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Rob Ash

What does it mean to succeed?

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Ray888    176
20 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

Now that I look at your avatar I think you've gone from senile to YODA lmao  ok I'll quit derailing sorry lol

 

I would have been a major artist if I didn't look like that lol. My audiences weren't to keen on hearing the Oink Oink song twelve times in a row :D

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Richard Tracey    273
12 minutes ago, Ray888 said:

 

So was I referring to members music and my description of a facebook page was intended to describe what other are doing and that Songstuff could help members promote their music if members were willing to back it up with their time and money. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in that particular post but It should have been clear if you had read my earlier posts and replies leading up to it.

 

John and I were talking about this a few weeks back and we had a conversation with a couple of the other admin last week and we are thinking about promoting the members music (with their agreement of course) and using the Facebook page to do this. The only criteria may be how finished or polished the song is, but we didn't manage to speak about the finer details. I am going to speak to John tomorrow if we get a minute, so will mention it again.

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Ray888    176
11 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

John and I were talking about this a few weeks back and we had a conversation with a couple of the other admin last week and we are thinking about promoting the members music (with their agreement of course) and using the Facebook page to do this. The only criteria may be how finished or polished the song is, but we didn't manage to speak about the finer details. I am going to speak to John tomorrow if we get a minute, so will mention it again.

 

Sounds good. If Songstuff promotes music on facebook It would be great but it would cost money for Songstuff to promote their page in order to target  and attract the general public to pay to download songs. That promotion and marketing fund would have to come from somewhere so I would suggest either it be taken from percentage of sales or a set charge to songstuff for each promotion depending on what feels the most comfortable.

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

On 7/12/2017 at 11:58 AM, Ray888 said:

It's important to understand that majors are only interested in one thing (Money).

 

I was going to chime in with exactly this point. The record labels, production companies and promoters care for nothing, except money. The purpose of chaining new talent to a label is for the purpose of having total control over that artist's work, whether it be the songs they record, or the performances they put on. Even today, young artists give up almost all control over what they create and when and where they perform.

 

Back in the 70's 80's and 90's, the usual; gambit was a "three record deal"... which sounded like an incredible opportunity to a group of young kids just hoping to get out of their small home towns. The truth of the matter is that more than half of all careers in music never go as far as three records. So, effectively, this gave control over a new artist's career to the record label. In house producers would always "look" at a n artist's ideas. If a young singer or group could make great songs, they'd be allowed to. To do otherwise would be foolish. But the control... thew decision making ability, always stayed with the label during that first contract.

 

When I was making my play, we knew all of this. While out playing our guts out week after week, we'd occasionally run into a scout, or a producer. They go to clubs to find bands, after all. Or used to anyway. And most were usually willing to be pretty forthright about how things worked. Why not be? They knew they had us all the short and curlys. Doing things on an independent basis was incredibly difficult then, even if you had lots of money, which most bands did not.

 

As far as today? It's all a mess, on many levels. I tend to think a whole bunch of angry, petulant, anal retentive old bastards have to die off before we will see any real change in the music biz. I also don't know what shape it will all take, but I do believe this: if the labels don't stop trying to maintain total control over new talent, the music industry will end up only ever appealing to a younger and younger crowd. Anyone over the age of about 27-30 years of age is already seeking their entertainment, to an ever growing extent, from other sources.

 

Plastic performers and canned personalities mostly hold little to no appeal to anyone who is even marginally grown up.

 

 

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starise    396
30 minutes ago, Rob Ash said:

tend to think a whole bunch of angry, petulant, anal retentive old bastards have to die off before we will see any real change in the music biz. I

 

Be careful with that. This is us you're talking about :D

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Ray888    176

Robs 100% correct about the control that record labels have over their artists.

 

 

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symphonious7    188
11 hours ago, Ray888 said:

 

I would have been a major artist if I didn't look like that lol. My audiences weren't to keen on hearing the Oink Oink song twelve times in a row :D

That mental image got way too vivid for me and I laughed way too hard at it lmaoooooo

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starise    396
18 hours ago, tunesmithth said:

I have a simple suggestion. ;)

Discussions like this are all too common on music forums like Songstuff.

While there's certainly no harm in rehashing the same ol' questions, these discussion rarely if ever yield any any tangable result.

On one side, we have folks who believe that financial opportunities exist for independent artists in the digital word. On the other side, we have folks who don't.

 

So...here's my suggestion.

Those who believe that opportunity exists should put their money where their mouth is...do it!

Put your stuff out there, do your level best to independently promote it AND THEN return to this thread and share the results of your efforts.

Real world results are incredibly hard to argue with...unless of course, you're Donald Trump :rolleyes:

Did you actually make money?

Add up every dime that you spent to make it happen (digital tracking codes, promotional expenses, artwork, taxes, fees paid to royalty collection entities, CD production costs, mastering costs, mixing costs, new equipment purchases) ...subtract that amount from the grand total of what you took-in, then tell us if you made money, or lost money.

 

Several of you have already taken steps toward releasing your material for sale.

I imagine other members would benefit greatly from the sharing of your results.

 

Tom

 

I like the premise of this idea a whole lot Tom. I think some of the reason I can see the potential for success is because I have a few friends who have done it and are doing it. Do they share what they do and exactly how they do it? No, not usually. Why? I can only venture a guess. One such guess might have to do with competition, signed agreements and job protection. Give away all the secrets and paying clients and eventually someone will take your job.

 

These guys all wear a lot of hats. They have taken diversification to the the next level. They follow through. These are doers, not thinkers. Most of them are also engineers who pull in cash that way. Their clients don't use them because of their personalities for the most part, though they are great people and well liked. They are well educated in solving a myriad of problems fast and effectively. They do good work. You could throw almost anything at them and they will soon have a solution for it.

 

In looking at them from the outside I can see that this translates into multiple cash streams. They do a lot of stuff in a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day they get to do a lot of what they like to do.

 

There are plenty of people who can't play a lick of music who have capitalized on a situation and made money. They might sign artists to agreements and make a compilation album. They might make very little on that but they have dozens of other irons in the fire. Look at all the Christmas albums coming out of the woodwork around the holidays.

 

Many musicians are "out there" compared to the business types and this makes us look like easy pickin's. Those who excel have the traits of both and they are magicians at diversification and networking..

 

At the end of the day the whole reason anyone buys anything seldom has anything to do with US. It isn't about US. It's about THEM. Serve THEM well and you might get something for doing that. 

 

If a person's idea of success is to make music for a living , you'll need a lot of energy, passion, stubbornness, a lot of out of the box ideas. You will need to learn when  it's not a good idea to relay information .You'll need  plenty of ideas that make it to completion. You will fail plenty, but you won't ever quit.....ever.

 

 

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

On 7/14/2017 at 8:02 AM, starise said:
On 7/13/2017 at 1:05 PM, tunesmithth said:

I have a simple suggestion. ;)

Discussions like this are all too common on music forums like Songstuff.

While there's certainly no harm in rehashing the same ol' questions, these discussion rarely if ever yield any any tangable result.

On one side, we have folks who believe that financial opportunities exist for independent artists in the digital word. On the other side, we have folks who don't.

 

So...here's my suggestion.

Those who believe that opportunity exists should put their money where their mouth is...do it!

Put your stuff out there, do your level best to independently promote it AND THEN return to this thread and share the results of your efforts.

Real world results are incredibly hard to argue with...unless of course, you're Donald Trump :rolleyes:

Did you actually make money?

Add up every dime that you spent to make it happen (digital tracking codes, promotional expenses, artwork, taxes, fees paid to royalty collection entities, CD production costs, mastering costs, mixing costs, new equipment purchases) ...subtract that amount from the grand total of what you took-in, then tell us if you made money, or lost money.

 

Several of you have already taken steps toward releasing your material for sale.

I imagine other members would benefit greatly from the sharing of your results.

 

Tom

 

 

 

Tom, Tom. Dear, friend Tom. Of all the curmudgeons who seem to inhabit this site, you are without doubt my favorite. I mean that from the heart, my talented friend. The above is hogswallow, and perhaps more accurately describes your own frustration with the state of the industry than it does accurately reflect or address the subject of this thread.

 

First off, it may be rehash to you, but I craft my posts. I know what I write... what I wrote. What you reference with the above suggestion isn't it.


I submit that if you go back and re-read the OP, you will find that it is not at all about whether or not the opportunities that used to exist for performers are gone, or if it is worth it to go independent. It's about having people describe, and then perhaps discuss how they perceive the road they might take to achieve real success in the music business.  I wrote of my own experiences, and hopes for success, only because an initial point of reference seemed to me to be an integral part of the OP, Something needed to help frame the coming discussion. I almost always include my own point of view in each post I write, But that, in and of itself, does not usually constitute the gist of my posts.

 

Tom, don't you think that such a discussion... MANY such discussions.... is required? Young people coming up still discover they have skills and talents. Young people still have dreams. No matter the state of the industry, young artists and performers are still going to have to decide, each one individually, how to pursue that goal, once a decision is made to try and have a career in music or music entertainment.

 

Or, would you simply, arbitrarily deny all and sundry the chance to make such a decision, or go on such a journey, whatever new form it may take...?

 

How it used to happen, meaning, for example, young bands playing night and day, slogging out a low level, often seemingly endless series of gigs, writing tons of original songs and hoping a handful have real appeal, and then, in most cases, having no better plan that a hope and desire to be "discovered" by some agent of the labels, no longer holds true.

 

Yet, even today, young artists (or at least young, pretty, out going  personalities... talent can be and is, taught) are being signed, and groomed, to be stares, by the labels. You need only tune to any pop, R&B, Hip-Hop or similar format radio station, or click through to any number of pop related entertainment to see that this is so.

 

Over the last two decades, however, it has become less and less clear how one might go about pursuing a career as a creative musician, once one makes the decision to do so. I wrote the OP hoping to discover how various people here see "the road to personal success" laying itself out before them. If you read the entire thread, you will see that, although there has been some drift in various skewed directions... what I asked for, I got.

 

Since the opportunity to go out and pursue a career as you suggest is no longer an option for me, I for one will not be doing as you suggested brother Tom. It is my fervent hope you do not take that, or this response, to heart.

 

To amend my OP, however,, I will tell you one thing I sometimes think about:

 

It may seem cynical or even slightly paranoid to some, but I often feel that the very best opportunities for stardom or great success as an artist are either reserved by wealthy parents for their kids, or handed down, like gentrified estate holdings, from generation to generation. How many stars today, in all forms of entertainment, are the children of former stars? How many boy bands, or divas, or any hot, young new act, are such because of, and owing to the ability of their parents to pay for intensive, grossly expensive, in depth training once some measure if raw talent is observed in their offspring?

 

Sometimes it feels as if the most wealthy among us are gobbling up so much of the very best of what America (still) has to offer, they might end up drawing unwanted, and most undesirable attention down upon themselves.

 

It certainly would not be the first time such a revolutionary redistribution of resources occurred in our society.

 

Anyone remember a little soiree known commonly as the American Revolutionary War? or, hell... even The Civil War?

 

Now there's food for thought, if you ask me.

 

 

 

Edited by Rob Ash

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HoboSage    1,990

If I'm the the right "state of mind," I can find some comfort in thinking that, in some other reality in the multiverse, there's a "me" who's making killer music and is wildly successful at it.  But alas, such comforting thoughts are fleeting - lasting only until it occurs to me that I wouldn't like his mixes either.

 

 

 

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

4 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

If I'm the the right "state of mind," I can find some comfort in thinking that, in some other reality in the multiverse, there's a "me" who's making killer music and is wildly successful at it.  But alas, such thoughts are fleeting - lasting only until it occurs to me that I wouldn't like his mixes either.

 

 

Amen, Dave.

 

And remember: puff, puff, pass.

 

 

Edited by Rob Ash

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

2 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

LOL  Thanks for quoting me before I fixed my typo, Rob. :)

 

 

All taken care of, kimosabe. I won't leave ya hangin'...

 

 

 

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HoboSage    1,990

I'm losing it.  I had fixed it.  Never mind.

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

5 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

I'm losing it.  I had fixed it.  Never mind.

 

 

Your noggin is fine, Dave. I fixed the typo seconds after reading your post.

 

Yes, Elizabeth, that WAS a UFO...

 

 

 

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

On 7/13/2017 at 8:55 PM, starise said:

 

Be careful with that. This is us you're talking about :D

 

 

Well... yeah.... sort of.

 

I mean; - yes... we are of that older mind set, but we (here meant to include, let us say, all members of SongStuff) do not control anything, or at least do not control much. I consider myself to be an observer and commentator now, Tim. Often, my reflections, here or otherwise, are born of those observations. But there is little I can personally do to alter either the current disposition or the course of the industry.

 

What I can do is lead discussions, or begin them at any rate. Such is a service often provided by a previous generation, and one for which I consider myself to be, at least  marginally, suited.

 

 

 

Edited by Rob Ash
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starise    396

This is true Rob. And me being of the older mindset, I think this would be a great time for a nappy nap. ****YAWN******. It has nothing to do with your well written foray into this subject. Creative minds need rest. I didn't want to step into today today. I wanted to put that off until tomorrow or next week, but alas, here it is and I'm in the mess again. I can't lay down because I'm in a chair and it probably wouldn't bode well to those who pay me. I'll fight to remain vertical until I get home.

 

This day started out bad and hasn't changed yet. I just want to get it over with. If this is success you can have it.

 

I'll take peace, quiet and sanity over success any day. 

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Ray888    176
2 hours ago, starise said:

This is true Rob. And me being of the older mindset, I think this would be a great time for a nappy nap. ****YAWN******. It has nothing to do with your well written foray into this subject. Creative minds need rest. I didn't want to step into today today. I wanted to put that off until tomorrow or next week, but alas, here it is and I'm in the mess again. I can't lay down because I'm in a chair and it probably wouldn't bode well to those who pay me. I'll fight to remain vertical until I get home.

 

This day started out bad and hasn't changed yet. I just want to get it over with. If this is success you can have it.

 

I'll take peace, quiet and sanity over success any day. 

 

Peace, quiet and sanity equates to success in my book :001_smile:

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starise    396

I hope you have that Ray.

 

Right after I typed this my day got really busy so I was able to stay awake lol. 

 

 

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Ray888    176
6 hours ago, starise said:

I hope you have that Ray.

 

Right after I typed this my day got really busy so I was able to stay awake lol. 

 

 

 

Peace, quiet, sanity, contentment, happiness are fleeting because if we had it all the time we would not appreciate those times when we have it. You definitely get more of it with age although along with old age comes health issues which can impede on how one feels. I think that if we look for it there are always positives so it's important to not focus on the hardships too much because it can kill ones spirit. 

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starise    396

I've already had some of those health issues Ray. I must be old. Not getting old, just old :) Some of the issues are still lurking around to potentially come back later. The grim reaper has a lot of help. It doesn't help that I commonly hear of men 10 years younger than me who didn't make it with a similar thing. I count myself lucky or  successful in that regard. It goes day by day. The reaper is always in the shadows waiting reminding that he's there for when the time comes.

 

 A friend recently went to get a routine checkup. Prostate cancer spread to the back bones and other places. They can't cure it, only maybe delay it. It has advanced too far to really control. He made a statement that seems simple, but it caused me to think. He said, " I'll live until I die".  

 

There are certainly positives. Having today is a positive. Being able to talk with a great person like you an ocean away is a positive. I'll live until I die. I have my faith too, so I don't feel bad about death since it's only the beginning. 

 

I agree about focusing on hardships. Focusing on a problem never solves it if all we do is focus and worry or become despondent.  I'll live until I die and i intend to live well, productive and happy as a man can be. 

 

 

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@starise  "Reaper in the Shadows". Fodder for a song.

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

On 7/19/2017 at 10:47 AM, Pahchisme Plaid said:

"Reaper in the Shadows". Fodder for a song

 

No doubt!

 

 

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Ray888    176
On 19/07/2017 at 2:40 PM, starise said:

I've already had some of those health issues Ray. I must be old. Not getting old, just old :) Some of the issues are still lurking around to potentially come back later. The grim reaper has a lot of help. It doesn't help that I commonly hear of men 10 years younger than me who didn't make it with a similar thing. I count myself lucky or  successful in that regard. It goes day by day. The reaper is always in the shadows waiting reminding that he's there for when the time comes.

 

 A friend recently went to get a routine checkup. Prostate cancer spread to the back bones and other places. They can't cure it, only maybe delay it. It has advanced too far to really control. He made a statement that seems simple, but it caused me to think. He said, " I'll live until I die".  

 

There are certainly positives. Having today is a positive. Being able to talk with a great person like you an ocean away is a positive. I'll live until I die. I have my faith too, so I don't feel bad about death since it's only the beginning. 

 

I agree about focusing on hardships. Focusing on a problem never solves it if all we do is focus and worry or become despondent.  I'll live until I die and i intend to live well, productive and happy as a man can be. 

 

 

 

True Tim,

 

All any of us has is today. My wife is a survivor of breast cancer and there's always the possibility of it's ugly head reappearing again, but we take each day as a blessing and treasure the time that we have been allocated on this earth.

 

I am not a man of faith in the traditional sense but I firmly believe that death is not the end. I base my faith on the many true stories of parents who have children that from a very early age have strongly expressed that they are not the person who's body they are living in. Furthermore some of their stories have been followed up and places and people who they have named and described have proven to be true. I also think that quantum mechanics in theory has only just began to touch on the possibility of the existence of multi universes, some of them existing in the same space as our own. When I look at this world of ours and how unique and wonderful it is, it is difficult for me to believe that it along with all the diversity of life that it has spawned was just a combination of events. Life is an amazing thing but it would be even more amazing if it emanated from inert matter.

Edited by Ray888

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Dazzyt66    27

I'm replying to this thread with some trepidation. The depth of knowledge and experience here has me in awe. I've only been a member of the site for a few days but already it is 'filling a void' in me that until recently I didn't know I had. So, back to the OP. 

 

I was 50 last September and was lucky enough in February to be made redundant from a relatively successful career in healthcare IT which, due to a very supportive wife allowed me to retire fully from that type of work. That is a degree in success itself.

 

When I was younger I grew up listening to Presley, Cash, Sinatra, Dylan, Martin et al. I always loved music but my parents saw it as a waste of time (although they spent sh*tloads buying my sister any instrument she was into at the time). I had an harmonica and an imagination and a cardboard (I kid you not) guitar which I mimed with. I didn't get my first guitar until I was 40. I was always writing songs however. I've never really stopped. Lyrics can come to me at any point in time and nowadays I try to get em all down. They reflect all my ups and downs in life and some (I think) are pretty good.

 

I still can't read music and I can carry a tune on the guitar, play a melody on a keyboard - but my kids are amazed that I can play the harmonica (they both play guitar and have played and sang to audiences albeit in small venues - I was very proud when my eldest daughter played in the Temple Bar in Dublin when she was just 16 after borrowing a guitar from the act on at the time).

 

In a nutshell, my dreams back when we're big but unachievable, I was never gonna be good enough to make a career of music. I still get my 'gig' kicks from Karaoke. That's it. However, now I have the time to explore what I can do with music with my limitations in place. I am no longer dreaming of playing to audiences BUT I do love it if someone listens to my stuff (and am over the moon if they like it!). I think my most played track on SoundCloud is a cover of Kellie Picklers 'Didn't You Know How Much I Loved You' - it's had 448 plays in 3 years... lol

 

Yesterday, on the collaboration forum, someone took my lyrics and sang them to their own arrangement. I was blown away and humbled at the same time that something I wrote could sound so good. That was success for me. It made my day. I hope this site gives me the opportunity to do more cos for me, that is the kick I get. I don't need to perform em, but to know others might enjoy em gives me a big smile.

 

And I agree with everyone on here, the music industry has changed massively over the last 20 years, which is why I look to live music venues nowadays instead of following the charts, even my passion for country music is at risk from the commercial formula...

 

You are all brilliant in my eyes. Keep going!!

 

Yeah, I think I've rambled off OP too... lol

Edited by Dazzyt66
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symphonious7    188

@Dazzyt66 I totally understand your kids.  I can wail on guitar, jam with anybody on drums, and know my way around the keyboard ok, but THE HARMONICA????  It's like a tiny metallic safe.  I know there's music in there but I can't figure out the combination!!  lol  Seriously, I don't understand how anyone makes a good sound come out of a harmonica, it's magic to me as well lol

 

And yeah I mean, I think this thread was looking from the standpoint of like... back in the day you knew you made it when you signed with a major label and got a platinum record or whatever, but now how do you define it.  But honestly, was a definition of success like that ever valid?  I've never.... I dunno people equate playing music WITH making alot of money now, as if the two goals are one in the same.  You wanna be a musician?  You must be trying to get fame and riches right?!  It's almost assumed I think sometimes.  I've never liked that.... for me success is just... a growing audience.  If everyday a few new people get turned onto my music, everyday is gonna be a cool day.  If I reach the point where someone has something cool to say about one of my songs every day, or I get a few album sales every month, I dunno... I just want a consistent growing audience.  Even if that's just 3 new people a day haha

 

So I think your measure of success is totally valid.  For me it's the size of the impact, not the amount of people though.  Like... I'd rather have 1 person say "Your song is the most amazing thing I've ever heard and it changed my life!!!" Than 100 people say "cool song bro".  Anywho, thanks for sharing your thoughts, welcome to the forum!

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Dazzyt66    27
5 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

@Dazzyt66 I totally understand your kids.  I can wail on guitar, jam with anybody on drums, and know my way around the keyboard ok, but THE HARMONICA????  It's like a tiny metallic safe.  I know there's music in there but I can't figure out the combination!!  lol  Seriously, I don't understand how anyone makes a good sound come out of a harmonica, it's magic to me as well lol

Ha ha ha my daughter had almost the exact sentiments - she was playing something by Taylor Swift a few years ago on the guitar and I just chimed in with the harmonica. She stopped playing after a couple of seconds, looked at me and said 'how the hell do you do that!?' - I still don't know how I know how to do it - I remember it took me hours and hours to learn 'Amazing Grace' when I was about 12, after that everything seemed to click into place - I just wish I could proper wail some blues with it...!

 

Hmmm.... maybe that's my next challenge now I have some time on my hands... lol

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Rob Ash    495

 

 

5 hours ago, Dazzyt66 said:

Yeah, I think I've rambled off OP too... lol

 

Welcome, Dabby.

 

You can chime in on my threads anytime.

 

 

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Dazzyt66    27
2 hours ago, Rob Ash said:

 

 

 

Welcome, Dabby.

 

You can chime in on my threads anytime.

 

 

Coolio. Thanks! I'll overlook 'Dabby' lol 😉

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MikeRobinson    163

To my way of thinking, what's really happening is that people today have access to a fairly-unlimited supply of genuinely "new and different" music, without resorting to the modern-day leftovers of the old "broadcasting" model.  Although it is just as difficult as ever it was to get your song played on "the radio" (satellite or otherwise), how many of us actually listen to music that way anymore?  There are literally thousands of "internet radio stations" out there who are (legally!) streaming music from "all over the planet," to "all over the planet."  iTunes and Amazon are far from being "the only places where you can buy music."

 

Although the music industry wisely continues to pursue the "mega-star [brand]" model, because there certainly is still money to be made there, the industry is not unaware of the change.  PROs such as ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC are aggressively reaching out to anyone who is selling music.  Many artists, knowing that it costs essentially nothing to produce a potentially-marketable product and to keep it on the market indefinitely, are doing precisely that.  The more bobbing-floaters you have in the water with your name on it, the more likely it is that, one way or the other, you will eat fish tonight.

 

The economics of the present-day music distribution business model are that the "cost of goods sold" is essentially zero.  So, if you sell 1,000 copies of your song for $1.00 each ... (a) you might well have sold those copies all over the planet, and (b) nearly all of the $1,000 gross profit will turn out to be net profit for you, because overhead is non-existent.  You can afford to experiment, and your audience can afford to pick and choose.  Both producer and consumer today have options that they never could have considered before – with a globally-unlimited "reach," and with essentially no overhead or any other direct costs.

Edited by MikeRobinson
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TapperMike    378

I somewhat disagree with this assertion.

 

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The economics of the present-day music distribution business model are that the "cost of goods sold" is essentially zero.  So, if you sell 1,000 copies of your song for $1.00 each ... (a) you might well have sold those copies all over the planet, and (b) nearly all of the $1,000 gross profit will turn out to be net profit for you, because overhead is non-existent.  You can afford to experiment, and your audience can afford to pick and choose.  Both producer and consumer today have options that they never could have considered before – with a globally-unlimited "reach," and with essentially no overhead or any other direct costs.

 

Producers still require equipment and software.  No label nor self respecting producer would work on a project for free. Nor would they allow freeware to be used in production.  Time is money.  It takes time to produce a single.  If you want it to be a hit then you'll want to go the extra mile and invest in the costs required.  Mic's aren't free, soundcards aren't free.  Labor isn't free  Marketing isn't free.  Even distribution isn't free.

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