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So my SIAB (Studio In A Box) has died and lots of in work projects are just whats left in my memory. The unit, a Boss BR1600HD has been struggling for weeks now, and today just lost the battle.

 

I want to continue to record. I need another means of doing so. I am not familiar with using a PC for this. Failure in the past was the main driver for me to get a dedicated unit. These are now no longer available. Google doesn't even recognise 'SIAB' anymore.

 

So unless anyone knows better, I guess I need to look at PC or MAC recording again (my laptop is unlikely to be much use). A mixer, and some software at least.

 

I already have headphones, NFMs & Microphones (and a keyboard, though that needs replacing also). So I need advice as to what route to head down. Ideally it needs to be as simple as possible. I will worry about budget later, once I have  some options to look at. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Rudi said:

So my SIAB (Studio In A Box) has died and lots of in work projects are just whats left in my memory. The unit, a Boss BR1600HD has been struggling for weeks now, and today just lost the battle.

 

I want to continue to record. I need another means of doing so. I am not familiar with using a PC for this. Failure in the past was the main driver for me to get a dedicated unit. These are now no longer available. Google doesn't even recognise 'SIAB' anymore.

 

So unless anyone knows better, I guess I need to look at PC or MAC recording again (my laptop is unlikely to be much use). A mixer, and some software at least.

 

I already have headphones, NFMs & Microphones (and a keyboard, though that needs replacing also). So I need advice as to what route to head down. Ideally it needs to be as simple as possible. I will worry about budget later, once I have  some options to look at. 

 

 

 

Hi Rudi - it depends on how much you want to use the other options in a DAW - Reaper and Reason Essentials are fairly cheap (I recently bought Reason Essentials for £49 off Amazon). The other thing is what type of PC and how much juice you will want. Music production takes a lot of RAM/CPU and you would want a reasonably fast hard drive to access the files. You then have to decide whether to go PC or MAC - MAC will be more expensive, but I find it better to work with. You then need to work out which interface you would need.

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Looking for gear to record a band playing together, multiple tracks at a time? Or just track by track stuff? I don't have experience with the former so just checking before I ramble on... 

 

 

 

 

Edited by MonoStone
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Thank you all for the responses folks. I just may try to find a 2nd hand replacement in the meantime, but these are also prone to failure. So I'm looking to the future also. I do need to gen up and understand what all you others are doing. I have checked out a couple of articles here. One by John and another by Steve Perrett. I will likely phone Steve before much longer to pick his brains.

 

I had checked out those links David but its just as well you added them because I had skimped over the HD replacement option. Its worth a try. :thumbsup2: Even it it doesnt work its worth the attempt.

 

The fist link describes my problem exactly. I deleted a corrupted song.  It deleted, then the loading screen appeared and I couldnt quit out of it. I did 3 power downs (pulling the plug - but no other choice). Then I connected it up to my laptop (Windows 7) but it was not seeing the BR device at all.

 

Since posting here, I checked out ebay. There are old BR1600s out there, but apparently these HD devices need regular formatting. My original manuals never told me that. So I never did this in the 10 years I had it. This is more work than it sounds. Backing up one song took 6 hours onto 15 x Write-DVDs. So after backing up all the song work data, I would have to format the drive, reload all the songs, reload the onboard drums and loop-phrase files before I could get recording again.  I've since wondered about the smaller memory card BRs?

 

At the moment I dont know which way to jump, but MS, I will nevermore record a whole band at once, but just do my own stuff as you do. I just would rather go for whatever option that could get me up and running without lots of faffing about. I need to do research, but any further pointers are gratefully received.

 

Cheers fellers

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rudi said:

At the moment I dont know which way to jump, but MS, I will nevermore record a whole band at once, but just do my own stuff as you do. I just would rather go for whatever option that could get me up and running without lots of faffing about. I need to do research, but any further pointers are gratefully received.

 

I used to use the Boss BR900, which I expect is a much smaller version of your Boss. It sounded great, but everything took forever... and then it started playing up telling me the disk was corrupt or some such nonsense, to the point where I'd have recorded several takes and found none would play back. Maybe it only needed a new disk but I'd had enough, it was time to move on, and I'd only been using the Boss to record vocals and guitar which I then USB'd to PC to drop into Reason 4 (R4 had no audio recording of its own).... So... I ditched the Boss and got Reason 8 (Reason 9 is out now).

 

Using a DAW without the old hardware is just quicker. Can't say it sounds better... I fractionally preferred the sound of the Boss recordings (but so fractionally that I'm not sure what was down to my imagination)... and the sound difference will depend on what audio interface (external sound card) you get. 

 

I got a Hackintosh to run Reason 8, but that was partly because I plan to also get Logic (Logic being Mac OS only, and real Macs being too expensive), Reason runs on PC or Mac. I'm only getting Logic so I can collaborate with a Logic using friend, and because I'm interested to know what all the fuss is about.... and so I can pretend to be oh so 'pro' ;)

 

I got a Focusrite 2i2 audio interface, which will record up to 2 inputs (so far only used one at a time). The focusrite is fine, and I'm told the new models are better. Everybody recommends them....and they're really cheap.

 

That's all you need. The computer being the expensive bit.... but I'm sure there are lots of options. Using Reason opens up options since it doesn't have to have Mac OS (although I run it on Mac OS)

 

You mentioned keyboard. I got an M-Audio Axiom, and it's really nice! Good value! I've not tried other controller keyboards but M-Audio is good.

 

Hope that's some help. Just keep in mind that if you go the windows route you'll be limited in DAWs that work... but I'm well happy with Reason. Just don't get Cubase...it's horrid to use!

 

Your choice of DAW might depend on how you'll use it too... you could look around forever for which DAW. Lots of personal preference around and some 'pro' kind of snobbery too no doubt.

 

Hope that's some help IF you choose to ditch the Boss. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MonoStone said:

I got a Hackintosh to run Reason 8, but that was partly because I plan to also get Logic (Logic being Mac OS only, and real Macs being too expensive),

 

Thats an emulator I assume.

Thanks for the info. Its encouraging...!

 

1 hour ago, HoboSage said:

What are the specs on your laptop?  

 

Its ASUS K53S

Core i7 2670QM CPU @ 2.2 GHz

6 GB RAM

64 bit

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Rudi said:

 

Thats an emulator I assume.

Thanks for the info. Its encouraging...!

 

 

Its ASUS K53S

Core i7 2670QM CPU @ 2.2 GHz

6 GB RAM

64 bit

 

 

A Hackintosh is a Mac made by some techies in a computer shop instead of made by Apple... It dual boots windows and Mac os... 

 

Your own computer sounds ok ... Check it against DAW minumum specs. 

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9 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

 

Your own computer sounds ok ... Check it against DAW minumum specs. 

 

I will. I imagine a sound card would be needed though.

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1 hour ago, Rudi said:

 

I will. I imagine a sound card would be needed though.

Absolutely. Thats what the focusrite (or your choice of audio interface) is. You don't need a new soundcard internally... The external audio interface does all that. Just plug it in the usb. 

 

I understand it's not all clear. I remember first setting up.

 

All you need is - 

 

A computer that meets minimum spec (check DAW spec) and an Audio Interface such as Focusrite 2i2. And of course DAW software installed.

 

That's all you need to replace your Boss. You don't need an internal soundcard and you don't need an external mixer. The DAW and audio interface do it all. 

 

I had a quick look at Reason spec. The minumum RAM is 4gb but you have 6gb... They recommend 8 but you're above the minimum. If you plan big arrangements more is better. 

 

You need minimum windows7, earlier windows won't work. 

 

Double check ... Don't take my word!!!... But you're probably good. You can at least try it and upgrade pc only if you feel the need. 

 

As Richard mentioned... I think you can get Reason essentials cheap and if you like it upgrade to full version. Essentials is a cut down version...not sure what is has in it...best check it records audio... Focusrites are cheap...if your computer meets spec you could be up and running for £140 total (i think reason essentials is about £60. Focusrite is about £80)

Edited by MonoStone
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58 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

As Richard mentioned... I think you can get Reason essentials cheap and if you like it upgrade to full version. Essentials is a cut down version...not sure what is has in it...best check it records audio... Focusrites are cheap...if your computer meets spec you could be up and running for £140 total (i think reason essentials is about £60. Focusrite is about £80)

 

I can confirm Reason essentials records audio - it has about 4 or 5 instruments and a load of effects etc. For £49 it is worth it to trial and if you aren't going to go down the route of major productions, it should be all you need. I have picked it up fairly quickly, although I am still using and favouring Logic, even though it's a bloody pain with the CPU overloads issues.

 

I also have a M-Audio Axiom 49 key midi keyboard and Focusrite 2i2 - both are excellent for the price and Reason finds both straight away when installing and you can use the keyboard to control parts of Reason (record/play etc).

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Like others have said you mainly need a computer and an audio interface. Monitors would be very helpful. A mixer isn't so important for tracking one or two tracks since most all interfaces have some kind of input adjustments. Software also has a mixer you adjust inside the computer.

You can hook guitars and mics directly to the interface.

 

Some interfaces come with a starter version of software. Presonus gives you a basic copy of Studio One. That way you wouldn't need to invest  in software.No matter what interface you buy it should work with any software that's  PC. Mac maybe not. I can use anything with Sonar that is made to work with PC. I use a Presonus interface with it now.

 

My go to is Cakewalk Sonar Platinum . There are several versions of Sonar. There's a starter/beginner version that is less expensive and has a lot of features.

https://shop.cakewalk.com/1244/catalog/product.154987/language.en/currency.USD/?id=Nmj4250G79

 

No matter what you buy there will be a learning curve. It's not as bad as it might seem. They all come with good instructions to get you started.

 

 

 

 

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I've looked at quite a bit. DAWs, breakout boxes (I used to think this was some kind of genre!) and mixers.

 

Also at some dedicated recorders I didnt know about. Some Tascams are still available new. No onboard drums or loop phrases or even MIDI. Otherwise pretty comprehensive.

 

I need to forget all about it for a couple of days & get my head straight. :eusa_think:

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Mixcraft.

 

Honestly it's an inexpensive, yet powerful daw in an easy to use format.  If you want to you can set it up so it runs like ableton live without the headache and learning path.

 

I've posted a few times on mixcraft since purchasing and later upgrading to 7

http://forums.songstuff.com/topic/43798-just-bought-the-upgrade-to-mixcraft-7-pro/#comment-292856

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Just what you wanted. Another option.

Here's the whole sheebang. Computer audio interface and software.

 

http://www.tascam.com/news/display/12606/

 

http://videoandfilmmaker.com/wp/index.php/new-gear/tascam-track-factory-bundle-pc-included/

Edited by starise
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thanks Mike. thanks Tim.

 

now I have a couple of days off work to look into this again.

 

Meanwhile, I've decided to try & salvage what I can. I've contacted 2 PC firms about data recovery. Neither have replied.

 

I have ordered a replacement hard drive (difficult to find these now- all been superceded. So its an old one thats been reformatted) and won a ebay action for another br1600. I hope it arrives before I return to work or I'll have to wait 5 days before arranging re-delivery.

 

The plan is to replace the hard drive. When the new br1600 comes I will copy all the support files, drums and loop phrases to the laptop and in turn reinstall onto the new hard drive in my existing m/c. Then I can resume trying to find someone to recover the songs from the problem HD.

 

Today I took the back panel off the br1600 and removed the hard drive, EXCEPT for the ribbon data cable. I know these can be tricky to remove, so I'll wait and see whether the replacement drive comes with a ribbon cable. If so, it might be easier to remove the old one from the motherboard itself.

I just want to avoid damaging the unit by using excessive force trying to get the data cable off.

 

 

Tim,

The new Tascam m/c looks good but its not available in uk (yet). Looks expensive, but I'll wait n see.

 

Mike,

I'm going to check out your mixcraft links this afternoon.

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Good luck with it. You have a good plan there. The ribbon cable should be on a plug that pulls from the HDD, unless this is an unusual design. They can be tricky to remove. I certainly understand being cautious.

 

 

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Tascam was bought out by Gibson as was...Cakewalk.  The only major thing that's happened since then was new sounds added to cakewalk and subscription based system.. ie loanership as opposed to ownership.

 

For the big bucks all in one that no one can afford I'd say... MusicComputing 

 

The one thing I can strongly advise is... Get yourself an external sound card.

You may already have one and not know it....

http://line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/68624/

 

I already use my yamaha thr-c as my soundcard.

Some windows computers handle waveRT just fine my older computer does and some do not.  Some daws use outdated audio drivers for the internal card.  If you are using an external sound card use ASIO.   Yamaha products (including Line6) use asio as the soundcard driver.  It's a perfect match for my computer and soundcard.  WaveRT is the best when you don't have an external sound card.

 

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17 hours ago, TapperMike said:

Tascam was bought out by Gibson as was...Cakewalk.  The only major thing that's happened since then was new sounds added to cakewalk and subscription based system.. ie loanership as opposed to ownership.

 

Just an FYI. Cakewalk has paid to own forever versions. One really good version starts at only 49.00 You can even stop paying for the Platinum version and not loose it, you just won't get updates :)

I'm not sure if they still have the one price and get updates forever or not. I have that. A LOT has changed in only a year with that program. 

Just sayin'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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salvage update:

 

I got 2 cheap used Hard Drives yesterday (together with the second BR1600).

One HD is unusable because it has the wrong interface (SATA). The other is now fitted. However its showing up as 31gb instead of 80gb. Anyway it seems to work.

 

I set the jumpers as per the old ruined drive AB (master) and EF (cable select). Maybe the EF is not applicable? Dont know, but its working.

 

I did a quick format, then a surface scan (3 hours). I then backed up the drive to my laptop. I also backed up the new BR1600 to my laptop and compared them.

The only difference is the folder containing Loop Phrases. These are pre-installed on the BR.

 

This confirms that the OS and Drums are independent of the hard drives. So I copy the Loop Phrases into the newly formatted HD, but they dont show up in use. So I format yet again. I do have the Loop Phrases on CD though and after 20 minutes of faffing about find that this does work (these are WAV and AIFF format but show up as something else once in the BR).

 

However loading from CD is going to take ages as it cant be done en masse. So I am going to start this later this morning. I want to add them all in the original order because all my notes refer to them this way. I hope I finish before lunchtime.

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3 hours ago, Rudi said:

salvage update:

 

I got 2 cheap used Hard Drives yesterday (together with the second BR1600).

One HD is unusable because it has the wrong interface (SATA). The other is now fitted. However its showing up as 31gb instead of 80gb. Anyway it seems to work.

 

I set the jumpers as per the old ruined drive AB (master) and EF (cable select). Maybe the EF is not applicable? Dont know, but its working.

 

I did a quick format, then a surface scan (3 hours). I then backed up the drive to my laptop. I also backed up the new BR1600 to my laptop and compared them.

The only difference is the folder containing Loop Phrases. These are pre-installed on the BR.

 

This confirms that the OS and Drums are independent of the hard drives. So I copy the Loop Phrases into the newly formatted HD, but they dont show up in use. So I format yet again. I do have the Loop Phrases on CD though and after 20 minutes of faffing about find that this does work (these are WAV and AIFF format but show up as something else once in the BR).

 

However loading from CD is going to take ages as it cant be done en masse. So I am going to start this later this morning. I want to add them all in the original order because all my notes refer to them this way. I hope I finish before lunchtime.

 

This is great.news! Rudi the Boss tech! 

 

These things usually scare most people. In reality it isn't usually as bad as they think it is. A pain in the posterior maybe, but well worth it.

 

My only comparison would be the Roland VS880 I once had but sold. I loved it for what it did. 

 

Maybe the CD could load while you grab lunch or a show. Sure beats watching it :)

 

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