Is there a point to making an album?

[Just1L]

4 minutes ago, john said:

 

But they do read novels. Yes they buy books, on Amazon etc. Book shops are struggling Kindles etc are booming.

 

Who knows Randy, if Mr Trump gets his wish of getting rid of the free internet as we know it, maybe piracy willl take a knock. Hopefully not behind a Chinese-like firewall of censored internet! It might have an impact on the US market. Mr Trump is nothing if not pro business, and the music biz was a biggie. (I am not looking for a political debate of rights and wrongs, but the implications of his controlled internet may well have a music industry impact, at least within the USA.)

 

As for music, one thing the music industry knows is that fans, true fans, still buy music The buzz word these days is "super fans". The industry is geared to turn listeners to fans, and fans to super fans... and largely, it works.

 

You're definitely right about the kindles, for now at least. The end of the free internet as we know it is inevitable. Whether it's Trump or someone else, one day it will be changed, censored, regulated. For as great as the internet is, the one main thing that lacked from day one was a business plan and any sort of rules, regulations and laws. Which obviously sounds great but opened up a huge can of worms that may take decades to figure out. Personally, I would not care in the least if the internet was censored like china. There are other ways than the internet to get everything you want or need. It may just take a little more work to do it. And I wouldn't miss the distraction of it all. But that's just me of course.

[starise]

22 hours ago, john said:

Hi Tim

 

Vinyl and CDs are formats. Additionally, vinyl, albeit for mainly EDM is making a comeback. It will never be like the best days. Too much has shifted. For me it is not about an imagined optimism of a yesteryear musical nirvana, a belief that things have not changed or that the world has not moved on. It is a realism about what is possible and what is not possible. What is and what isn't.

 

Back in the long, long ago, it wasn't easy to make money as a musician. Indeed it was difficult to get paid from recordings at all. After the industry became established and evolved into a recording marketplace, guess what, it still wasn't easy to make a living. Most musicians relied upon gigs and did well to earn enough to make recordings. What did happen was a path for dubious success appeared, and others were, to a degree, able to mimic it. It still required a lot of luck. Success was still closer to winning the lottery than anything else.

 

The once established pathways have shifted. There are significant changes. It doesn't mean everything has changed. That is not the same as expecting old vinyl and old CDs to fly off the shelves.Physical format is not the same as song collections.

 

Less books sell, yet there are more opportunities for unpublished authors to sell their own books. Yes you can still get published by a known publisher, but there are less opportunities through traditional publishers precisely because of the variety of formats on offer, the rise of self-publishing and the ability of different publishers to adapt their catalog. Music sales are similar. Formats are diverse. Opportunity for self-publishing, self-release, are more achievable.

 

You are indeed right that changes have come. At the same time, changes are always coming.

 

The great thing about an album is that in electronic formats, songs can be sold individually. The two approaches need not be mutually exclusive. Chosing to sell only singles has it's virtues and it's drawbacks. They are simply different approaches and sometimes more of a gimmick than anything else.

 

Cheers

 

John

Hi John,

 

I don't think optimism is ever wasted, so I don't believe going into music with a goal to sell records is a bad thing at all. I just think it needs to be balanced with an objective plan. I would never want to take the wind from anyone's sails. 

 

I would approach the question, " Is it worth it to make an album ?" head on with a few more questions. I suppose if it's worth it only for personal reasons , then money doesn't really need to figure into the plan. Kind of like climbing Everest. If I had that goal in mind it would feel good to accomplish the goal.

 

If money and a career in music are very important I would take a good hard long look at the potential pitfalls and rewards. Am I really talented enough to make a career of this? Do I stand out in my chosen genre? Will I keep going when I don't see any relief in sight? How persistent am I willing to be in order to make my goal? Am I willing to include other ideas and plans into my own objectives for the sake of financial support? How much of myself am I willing to trade for my goals of fame and fortune?

 

On the financial end the rubber really meets the road- My rent or mortgage is $$ My other expenses are $$. Sales projections both good and dismal. On the low end it might be $$...probably will be, unless you get picked up by a large company a musician will likely struggle to survive as a solo act. What do they have that might stick out in a good way? Most are employed in other areas or have connections to get by. Most musicians aren't rich people. The really educated, talented ones do well enough to get by if they are savvy and willing to put a lot into it, so it is very possible for the right person/people. I don't know what CD Baby or iTunes get now. If you walk away with .80 cents per song american, that translates into a lot of 'product' to move to put food on the table and pay the bills. I might attempt it at some point. I'm still procrastinating on uploading to one of those. Might bring in some revenue. I don't think I'm all that, so to be fair I would fall between the cracks just like many others would. 

 

I am admittedly probably not the best source of positive motivation since my aspirations are low. I believe there's a song for every listener. What we do connects with some people and doesn't with others. I can't predetermine that and since I don't possess the Midas touch , I'm content to be a small fish in a very big pond. Others results may vary

 

Cheers

 

 

 

[starise]

On 1/25/2017 at 3:13 PM, Just1L said:

A book emporium? I thought those were obsolete? Nobody reads books anymore. The Kindle's the future. Not for my kids and many others. They do read stuff online but nothing beats a book in your hands. Even kids have that figured out. You see, that's the thing. I would gather that the only reason people have stopped buying CDs, Albums, etc… is because they simply don't have to. They can get what they want free everywhere. If you couldn't get music free, people would go back to buying it. I guarantee it. People would not stop listening to music if the internet went away and you couldn't get it all free or through a "dirt-cheap-screw-the-artist" streaming service. But geesh, tell the world it's wrong to rip people off and a hissy fit ensues by the freeloading masses.

 

Ha, I love to browse in old bookstores. This one is HUGE. Owned by an eccentric guy with lava lamps all over the place. Nice feel to the place. I starting to get way from the iPad as a reader. I was getting SOS magazine in digital format and I found I wasn't reading them as much. I think I'm going back to a printed copy from now on.. I'll occasionally download a book, but I still like my real books

 

I guess I'm one of those giving his music away for free. They still won't listen to it .

 

Since music is more of an aural medium the same things that apply to books might not apply to music?

[Rudi]

On 28/01/2017 at 0:58 PM, starise said:

I guess I'm one of those giving his music away for free. They still won't listen to it .

 

Me too.

 

As for albums. Probably no point these days. But albums formed my musical past in no small measure. So I still aspire to producing something of my own in that format. Why? Too stupid to know any better.

[Steve]

On 05/02/2017 at 6:58 PM, Rudi said:

 

Me too.

 

As for albums. Probably no point these days. But albums formed my musical past in no small measure. So I still aspire to producing something of my own in that format. Why? Too stupid to know any better.

 

 

I suppose those of us that grew up buying albums, will have a desire to produce an album! I see nothing wrong with that ambition! People still buy albums, even if it's just a download.

 

AND.

 

Compiling an album is a good exercise in itself! Gathering together a collection of your very best songs is a good motivation!

[McnaughtonPark]

My boss calls me a Luddite.  Sometimes he has a point.  

 

I like albums. I still flip through the deep rows of records when I find them.  And though it doesn't work as well as it did when I first bought it, in Japan, my old stereo still sounds better than any set of ear buds. Plus, the double albums had a dual purpose that you can't get with an ipod.

 

 

[MonoStone]

1 hour ago, HoboSage said:

Maybe not directly on topic, but I thought this was interesting.

 

https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2015/12/17/computer-speakers-now-most-popular-way-people-listen-to-music#.WJ2_cTsrLic

 

I suppose 'computer speakers' means the really really nasty built in ones (EDIT yep they do actually say that. Why anyone would bother is beyond me, you're better off just humming the friggin tune to yourself) Some gaming speakers sound great, but I'm doubting that's what they mean.

 

I reckon it's always been the case that the majority don't care much about sound quality...but... yep, almost everyone used to have a hifi, and even the cheapo ones sounded a million times better than built in computer speakers. My mum n dad's old hifi from the 70s sounded ACE, I kept it for many years (since they apparently stopped listening to music after having kids)... wish I'd never replaced it.

 

I kind of feel some degree of hatred towards anyone who listens to music through built in laptop speakers or those crappy earbuds (Although genuine iPhone earbuds actually sound quite good.), out of choice. I think they shouldn't be allowed to listen to music. Just sayin.

 

 

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, HoboSage said:

Maybe not directly on topic, but I thought this was interesting.

 

https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2015/12/17/computer-speakers-now-most-popular-way-people-listen-to-music#.WJ2_cTsrLic

 

I found it interesting that people don't listen to music at all in their cars anymore. Is that true I wonder? Or do they now use computer speakers in cars and they're grouping them in with that? Of course I can't overlook it's on a tech website, what else would they be promoting?

[Alistair]

18 hours ago, Steve said:

 

 

I suppose those of us that grew up buying albums, will have a desire to produce an album! I see nothing wrong with that ambition! People still buy albums, even if it's just a download.

 

AND.

 

Compiling an album is a good exercise in itself! Gathering together a collection of your very best songs is a good motivation!

 

What Steve said.

 

For me. I have loads of songs that I have never recorded. Rather than just recording them randomly and putting out endless single recordings, grouping them as an album gives me more purpose and a little more urgency. 

 

But I am talking about Soundcloud digital albums these days. I'm done with creating physical CDs and artwork. I used to burn CDs to sell or give away at gigs but I don't really do gigs anymore and I can reach more people via the web.

 

Thinking of the songs as an album also makes me approach recording in a different way. Nick and I did the Box of Goats album with a full production. That led me to do my next album 'Charm Offensive' as stripped down as possible. The next one 'A Walk In The Park' was a set of songs McNaughton Park and I wrote together. The one after that 'Rose Tinted Spectacle' was a re-recorded retrospective of songs I had written in the 80s. My next set 'The Slow Reveal' is appearing gradually on Soundcloud as I get round to recording or writing the tracks. And I know what the next two albums after that will be. 

[Alistair]

2 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

I found it interesting that people don't listen to music at all in their cars anymore. Is that true I wonder? Or do they now use computer speakers in cars and they're grouping them in with that? Of course I can't overlook it's on a tech website, what else would they be promoting?

 

I mostly listen to music in my car!

[Alistair]

Oh, and I listen to about 200 new albums a year by other people.

[Steve]

On 10/02/2017 at 4:55 PM, Alistair said:

 

I mostly listen to music in my car!

 

So do I.  I have a 6 CD changer in the car, and I am constantly burning CDs to listen to! I find it the most relaxing place to listen. At home, I only have the computer and headphones. Which is great! Until somebody starts talking to you!  I love listening to music in the car!

[Just1L]

On February 10, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Alistair said:

 

I mostly listen to music in my car!

 

Yeah, me too. That was kind of what I was getting at. I found it interesting that listening in the car didn't even crack the top 10. Which means, in my eyes, it's all phooey meant for tech promotion for one thing or the other. Tech companies are the "original" fake news spreaders. Do this, buy that, this is the future, everyone is doing this or that … say it enough and for long enough and people will start to feel old and out of touch or even uncool, even though they shouldn't, and start buying tech gear just to keep up with the lesser quality society. And it works like a charm. Hell, right now, people think politics are the worst ever when in reality it's "business as usual". Go back through the decades and it's the same b.s. There's even been cases where a person had their opponent killed. Nothing new to see, just the way we see it.

[MonoStone]

3 hours ago, Just1L said:

I found it interesting that listening in the car didn't even crack the top 10. Which means, in my eyes, it's all phooey meant for tech promotion for one thing or the other.

 

I dunno... maybe the car things is BS but ...I know so many people who listen on laptop speakers, or through really nasty cheap earbuds, or tablet speaker. I sent a link to one of my songs to my business partner a while back, I asked what she was listening on and she said the laptop... I said 'on earphones?'...'no' she says 'I don't have any earphones'.... 'Speakers to plug in?'... 'No, don't own any'...  I told her she wasn't allowed to listen again. My wife does listen to music in the car, but so quietly that all she can hear is the tinny top end, and otherwise she listens on ...laptop speakers... or phone speaker, or some earbuds that have literally no bass... 

 

I'm sure a lot of people really do listen in car... they must do... but I reckon they're not far wrong about the laptop speakers because people spend more time on laptops/tablets than driving. And overall, probably right in that the majority don't really care about the sound quality.

[Richard Tracey]

33 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

I dunno... maybe the car things is BS but ...I know so many people who listen on laptop speakers, or through really nasty cheap earbuds, or tablet speaker. I sent a link to one of my songs to my business partner a while back, I asked what she was listening on and she said the laptop... I said 'on earphones?'...'no' she says 'I don't have any earphones'.... 'Speakers to plug in?'... 'No, don't own any'...  I told her she wasn't allowed to listen again. My wife does listen to music in the car, but so quietly that all she can hear is the tinny top end, and otherwise she listens on ...laptop speakers... or phone speaker, or some earbuds that have literally no bass... 

 

I'm sure a lot of people really do listen in car... they must do... but I reckon they're not far wrong about the laptop speakers because people spend more time on laptops/tablets than driving. And overall, probably right in that the majority don't really care about the sound quality.

 

I listen to music in the car whenever I'm out and about. My car has decent speakers though.

 

Normally I will listen to music through the Sonos or my headphones. I have good headphones though so don't mind. It means I can crank the music up and no-one has to hear it.... especially when I'm trialling one of my own songs.

 

My wife doesn't tend to listen to music much, but when she does it's on cheap headphones, in the car or on the Sonos when no-one is in. She tends to listen to Radio 2 a lot.

 

I bought the kids headphones and they have a decent Bluetooth speaker, but they would rather listen to it through their iPhone speakers!!!!! 

[john]

Careful David, the last person to approach such an observation ruffled some feathers, and was told in no uncertain terms to cluck off.

 

Sorry. Couldn't resist  

[PleaseKeepUpright]

To the original topic, for me, there's an artistic motivation on my part to push out albums instead of EPs or singles. It's instinctual, I suppose, I'm used to listening to full albums rather than cherry picking songs I like (which is what I do after running through the whole thing). Now, I do see the success in people doing EPs and non-album singles without an album in their discography. I know a few people personally that do this with more of a following than my band shoving out albums with as modest an audience as you can get. But even still, there's something about putting together an album that's a lot more meaningful and rewarding for me. EPs and singles are a quick buzz; albums are the full trance. 

 

Now, if we're talking economics, yeah, burning endless CDs is a pain in the ass. I don't produce CDs, my band's album discography is free for digital download on Soundcloud, so it'd be easier for me to sit here and be so pro-album when I don't actually press physical copies. So if that's what you want to do, that's a roadblock in and of itself. Nevertheless, there's always a point to making an album. There's a point to making EPs and singles too. It depends on what you're trying to achieve with that album as to whether its worth it. My band may only receive the acclaim of 30-some-odd people, but I don't regret making albums at all.

 

...Except for our first album. That one needs to be condemned. 

[starise]

If I'm in the city I see lots of commuters using headphones. Those are usually at least the quality of what you get with an iphone. There are some who listen every day and invest in a nicer pair of ear buds. Pretty much any college student or commuting yuppie has a setup like that.

 

Millions of commuters in cars. Think about it, there isn't much to do in a car aside from driving. Either gab to someone over a bluetooth connection or listen to talk radio/music. I suspect that this is where an interest in an artist starts. This is true in my case. I create channels in Pandora and it streams all relevant artists via my phone to bluetooth in the car. If I happen to hear one I really like I'll seek that artist. Here's the kicker though. Pandora is like 5.00 a month and it's unlimited anything I want, so if I like an artist, why would I go to iTunes/Amazon? 

 

I don't personally like over the air radio very much for music. Why listen to what they pick for me when I can listen to anything I want? The constant commercials are also a real pain. I mostly use it for weather and news/ talk radio.I had XM radio for awhile, but I like Pandora more because XM is still a playlist of limited genre.

 

I hadn't realized this until recently. When was the last time you looked for a basic radio? I was looking for one as a gift and all you can find anymore is bluetooth. It's even tough to find a portable CD player. The world has pretty much gone bluetooth including me. I can take my phone from my car and connect it via Alexa or one of my other basic bluetooth players I have, heck I even have one that floats for the pool

 

Bluetooth streaming seems to be the way it has gone. iTunes and Amazon seem to be the two main ones aside from Pandora. If I were looking to make money I would post to one of those and put myself in a place that a music meta crawler could easily find me if someone searches " indie rock" or " acoustic". They won't ever look for you specifically. Likely your song will pop up through a search.

 

 

[MonoStone]

12 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

The survey isn't about where people listen to music, but how they do.  I suspect listening in a car is covered by listening via "radio" and listening via earbuds and portable MP3 players and smartphones consistent with Tim's observations during his commutes.  BTW, the trend for automobile makers is to not even bother putting CD players in cars anymore. But, maybe they've fallen victim to the false propaganda fostered by evil, lying tech companies too.  

 

You still goin on about this? 

 

 

[Alistair]

Who cares what the survey says, I want to talk about making albums!