Is there a point to making an album?

[starise]

I'm making the assumption that the reason most people desire to make an album is to make money. Maybe some of it could be attributed to  personal aspiration. 

 

The question, " Is there a point to making an album ?" could probably be restated, can I make money with my music? So this isn't about an album, this is about money.

Some people might say. " I want to make money, how can I do that?" IOW, they just want to make money and they are looking at whatever means they find to do that. Artistic

pursuits aside. 

 

 

To rationalize it we could say, " I spend a lot of time making my music, can I also make money at it?" This makes sense to a musician. If you approach it like, " I'll make music anyways. If I make money great." I think this is more healthy approach, or if you say, " Making money is part of my long term music plan". Be positive, but be realistic. I think making it a necessity is an unhealthy approach.

 

If you say, " If I can't make money, I won't make music." You probably don't belong in music, go make pizzas for a living or something.

 

I used Pandora as an example. They have a free version with commercials. I'm not sure exactly how the artist benefits. Pandora are like so many other companies who use others talent and resources to make money. Uber/lyft are good examples of that. Use YOUR car and YOUR gas. Works out to less than minimum wage.

 

The plus is society has to be in good shape to support these kinds of things for both artist and listener. When a society can rise above survival to take time for the arts we're doing pretty good! We can now live better than the victorians.

[Rudi]

Money? Not how I read the OP at all.

 

The album concept was long player vinyl. You can get more on a CD, but mostly artists dont. So this 20 minutes per side has stuck ever since. CDs are now only for us geezers who think we have to be able to see what we've bought.

 

This cloud stuff is all very well, but what happens on a clear day? Stuffed then aren't ya?

[chumpy]

In my case (I created this topic) I have zero desire to try to make money from music. The music industry is a monster that has historically screwed artists and ripped of their customers. I'm glad they're getting disrupted, couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of snakes.

 

What I would like is to have my music heard by more people. I was mostly looking at the question of making an album from that perspective. The album format was dictated by the 'Long Play' record format, it wasn't created because it was the best way for consumers to hear music. I'm starting to think that the EP length is more digestible length for listeners. 

 

[Alistair]

If you post a link to your online music I will gladly listen to it.

 

But if I have to wait six aeons for a physical album I probably won't.

[Richard Tracey]

37 minutes ago, chumpy said:

In my case (I created this topic) I have zero desire to try to make money from music. The music industry is a monster that has historically screwed artists and ripped of their customers. I'm glad they're getting disrupted, couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch of snakes.

 

What I would like is to have my music heard by more people. I was mostly looking at the question of making an album from that perspective. The album format was dictated by the 'Long Play' record format, it wasn't created because it was the best way for consumers to hear music. I'm starting to think that the EP length is more digestible length for listeners. 

 

 

This is why I mentioned about singles and EP's being seen as the new norm. Yes, artists will still want to do an album as that is an end goal. But an EP or single are quicker and can be released on a more regular basis to keep fans wanting to keep listening.

 

In this day and age, it is all about getting something out to keep people wanting to listen to you, or hey move on to something else. That's why you get 2 or 3 albums a year from some of the new acts the Record companies want to throw down our throats. They want to make as much money off them, before people realise it is the same shit regurgitated in a different look.

[Just1L]

52 minutes ago, chumpy said:

What I would like is to have my music heard by more people. I was mostly looking at the question of making an album from that perspective. The album format was dictated by the 'Long Play' record format, it wasn't created because it was the best way for consumers to hear music. I'm starting to think that the EP length is more digestible length for listeners. 

 

 

So based on this I misinterpreted the question. I was thinking of Album as being some sort of physical product, i.e. CD/Vinyl/etc… Now I understand it as just a group of songs, maybe with a certain theme tying them together? Or, is it the just the actual number of songs grouped together? Technically if you have all your songs available on Soundcloud, boom, there's your album/EP. Done. Use their album feature like Alistair does and you're good to go.

 

Now, if the main goal is definitely to have your music heard by more people I would take more to mean as many as possible. So in that case you have your online album. Now do a CD for those that are still into CDs. Do a vinyl version for those still listening to vinyl. Get your songs on all the streaming services. Get them on local radio stations if you can as well as internet stations and so on an so forth.

 

Promote everything on every single social site available, there's at least about 200 of them.

[Alistair]

Some of my Soundcloud albums were actual physical CDs. Everything up to Charm Offensive was. Though I have tinkered with Hidden Talent by adding and subtracting tracks. It's a compilation in any case.

[starise]

2 hours ago, Rudi said:

This cloud stuff is all very well, but what happens on a clear day? Stuffed then aren't ya?

 

You plan for that kind of thing by downloading the tunes and burning it to a CD  "Stuffed" must be a British expression. If I hear that said around here, it usually means someone ate too much turkey.

 

Chumpy I see your point. When I hear album I think income generation. Maybe that idea has changed? I also tend to think of an album as a hard copy. I mean, when I go to buy a physical copy it's a lot different than buying online to download or stream. For one thing, individual tracks are offered for sale. Maybe this is one of the problems. If they didn't offer that option people would buy the whole album. I'm not sure if the vinyl single came first? Then at some point the record companies said , " We can make more money if we offer a collection from the artist". In some cases maybe single tracks only available on an album? Some people would buy an album for one or two songs.

 

Calling it an album is accurate in one sense, yet in another sense it isn't because it isn't mostly sold as a collection online. If I bought an album of 15 tracks and only wanted two, that's pretty much like the woman who went on a diet and lost 10 pounds. The diet costed her 1000 dollars. So it realistically costed her 100.00 a pound

 

[Just1L]

5 minutes ago, Alistair said:

Some of my Soundcloud albums were actual physical CDs. Everything up to Charm Offensive was. Though I have tinkered with Hidden Talent by adding and subtracting tracks. It's a compilation in any case.

 

So as someone who has actually made a physical CD, what are your thoughts on that? Would you say it was a waste of time? After doing both types, CD/virtual, which do you think helped you the most?

[Just1L]

11 minutes ago, starise said:

Calling it an album is accurate in one sense, yet in another sense it isn't because it isn't mostly sold as a collection online. If I bought an album of 15 tracks and only wanted two, that's pretty much like the woman who went on a diet and lost 10 pounds. The diet costed her 1000 dollars. So it realistically costed her 100.00 a pound

 

 

I def hear what you're saying. When I used to buy albums, especially from a newer group, it was based on a song or two I heard on the radio. Using Van Halen as an example, it's those songs that weren't on the radio, the deep tracks, that I truly loved more than the hit songs played on the radio. In a way I felt like I was getting the "true" Van Halen, not just the songs that were destined to become hits or singles. Radios were playing "You Really Got Me", I was cranking "Ice Cream Man". 

 

Of course by and large a lot of songs on a lot of albums by a lot of bands ended up feeling like filler material sounding relatively uninspired compared to their hits.

[starise]

I loved VH. I remember buying  cassette tapes for the same reason you did. Back then , they didn't sell cassette singles, and yeah, most of the other tracks were not something I would have bought. To make it worse, it was difficult to locate the tracks I liked on cassette. When I bought my first car deck that had search capability I was in cassette tape heaven....until the buggar unwound inside the machine. Amazing how the focus changes over time from  a car and girls to a real life with kids and a family. Bills, a mortgage and a full time job. Maybe the theme for a song.

 

Two different listeners there.

 

One has no bills and some disposable income. Exactly why so many bands are marketed toward that crowd by record companies. They're too young to reminisce about anything other than diapers.

 

The other is rushed and usually over worked..in a word stressed. If I were working the top down I might ask what that crowd like to hear. They like to sometimes remember the "good old days" , in fact, some of them won't shut up about it and refuse to look ahead  

[Alistair]

18 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

So as someone who has actually made a physical CD, what are your thoughts on that? Would you say it was a waste of time? After doing both types, CD/virtual, which do you think helped you the most?

 When I say 'made' a physical CD, I mean that I made it rather than having it professionally pressed and printed.

 

Take the Box of Goats album 'Universal Theory Of Everything'. That took roughly 9 months to make, on and off, spread across many evenings, recording all the different parts at Nick's house. We had recorded two tracks in a studio, were starting to gig, and needed something to give to venues to get us more gigs and to sell at gigs to anyone who wanted one. So an album was the logical thing to do as we already had loads of songs and we needed a physical product. It was fun making an album, at least to start with, though I think we ran out of steam towards the end and there are a couple of tracks that are not really finished.

 

I designed the cover, burned and printed labels on to the CDs. We got played on the radio on the back of sending one in to the local radio station and I probably sold about 20-30 at gigs. That's not many. On the other hand I don't have boxes of unwanted 10 year old albums sitting at home either. I just made enough copies for what we needed. At least those who bought the album might have listened to it. I doubt they would have if we had just given them a link to Soundcloud - the moment would have been gone by then.

 

Was it a waste of time? Well, no, it was hard work - but enjoyable work - and that's not the same thing. Whether you release physically or online you still have to make the recordings and, as I said previously, an album gives you a purpose and a focus that releasing single tracks doesn't. I don't miss all the printing of labels and burning of CDs though.

 

I didn't make an album to make money and unsurprisingly I didn't make any! All my Soundcloud material can be downloaded for free, though it is generally not because why would you if you can come back and listen any time (or, it's crap!)?. What I do know is that many, many more people around the world have listened to my music online than ever did to the physical CDs or the cassette albums I made in my bedroom 35 years ago - and that's the main thing for me.

[Chicken picker]

On 1/20/2017 at 1:14 PM, Richard Tracey said:

 

There are still many old and new artists making the typical album - I was just meaning the 'pop' artists that are ten a penny at the moment. I love finding an album where every song on it has been crafted to perfection and there isn't a dull song on the track list.

 

I realize I'm late to this conversation and likely inserting some serious thread drift by quoting from several pages back, but I wanted to respond to this comment. I recently picked up Miranda Lambert's new 2 disc release, and there are maybe 4 to 5 songs out of 23-26 (can't remember which, but it was a lot) that I wasn't immediately happy to hear. That handful of songs has also grown on me after a few plays, so I'd say this whole collection is a home run. In all honesty, I've never owned a single CD with so many good songs on it. 

 

Now onto the first topic, I almost never purchase physical music anymore. This is my first purchase in a very long time. Some of those reasons are because I don't have the equipment at home to enjoy playing them. I am slowly moving up in the world that way and now have a vehicle with a CD player, but at the same time have a smart phone that connects with the stereo system. Here's the real problem. I do have a Google Play subscription, so can download and play anything I want from their catalog. But, on my hour commutes to school, the car drops the connection to the phone, or the phone drops connection to Google, and then I find myself mid-song and mid-commute not being able to get back to it while driving. It frustrated me enough times that I said, "forget this nonsense," and went for the physical copy of something I'd heard enough times digitally that I knew was worth paying for the hard copy. On top of that, it's a far better quality sound. Double bonus. Just wanted to add in a perspective that hasn't yet been  noted. Also, radio doesn't really take care of the commuter market that well. I'm in the Chicago area, and while we have some great radio stations, there is music here you never hear on the radio that gets played to death elsewhere in the country. I can think of a few rock bands that qualify. For one, I almost never hear anything from Yes. They stick to mostly top 40 rock or pop or country, and that's all you get. It's very limiting for everyone with musical tastes that span the many genres available today. This is why owning the CD is still most attractive for anyone who does drive long distance to work or school. A niche market to keep in mind, and potential way of targeting those customers.

[john]

12 hours ago, Chicken picker said:

 

I realize I'm late to this conversation and likely inserting some serious thread drift by quoting from several pages back, but I wanted to respond to this comment. I recently picked up Miranda Lambert's new 2 disc release, and there are maybe 4 to 5 songs out of 23-26 (can't remember which, but it was a lot) that I wasn't immediately happy to hear. That handful of songs has also grown on me after a few plays, so I'd say this whole collection is a home run. In all honesty, I've never owned a single CD with so many good songs on it. 

 

Now onto the first topic, I almost never purchase physical music anymore. This is my first purchase in a very long time. Some of those reasons are because I don't have the equipment at home to enjoy playing them. I am slowly moving up in the world that way and now have a vehicle with a CD player, but at the same time have a smart phone that connects with the stereo system. Here's the real problem. I do have a Google Play subscription, so can download and play anything I want from their catalog. But, on my hour commutes to school, the car drops the connection to the phone, or the phone drops connection to Google, and then I find myself mid-song and mid-commute not being able to get back to it while driving. It frustrated me enough times that I said, "forget this nonsense," and went for the physical copy of something I'd heard enough times digitally that I knew was worth paying for the hard copy. On top of that, it's a far better quality sound. Double bonus. Just wanted to add in a perspective that hasn't yet been  noted. Also, radio doesn't really take care of the commuter market that well. I'm in the Chicago area, and while we have some great radio stations, there is music here you never hear on the radio that gets played to death elsewhere in the country. I can think of a few rock bands that qualify. For one, I almost never hear anything from Yes. They stick to mostly top 40 rock or pop or country, and that's all you get. It's very limiting for everyone with musical tastes that span the many genres available today. This is why owning the CD is still most attractive for anyone who does drive long distance to work or school. A niche market to keep in mind, and potential way of targeting those customers.

 

Late, maybe, but a good contribution Chicken Picker

[starise]

Good points to ponder Chicken Picker. 

 

I  have had the occasional drop out with bluetooth connections so I can relate to that frustration. A few things that helped me were- Putting the phone on charge in the car. If the battery is low the bluetooth signal might be weak. If your car allows for direct connection use that instead. Location of the phone to the radio is important. At the very least I remove the phone and put it close to the receiver. I suspect Chicago has a lot of radio interference like most big cities, so maybe none of this will help, or maybe you've already tried it all. Some phones have a very poor ability to connect compared to others. A cheap android might not do as well as a better phone would. Data roaming setting would also be important here. If you aren't using data roaming you'll likely loose the connection.

 

Though I don't often listen to CD's anymore I've been very tempted to get the Time life  set of CD's. It's a collection that covers every song that made it for the last 50 years. Don't know if you've heard of it? That seemed like something worth having, although it's all been "professionally remastered". That could be a red flag.Sometimes remasters aren't as good as the originals.

 

 If I go to hear a small act somewhere and I like what they do I'll almost always buy their CD. Then I listen to it two or three times and somehow the case gets separated from the CD and the CD gets scratched. At some point a few month later I'll hit the CD eject button to see what was in there or hit play

[Rudi]

I have purged about 30 cds from my collection, but still have about 800. I do buy cds still. I have all of them digitally stored also, but keep the cds because I dont trust the ipod & hard drives not to go pffffiiiizzzz.... one day.

 

No Tim. Not heard of Time Life CDs. I take it they are not a band. A religious label?

On 22/02/2017 at 5:17 PM, starise said:

a collection that covers every song that made it for the last 50 years

 

every song that made it? Did you mean' it made'?

[starise]

2 hours ago, Rudi said:

No Tim. Not heard of Time Life CDs. I take it they are not a band. A religious label?

 

This isn't  religious music. I see the Time/Life music collection over here in the US sometimes touted  on public TV as a way to raise revenue, or on an infomercial. 

 

They sell collections of around 10 CDs. with hundreds of songs in any given genre. If someone wanted to own all of the hits in a ten year segment, say 70's rock, you could buy that collection, but as I mentioned, I've read a few reviews on these and some people don't like the way they were put together. These would be the songs that got the most radio play on the radio during the time period. They must be ok overall though because they sell a lot of these collections. 

http://timelife.com/?gclid=CjwKEAiAuc_FBRD7_JCM3NSY92wSJABbVoxBVdBZn1ex_zOPzQm1d8ovMrs4Z9f7jV-iE95ni5MkJBoChrHw_wcB

 

Music collections might be another way to raise interest interest in music. We could make one for the artists here and call it, " All The Good Stuff You Never Heard".

 

2 hours ago, Rudi said:

every song that made it? Did you mean' it made'?

 

" Made it", meaning became popular. Don't forget, I flunked English class. 

[Rudi]

2 hours ago, starise said:

" Made it", meaning became popular. Don't forget, I flunked English class. 

 

Ah... of course! I should have realised.

 

The 'classic album' or multi-original album sets are pretty good value if you are into particular artists.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_7/253-5331218-2144620?url=search-alias%3Dpopular&field-keywords=classic+albums+box+sets&sprefix=classic%2Cpopular%2C349&crid=3KDKG9F4HL6L0

 

2 hours ago, starise said:

These would be the songs that got the most radio play on the radio during the time period.

Popular radio / playlists etc ! ! Just listen to Radio 2, that just keeps re-serving up the same stuff from the last 60 years anyway

[starise]

I like a few of those offerings, only I can't buy it because I don't have British money .

 

In your example that's about .20 per song give or take in a 5 CD collection at around 10 euros.. Not a bad deal for the purchaser. 

In some cases the artist is long dead.  These sets seem aimed at the nostalgic buyer. Not the up and coming, cutting edge new music buyer.

 

Stubborn old coots are wary of parting with their hard earned money on something new and untested.

 

If a person wants to make an album though, I say, " just do it". The tech is there now to make a master at home, upload it, sell hard copies if you want. 

 

 

 

 

[Rudi]

I'd just rather give them away.