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Rob Ash

What does it mean to succeed?

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Ray888    158
10 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

I'm not sure if I'm getting what you mean fully, but like... when you say "Radio Ready" "Semi Prop" etc, could that be somewhat synonymous with "Fully produced large budget productions" "Bands that produce themselves and have a decent internet following" "Unknowns" ?  Cause that would be kind of cool, being able to pick the level of obscurity you want to browse by.   

 

Radio ready just means that it is well mixed and mastered to sound good on the many devices either portable, home hi fi, headphones or even a mono radio. Also it needs to be well written and sung to fall into the category of Radio ready. (In my eyes anyway) I have some songs that I co-wrote when I first came back to the industry after an 11 year break which I would definitely not class as radio ready but would come under the heading of "Semi pro" because when I came back it was like starting over again from scratch so I would work with anyone that would co-write with me, I was desperate lol. I can be a bit more choosey nowadays :001_smile:

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starise    366

I don't see everything as negative with respect to where this is all headed. We have agreements that determine the split between you and the record company/distributor. We have a digital means these companies can use to track your music through metadata both on you tube and elsewhere and this determines how much you get paid. It's all based on sales, so if you have sales you will get paid and they have accurate ways to track hat. The public usually determines what they think quality is with their money and plays. This should be a kind of survival of the fittest or a natural way the selection process works.I realize that the general public is steered with advertising to some extent. I don't think that's the whole picture though. 

I think lot's of folks simply think to themselves, "  I might like to hear some ***** music." What do they do? Go on YouTube? The record company has you set up to monetize there.

Search Google? See the first one lol. Pandora? They've got you covered. Spotify? Yep. Amazon? You're there too with a split already figured out. iTunes? Yes you're there. Mechanical rights? You've picked a performing rights organization.

The question is, how many people want your music? Next, how far buried is it? How visible? Things that sell tend to be kept on the most accessible shelves. 100 other people will make music similar to yours. What happens then? The smaller the category and the larger the demand, the more apt you are to remain seen.If your brand is easily searched online it can help. 

The opportunities are there for independents.

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Ray888    158
4 hours ago, starise said:

I don't see everything as negative with respect to where this is all headed. We have agreements that determine the split between you and the record company/distributor. We have a digital means these companies can use to track your music through metadata both on you tube and elsewhere and this determines how much you get paid. It's all based on sales, so if you have sales you will get paid and they have accurate ways to track hat. The public usually determines what they think quality is with their money and plays. This should be a kind of survival of the fittest or a natural way the selection process works.I realize that the general public is steered with advertising to some extent. I don't think that's the whole picture though. 

I think lot's of folks simply think to themselves, "  I might like to hear some ***** music." What do they do? Go on YouTube? The record company has you set up to monetize there.

Search Google? See the first one lol. Pandora? They've got you covered. Spotify? Yep. Amazon? You're there too with a split already figured out. iTunes? Yes you're there. Mechanical rights? You've picked a performing rights organization.

The question is, how many people want your music? Next, how far buried is it? How visible? Things that sell tend to be kept on the most accessible shelves. 100 other people will make music similar to yours. What happens then? The smaller the category and the larger the demand, the more apt you are to remain seen.If your brand is easily searched online it can help. 

The opportunities are there for independents.

 

 

I don't see myself as being negative, I see myself as being a realist.

When you place music on these sites you are a needle in a gigantic haystack. Unless you have marketing skills and money to spend you are dead in the water and that's a fact unfortunately.

 

Personally, I class myself as being mediocre at Promotion and marketing for the following reasons.

 

(1) I am a two finger typist and it takes forever to keep my website, Facebook pages, Linkedin site, Twitter blogs, and posts elsewhere forever.

 

(2) I would like to get myself on sites like snapchat and other available sites but don't have the time.

 

(3) Getting airplay takes up a lot of time but I am lucky enough to have a couple of artists that are well connected in that field otherwise it would be a lot more difficult to achieve.

 

Time and expertise are the bane of musicians and artists today and it takes others who believe in you to give you a little time and share your material with their connections. If you have a growing network that shares your music you are on your way but it takes more than good music to attract them. They have to like you as an artist as well.

Edited by Ray888
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MikeRobinson    146

Just give me a really good demo.

 

Many a killer idea sounded terrific on cassette tape.  (Or worse.)

Edited by MikeRobinson
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Ray888    158
10 hours ago, MikeRobinson said:

Just give me a really good demo.

 

Many a killer idea sounded terrific on cassette tape.  (Or worse.)

 

Hi Mike,

 

Pitching songs to artists, management, pluggers, and labels today requires far better quality than would have been accepted in the past. They now require high quality mixes because they listen to so many songs that they toss anything that isn't ear friendly straight into the waste basket.

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starise    366

Ray I didn't mean to infer that you were negative. I think I just felt the discussion was going back into a familiar rut with, " We can't do this". We're all doomed". kind of thinking.

 

On the other hand, it really is an uphill battle. Not impossible though. Yes, I'll likely get buried in the long and never ending stream of new music or it isn't the kind of thing a lot of people will like. That's ok with me if it goes that way at least I'll know where I am. My digital distribution hasn't kicked in yet so I won't know those figures for awhile.

 

As a sometimes music buyer myself I like to think that maybe others shop the way I shop. I don't respond to adds selling bands music if I didn't look for it.. I look for something I think I might like and play the demos. I don't only buy  music from touring bands that are heavily promoted. I go quite a few pages deep in website to find something I like. I tend to buy albums over singles. Maybe I'm a big exception and maybe most buyers go for the popular promoted bands. I can see this with the teen/college crowd. They heard a song on the radio and want to hear it again. Many of them have disposable income because mom and dad give them fun money or they have a part time job and no bills to pay. I seriously doubt any of them would be searching a genre like mine. I seriously search relaxing music sometimes. Or indie stuff. I don't care how popular the artist is if they have something I like,

 

I believe that maybe the reason people buy music might be changing.

 

For the starving artist there are probably some things we can do to improve our prospects.. Two of those are quantity and diversification. If you have a knack to make lots of different genres under different names or to make 4 or 5 albums over a short time either under one genre or diversified you improve your chances. Being featured on internet radio podcasts and shows helps. Having your tracks played by them on a regular basis can help sales. Social media all depends on who your followers are. Are they buyers? I personally don't put much faith in social media unless you are touring and post comments about upcoming gigs or tours. That isn't me. I have all my aunts and uncles on Facebook. None of them are loaded,  record execs.or really give a hoot about what I'm doing. I don't go for lots of followers because I don't feel the need to be on it much. I don't care much if my uncle had peanut butter toast this morning.I do like to follow those I like, but I don't camp out there.

 

At best the prospects are probably never going to be as good as they were on the 90's for successful artists, yet if you had tried to do what you can do online now it wouldn't have been possible for the average artist. Everyone took a cut. Many times the artist was the one who received the least in the deal. I think a savy person could do ok with music online as a side line. While the outlook can seem bleak, I don't think it's hopeless.

 

I think there's a difference between some of these companies. I don't put Tunecore and CD Baby in the same category as , say, Reverbnation. I believe Reverbnation is really all about fleecing the artist with tons of expenses. Essentially offering your wares to all online outlets is a form of marketing. Maybe not very effective, but not ineffective either. On Bandcamp I'm kinda Meh. Haven't ever tried them to be sure. CDBaby uses another inbetween company to collect YouTube royalties. That might not appeal to you. The bottom line is they can't post your music worldwide and give you 100% of the take.

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HoboSage    1,904
27 minutes ago, starise said:

I think a savy person could do ok with music online as a side line.

 

You have no reason to think that.  It's only wishful thinking. :) 

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Ray888    158
13 minutes ago, starise said:

Ray I didn't mean to infer that you were negative. I think I just felt the discussion was going back into a familiar rut with, " We can't do this". We're all doomed". kind of thinking.

 

On the other hand, it really is an uphill battle. Not impossible though. Yes, I'll likely get buried in the long and never ending stream of new music or it isn't the kind of thing a lot of people will like. That's ok with me if it goes that way at least I'll know where I am. My digital distribution hasn't kicked in yet so I won't know those figures for awhile.

 

As a sometimes music buyer myself I like to think that maybe others shop the way I shop. I don't respond to adds selling bands music if I didn't look for it.. I look for something I think I might like and play the demos. I don't only buy  music from touring bands that are heavily promoted. I go quite a few pages deep in website to find something I like. I tend to buy albums over singles. Maybe I'm a big exception and maybe most buyers go for the popular promoted bands. I can see this with the teen/college crowd. They heard a song on the radio and want to hear it again. Many of them have disposable income because mom and dad give them fun money or they have a part time job and no bills to pay. I seriously doubt any of them would be searching a genre like mine. I seriously search relaxing music sometimes. Or indie stuff. I don't care how popular the artist is if they have something I like,

 

I believe that maybe the reason people buy music might be changing.

 

For the starving artist there are probably some things we can do to improve our prospects.. Two of those are quantity and diversification. If you have a knack to make lots of different genres under different names or to make 4 or 5 albums over a short time either under one genre or diversified you improve your chances. Being featured on internet radio podcasts and shows helps. Having your tracks played by them on a regular basis can help sales. Social media all depends on who your followers are. Are they buyers? I personally don't put much faith in social media unless you are touring and post comments about upcoming gigs or tours. That isn't me. I have all my aunts and uncles on Facebook. None of them are loaded,  record execs.or really give a hoot about what I'm doing. I don't go for lots of followers because I don't feel the need to be on it much. I don't care much if my uncle had peanut butter toast this morning.I do like to follow those I like, but I don't camp out there.

 

At best the prospects are probably never going to be as good as they were on the 90's for successful artists, yet if you had tried to do what you can do online now it wouldn't have been possible for the average artist. Everyone took a cut. Many times the artist was the one who received the least in the deal. I think a savy person could do ok with music online as a side line. While the outlook can seem bleak, I don't think it's hopeless.

 

I think there's a difference between some of these companies. I don't put Tunecore and CD Baby in the same category as , say, Reverbnation. I believe Reverbnation is really all about fleecing the artist with tons of expenses. Essentially offering your wares to all online outlets is a form of marketing. Maybe not very effective, but not ineffective either. On Bandcamp I'm kinda Meh. Haven't ever tried them to be sure. CDBaby uses another inbetween company to collect YouTube royalties. That might not appeal to you. The bottom line is they can't post your music worldwide and give you 100% of the take.

 

I don't think it really matters what platform you sell your music on, without promotion and marketing the chances are that you won't be getting much revenue from it.

 

It takes a lot of time and effort to promote and market yourself so it helps a lot if you have an army of friends to help. As I mentioned earlier I am far from being good at it myself but artists who are savvy at creating interest tend to do much better than those of us that aren't.

 

Even if you are excellent at marketing yourself it still requires spending a lot money which many don't have. I have no wish to put a downer on the hopes and aspirations of members but it's always a good thing to be honest about the difficulties involved in selling music.

 

If you are gigging it helps a lot because you can hand out leaflets to your audiences with your website, Facebook, and Twitter links and future gig dates and venues you will be playing at. It's always easier to sell CDs at a gig than online. Once you attract some faithful followers you can slowly get to play in larger venues.

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starise    366

What do you consider a fair amount of revenue? ;) 

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Ray888    158
3 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

 

You have no reason to think that.  It's only wishful thinking. :) 

Quote

 

 

Actually, It's not wishful thinking of Starise to think that a Savvy person could do ok with promoting music online as a side line because there are hundreds if not thousands of people who are doing it on a daily basis.

 

I've seen lots of Facebook sites that promote your music for a fee and they tend to have a lot of followers.

 

If you had a facebook page with 100,000 likes and followers you could offer to promote artists and songs for a small fee if you weren't greedy. 

If you advertised your page to "friends and friends of friends" you would in all probability have a reach of 50 times your followers which adds up to 5,000,000. 

 

I don't know how many members there are on Songstuff, but supposing this website was to have sections where music could be sold with Songstuff receiving a percentage of revenue for administration. If all members were to blog the selling section on their Facebook, Twitter, and all the other available platforms, how long do you think it would take to build it's membership and take over from Reverbnation and CD Baby?

Unfortunately Songstuff would need a much larger server to be able to cope with demand and that costs money. However, if people put their hearts, minds, money and energy into it it could work. How many members would be willing to invest their money buying shares in songstuff as a company? I would.

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Richard Tracey    250

For me, I think you need to start off thinking small until  you see some traction. I would look at blogs that devote themselves to the kind of music I am doing and send them a free copy of an upcoming song or EP (for example) and hope that they will post about it. If their blog is decent, it may already have a decent following. If those followers listen to your song, they may like it enough to buy it or stream it. They may also re-post it to their friends and family, who in turn listen etc....

 

Without selling your soul to the devil and hoping they offer a contract, most people do not have the funds required to do what is necessary. When you look at how much it costs to have a decent producer work on one song, the mix and master, it becomes a frightening prospect and it is no wonder that most artists rely on a record company to foot that bill and then become indebted to them for a very long time.

 

I know I have spoken to John about this a lot recently and it is maybe something the SongStuff community could do to help each other out. Reposting and liking each others songs out there in the interwebs. There are around 16,000 members on SongStuff (not all active though), but even a small percentage of that could help to kick start a song. 

 

SoundCloud is fine for posting songs on here for critique, but terrible if you want to be found by others.

 

I know not everyone will agree with this sentiment, but given the community feeling on this site compared to others, it is probably a more friendly and helpful place, with people willing to help each other.

 

Just my 1/2p......

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Just1L    902
6 minutes ago, Ray888 said:

I don't know how many members there are on Songstuff, but supposing this website was to have sections where music could be sold with Songstuff receiving a percentage of revenue for administration. If all members were to blog the selling section on their Facebook, Twitter, and all the other available platforms, how long do you think it would take to build it's membership and take over from Reverbnation and CD Baby?

Unfortunately Songstuff would need a much larger server to be able to cope with demand and that costs money. However, if people put their hearts, minds, money and energy into it it could work. How many members would be willing to invest their money buying shares in songstuff as a company? I would.

 

I've had similar thoughts for Songstuff in the past years. Ranging from having it's own radio show, to being a label, to being a place to sell music as well. You've pointed out the roadblocks above with the space, time and money it would take. But I do think it still could work. At one point I even thought it would be cool if Songstuff could work it's way to striking deals with Pandora, Spotify, etc… With Songstuff providing some sort of "amateur roadway" to the large streaming services through various means (i.e. contests, well promoted CD/Song releases etc…) But that would take years and would need a very large following and a very large amount of artists posting their work. Not to mention, again, the time and money required. Unless of course there was an endless supply of money for Songstuff to use.

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HoboSage    1,904

I'm talking about our own music, Ray.  Not an online business promoting others.  Moreover, what's your point?  There are also millions of people working at Walmart every day.  Most of them aren't doing well either.

Edited by HoboSage

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Ray888    158
3 minutes ago, Just1L said:

 

I've had similar thoughts for Songstuff in the past years. Ranging from having it's own radio show, to being a label, to being a place to sell music as well. You've pointed out the roadblocks above with the space, time and money it would take. But I do think it still could work. At one point I even thought it would be cool if Songstuff could work it's way to striking deals with Pandora, Spotify, etc… With Songstuff providing some sort of "amateur roadway" to the large streaming services through various means (i.e. contests, well promoted CD/Song releases etc…) But that would take years and would need a very large following and a very large amount of artists posting their work. Not to mention, again, the time and money required. Unless of course there was an endless supply of money for Songstuff to use.

 

Yes, It only takes the will to do it and the backing of musicians and artists to make it happen.

 

When you look at ASCAP which is run by musicians for musicians you know that it could work. I just wonder how many members would be willing to put whatever money they could afford into shares in Songstuff. Currently we have the founders and admin who put all their time and efforts into keeping songstuff afloat and members who contribute on a voluntary basis. I'm pretty certain that there are many members who utilise this facility by receiving feedback who don't. If Songstuff were to have shareholders preferably members, it would attract more members if it was to have a release platform. By growing it slowly it would give it a lot more clout and other release platforms would be queueing up to do a deal. It would also attract major artists, TV, Film and gaming companies who are seeking songs, instrumentals, soundtracks etc so would benefit everyone here.

20 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

For me, I think you need to start off thinking small until  you see some traction. I would look at blogs that devote themselves to the kind of music I am doing and send them a free copy of an upcoming song or EP (for example) and hope that they will post about it. If their blog is decent, it may already have a decent following. If those followers listen to your song, they may like it enough to buy it or stream it. They may also re-post it to their friends and family, who in turn listen etc....

 

Without selling your soul to the devil and hoping they offer a contract, most people do not have the funds required to do what is necessary. When you look at how much it costs to have a decent producer work on one song, the mix and master, it becomes a frightening prospect and it is no wonder that most artists rely on a record company to foot that bill and then become indebted to them for a very long time.

 

I know I have spoken to John about this a lot recently and it is maybe something the SongStuff community could do to help each other out. Reposting and liking each others songs out there in the interwebs. There are around 16,000 members on SongStuff (not all active though), but even a small percentage of that could help to kick start a song. 

 

SoundCloud is fine for posting songs on here for critique, but terrible if you want to be found by others.

 

I know not everyone will agree with this sentiment, but given the community feeling on this site compared to others, it is probably a more friendly and helpful place, with people willing to help each other.

 

Just my 1/2p......

 

I believe that songstuff already has a facebook page so if everyone blogged it and admin chose good quality songs to post on it there would be greater response and it would attract purchasers.

 

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tunesmithth    1,217

I have a simple suggestion. ;)

Discussions like this are all too common on music forums like Songstuff.

While there's certainly no harm in rehashing the same ol' questions, these discussion rarely if ever yield any any tangable result.

On one side, we have folks who believe that financial opportunities exist for independent artists in the digital word. On the other side, we have folks who don't.

 

So...here's my suggestion.

Those who believe that opportunity exists should put their money where their mouth is...do it!

Put your stuff out there, do your level best to independently promote it AND THEN return to this thread and share the results of your efforts.

Real world results are incredibly hard to argue with...unless of course, you're Donald Trump :rolleyes:

Did you actually make money?

Add up every dime that you spent to make it happen (digital tracking codes, promotional expenses, artwork, taxes, fees paid to royalty collection entities, CD production costs, mastering costs, mixing costs, new equipment purchases) ...subtract that amount from the grand total of what you took-in, then tell us if you made money, or lost money.

 

Several of you have already taken steps toward releasing your material for sale.

I imagine other members would benefit greatly from the sharing of your results.

 

Tom

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tunesmithth    1,217
Quote

 

Yes, It only takes the will to do it and the backing of musicians and artists to make it happen.

 

When you look at ASCAP which is run by musicians for musicians you know that it could work. I just wonder how many members would be willing to put whatever money they could afford into shares in Songstuff. Currently we have the founders and admin who put all their time and efforts into keeping songstuff afloat and members who contribute on a voluntary basis. I'm pretty certain that there are many members who utilise this facility by receiving feedback who don't. If Songstuff were to have shareholders preferably members, it would attract more members if it was to have a release platform. By growing it slowly it would give it a lot more clout and other release platforms would be queueing up to do a deal. It would also attract major artists, TV, Film and gaming companies who are seeking songs, instrumentals, soundtracks etc so would benefit everyone here.

 

 

Yep, something like that could probably be done. Things is, you'd have to do it without me;)

My reasons for being here, for volunteering my time & effort, have nothing to do with "the business of music".

As with any decision, one has to consider the unintended consequences...just sayin'.

 

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Just1L    902
20 minutes ago, Ray888 said:

When you look at ASCAP which is run by musicians for musicians you know that it could work. I just wonder how many members would be willing to put whatever money they could afford into shares in Songstuff. 

 

That's the crux. Using me as an example I don't have the money already to do what I want with my own stuff. Although I will be getting some songs mastered in the next couple of months. But the decision would have to be made concerning time and money. Do I invest what little money I have to start a business? Or use it to do something with my own songs? Time and money. Hard to come by when music isn't the number 1 priority. And to truly do it right I feel I would have to commit to one or the other … Business building or making music. Doing both would be unrealistic with my current situation. I would have to go with the business side to help protect, promote and push my investment. Making music would fall by the wayside, but making music is the only reason I'm here. Well, that and these little conversations about music.

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symphonious7    117
39 minutes ago, tunesmithth said:

I have a simple suggestion. ;)

Discussions like this are all too common on music forums like Songstuff.

While there's certainly no harm in rehashing the same ol' questions, these discussion rarely if ever yield any any tangable result.

On one side, we have folks who believe that financial opportunities exist for independent artists in the digital word. On the other side, we have folks who don't.

 

So...here's my suggestion.

Those who believe that opportunity exists should put their money where their mouth is...do it!

Put your stuff out there, do your level best to independently promote it AND THEN return to this thread and share the results of your efforts.

Real world results are incredibly hard to argue with...unless of course, you're Donald Trump :rolleyes:

Did you actually make money?

Add up every dime that you spent to make it happen (digital tracking codes, promotional expenses, taxes, fees paid to royalty collection entities, CD production costs, mastering costs, mixing costs, new equipment purchases) ...subtract that amount from the grand total of what you took-in, then tell us if you made money, or lost money.

 

Several of you have already taken steps toward releasing your material for sale.

I imagine other members would benefit greatly from the sharing of your results.

 

Tom

Well said Tom, and the resources to do it are everywhere.  

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TapperMike    370

I just have to chime in with Radio Stations.

 

When I was at SZ we had a project in permanent beta testing called SWiSH Radio.  It could run as an embedded flash page or as a widget for mac computers or a gadget on windows machines or run on a browser (without flash)   Our beta testers loved it.  The powers that be never figured out how to market the concept to make money.   The Beta testers loved it even if they didn't have many listeners.  We had to mask stations identities to protect ourselves from someone using our server for broadcasting unlicensed material.  It was much like shoutcast  https://www.shoutcast.com/  Though easier for users to program.

 

Shoutcast is the only radio streaming service I use for personal listening.

https://www.shoutcast.com/

 

Though winamp makes for one lousy shoutcast player on my android.  I prefer Simple Shoutcast

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.kunihiro.ando.shoutcast

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TapperMike    370

Though Radionomy is taking many of my favorite commercial radio stations away from me.

https://www.radionomy.com

 

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tunesmithth    1,217
Quote

 

I have a simple suggestion. ;)

Discussions like this are all too common on music forums like Songstuff.

While there's certainly no harm in rehashing the same ol' questions, these discussion rarely if ever yield any any tangable result.

On one side, we have folks who believe that financial opportunities exist for independent artists in the digital word. On the other side, we have folks who don't.

 

So...here's my suggestion.

Those who believe that opportunity exists should put their money where their mouth is...do it!

Put your stuff out there, do your level best to independently promote it AND THEN return to this thread and share the results of your efforts.

Real world results are incredibly hard to argue with...unless of course, you're Donald Trump :rolleyes:

Did you actually make money?

Add up every dime that you spent to make it happen (digital tracking codes, promotional expenses, artwork, taxes, fees paid to royalty collection entities, CD production costs, mastering costs, mixing costs, new equipment purchases) ...subtract that amount from the grand total of what you took-in, then tell us if you made money, or lost money.

 

Several of you have already taken steps toward releasing your material for sale.

I imagine other members would benefit greatly from the sharing of your results.

 

 

If I may, I'd like to add one more thought to my earlier suggestion.

Making money is not the only viable reason for commercial release of your material. I never intended to imply that it was.

BUT, if profit is your primary motive, wouldn't it be nice to see tangible results from someone who's already gone that route?

If no one you know has ever made money, it's tough to make a case for the financial viability of that approach. Right?

 

Tom

 

 

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Ray888    158
9 minutes ago, tunesmithth said:

If I may, I'd like to add one more thought to my earlier suggestion.

Making money is not the only viable reason for commercial release of your material. I never intended to imply that it was.

BUT, if profit is your primary motive, wouldn't it be nice to see tangible results from someone who's already gone that route?

If no one you know has ever made money, it's tough to make a case for the financial viability of that approach. Right?

 

Tom

 

 

 

You have totally misunderstood what I was getting at. I have no idea where you picked up the idea that making money was the object?

 

If musicians on songstuff have a hard time gaining a fanbase I was suggesting a way that it could be done with Songstuff.

 

ASCAP is run by musicians and for musicians and it is not their goal to make money. ASCAP is of benefit to musicians and that was my real point. Songstuff could work on similar lines but without funding ASCAP would never be what it is today.

Edited by Ray888

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tunesmithth    1,217

See, that's the tricky thing about these forums Ray. The topic never remains on-point very long. This particular thread has already changed direction half-dozen times.

Those earlier suggestions from addressed this portion of the discussion.
 

Quote

 

I don't think it really matters what platform you sell your music on, without promotion and marketing the chances are that you won't be getting much revenue from it.

 

It takes a lot of time and effort to promote and market yourself so it helps a lot if you have an army of friends to help. As I mentioned earlier I am far from being good at it myself but artists who are savvy at creating interest tend to do much better than those of us that aren't.

 

Even if you are excellent at marketing yourself it still requires spending a lot money which many don't have. I have no wish to put a downer on the hopes and aspirations of members but it's always a good thing to be honest about the difficulties involved in selling music.

 

 

When I began writing my response, that was still the topic. Tim was attempting to make a case for the possibility of indie success. By the time my response was finished and I posted it, the thread had turned to viable business models for SongStuff. A few comments ago, it took another turn...Mike added indie radio to the mix...and now it's swung back again.

My suggestion addressed the question of whether it's feasible for an individual artist, with no significant industry affiliations or contacts, to achieve some degree of financial success through utilization of the indie tools currently available to them. 

 

Chances are, by the time I make this comment live, we will talking about something else :rolleyes: What can I tell ya' buddy? It's the nature of the beast, ya know.

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tunesmithth    1,217

To avoid further confusion, I've added a clarifier to the statement that confused you Ray...the one about "adding one more thought to my earlier suggestion".

I placed a quote containing the "earlier suggestion" at the top of that comment box.

It should be easier for folks to tell now which suggestion I was referencing.

 

Tom

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symphonious7    117

Don't feel bad guys, I have like no idea what's going on in any thread ever, I just think you guys seem pretty cool so I keep typing in them.  

 

 

lulz

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Ray888    158
2 hours ago, tunesmithth said:

See, that's the tricky thing about these forums Ray. The topic never remains on-point very long. This particular thread has already changed direction half-dozen times.

Those earlier suggestions from addressed this portion of the discussion.
 

 

When I began writing my response, that was still the topic. Tim was attempting to make a case for the possibility of indie success. By the time my response was finished and I posted it, the thread had turned to viable business models for SongStuff. A few comments ago, it took another turn...Mike added indie radio to the mix...and now it's swung back again.

My suggestion addressed the question of whether it's feasible for an individual artist, with no significant industry affiliations or contacts, to achieve some degree of financial success through utilization of the indie tools currently available to them. 

 

Chances are, by the time I make this comment live, we will talking about something else :rolleyes: What can I tell ya' buddy? It's the nature of the beast, ya know.

 

Understood lol. It is possible for an indie artist to make money without having industry contacts but it happens to very few. Basically it's all down to people loving your songs and sharing them to go viral. That's why artists who are good at promoting and marketing their music have a head start on those that are either not very good at it or can't spare the time because they are either too busy working a dayjob to fund their recordings or their own equipment to do so or aren't proficient enough to record and mix/master to a standard that people would listen to.

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Ray888    158
39 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

Don't feel bad guys, I have like no idea what's going on in any thread ever, I just think you guys seem pretty cool so I keep typing in them.  

 

 

lulz

 

Just us old hands going a little senile methinks :D

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symphonious7    117
Just now, Ray888 said:

 

Just us old hands going a little senile methinks :D

Now that I look at your avatar I think you've gone from senile to YODA lmao  ok I'll quit derailing sorry lol

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Ray888    158
5 hours ago, HoboSage said:

I'm talking about our own music, Ray.  Not an online business promoting others.  Moreover, what's your point?  There are also millions of people working at Walmart every day.  Most of them aren't doing well either.

 

So was I referring to members music and my description of a facebook page was intended to describe what other are doing and that Songstuff could help members promote their music if members were willing to back it up with their time and money. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in that particular post but It should have been clear if you had read my earlier posts and replies leading up to it.

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