated the approach and techniques of other mix engineers. It wasn't until I was older that I reapproached mixing based upon an understanding of what I was doing to sound. In fact, when I reapproached mixing I had a far, far better understanding of what sound was, and what is looked like. It made a world of difference.

 

I found that training my ears was, of course, very important. But the big difference for me was in visualising sound, and visualising what I was doing to sound, with every tweak and every effect.

 

Effects and processors can do quite complex things to sound across 3 aspects: amplitude, in the time domain and amplitude in the frequency domain. Use DAW tool spectrum analysis to help with understanding frequency domain, and use a wave editor to understand the time domain.

 

I found using 4 test wave forms helped with time domain effects and processing, including EQ. I used sine, square, triangle and saw. To help with getting what was going on in the frequency domain I tried both known wave forms at mixed frequencies mixed together and white/pink noise. Each had different benefits. On top of that I learned and understood the maths involved... but that was because I was learning about designing digital and analogue effects! So I don't recommend most people fo this!. I also learned what theoretically Each effect and treatment should do in the digital and analogue domain and the limitations of electronic circuitry.

 

All that did improve my understanding. It helped me visualise what is going on, whether that is cutting an EQ hole in a pad to allow other instruments to cut through, or applying a chorus effect etc. One of the reasons I love Isotope tools is their visualisation.

 

My point here (yes there is one) is that anything that improves understanding is good. Experimentation using your ears is necessary, an absolute minimum... trial and error. But you can greatly improve the speed and accuracy if your understanding of what is going on is developed in parallel.... and as part of the experimentation. Simple waves like sine, square, triangle and saw make visual change pretty obvious. Different waves also let you see the effect that quicker transitions can have.

 

I realise few would go to the lengths I did, but it doesn't mean doing some of what I did wouldn't be very useful. This at least allows you to experiment with more focus, and with the ability to improve your learning.

 

On mixing itself, times have changed (and with recent development come full circle). When I started mixing there was no automation. Ok perhaps on very high end Neve desks. Mixes had to be rehearsed. Group faders were essential, as were trainee engineers to manage sections of faders. You learned your mix much like playing a musical instrument. It introduced another performance element and level of variation mix to mix. Latest mixing control systems seem to be reintroducing this as a feature. I always enjoyed that, it has to be said.

 

These days you can control and automate your mix to a fine level if detail. All the more reason to understand your console knobs, faders and switches, and the effects and processors you use from VSTs to console EQ.

 

Testing is best done using test signals (many consoles can generate them) and by using reference recordings. Reference recordings are essential for getting to know your system, especially when getting to know the effects of amplifier and monitors on a recording. You know how your reference recordings will sound on different systems, so you can work out how your new mix sould sound (ball park) in order to achieve a similar balance on other systems... Moore of an issue when you do your own mastering.

 

I hope this rambling is of some use! Lol

 

Cheers

 

John 

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21 minutes ago, john said:

Testing is best done using test signals (many consoles can generate them) and by using reference recordings. Reference recordings are essential for getting to know your system, especially when getting to know the effects of amplifier and monitors on a recording. You know how your reference recordings will sound on different systems, so you can work out how your new mix sould sound (ball park) in order to achieve a similar balance on other systems... Moore of an issue when you do your own mastering.

 

Great info John. Regarding reference recordings. here is an example of a plug in that can take your favorite band finished mix and compare it with your own tracks. There might be a free one out there. I  use Ozone Insight because it also shows frequency and stereo image. I haven't been comparing to masters lately because I can't find any that are a good fit for me. If I wanted to, say, have a mix that sounded like Brianna, I could load it and compare at the same db.

 

Though Mcompare isn't injecting reference tones it allows a person to directly compare masters.

 

 

Edited by starise
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Wow! I like the way this thread keeps building up with more and more information on production/mixing/mastering, advice! Thanks to everyone, of course [smiley=hippy.gif]

 

 

@john, that was a lot to take in but I enjoyed it. I'm still training my ears to pick up general muddiness in a track right now but what you said about visualizing the different types of sound has got me curious. I'm also looking up the difference between pink and white noise right now, you've exposed me to a whole different world of sounds and I'm loving' it! Im gonna look up the waves, sine, square, triangle and saw, next.

 

I don't have the monitors for mastering atm, I'll focus on mixing sounds for a while.

 

Thanks a ton :)

 

Ken

 

 

@starise,

10 hours ago, starise said:

Probably TMI for you right now. Something to consider later maybe.

 

Yes, I will definitely consider all the options for quality plugins later on - I need to get my basic knowledge up a whole lot more so I can understand what I'm doing! Haha

 

Mcompare sounds really interesting, though! I'll probably need it for mastering my own stuff in the near future.

 

Thanks man,

 

Ken

 

 

 

Edited by ImKeN
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I seen this and thought it would be relavent to this discussion. One way to learn mixing is to listen to truly good mixes and emulate them.

 

Yeah, this is a pitch from iZotope to look at their wares. Admittedly they have great plug ins, especially for mastering work. You can get good mastering plug ins from plenty of other sources too i.e. T-Racks. 

 

Still, these are some finest of the fine mixes :) If you could develop these kinds of mixing chops, you could probably land a decent job in a decent studio.

 

https://www.izotope.com/en/community/blog/izotope-news/2017/03/5-songs-that-are-brilliantly-mixed-and-mastered.html?utm_medium=Email&utm_source=MailChimp&utm_campaign=2017-03+Master+the+Mix&utm_content=MPB1+Oz7Adv+NeutronAdv&utm_term=Bump+5

 

iZotope offer a free mixing guide as a .pdf download. Highly recommended.

 

https://www.izotope.com/content/izotope/en/support/support-resources/guides/mixing-with-izotope.html

Edited by starise
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On 2017/3/24 at 2:10 AM, starise said:

iZotope offer a free mixing guide as a .pdf download. Highly recommended.

 

This is VERY helpful! Thanks, @starise :rolleyes:

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

i just finished my first album.  i did everything myself and learned from scratch (massive number of google searches and dummies book on logic) using only the included plug-ins with logic, though i did end up relying on izotope's cheap ($100) de-clicker and de-noiser plugin pack (very helpful for me, unfortunately) but they (and izotope's demo de-clacker plugin)  were the only third-party plugins in i used.  also, i got most of my sounds out of my nord stage.   i kind of wish i had opted for the ($300) RX6 package from izotope . . . 

 

here's a couple of my videos. unfortunately obviously i cannot claim that i was able to master the process doing the above . . . but oh well . . .

 

today:

https://youtu.be/uMxR8BTg3Sk 
and where destiny sings:
https://youtu.be/WwYXBgnUbNM

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  • 1 month later...

@jonmathews, I'm pretty late with this reply but the quality of your recordings are so clear and clean. Congratulations on your first album, man. You're pretty inspiring!

 

Thanks for sharing your story :hippy:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Agreed – the recordings are clean and clear, and the videos are imaginative for the purpose intended.  Especially in the second case, I felt that I was walking through a well-curated photographic exhibit at an art museum while I listened to an interesting piece of music by an artist whose voice (and, songwriting and performance sentiments) remind me strongly of Chris DeBurgh.

 

Most importantly, both lyrics (and their accompanying musical presentation) kept making me think.  This is a series of very interesting observations about the human condition (if you will pardon that hackneyed expression), cleverly told, and accompanied by visual images that also support the message.

 

In short, I think that you well deserve to be very proud of what you have accomplished here.

 

- - - - -

 

"And, as for 'gear,' don't let 'em talk you into spending too much!"  The music-equipment industry is always geared towards making you feel dis-satisfied about anything that you own, and maybe to feel a little-bit guilty that "you, you poor thing, couldn't afford to" ... (never will they say, "chose not to!") ... spend more money.  You spent your money wisely and you came up with an excellent, very professional result.

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Starting from scratches will do you no good, but if you have a basic/intermediate idea then you will make it.

First you will need the proper tools, you can ask allot of people/shop/and professional services to regarding what you'll need/

Then you get a class or now a days Youtube, and you can add allot of tutorial online.

 

Example:

http://www.wikihow.com/Mix-Songs

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  • 3 weeks later...

Some DAWs have mix "scenes". This allows you to make multiple versions of a mix. This is very helpful if you've worked long hours on a song and don't want to risk doing something you might regret to the mix.. Sonar has  scenes and also something called "lenses". I would imagine Logic and pro tools probably have something similar. 

 

A mix scene stores everything and I mean everything as it was in the mix. By taking these snapshots of scenes you have a lot of liberty to play around with no worry about loosing something important. Simply revert back to a previous scene or use the scenes for comparison. 

 

I just updated my Studio One and haven't yet checked to see if it has anything like that. 

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"Pursuing this same thought ..."

 

If you were to ask me, "what is 'the number-one misconception about The Creative Process?™'" then I would answer:  "Venus."

 

I mean, "there she Is ... absolutely beautiful, absolutely starkers, popping up from nothing more than an oyster shell on the beach."

 

If only it were actually this easy.

 

The actual "creative process," I think, is a process of decisions, all-but-one of which are destined to remain invisible to the audience so that the final work-product will indeed appear to all of them to be: "magic."

 

Also:  as an "original creator," you in fact probably will not turn out to be "the last creative contributor" to the version that finally hits the streets.  You simply have to be the bringer of the first original spark ... and, in doing so, yours is a priceless and original contribution.  (Be happy, therefore, to freely share that spark, when and if the time comes.)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeah I've tried man.  I've watched um... palanske's place? (I think I'm getting the name close but wrong) and Recording Revolution, I've talked to real producers, I'm almost just convinced I suck at it lol  Or don't have the concentration or... more like I HYPER concentrate and don't mean to or something.  if you find anything good that makes it really "click" for you, let me know cause no matter how much I watch Graham (I think that's his name) or any other teachers online I still wind up just... so far from any semblance of correct.  I end up making congruency out of mistakes.  

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/28/2017 at 2:12 AM, symphonious7 said:

palanske's place?

 

Pensado's Place. I love that channel, he gives lots of cool production tips and tricks and the interviews are very insightful as well :)

 

I generally look for specific production technique videos as I'm producing a song, and I watch 3-4 video tutorials at a time to see the technique that they all generally agree on and try to use that in my own music. Most youtube producers are not professionals, so I have to be extra careful not to absorb the wrong information.

 

I watch a good number of youtube producers but Pansado's Place, Produce Like A Pro and Point Blank Music School are generally my favorite youtube channels to watch.

 

Ken

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1 minute ago, ImKeN said:

 

Pensado's Place. I love that channel, he gives lots of cool production tips and tricks and the interviews are very insightful as well :)

 

I generally look for specific production technique videos as I'm producing a song, and I watch 3-4 video tutorials at a time to see the technique that they all generally agree on and try to use that in my own music. Most youtube producers are not professionals, so I have to be extra careful not to absorb the wrong information.

 

I watch a good number of youtube producers but Pansado's Place, Produce Like A Pro and Point Blank Music School are generally my favorite youtube channels to watch.

 

Ken

I was really in to Graham from Recording Revolution for a while, but honestly I'm not sure that guy's the best teacher anymore.  At first I really felt he had a lot to offer, but after further examination I started to get the feeling he puts out videos just to put out videos and reiterates the same stuff a lot.  I'll check point blank music school, I definitely could use some more knowledge.  

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On 7/27/2017 at 3:40 PM, HoboSage said:

Another thing to keep in mind is that there's a big difference between listening to a song and critically listening to a recording.  No doubt there a lot of things we and others doing what we do will hear as "wrong" with our mixes, that those who are just listening to the song won't even notice.  Though, of course, we can keep that in mind all we want and our mixes will still drive us nuts.  Yep.  We are doomed.  i'm not really complaining though.   :)

 

 

I don't know if you're even here anymore, but if you're not, I'm gonna miss comments like these....

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3 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

I'll check point blank music school, I definitely could use some more knowledge.  

 

Our style/genre will definitely influence who we would wanna get tips from, but I find that production techniques are generally the same no matter what genre. I'm currently learning about classical composition and production and I'm already seeing how the things I'm learning from classical production can better my EDM production. Just throwing it out there :)

 

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Just now, ImKeN said:

 

Our style/genre will definitely influence who we would wanna get tips from, but I find that production techniques are generally the same no matter what genre. I'm currently learning about classical composition and production and I'm already seeing how the things I'm learning from classical production can better my EDM production. Just throwing it out there :)

 

Well good production is all about clarity and vibe, I'd imagine it doesn't really matter too much the genre, if you know how to separate sounds and create movement that's gonna carry over to most any genre isn't it?  I'd love to learn to produce like 70's artists were produced, I know a lot of that would have to do with room and mics used and analog gear etc, but at  the same time I feel like it has a lot to do with approach as well.  Things seem less compressed, less squashed back then, and whereas nowadays I feel like most instruments get the same level of attention, in the 70's you'd get a lot more dynamics in the mix, sometimes parts would seem to jump out over the top of everything else or swirl around your head.  I feel like I still do hear productions of this nature, but they're rare.  

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And usually dubstep...

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