Lisa Gates

She Took My Moment (with edits)

27 posts in this topic

Current status (may be done...)

She Took My Moment

 

Confident that I’m clueless

Can’t find success in my mistakes

Never trusting lessons taught me

I’m caught up in my heartache

It seems I’m clueless

 

Getting lost in wishful dreams

Distracted by my lust for love

Tucked away in a dresser drawer

The ring I’ll never speak of

It seems I’m a dreamer

 

She took my moment

Took my breath (distant voice in the back ground sings: from my words)

Our love is dead

Took my plans (distant voice in the back ground sings: now they’re gone)

Out of my hands

She took my moment

 

There’s no fixing what she’s done

I’m moving on with my regrets

Not worth the pain of bitterness

Shattered heart never forgets

It proves I’m broken

 

She took my moment

Took my breath (distant voice in the back ground sings: from my words)

Our love is dead

Took my plans (distant voice in the back ground sings: now they’re gone)

Out of my hands

She took my moment

 

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

She couldn’t wait and wouldn’t stay

She made that clear with a note to say

Goodbye

 

She took my moment

Took my breath (distant voice in the back ground sings: from my words)

Our love is dead

Took my plans (distant voice in the back ground sings: now they’re gone)

Out of my hands

She took my moment


Here's how it's coming along:

New with edits from everyone's suggestions:

Confident that I’m clueless

Can’t find success in my mistakes

Never trusting lessons taught me

I’m caught up in my heartache

It seems I’m clueless

 

 

 

Getting lost in wishful dreams

Distracted by my lust for love

Tucked away in a dresser drawer

The ring I’ll never speak of

It seems I’m dreamin

 

 

 

She took my moment

Took my breath (distant voice in the back ground sings: from my words)

Our love is dead

Took my plans (distant voice in the back ground sings: now they’re gone)

Out of my hands

She took my moment

 

 

 

There’s no fixing what she’s done

I’m moving on with my regrets

Not worth the pain of bitterness

Shattered heart never forgets

It proves I’m broken

 

 

 

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

I found her note instead saying goodbye

She got the last word in and wrote(or writing?) all she had to say

 

She took my moment

Took my breath (distant voice in the back ground sings: from my words)

Our love is dead

Took my plans (distant voice in the back ground sings: now they’re gone)

Out of my hands

She took my moment

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

original version: She Took My Moment

Confident that I’m clueless

Can’t find success in my mistakes

Never trusting lessons taught me

I’m caught up in my heartache

 

 

 

Getting lost in wishful dreams

Distracted by my lust for love

Tucked away in a dresser drawer

The ring I’ll never speak of

 

 

 

She took the moment

Took my breath

Called the cops

Our love is dead

She took the moment

Took my plans

Threw them all

Out of my hands

She took my moment

 

 

 

There’s no fixing what she’s done

I’m moving on with my regrets

Not worth the pain of bitterness

Broken heart never forgets

 

 

 

My plan to ask was gonna be amazing

I knew just where and when it’d be

There’s no accounting now for waiting cause

 

 

 

She took the moment

Took my breath

Called the cops

Our love is dead

She took the moment

Took my plans

Threw them all

Out of my hands

She took my moment

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i'm not perfect just like to write to pass time...do you talk that way...i was taught english is important but this isn't english class...i also was taught that words are only half of it, there's also music...though some songs are music only...some words are hard to sing...i'm still learning and trying....

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Hi Lisa

Well written BUT why did she call the cops? 

My guess he was abusive? I feel this type of story needs the why she called the cops but thats just my take.

 

Verses flow very nicely and I like the hook.

 

Good Luck

 

Les

 

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Hey, Lisa,

 

I think this has potential.  IMO, saying she stole the moment would work better than saying she took it.  Though "stole the moment" is a common expression to express being upstaged, I think that's a good thing because it makes the meaning more readily understood, and in context, "stole the moment" seems like the natural way to say it to me.  Just my opinion.

 

I agree with Les that having her "call the cops" opens up a huge unexplained can of worms.  But more significantly for me is that It also kills any sympathy we might have for the guy, and I think he needs to be a wholly sympathetic character for the song to work.  I wouldn't have her calling the cops.  Instead, think about having her leave him - maybe she got tired of waiting for him to propose or found someone else - it doesn't really matter.  Just the fact that she left him upstages his planned proposal big time.   It's a different structure than what you have now, but here's an idea for such a chorus if you're so inclined - keep or sweep.

 

she stole the moment

preemptive srtike (or "lightening strike")

a "Dear John," she was gone

boy was I surprised

just when I was ready

to get down on one knee

she stole the moment from me

Edited by HoboSage
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Lisa . hear what Les and Hobosage are saying but think it would work if it read

 

she took the  moment

took my breath

call  the cops      as in he is so suprised by the turn of events

our love is dead

 

john

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Hi Lisa

It looks like you are writing a moderately stable verse against a moderately unstable chorus. Which is a good plan.

I think that the chorus might not be quite unstable enough. The bridge is also unstable and that is forcing you to go non standard, verse, bridge, chorus. Because if you went chorus, bridge, chorus the stability and tension would go on too long.

 

In the bridge I just noticed there is a false resolution followed by the word "cause" I think you could make more use of the highlight spot there created by the "amazing/waiting" resolution. 

 

However this is a structure decision you need to sort out on the balance of what makes the more powerful song.

Because if you come up with a killer heart rending statement to put in the highlight spot in the bridge then you will have to, for tension and release, rewrite the verses unstable and the chorus stable. So that it goes verse tension, chorus release, bridge tension, chorus release. 

 

My gut feeling is that you should spend as long as it takes to encapsulate the entire song in three or four words and stick it in that emphasis spot, in the bridge. Then you will be cooking with gas.

 

Restructuring the verses and chorus is not a big job. On the other hand the chorus contains a hook club sandwich which is super cool. so how are you going to keep that in a stable chorus, can that be done? yes it can, if you do it at the back end you can delete one line that would accelerate you into the verse or bridge. So it would be front heavy. 

 

If on the other hand you decide to stick with the unstable chorus I think you need to up the anti a bit by loosing the perfect rhymes. Plans/hands its too bog stable. 

I think "stole" is better than took so I agree with Dave on that. 

 

"Called the cops" Is that a typo should it have been "call the cops our love is dead" ?

Consider if it was, what a statement that is, its strong right so why not reverse engineer a point of emphasis there if thats possible by placing a rhyme for cops earlier and setting up a false resolution. 

 

She stole the moment 

Took my breath 

Call the cops our love is dead 

She stole the moment

 

No that can't be done because it would have to be in line one and that's the hook so its not a goer, except that there is still a slight emphasis due to the longer line length.

You could pinch that and use it in the bridge eh. "There’s no accounting now for waiting call the cops our love is dead" is one option.

 

On the other hand now I look at the first half of the chorus I am wondering about metaphors because if you can include some other illegal activity in regard to the plans it adds to the call the cops thing. Also now I an leaning towards a stable chorus unstable verse and bridge because you can just repeat the above structure which retains the hook sandwich. You could do something like this using the patterning, repetition and seeming repetition  and to stabilise the chorus, with the second stanza. 

 

She stole the moment 

Tied my hands

Robbed my dreams and wrecked my plans

She stole the moment

Then all you need to do is destabilise the verse and put a killer emphasis statement in the bridge. Simple ha!

Actually I just looked and its not hard I just saw this which gives a point of emphasis on "pain" and a secondary hook. Which is quite cute really.

Confident that I’m clueless

Can’t find success in my mistakes

I’m caught up in my heartache and pain

Never trusting lessons taught me

I'm clueless 

So interesting Lisa, but before you start fiddling probably go back to the basics of structure and tension and release think inside the box and then make an edit plan and then  do it.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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You have a lot of good advise. There seems to be a lot on why the cops were called. I like the mystery. maybe elaborate a little, to feed on the curiosity. Everyone has their own experiences and imagination. Play on that, and feed them a little, to build more interest. Nice start.

 

Jim

 

 

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On 8/17/2016 at 3:23 AM, Skin said:

Hi Lisa

Well written BUT why did she call the cops? 

My guess he was abusive? I feel this type of story needs the why she called the cops but thats just my take.

 

Verses flow very nicely and I like the hook.

 

Good Luck

 

Les

 

Hey Les,

Yes, the "cop" line stuck out like a sore thumb...I see there are other suggestions so my tweeking begins. Stay tuned my friend!! :-)

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On 8/17/2016 at 7:44 AM, HoboSage said:

Hey, Lisa,

 

I think this has potential.  IMO, saying she stole the moment would work better than saying she took it.  Though "stole the moment" is a common expression to express being upstaged, I think that's a good thing because it makes the meaning more readily understood, and in context, "stole the moment" seems like the natural way to say it to me.  Just my opinion.

 

I agree with Les that having her "call the cops" opens up a huge unexplained can of worms.  But more significantly for me is that It also kills any sympathy we might have for the guy, and I think he needs to be a wholly sympathetic character for the song to work.  I wouldn't have her calling the cops.  Instead, think about having her leave him - maybe she got tired of waiting for him to propose or found someone else - it doesn't really matter.  Just the fact that she left him upstages his planned proposal big time.   It's a different structure than what you have now, but here's an idea for such a chorus if you're so inclined - keep or sweep.

 

she stole the moment

preemptive srtike (or "lightening strike")

a "Dear John," she was gone

boy was I surprised

just when I was ready

to get down on one knee

she stole the moment from me

Hey David, I'm torn about "took" and "stole" It's probably going to stay because this will probably be a country song and "took" feeds into that genre better for me. But thanks for your opinion. It really means a lot to me.

You're on to something with what caused the upstaging of his proposal. I'm going to read John and Gary's notes too and make some well needed changes.

Thanks a million!

Lisa

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On 8/17/2016 at 11:56 AM, scotsman89 said:

Lisa . hear what Les and Hobosage are saying but think it would work if it read

 

she took the  moment

took my breath

call  the cops      as in he is so suprised by the turn of events

our love is dead

 

john

Hey John,

Not sure how the chorus is going to change but I think I'll just cut the cop line and go in a different direction with it. Try to get my point across in another way.

Thanks for your input on it though. I get where you were going with it.

Lisa

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On 8/27/2016 at 0:12 PM, Jim622 said:

You have a lot of good advise. There seems to be a lot on why the cops were called. I like the mystery. maybe elaborate a little, to feed on the curiosity. Everyone has their own experiences and imagination. Play on that, and feed them a little, to build more interest. Nice start.

 

Jim

 

 

Hi Jim,

Thanks for popping in on this one!

There is a mystery as to why the cops were called and that is the upstaging (from Hobosage's critique) emphisis I need bring out.

thank you,

Lisa

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On 8/23/2016 at 8:07 PM, snabbu said:

Hi Lisa

It looks like you are writing a moderately stable verse against a moderately unstable chorus. Which is a good plan.

I think that the chorus might not be quite unstable enough. The bridge is also unstable and that is forcing you to go non standard, verse, bridge, chorus. Because if you went chorus, bridge, chorus the stability and tension would go on too long.

 

In the bridge I just noticed there is a false resolution followed by the word "cause" I think you could make more use of the highlight spot there created by the "amazing/waiting" resolution. 

 

However this is a structure decision you need to sort out on the balance of what makes the more powerful song.

Because if you come up with a killer heart rending statement to put in the highlight spot in the bridge then you will have to, for tension and release, rewrite the verses unstable and the chorus stable. So that it goes verse tension, chorus release, bridge tension, chorus release. 

 

My gut feeling is that you should spend as long as it takes to encapsulate the entire song in three or four words and stick it in that emphasis spot, in the bridge. Then you will be cooking with gas.

 

Restructuring the verses and chorus is not a big job. On the other hand the chorus contains a hook club sandwich which is super cool. so how are you going to keep that in a stable chorus, can that be done? yes it can, if you do it at the back end you can delete one line that would accelerate you into the verse or bridge. So it would be front heavy. 

 

If on the other hand you decide to stick with the unstable chorus I think you need to up the anti a bit by loosing the perfect rhymes. Plans/hands its too bog stable. 

I think "stole" is better than took so I agree with Dave on that. 

 

"Called the cops" Is that a typo should it have been "call the cops our love is dead" ?

Consider if it was, what a statement that is, its strong right so why not reverse engineer a point of emphasis there if thats possible by placing a rhyme for cops earlier and setting up a false resolution. 

 

She stole the moment 

Took my breath 

Call the cops our love is dead 

She stole the moment

 

No that can't be done because it would have to be in line one and that's the hook so its not a goer, except that there is still a slight emphasis due to the longer line length.

You could pinch that and use it in the bridge eh. "There’s no accounting now for waiting call the cops our love is dead" is one option.

 

On the other hand now I look at the first half of the chorus I am wondering about metaphors because if you can include some other illegal activity in regard to the plans it adds to the call the cops thing. Also now I an leaning towards a stable chorus unstable verse and bridge because you can just repeat the above structure which retains the hook sandwich. You could do something like this using the patterning, repetition and seeming repetition  and to stabilise the chorus, with the second stanza. 

 

She stole the moment 

Tied my hands

Robbed my dreams and wrecked my plans

She stole the moment

Then all you need to do is destabilise the verse and put a killer emphasis statement in the bridge. Simple ha!

Actually I just looked and its not hard I just saw this which gives a point of emphasis on "pain" and a secondary hook. Which is quite cute really.

Confident that I’m clueless

Can’t find success in my mistakes

I’m caught up in my heartache and pain

Never trusting lessons taught me

I'm clueless 

So interesting Lisa, but before you start fiddling probably go back to the basics of structure and tension and release think inside the box and then make an edit plan and then  do it.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gary so much here! Thank you for your all your thoughts! I'm printing this out and will update you as I make changes. I really appreciate your critique!!

All the best,

Lisa

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Hi I've editted the original post with a newer version based on everyone's critiques and put it above the original post.

Hobo, I had her leave... it was the best way to explain why the moment was gone. Obviously took the cops out of the scenario! Maybe that can of worms is a whole other song!

Les and Jim, the mystery of the cops was too much. I think there's another song for that topic! LOL

Gary, I tried to make the verses usntable, chorus stable, with (hopefully) an emphasis statement in the bridge.

I realize this is a work in progress and appreciate if any of you would kindly critique the newer verstion.

Thanks!!

Lisa

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Hi Lisa

The verses now read a lot more convincing to me just one small thing the last line of verse 1 and 3 describes what you are rather that in verse 2 which describes what you are doing 

"It seems I’m dreaming" . So I felt that should be the same and be "It seems I'm a dreamer"

 

The rock stability of the chorus now plays nicely against the verses so that is all working very well.

 

The form is still going from verse three into the bridge there should be a chorus in there before the bridge. There for the bridge has to to take us between the two iterations of 

"She took my moment" and it is explaining how that actually happened.

 

"I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

I found her note instead saying goodbye

She got the last word in and wrote(or writing?) all she had to say"

 

"Took my moment i planned to ask her ...." That connects ok

"All she had to say she took my moment" I am not sure the connection is so great.

The other thing about the bridge is the point of emphasis is on the word "goodbye"

This one word sums up the whole song and it needs to hang out there real strong. 

I think doing the false resolution with an additive rhyme lessens the impact I am concerned that they are not going to be absolutely convinced its a resolution.

"Way/ saying" If it can be done with perfect rhyme we know it will work, the way it is now is a risk. I also think because goodbye rhymes with absolutely nothing is should be the last word. Which give you two techniques in one.

i The breaking of a false resolution: point of emphasis 

ii Ending a section with a none rhyme: Tension increase 

So its a BOGGOF 

Example: 

"I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

But she took my moment with the words she wrote 

The note she left me, last thing she had to say was goodbye"

 

If you can do something like this or better using a perfect rhyme for the false resolution "way/say" and get goodbye in the final position to get your double effect I think you are done.

 

Its a pretty good example of the power of editing. 

Its now all the more believable and poignant.

If you can fix the bridge I think your done.

Nice write 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

Edited by snabbu
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I've read all the replies so there's not much for me to say, except I like this a lot! Even what you have now is well done, although Gary has some good points. I've been missing out since I've been away, this a heckuva write.

 

Getting lost in wishful dreams

Distracted by my lust for love

Tucked away in a dresser drawer

The ring I’ll never speak of

It seems I’m dreamin

 

Love this section.....Nice!

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I love how close this is to being done!

Gary,

I used "I'm dreaming" to match syllable count but "I'm a dreamer" will just have to work with the singer/melody!

 

if I understand you right, the bridge can have a perfect rhyme? and if it ends on goodbye all the more tension?

what about these:

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

She took my moment and broke my heart

In the note she left to say goodbye

 

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

She couldn’t wait and wouldn’t stay

She made it clear with a note to say goodbye

 

or the structure on the second option could be:

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way

She couldn’t wait and wouldn’t stay

She made it clear

with a note she left to say

goodbye

 

I can put a chorus before the bridge. If it turns out too long I can take out V3, put a chorus between V1 & 2 ... Editting forever is ok right? LOL

Thanks so much!

 

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Hi Lisa 

If you go back to your lectures about line length, remember that line lengths not dictated by the actual number of syllables, it is dictated by the number of naturally stressed syllables. And remember the need to preserve the natural shape of the language. I will add one small condition to that which Pat did not mention to my memory, that is don't stick an odd number of unstressed syllables in one line that doesn't match with another that its supposed too. Because the rhythm syncopation with be thrown out. So to stick 

4 1            2     3       4

It  seems I’m dreamin

4   1        (2 and)   3       4

It seems I’m a    dreamer

Works perfectly well will not materially affect the melody pattern. 

 

The bridge is very close 

Here is an analysis of the stress and grove.

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way (4)

She couldn’t wait and wouldn’t stay (4)

She made it clear with a note to say  (4) (false resolution ) goodbye (5) actual line length unstable and rhymes with nothing 

 

The line lengths and rhyme pattern is great.  The rhythm pattern of line two and three is exactly the same until goodby happens which is good. It goes weak/strong/ weak, strong/etc. If you look at line number one you have this extra unstressed triplet "in the most" that does not fit the rhythm pattern you are setting up. What I think is the perfect solution is that the rhythm patterns of lines 1 & t2 are identical, so that when you get to "say" in line three there is a very concrete expectation that that is the finish, therefore making goodbye all the more powerful.

The reason I am really focusing on this point is that the word "Goodbye" sums up the whole idea and reason for existence of the entire song in one word And that summing up is in the bridge which is exactly where its meant to be and its position in the bridge is the last word. 

 

I am looking at ways to bring that line as close to the rhythm pattern as possible. Or to keep the pattern and make line 1 one stressed syllable longer. Which will still work because this is actually unstable, even though we are creating the illusion that it is stable. So uneven line length is ok as long as it shortens towards the back end for pace. So thinking about the word "most" that could be stressed without sounding weird. So the thing is is to get as close to alternating strong weak as we can. So as a 5 stressed syllable long line we have 

I planned to ask her in the most amazing way (5)

This is going to sit in the music like this 

(4) (1)           (2)   (3)  (4             )  (1)      (2) (3)  (4)   (1) 

I    planned to   ask her in the  most    a  mazing way (5)

And it is beat 4 bar 2 that is the issue because we are forced to do a triplet three syllables on (her in the) This is at odds with what comes next which is strong/weak repeated. Now if you remember that stress is infinitely divisible in 4/4 time strong bar weak bar strong whole note weak whole note, strong half with sixteenth etc.  The three notes of the triplet messes with this even division. So all that has to happen is loose the triplet. 

Now if I look at this line I think "her" is a redundant word Because the next two lines begin with "she" so it is obvious who we are talking too. With that removed we get this 

(4)  (1)            (2)   (3)    (4 and)   (1)       (2)   (3)     (4)  (1)

I    planned to   ask  in the  most    a  mazing  way (5)

And because in 4/4 stress is infinitely divisible the in the has and internal minor  stress pattern of strong/ weak so the whole pattern is not disturbed.

Because of the I think the bridge is 

I planned to ask in the most amazing way                                                                                                                                                                                                        She couldn’t wait and wouldn’t stay                                                                                                                                                                                                                   She made that clear with a note to say goodbye

Just notice at the last minute I swapped out "it" for "that" One it sings better,  two it connects to the previous line, whereas it is not as strong a connection.

And that bridge really sums up all that;s happened

"I'm clueless", "a dreamer"," I'm broken"  now when I get to goodbye it feel real sad, can you feel the focus. It is very strong.

Now these issues of rhythm and stress would go away if you stopped writing in silence. You can write in silence but when you've written edit too a loop and chant the words hear the shape the stress the beat, feel it.  Then you will not even have to think about it. If you don't want to do that you have to go through your lyric and do a line by line stress analysis and check that the lines all match inter-veres etc. It is much easier to polish it to a drum loop, you can feel the stress is right.

Now what about setting? Back and front heavy phrasing. 

I think in the verses only the last line would be back heavy to up the pathos of the clueless broken dreamers. 

I am not sure about the rest of it though the chorus and the bridge. Perhaps in the chorus "our love is dead" "she took my moment" are the back heavy candidates. Its going to make a lot of difference to this, remember the example song "pieces" all front heavy, it was nice pretty sad song, but once they did the odd back heavy phrase it hit you in the chest and put a lump in your throat, this is going to be the same deal. And you need to do that setting chanting to a loop or your just guessing. Because its about emotions not reason. So you need to feel it. This guy is pathetic and sad and you have to make me feel oh so sorry for him. 

 

Cheers

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by snabbu
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Hello Lisa, I'm David. I just want to ask, why do you want to write: to express feelings, thoughts, ideas, experiences? What are your

reasons? Everything comes from inside, from you. It seems very complicated looking at some of these replies. It shouldn't be.

I can read 10 books by Shakespeare, but I will never be able to write like him. You have to feel it when you write. No one can

teach you that. This is meant to be helpful and NOT condescending. Please take it as helpful.

I wish you well,  David

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6 hours ago, zyzzyva said:

Hello Lisa, I'm David. I just want to ask, why do you want to write: to express feelings, thoughts, ideas, experiences? What are your

reasons? Everything comes from inside, from you. It seems very complicated looking at some of these replies. It shouldn't be.

I can read 10 books by Shakespeare, but I will never be able to write like him. You have to feel it when you write. No one can

teach you that. This is meant to be helpful and NOT condescending. Please take it as helpful.

I wish you well,  David

Hello David, I see you're new here to Songstuff so I'll go easy. Yes I feel you are being condescending. All you have to do is go look at my past posts, my critiques and my blog to know why I write, that I do it with feeling, and that I've been doing it for quite a while.

 

Here in this post, I've asked for critiques of my lyrics. The "complicated replies" you mentioned are what I am looking at to grow as a writer. It is why I am here on Songstuff to learn and grow not to lecture people or be lectured by them.

 

Please take a look at my profile and read the section about how I like to be critiqued. In the future, before posting you can look at member's profile to get that information as well.

 

If you have a critique of my lyrics I will glady accept them and see if they have helpfulness. As for what you've written here, I would rather you have reached out on our Private Messaging (PM) part of our website.

 

I appreciate that you are here at Songstuff and see you have posted a critique on an other post. I hope you continue to be active on Songstuff because it has a lot to offer you and you have a lot to offer it.

All the best,

Lisa

 

 

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GARY!!! The stresses were so hard for me to understand in that course. I think if I can get a melody going I can understand the stresses better. It will help me get the rythm going.

I like what you've done with the bridge. I'll be looking at it in more depth later as I'm working now...

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6 hours ago, zyzzyva said:

Hello Lisa, I'm David. I just want to ask, why do you want to write: to express feelings, thoughts, ideas, experiences? What are your

reasons? Everything comes from inside, from you. It seems very complicated looking at some of these replies. It shouldn't be.

I can read 10 books by Shakespeare, but I will never be able to write like him. You have to feel it when you write. No one can

teach you that. This is meant to be helpful and NOT condescending. Please take it as helpful.

I wish you well,  David

 

Hi David, 

 

I don't want to steal Lisa's topic. The validity of critique is a topic on it's own and would be better within it's own topic on the Songwriting discussion board. In essence you are saying forget all the complex comments, you can't learn from others, follow your feelings. I understand the sentiment, but I have to disagree. Feeling is important, but it is not the only aspect of lyrics, or music, by a long way. Sure you can re-invent the wheel, think you learn from no one, do your own thing completely (almost), but it is a very slow way to improve.

 

If you write verse chorus based songs, you have learned from someone else. If you use rhymes, you have learned from someone else. If you use repeated rhythms, you have learned from someone else. So why deny it? Why kid yourself on and slow yourself down?

 

You might say Use feeling, but that is exactly what using a draft phase of writing is all about. Edit cycles are about spotting and fixing issues, improving that draft. Does that mean the fixes are devoid of feeling, that they compromise or break the feeling of a song... yes, if you pick the wrong edit. The point is that you learn to spot issues and learn how to fix them. Sometimes that involves something you feel you inherently know (in other words you learned it sometime before, possibly even at school where you gained most of your English language skills... in other words, someone taught you) but often it involves learning new skills and finessing old skills. Once learned, of course, it is in your skills bag for future writes. Any song does not exist in isolation.

 

The point is not to learn to write like someone else. The point is to build your own skills, to improve your own writing, so that you write songs more effectively. If you want to write moving ballads that are catchy and engaging, but they aren't catchy, aren't engaging and plain suck.... I can tell you that and you can ignore me, or go and try and work it out and take another stab at it, OR I can tell you exactly why I think it isn't working and make suggestions of ways of dealing with the issues. You can follow advice or not, it is up to you. It is under your control as the writer. I may or may not be correct in my assessment, but that is why critique is a discussion, not merely a comment.

 

I understand, some of the critiques are very detailed, almost clinical... but that is because the points being communicated are detailed and precision can be very important. Lisa is more than capable of understanding the points made... and learning from them. That is a strength, not a weakness. Lisa's writing is far from being devoid of feeling. If her song already contains the feelings she wants it to.... yet the song has grammatical errors that don't impact the feel, or the hook could be better, that doesn't cause an issue with emotions but has a very noticeable impact on how well the song will be remembered... that can all be learned.

 

Writing songs is so much more than raw emotion, otherwise we could just get rid of words and make noises that matched our emotion. Some experimental poetry dabbles in just that. To think that emotion is it and that we cannot learn from others is just being in denial. It slows down skills improvement massively.

 

I'll shut up now. Like you I offer this to try and help. You and others. I would have sent it in a private message, but someone else reading your comments might follow your advice and I can't in all conscience leave it unchallenged.

 

I am happy to continue debating this, but if so, let's do it in a new topic in the Songwriting discussion board. :)

 

Lisa, I'll unhijack your topic now!

 

Cheers

 

John

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John, thanks for adding to this. You are on to something. I think I'll pop over to Songwriting discussion board and do a post : "form or feel" which style fits you? (maybe both...)

lol

back to the day job now...

All the best Lisa

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Just a note to David

 

Hi and welcome to song stuff.

 

Sorry Lisa this is a bit of topic, but I think this needs to be discussed out in the open for the benefit of all writers, rather than by private messages.

 

Something that you wouldn't be aware of is that Lisa has completed a 72 hour song writing course, run by an excellent communicator, and sponsored by Berklee university.

I know she has done this course I know the content of that course. When I am critiquing a writers work in detail it takes me quite a long time. I try to frame my critique in a way that I think the writer will understand. In Lisa's case I can save us both a lot of time and go into the minutia of technique because I know she knows what I am talking about. If I was talking to someone else who was not formally educated in song writing I would take a different approach.

 

There is a common misperception that because clear and concise communication is complex that it is heartless, it is not. We do write from the heart, however we use our head, and technique to make sure what is in our hearts, is getting across to our listeners with no room for doubt as to what it is we are saying.

 

I will spend all the time in the world discussing a song like this because it is very very good. Its got the heart, it's well crafted. All we are doing is making sure we get the best bang for our buck from what is there.

 

Never be afraid of education and learning. It will not kill or damage your being able to write from inside yourself.

 

Critiquing a song like Lisa's, of this quality, is a great benefit to me the critique giver, because it forces me to analyse it in detail and pick it apart to see what she has done and how it's been made. The final result for me in critiquing this song is, I am sitting here thinking, I can't point to anything I've written where the whole nut of the song is summed up in one word which appears in the bridge, where new information should appear, not only that it is the last word of the bridge, not only that it's emphasised by rhyming and, line length technique. It's not the word itself it's all the images that go before it to set it up the whole song leads to that moment. And of course I am inspired to go and try and do exactly the same thing, and that is the ducks guts of what being here is all about.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

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8 hours ago, Lisa Gates said:

GARY!!! The stresses were so hard for me to understand in that course. I think if I can get a melody going I can understand the stresses better. It will help me get the rythm going.

I like what you've done with the bridge. I'll be looking at it in more depth later as I'm working now...

LISA!!!

Me too, the hardest thing in the whole course  by a mile. Like I'm sitting here saying "bananas, bananas bananas" to unfix my perception of the stresses. And still I am quite often not sure I have got it right. I really believe the speaking of the lyric to a beat loop, and feeling the emotion and the flow is just so important. I don't do that until i'm about to write the music, and I always have corrections, from the in silence written lyric. So i'm with you it is one of the most difficult things to get. But the drum loop chant or the pencil on the desk top is an essential editing tool for stress and meter.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

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Gary, I'll be pencil tapping soon!

thanks, for your vote of confidence in me and backing me up! This has been great write and I'm honored you took so much time with it!

All the best,

Lisa

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On 11/4/2016 at 10:55 PM, LooknGlass said:

I've read all the replies so there's not much for me to say, except I like this a lot! Even what you have now is well done, although Gary has some good points. I've been missing out since I've been away, this a heckuva write.

 

Getting lost in wishful dreams

Distracted by my lust for love

Tucked away in a dresser drawer

The ring I’ll never speak of

It seems I’m dreamin

 

Love this section.....Nice!

my favorite too James...

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Tap, tap tap tap .

Tap,tap tap tap .

My pencil works .

This is coming along fine .

I had an issue with a part,and think Gary may have hit on it with his crit. But I got caught up in the whole thread .So ....

Tap, tap tap tap

 

Rock on 

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