Art And The Dissimilar

[starise]

In another thread a poster stated that in order to try and expand his imagination he liked to look at weird or unusual art. I also tried this idea just to see what I could see. One common thread that seems to run in much art is a bent for the mysterious and the dissimilar, especially concerning abstract and modern art. 

 

The thought also occurred to me that I see the same things in music lyrics that make no sense on a surface level but conjure thoughts and feelings. It would be like someone talking to you in an unknown language, but on some level you get something from it.

 

In the world of art a person can combine visual imagery that will never be seen in the real world. Putting ourselves into that framework can place our senses into an alternate universe of sorts. In fact, much of this imagery wouldn't function in our universe.

 

The artists seems to be attempting to convey several things with this type of art form with some variations. Some of this art is truly dark, drawing on imagery from parts of the human body not intact and in states of influx. Disgust and revulsion seems to be the goal of some artists.In some cases this combination invokes horror even if misunderstood.

 

In lighter versions of this type of art we simply see images that don't usually go together or doing things impossible. Somehow the melded images of dissimilar things might be attempting to pull something out of us that isn't natural or common. In a worst case we might simply scratch our heads in curiosity never knowing either the intent or the possibility of the art. Our minds might attempt a grand assembly of the art in order for it to mean something to us.

 

For me, to know the intent of the artists is most important. Is the artist insane? Out there so far that no one else can know the ideas? Has the artist carried being different a bit too far? Can a few artists land the airplane and share why they make strange art?

[McnaughtonPark]

My quick reply without any in depth thought is how the mind seeks to make sense out of chaos.  Always looking to solve.  A piece of familiarity and the next and soon a solution starts to emerge, and along with it comes an emotional value which is either the wind or the rudder on the journey.  

[Rudi]

I was a visual artist before I was a musician. I thought that was my vocation.

 

Clyfford Still & Mark Rothko were my influences at Art College. Their paintings are neither figurative nor abstract. Rothko painted huge paintings at suggested viewing them from 18” inches away.

 

So for me, music should have been no less ambitious, and I liked Pink Floyd’s Ummagumma & the title track to Saucerful of Secrets was my favourite recording for a year when I was 16.

 

 

Even after I became ‘conventional’, all the lyrics in the songs of the time were weird and sometimes impenetrable. Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen, Syd Barret, Robert Hunter, Neil Young, John Lennon, Nick Drake etc.

 

So for me, surrealism and abstraction in lyrics are almost the norm. I recall posting one of my songs in the lyrics forum, and no one had a clue what it was about. I was dismayed, because to me it was obvious. It was a wakeup call though. So my next song was ‘It Doesn’t Matter What I Sing’.

 

John Moxey’s songs are far heavier than mine. He should chime in here.

 

[MonoStone]

what's the question?

[Just1L]

17 hours ago, starise said:

For me, to know the intent of the artists is most important. Is the artist insane? Out there so far that no one else can know the ideas? Has the artist carried being different a bit too far? Can a few artists land the airplane and share why they make strange art?

 

I'm no artist but for me, the best artist and art and music, etc… is the stuff I don't understand at first. They let me see things a different way. If everything is easily recognizable with no mystery, you get the same ol same ol. Which is good for the most part because it's comforting. It can be carried too far. That's why there's the true artist and then the posers. Forcing differentness without a real vision. 

 

There is a correlation between art and what's happening in the real world today. Artists work, make and change along the way and arrive at a finished piece. Life is very similar. What is happening now, thanks to the internet, is people are standing behind the artist, commenting, altering decisions and in general being a big pain in the ass when they should just shut up and wait for the finished product. It's truly not for other people to judge artists, especially mid-work. They can either understand them or not but in no way should they alter the idea with their influence. Let the artist be the artist. If you don't like it, make your own art.

 

For all things, those best at it have a gift for it. They can see things in ways others aren't able to. Everything can be duplicated, replicated right up to the last detail. But it's that initial vision that cannot be duplicated.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Just1L

[Rudi]

17 hours ago, starise said:

For me, to know the intent of the artists is most important. Is the artist insane? Out there so far that no one else can know the ideas? Has the artist carried being different a bit too far? Can a few artists land the airplane and share why they make strange art?

 

I dont always need to know the intent of the artist. I only need to be moved by it. The listening experience should be enough. We shouldn't have to worry about being bamboozled, or something being over our heads. We only need to be ready for it. Sometimes we are not ready. I made the point elsewhere about not being ready for Dr John (Gris Gris) when I was 16. 

 

Its been said that if you could express what you want in another way there would be less point in doing it.

 

No honest artist wants to confuse us IMO. He wants us to 'get it'.

[McnaughtonPark]

35 minutes ago, Just1L said:

I'm no artist....

I disagree, but understand you're referring to self perception.  I feel how others see you, in this case, is different.  I also feel I'm not an artist, because I have ideas about who an artist is and how their work is presented.  I tend to see the differences between myself and my perception of others.  Like, compared to you, I'm not an artist.  "But what can a poor boy do?"

 

Perception, they say, is reality.  I think an artist challenges that and say's what you perceive is only partly true.  Then presents a vision that others don't normally see.  In lyrics, we are taught it's linear..past, present, future, black and white, don't think for yourself, don't think at all just let me feed you all the details so there isn't room for your own judgment or interpretation and rule this and rule that and verse chorus bridge rhyme blah boring you know what me to tears. 

 

But being an artist is interpretive.  If you sing something I didn't know I needed to hear but when I hear it, it feels like I've heard it all my life, you're an artist.  The best part is not  knowing.  If, like Rudi says, I knew what I wanted to ultimately say, I'd say it and put my pencil down.  What would be the need to keep writing?  

 

 

[starise]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:13 PM, McnaughtonPark said:

My quick reply without any in depth thought is how the mind seeks to make sense out of chaos.  Always looking to solve.  A piece of familiarity and the next and soon a solution starts to emerge, and along with it comes an emotional value which is either the wind or the rudder on the journey.  

 

I think this is a deep  observation, but I might not be deep enough to make that call. I have a tough time trying to get any direction from some of it. I think I get that more of these artists are unhappy and acting some of that out on canvas. Maybe unhappy isn't the proper term. More like trying to work through a dilemma of some kind. I don't mean to give off a negative feeling as it pertains to some art. I like the idea that we can convey things we can't see in the real world in a visual or written format and these things can be extensions of how we feel. 

I'm trying to remember the last time I was really pulled in by a visual artist. Pulled right into their world and able to experience their feelings as they painted it. I tend to notice neatness and construction first and then get an impression on the content second. Why would someone paint a man's body on a tuxedo with a fish head? I might say to myself. That's a really nicely done picture of a...man with a fish head. Then I might ask. Is this person a pisces? A neatly dressed Pisces? Does this give the idea that these animals can have human like traits? Does this say that a real person looks like this underneath his facade? 

It's easy to say it can mean anything I want it to mean, but the artist had a personal reason for it. I would like to think that most of these artists aren't shock jocks. 

On 12/8/2016 at 6:53 AM, Rudi said:

So for me, surrealism and abstraction in lyrics are almost the norm. I recall posting one of my songs in the lyrics forum, and no one had a clue what it was about. I was dismayed, because to me it was obvious. It was a wakeup call though. So my next song was ‘It Doesn’t Matter What I Sing’.

 I had no idea you were an artist Rudi! Man you get around. It must have been a great experience!

In a time when we can literally reproduce any image to perfection with minimum effort using computers, maybe the draw is that this kind of art allows for more flexibility of expression outside of normal means?

21 hours ago, MonoStone said:

what's the question?

Oh Lord here we go again.

21 hours ago, Just1L said:

'm no artist but for me, the best artist and art and music, etc… is the stuff I don't understand at first. They let me see things a different way.

Thanks for your comments Just1L. I'm not trying to put you on the spot, so no pressure to answer either way if you don't have a ready reference. I'm curious of examples that might help me to better understand this idea.

21 hours ago, Just1L said:

There is a correlation between art and what's happening in the real world today. Artists work, make and change along the way and arrive at a finished piece. Life is very similar. What is happening now, thanks to the internet, is people are standing behind the artist, commenting, altering decisions and in general being a big pain in the ass when they should just shut up and wait for the finished product. It's truly not for other people to judge artists, especially mid-work. They can either understand them or not but in no way should they alter the idea with their influence. Let the artist be the artist. If you don't like it, make your own art.

 

I didn't know this was happening although I've seen some music groups release different editions of their music almost in real time with their changes.This might have been because they couldn't remember how to play it exactly the same each time so they ended up with different versions? You make a good point that most artists are in it for themselves and this is just human nature. As long as good and evil can be conveyed through art I imagine someone somewhere will disagree with it. Maybe no different than disagreeing with an idea of any kind, but in order to agree/disagree I have to get it first. To me maybe the most important thing is absorbing the art and trying to get where the artist was coming from. If he or she never had any intent for anyone else to get it then I ask myself why I would want to invest any of my time in something that someone did solo with the intent to keep the ideas solo. I want to give anyone the benefit of the doubt and attempt to get it.

 

21 hours ago, Just1L said:

For all things, those best at it have a gift for it. They can see things in ways others aren't able to. Everything can be duplicated, replicated right up to the last detail. But it's that initial vision that cannot be duplicated.

Great way to put it!

21 hours ago, Rudi said:

I dont always need to know the intent of the artist. I only need to be moved by it. The listening experience should be enough. We shouldn't have to worry about being bamboozled, or something being over our heads. We only need to be ready for it. Sometimes we are not ready. I made the point elsewhere about not being ready for Dr John (Gris Gris) when I was 16. 

 

I'll take being moved by art if that's all I can get from it. At some point I get curious though. If it really moved me I want to know why. I've heard music that seemed to convey really deep sad emotion that touched me . I had to ask myself if this was the intent or if the artist came across some kind of recipe to reproduce that effect. I think it was probably an emotion driving it which makes it all the sadder for me.A soul crying out in sad agony put to music. Or maybe it didn't really have that effect on the artist..only on me. I hesitate to admit that sometimes when I'm playing I can make myself tear up....hopefully it isn't because the music is so bad

 

21 hours ago, Rudi said:

Its been said that if you could express what you want in another way there would be less point in doing it.

 

No honest artist wants to confuse us IMO. He wants us to 'get it'.

Yep I hope this is the intent of most. I really believe it is...I just don't get a lot of it. Wish I did..really want to.

[MonoStone]

15 minutes ago, starise said:

Oh Lord here we go again

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

[starise]

I was really taking to Him. Now where's the emocon with the tongue sticking out?