Coming Up With Good Lyrics

[starise]

You could call it anything and I wouldn't know ?

 

Ok you have my internal wheels spinning now, but I think they need lubrication.

 

 

[McnaughtonPark]

1 hour ago, Rudi said:

 

Know what? That's a great line.

 

I can hear the accents in the delivery & music behind it already. The ...'I-would-nt-know' part has equal accents and is stronger than the 'you-could-call-it-any-thing-and..' part. That's half the song right there!

I agree

 

I think Tim has written quite a few good lines as he has gone through this whole discussion.  They do have a common slant in being lost.

 

1 hour ago, starise said:

I can't use English identifiers though because as I said, I flunked English theory class

I don't understand what you mean here.  Are you saying you don't know what an adjective is?

 

[Rudi]

12 hours ago, McnaughtonPark said:

I don't understand what you mean here.  Are you saying you don't know what an adjective is?

 

How would he know?

 

and English Theory Class? Whats that?

We studied English Language. That's the whole verb, adverb, adjective palava.

 

Or is it the English that are theoretical?

[McnaughtonPark]

2 hours ago, Rudi said:

How would he know?

Theoretically, if it was up his arse he would know.  I wouldn't recommend that as a way of learning what an adjective is however, it might end up being humongous.  

[Rudi]

16 hours ago, McnaughtonPark said:

I agree

 

I think Tim has written quite a few good lines as he has gone through this whole discussion.  They do have a common slant in being lost.

 

 

 

A Found Lyric

 

How do you start? to feel through words?

How do you start? painting with words?

The poetry in these books invite you to the lair.

Makes like a picture with brush strokes here and there

 

I've had these nagging thoughts upstairs throughout the day,

It feels like having hiccups. They won't go away

Lay the options on the table and pick the best on show,

But you could call it anything and I wouldn't know. 

 

How do you start? To feel through words. 

How do you start? painting with words

I'm lost and I am looking for suggestions.

I get focused on the tools and miss the intention

 

I've had these nagging thoughts upstairs throughout the day,

I hope you understand. I don't mean this in a bad way

Lay the options on the table and pick the best on show,

But you could call it anything and I wouldn't know. 

 

 

I just as well been on Mars, and I wouldn’t know...

Dude, I'm over a half century old, and I wouldn’t know...

[McnaughtonPark]

English theorists.... what can you say?

 

Wonder how it would turn out with the cut-up, mash- up technique now.

 

The poetry in these books invite

and I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know.

I just mean this in a bad way

Lay the options on the table

miss the intention

I've had these do you start? Do you start?

Painting with words? Painting with words?

A half century old, and I and there

I've had these nagging

go away Lay the options on

I wouldn’t know... I wouldn’t know...

Dude, I'm over I hope you understand.

Hope you understand.

I don't a picture with brush strokes here on show,

But you could call But you could call it anything

A Found Lyric How do you and pick the best on show,

start? On show, start?

To feel through words? Feel through words?

How How do you start? Do you start? To feel you to the lair.

To the lair.

Makes like through words. Like through words.

How do you start? Do you start? Nagging thoughts upstairs throughout the day, as well been on Mars,

and the table and pick the best

get focused on the tools and it anything

and I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know.

Thoughts upstairs throughout the day,

It feels like having hiccups. Like having hiccups.

They won't painting with words

I'm lost

and I am looking for suggestions. Looking for suggestions. I.

[Alistair]

Another approach is not to worry too much about quality and write as many lyrics as you can. Many of them will be dross but parts of them might come in useful at a later date. Some of them will be good and then you have something to build on, to hone, to craft and develop.

 

What good looks like is so much in the eye of the beholder too, I have put lyrics here for critique and have had completely opposite feedback from different posters on the same lyric. Who is right? Ultimately I have to decide which feedback, if any, I prefer.

 

Sometimes, if I am happy with a lyric, I won't post it here.

 

'The perfect is the enemy of the good' - you just have to start.

 

In my younger days I used to just start writing and then work out what I meant later. Sometimes, believe it or not, that worked. Usually it didn't but it gave me something to use.

[starise]

Lay it out there, lay it out there,

in neat rows like corn, to digest one kernel at a time

in a never ending barrage of moving thought.

 

He's the lyric man

Makes people laugh and cry,  he feels it too.

Windblown time tested emotion for pennies or free.

 

He's the lyric man

channeling through his fingers what his mind thinks and his heart feels.

Will the inside laid bare be listened to in passing by disinterested ears?

 

He's the lyric man

Writing in no time zones he plans to stay outside them but can't escape

He doesn't belong here and he knows it.

 

He's the lyric man

What can be said that hasn't and done that didn't?

Different ways, different strokes, different plays.

 

He's the lyric man

Happiness, sadness and joy are but loops repeated in places less traveled

It never grows old but soon he will. His words will stay because

 

He's the lyric man

 

 

 

[starise]

Here's another attempt-

 

So here we are, and where is that? Somewhere in relation to somewhere else.

If we weren't here we would be there, and where is there?

There could be anywhere

 

Where is anywhere? It really doesn't matter, unless it matters to you.

 

Roots point at your feet from the other side of the ball, and people walk hurriedly looking at 

their small lifelines. What crazy place is this?

 

A person came to anywhere and made it somewhere. Two came along and stayed,

Somewhere for more. Why you say?

 

Somewhere for one. Why you say? 

 

No matter, you'll always be there.

 

And where is there?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rudi]

Tim, you hit it squarely on the nose.

 

However you did that. That's how its done.

 

#1 is good to go and works beautifully. One line at least will be difficult to sing (and maybe even to come across) but that's detail.

 

#2 is stuff you have to challenge yourself with. Does it work? Will it come across? You are pushing the limits; feeling where they are. Its necessary to do.

 

                                                                                                

 

[starise]

I should take this to the lyrics areas I suppose. Can you tell me, is this how you would go about it, or is this more poetry?

 

The Breeze

I'm a married man who will defend to the end his love and loyalty.

I didn't smell taste or touch, yet

something pulls me like gentle breezes catching sails.

Breezes can't be seen and are difficult to ignore. Especially beautiful fragrant breezes.

I caused winds of strangeness and oddity to counter the swell.

The breeze is still there. I chose to ignore it, chased by clouds, feelings fly like

gentle sparks from glowing embers in gentle fires along the beach.

The breeze is there like a persistant soul. No good can come from it.

Were we blown together in the passing of time? Fair skinned skipping across springtime creeks?

Breezes, like feelings are so unpredictable. 
 

[starise]

9 minutes ago, Rudi said:

Tim, you hit it squarely on the nose.

 

However you did that. That's how its done.

 

#1 is good to go and works beautifully. One line at least will be difficult to sing (and maybe even to come across) but that's detail.

 

#2 is stuff you have to challenge yourself with. Does it work? Will it come across? You are pushing the limits; feeling where they are. Its necessary to do.

 

Thanks Rudi. 

 

Also nice job of adding thought into lyrics on recent discussion. Mcnaughton Park nice also!!

[McnaughtonPark]

I didn't do that.  There are cut up engines on the internet where you can just copy and paste a lyric into and it spits it out.

[McnaughtonPark]

51 minutes ago, starise said:

I should take this to the lyrics areas I suppose. Can you tell me, is this how you would go about it, or is this more poetry?

 

The Breeze

I'm a married man who will defend to the end his love and loyalty.

I didn't smell taste or touch, yet

something pulls me like gentle breezes catching sails.

Breezes can't be seen and are difficult to ignore. Especially beautiful fragrant breezes.

I caused winds of strangeness and oddity to counter the swell.

The breeze is still there. I chose to ignore it, chased by clouds, feelings fly like

gentle sparks from glowing embers in gentle fires along the beach.

The breeze is there like a persistant soul. No good can come from it.

Were we blown together in the passing of time? Fair skinned skipping across springtime creeks?

Breezes, like feelings are so unpredictable. 
 

This is more poetry, the real test is if you are singing it to a melody.  If you are, then they are lyrics.  If not, you can sing some of it to a melody and edit the rest into your melody.  

[starise]

Thanks Mcnaughtonpark.

 

I worked a little more on "Lyric Man" since it seemed like the most developed idea. I ended up changing a bunch of it and re arranging it.It wasn't really as developed as I thought it was

I added an acoustic track to it which I initially liked. After it grew on me I didn't think it worked so I played around in the studio with ideas. Played a bass, rhythm and put in drums loops. It sounded ok but still wasn't a fit. That music will likely become something else. For a guy like me who is often off a few ticks in timing I've  taken a basic rhythm guitar/bass line and made a "groove clip" out of it. Once made they can be moved around and used just like loops...just an FYI to maybe help someone else stay solid in timing and it's helpful in arranging.

 

I'll post the end result when I have it further along on the lyrics page? Here's something I don't really understand here- When I see a song posted in the songs critique area, many times the lyrics are critiqued. That area is open to anything. I doubt I'll post anything without music, so it's confusing on where to post? 

 

Thanks everyone for all of the helpful ideas!

 

[MonoStone]

On 2/10/2017 at 6:40 PM, starise said:

I should take this to the lyrics areas I suppose. Can you tell me, is this how you would go about it, or is this more poetry?

 

The Breeze

I'm a married man who will defend to the end his love and loyalty.

I didn't smell taste or touch, yet

something pulls me like gentle breezes catching sails.

Breezes can't be seen and are difficult to ignore. Especially beautiful fragrant breezes.

I caused winds of strangeness and oddity to counter the swell.

The breeze is still there. I chose to ignore it, chased by clouds, feelings fly like

gentle sparks from glowing embers in gentle fires along the beach.

The breeze is there like a persistant soul. No good can come from it.

Were we blown together in the passing of time? Fair skinned skipping across springtime creeks?

Breezes, like feelings are so unpredictable. 
 

 

I reckon you could end up having to make big changes when you sing it. If you have the music first, it saves you that headache... jam out the melody and phrasing to get an idea of the number of syllables needed per line etc... otherwise you have to shoehorn the words into a tune OR write music to fit the words (which will be difficult unless they flow in a simple and kind of standard way... 

 

There are no rules... but with these words, with no obvious rhyming scheme and a fairly random number of syllables per line...unless you half speak them, I reckon you'll have your work cut out putting a tune to them...but who knows? No harm in trying stuff...

[starise]

7 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

I reckon you could end up having to make big changes when you sing it. If you have the music first, it saves you that headache... jam out the melody and phrasing to get an idea of the number of syllables needed per line etc... otherwise you have to shoehorn the words into a tune OR write music to fit the words (which will be difficult unless they flow in a simple and kind of standard way... 

 Yes I hear you. There seem to be trade offs in writing lyrics before a tune. The pros- A honing of the idea in more detail than might have been attempted.The cons- A writer needs to try and "shoehorn" things into place, although I have experienced this even at times when I'm playing and singing to make it fit. 

The one good thing that happened, for me at least, was doing a pre write helped me to better put the thoughts together. The above thoughts weren't really tangible until that write.

Now it needs to go through a Poetry/lyrics conversion. Probably won't end up anything like it was in original form. If I had simply grabbed a piano or a guitar and started wailing, I doubt I would have had things this concentrated.

[MonoStone]

4 minutes ago, starise said:

 Yes I hear you. There seem to be trade offs in writing lyrics before a tune. The pros- A honing of the idea in more detail than might have been attempted.The cons- A writer needs to try and "shoehorn" things into place, although I have experienced this even at times when I'm playing and singing to make it fit. 

The one good thing that happened, for me at least, was doing a pre write helped me to better put the thoughts together. The above thoughts weren't really tangible until that write.

Now it needs to go through a Poetry/lyrics conversion. Probably won't end up anything like it was in original form. If I had simply grabbed a piano or a guitar and started wailing, I doubt I would have had things this concentrated.

Swings n roundabouts  Yep I get you... it helps you have the idea there. Any way you choose is all good...

 

If you jam a vocal to the music though, you don't have to keep the jammed words... it just gives you a framework, knowing roughly where you might go with the words and what your restrictions will be, a melody to fit words to... so yep, swings n roundabouts  It's whatever feels comfortable to you. 

[starise]

Maybe you can relate to this as an instrumentalist.

The framework for many a song is predetermined by the instrument or method of choice, for instance, the easiest instrument for me to write on is the guitar because I can simply pick it up. No need to to wait for it to boot up. Most certainly the song in that case will be mellow which I had thought might work with this thought. If I boot up the computer and start adding drum parts, it's likely going to be pop or rock. This usually demands a more aggressive lyric. That audience doesn't need a deep poetic lyric. They want to party

Even if I pick up an electric guitar it's usually a more forward agressive song.

 

Piano can go either way. A soft ballad usually. I try to pick the best approach. Writing with a busy lyric means that I don't want to over complicate the music. A prog rock kind of thing usually has busy instrumentals in it and this doesn't allow for as much meaningful lyric. 1st time listen on that probably misses the meaning of it if the lyric is too complex.

 

Building up multiple parts over a lyric can be a real challenge. Too busy and it doesn't work. Too sparse usually isn't a problem personally, but society usually demands more interest as a whole. I don't write for 'society' though.

[MonoStone]

7 minutes ago, starise said:

Maybe you can relate to this as an instrumentalist.

The framework for many a song is predetermined by the instrument or method of choice, for instance, the easiest instrument for me to write on is the guitar because I can simply pick it up. No need to to wait for it to boot up. Most certainly the song in that case will be mellow which I had thought might work with this thought. If I boot up the computer and start adding drum parts, it's likely going to be pop or rock. This usually demands a more aggressive lyric. That audience doesn't need a deep poetic lyric. They want to party

Even if I pick up an electric guitar it's usually a more forward agressive song.

 

Piano can go either way. A soft ballad usually. I try to pick the best approach. Writing with a busy lyric means that I don't want to over complicate the music. A prog rock kind of thing usually has busy instrumentals in it and this doesn't allow for as much meaningful lyric. 1st time listen on that probably misses the meaning of it if the lyric is too complex.

 

Building up multiple parts over a lyric can be a real challenge. Too busy and it doesn't work. Too sparse usually isn't a problem personally, but society usually demands more interest as a whole. I don't write for 'society' though.

 

hmmm, well to be honest I think you're pigeon-holing a bit... I mean you can put very mellow music to a beat, or you can thrash out on an acoustic alone if you want...

 

First thing must be the goal... What you want out of it in the end. If that goal is just to do your best and enjoy it (as it is for me) then you do whatever you want to do, any way you want to. And I think it should be that way to an extent whatever your goal is, but for example if you wanted to be a country star in Nashville I'd guess there are more 'rules'. Or if you're writing celtic style folk (as I know you like to) then you probably best write on guitar and keep within certain guidelines, and just push them a bit rather than trying to re-write the 'rules' (for want of a better word).

 

If there are no rules... Just go for it, do what comes natural... why does it have to be a certain style or fit a certain 'method' (unless you're shooting to attract a certain audience)? And for example piano is used in so many different types of music jazz, rock, pop, club/dance...and many more...all kinds of music... and guitars are used in even more... and a 'beat' doesn't have to mean 'party time'  so your instrument of choice shouldn't dictate the type of music.... it's what you do with the instrument that counts   

Unless you are planning a certain path to a certain goal, I say grab whatever instrument you feel like grabbing, play it, and jam out a vocal melody to it. Go with the flow, let yourself go... (but my 'unless' statement is probably worth thinking about)