Kemper vs Tubes

[Rudi]

This is remarkable test. It affected Lee Anderton (left) profoundly.

 

 

[TapperMike]

It's funny about those two.  I love Lee "The Captain"s guitar playing. I always feel it's overshadowed by Rob Chapman's personality.  

[teek]

Thanks Rudi , i enjoyed that .

[Rudi]

21 hours ago, teek said:

Thanks Rudi , i enjoyed that .

 

Glad of that mate. Its a nail in the coffin for tube amps I think. Those two fellows are not easily confounded. Lee did a follow up (part 2) the next day I think. It consolidated the findings of the one posted.

[TapperMike]

I watched part two as well.   

 

Only one in four times did they get it right.  At least Lee was honest with himself and the public.  It's funny how some die hard tube types will never accept modeled amps.  In part two Rob states that he'll keep and leave his valve amp at home and tour with the Kemper.  I'm reminded of when Kiss was still a small band and they would bring dummy amplifiers and cabs to look like the sound was bigger then it was.  This sadly is a division that may not be overcome in time.  Looking the part.  

\

[Rudi]

14 hours ago, TapperMike said:

I'm reminded of when Kiss was still a small band and they would bring dummy amplifiers and cabs to look like the sound was bigger then it was.  This sadly is a division that may not be overcome in time.  Looking the part.  

 

Maybe that will be Kemper mkII? A modelling amp with a boutique rig frontage.

 

I didnt know that about Kiss. I suppose if it was anyone it would be a band that wear makeup

[TapperMike]

It's funny,  I stopped going to Gearslutz years ago.  The trolls are unbearable.  Every-once-in-awhile someone will link to gearslutz in a different thread @kvr or another music forum that I frequent.  It adds nothing to the discussion of using virtual technology be it kemper or line 6 or some other new technology.  Sometimes it begs the question.  "If these guys are so anti technology then how did they get on the internet?"

[TapperMike]

As far as Vi's and v-synths go.....  The best thing to happen to me was getting a new computer.

Even though I have a bridge to run them I left all my 32 bit plugins behind.  They are still there if I need them but haven't felt the need to transfer them.  Though I will admit that the linnstrument is a godsend for aftertouch as is the Roli Seaboard/Rise for bringing new life to old sounds.

 

Chappers sums it all up for me.  I used to haul around three amps back before all this amp sim / amp modelling took storm. Carrying around gear was a pain.  But I wanted the tone that I could only get from those amps.  And I needed a bass amp for the times I'd be playing bass instead of guitar.  Having an all in one and being able to pull the sound you want / need as opposed to the only one you have make a huge difference.  Sure I most likely will never need or want any of the current high gain amps on the market.  But I like the idea of.... with the click of a footswitch bringing up a specific amp with specific settings rather then having to dial them in or using an amp that really wasn't designed for the tone I'm going for on a particular song.

 

 

[starise]

The Kempler is light years ahead of most modeling setups. Having said that, if you like what's in your Zoom, Roland or your Line 6, there's no need to go out and buy a Kempler. There is some degree of program ability in those as well.

 

The Kempler and products like it are the Rolls Royce of amp tones.

 

The thing that I find most interesting is I know a few people who have a Kempler. Wonderful as they are, these folks are still buying software and hardware amplifiers...I had to ask, if the Kempler is the end all be all, why are they still looking and buying??? Is this something like owing guitars. The thirst seems insatiable.

 

[TapperMike]

Kempler's are way out of my league financially.

 

   

[starise]

1 hour ago, TapperMike said:

Kempler's are way out of my league financially.

 

 

I could make a really long winded reply to this, but I'll try to keep it short. 

 

I'll just say this, there are  two camps of people who tend to buy these kinds of things. The home musician/studio enthusiast and the for profit studio owner both large and small. It won't surprise me if there are some who just wanted one, had the money and bought it. I suspect these are in the minority though. There are certainly  professional guitarists out there who own one. 

I have run into this kind of thing time and again when looking at different kinds of equipment. Take microphones for instance.Usually if a person starts out by saying he used mic A to track drums last week and then used it to track guitars and a sax yesterday, and goes on to say he used Mic B and C tracking bands and compares it to mics D, E, and F which he also owns, chances are he either works for a studio or owns a recording studio.

 

Seen the same thing in pre amps. Who has a collection of 3000.00 pre amps? I mean, some of these guys claim to have a dozen of the very best ones. These are once again, most likely pro or semi pro busy studio owners who are making money and can justify these kinds of purchases. Then comes the small guy like us asking what's the best pre amp to buy....he usually gets ten different replies and the pros fight over which is best. Heads up. Home studio shoestring budget, hobbyist. Look at Warm Audio and upper end Presonus. Good value for money with less of the hype.

 

I haven't looked too deep into the price of the Kempler. Seems it was somewhere in the 1500-2000 range? For most average people it could be purchased but would be considered a larger purchase. Not like a car, but not like a bottle of pop either...so I don't think you're alone there. I guess I really don't want one that bad, but then again I'm not a pro guitarist. I play. I think it's a great piece of kit for someone else. If I happened to find a used one at a good price I might bite, but even then I'm not sure i would, especially if what I already have works for me. 

[Rudi]

I dont need a Kempler. I dont want to model an existing amp, and the presets are likely not so different to others out there. Like Mike, I also would begrudge the cost. I only need a signal processor.

 

Though that signal processor might have to change after getting a variax.

[starise]

18 hours ago, Rudi said:

I dont need a Kempler. I dont want to model an existing amp, and the presets are likely not so different to others out there. Like Mike, I also would begrudge the cost. I only need a signal processor.

 

Though that signal processor might have to change after getting a variax.

 

I hear the Zoom G3 is a really nice unit FWIW. I want one. It gets high marks from users. Probably not good enough for upper end guitar snobs :)....but I personally know of at least one person who plays classic rock gigs regularly and swears by the Zoom units.  Unfortunately the G3 wouldn't accept variax digital, but plenty of players have a variax and use it with other effects. The G3 is also a recording interface.

 

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/guitar/g3-guitar-effects-amp-simulator-pedal

 

[Rudi]

2 hours ago, starise said:

 

I hear the Zoom G3 is a really nice unit FWIW. I want one. It gets high marks from users. Probably not good enough for upper end guitar snobs :)....but I personally know of at least one person who plays classic rock gigs regularly and swears by the Zoom units.  Unfortunately the G3 wouldn't accept variax digital, but plenty of players have a variax and use it with other effects. The G3 is also a recording interface.

 

https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/guitar/g3-guitar-effects-amp-simulator-pedal

 

 

When I said I only need a signal processor I didnt mean I was looking for one. I use a Line 6 POD HD400, which is fine. Unfortunately that wont talk to the variax. So an HD500 might be needed later on.

 

As for Zoom. I had one briefly some 10 years ago. I took it to use at a studio but the sound engineer told me it was too dirty. He brought out a Boss GT5 and we used that. Shortly after I exchanged the Zoom for a GT5. Though I thought the Zoom sounded pretty good. The main problem is that is was fragile. So I didnt expect it to last beyond 12 months. The GT5 was built for road use and lasted about 8 years.

[starise]

I see your point.

The nice thing about the Pods with variax hookup is you can incorporate something else later using the FX loops or line outs. I've been ok with mine so far. I have a few minor nits about it. I wish it had a built in power transformer instead of the wall wart. The plug would be easy to step on and break. Much easier to program using included software than trying to fiddle with it at a gig. I guess this could be said of anything on the floor that you're bending over to see,

[Rudi]

At first I tried using the POD without the software. That was painful. I couldn’t believe that it was harder to program than the GT-5 because that was renowned for being difficult, and here was this modern bit of kit that was worse.

 

All power supply leads are kak these days. It doesn’t matter how well built the unit is, it’s let down by a puny plug and string cable. The Beat Buddy has exactly the same problem, as did the Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor.

 

I wouldn’t try to fiddle with the POD at a gig. Sometimes I might get the EQ a bit wrong when I customise the tone to a new guitar. At home at low volume it sounds fine, but at performing volume its always different. It’s usually got too much top. I allow for that and can usually get it pretty close, but sometimes have to tweak it once I’m home again.

 

[starise]

43 minutes ago, Rudi said:

All power supply leads are kak these days. It doesn’t matter how well built the unit is, it’s let down by a puny plug and string cable. The Beat Buddy has exactly the same problem, as did the Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor.

 

 Seems to be the way things are all going. The only one I own now that doesn't have a wall wart is the Nova System by TC electronic. Also a nice setup if a person is looking for something simple that works well and is built well.  Still doesn't help if you wanted to incorporate Variax. Makes sense that Line 6 doesn't want to make a  " variax to 1/4" line adapter interface" since this would cut the pie out for them. I wish they did.

 

44 minutes ago, Rudi said:

I wouldn’t try to fiddle with the POD at a gig. Sometimes I might get the EQ a bit wrong when I customise the tone to a new guitar. At home at low volume it sounds fine, but at performing volume its always different. It’s usually got too much top. I allow for that and can usually get it pretty close, but sometimes have to tweak it once I’m home again.

 

I gave up on that too. The 500 has some basic EQ along the top which I have used. I still don't have that warm feel good feeling when using any kind of tech on stage. I've had things go wrong too many times to feel completely comfortable with it. An acoustic piano and an acoustic guitar don't usually leave as much room for error. In the studio there's always opportunity for a retake. On stage we get one shot at it. Probably why I don't get as motivated to bring a complicated setup. TBH I haven't had any serious issues with the Variax on stage, but I'm keeping it simple.

[davidmichael]

Hey everyone

Ive been trying to hold my tongue on this one but couldn't help myself . You all know how I like to "stir the pot"

I kinda find exception to this post made : {No offence Rudi}

Posted October 20, 2016

On 10/19/2016 at 6:39 PM, teek said:

Thanks Rudi , i enjoyed that .

 

Glad of that mate. Its a nail in the coffin for tube amps I think. Those two fellows are not easily confounded. Lee did a follow up (part 2) the next day I think. It consolidated the findings of the one posted.

 

My problem with this statement is that without the tube amps themselves ,the Kemper would have nothing to copy to produce the amp sims that it simulates.

I use tube amps as well as transistor amps as they both have their pro's and con's.

I also use effect processors and stomps that will simulate many amp styles and nuances of given amps under different settings , but that by all means doesnt  mean that my amplifiers are obsolete .

On the same page , with that being said , the same thing could be said for using computer software and a P A system . No real amp necessary . Just a power amp to run the monitors.

Same logic with a distortion/overdrive pedal . Made to simulate the sound produced when tubes are overdriven to the point of breakup .

Please dont get me wrong . In no way am i knocking the Kemper .I think it sounded great and is an ingenious idea and would love to have one {but for the money Id rather have a Fractal Axe FX2}

Either way I love all my amps and gear that iI have accumulated over the last 30 some years and have no plans to part with any of it !!!!! 

David 

 

BTW: Look What Santa brought me

 

[starise]

On 1/18/2017 at 8:05 PM, davidmichael said:

My problem with this statement is that without the tube amps themselves ,the Kemper would have nothing to copy to produce the amp sims that it simulates.

I use tube amps as well as transistor amps as they both have their pro's and con's.

 

Great point here. I always get an 'iffy' feeling when playing anything that's supposed to sound like something else. Similar to eating instant mashed potatoes.

 

The question always lingers in the back of my mind, is this really what the real one sounded like? OTOH if I approach it like I'm simply looking for a sound/tone I like I don't get as hung about it.

[Rudi]

On 19/01/2017 at 1:05 AM, davidmichael said:

Hey everyone

Ive been trying to hold my tongue on this one but couldn't help myself . You all know how I like to "stir the pot"

I kinda find exception to this post made : {No offence Rudi}

Posted October 20, 2016

 

Glad of that mate. Its a nail in the coffin for tube amps I think. Those two fellows are not easily confounded. Lee did a follow up (part 2) the next day I think. It consolidated the findings of the one posted.

 

My problem with this statement is that without the tube amps themselves ,the Kemper would have nothing to copy to produce the amp sims that it simulates.

I use tube amps as well as transistor amps as they both have their pro's and con's.

I also use effect processors and stomps that will simulate many amp styles and nuances of given amps under different settings , but that by all means doesnt  mean that my amplifiers are obsolete .

On the same page , with that being said , the same thing could be said for using computer software and a P A system . No real amp necessary . Just a power amp to run the monitors.

Same logic with a distortion/overdrive pedal . Made to simulate the sound produced when tubes are overdriven to the point of breakup .

Please dont get me wrong . In no way am i knocking the Kemper .I think it sounded great and is an ingenious idea and would love to have one {but for the money Id rather have a Fractal Axe FX2}

Either way I love all my amps and gear that iI have accumulated over the last 30 some years and have no plans to part with any of it !!!!! 

David 

 

BTW: Look What Santa brought me

 

 

David,

 

You've made me realise that my posts here were insensitive. Sorry.

 

I was not rubbishing tube amps. Nor even saying that they are no longer relevant or useful. I would still love to have a ToneKing Imperial.

 

I was however, pointing to the future and what I see IMO as the inevitable decline and end of tube tech.

 

And much congrats on your beautiful Ibanez!

 

ATB Rudi