TCgypsy

Why the hell did you shatter the critique section into genres?

59 posts in this topic

Seperating the critique section into genre subforums is not a good move! Most of us want to hear every kind of song produced and don't want to have to enter every subforum to do so.

 

This is going to splinter the community, and make it a pain in the ass to keep track of all the songs we critique with all these sub-forums.

 

PUT IT BACK THE WAY IT WAS! PLEASE.

 

Some support here would be good if others would comment, too.

 

Peace,

TC

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We have received loads of requests over a period of time to combine the lyrics crit and song and recording crit boards. This I think there are some great arguments to do. For example promoting better interaction between lyricists and musicians. 

 

We already had a member only board, a parental advisory board, an instrumental critique board and a hip hop and rap board, mirrored (with the exception of the instrumental board) between lyrics and song and recording. There was also a suggestion by several members of a distinct section for religious songs (all faiths)

 

At the same time, we had members mentioning how quickly songs already dropped off the front page, and that only gets worse with a monolithic board. We are anticipating an increase in community activity in the near future, which would also make the issue worse.

 

So we thought we would try some basic genres. The non genre specific board is prominent and I expect it to be busy.

 

Change is not always easy, but if the site does get as busy as expected, things couldn't really stay as they were. For other reasons, the site not getting busier bring another set of issues that also meant things had to change.

 

We didn't make changes just to piss members off (much as it might seem it). Please give it a chance.

 

If people really hate it we can look at it again, though I am really not sure how we can satisfy all the issues at the same time.

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I'm not good with genres but I'll give this a go. I would have liked to see a '1+1' section in here, though. David(Hobosage) suggested it a while back.

 

I do agree with TC that this change will spread members out quite thin. Personally, I like the fast paced critiques and if things slow down considerably here, I'm afraid I will have to join several other active songwriter forums to make up for it. Time is everything.

 

3 hours ago, john said:

We are anticipating an increase in community activity in the near future

 

That would be awesome, fingers crossed! Is another forum gonna close down or something?

 

Ken

Edited by ImKeN

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I agree with the main post, was away for a while and found it a bit of a mess when I came back, difficult to navigate the place, not sure I'll be back again...

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Why do music genres have to be split into separate categories anyway?

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3 hours ago, shadowfax said:

I agree with the main post, was away for a while and found it a bit of a mess when I came back, difficult to navigate the place, not sure I'll be back again...

 

How can we, or any forum, improve things if our members don't allow us to try things out? Sometimes that can mean making mistakes. If you as members try things and don't like them, fair enough, they can always be changed.

 

It sounds like you weren't entirely happy with the way things were... so what would you like to see? I am perfectly happy if your idea is better than what we have, at any point. After all, the way the boards work for all of you is the important thing.

 

Nothing is set in stone. If you don't like something then by all means make suggestions. We can't guarantee to implement everything everyone wants but we have always tried to accommodate opinions balanced with need.

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3 hours ago, ImKeN said:

I'm not good with genres but I'll give this a go. I would have liked to see a '1+1' section in here, though. David(Hobosage) suggested it a while back.

 

I do agree with TC that this change will spread members out quite thin. Personally, I like the fast paced critiques and if things slow down considerably here, I'm afraid I will have to join several other active songwriter forums to make up for it. Time is everything.

 

 

That would be awesome, fingers crossed! Is another forum gonna close down or something?

 

Ken

 

 

Thanks Ken. As mentioned elsewhere if it is a big problem we can always change, although I would suggest if not what is currently implemented, that a single critique board is offered, with the exception of the rap/hip hop board as members making rap have expressed a desire for a dedicated board, and for a single restricted access board. We'll see.

 

The increase in visitors is already beginning with a 15% increase last month alone. THere are several reasons for this, starting with server upgrades making the site run faster, which is boosting Songstuff's search result position across the board, plans for targeted promotion campaigns, offering new features, having funds for promotion etc.

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Might be wrong...but my gut feeling is to agree with TC... it's all music, most of us like all sorts of genres and mix them up a bit. Feels weird to separate... and would feel good to mix things up.

What I just put forward for the rap battle isn't strictly a hip hop track...mixing it up... 

But, whatever...doesn't matter much to me :)  Just sayin...

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1+1 is a good idea too, although the suggestion for a single board would allow us to separate content using tags alone... which works. Other than it being a faster turn over off topics.

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1 minute ago, MonoStone said:

Might be wrong...but my gut feeling is to agree with TC... it's all music, most of us like all sorts of genres and mix them up a bit. Feels weird to separate... and would feel good to mix things up.

What I just put forward for the rap battle isn't strictly a hip hop track...mixing it up... 

But, whatever...doesn't matter much to me :)  Just sayin...

 

Well going by initial reaction what we have isn't what members are looking for, although it does address some needs, or at least what we have is a change that would need a big adjustment...

 

Generally across the boards we will be simplifying and reducing boards to make navigation easier. The change to the critique boards bucks the trend in that there was a net gain of 3 boards.

 

onwards and upwards

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I will check back later, so please keep posting what your thoughts are. Just know that there were issues with the way it was, so let's not go backwards. If this is not right, my suggestion would be a single public board and a single restricted board. I will talk with rap and hip hop members too as they have expressed a desire for a dedicated area.

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John, here's a thought that might address both issues:

 

Instead of creating boards for almost every genre, why not identify the most popular genre that's posted in the original 'Song & Critique' section and create a separate board for that genre only? So, FOR EXAMPLE, it will look something like this:

 

Critique:

Song Critique:

---> 'Pop Music,' 'Mixed Genres,' 'Rap/HipHop,' and last but not least, 'Members Only.'

 

Forget about what I said about the '1+1' for now, tagging can take care of that quite nicely. I don't know much about 'Rap/HipHop,' but it seems to be gaining a lot of interest now with their 'Rap Song Contest,' going on! It's getting crazy :D

 

Ken

Edited by ImKeN
FOR EXAMPLE lol

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A good suggestion Ken. I would be happy to try it and see.

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There you go. Nice and easy.

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I just clicked on Lyrics Critique and it took me to Song Critique - Mixed Genres.

 

 

Edited by HoboSage

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Hi David, yep, because lyrics and song critique are now together in one critique board. This was for several reasons, but mainly to help get lyricists and music writers more aware of each other's content and to get them reviewing each other's work a bit more. Most of the song and recording guys write lyrics too. As with Genres and other aspects, tags will be the guide.

 

I would add that mixing the two into one critique section has been suggested/requested many times.

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It will be even more important to follow a topic now.  

 

More members will be good, more participation is good, change is difficult but we will work through it.

 

Darts and beer, same but different.

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'Darts and Beer' - great title for a song!

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Interesting that lyric-only posts are now to be posted for Song Critique, when a lyric alone is not even a song.  "There goes the neighborhood." <ducking> :) 

 

P.S.  For those that use Youtube to stream their recorded music and might also want critique of the visuals in addition to the song, you might also want to include "video" in the list of applicable tags to use.

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The only thing I can add is I was a moderator for another songwriters forum. This issue came up as they wanted more people to visit. The site was broken down into genres and they also had a Friday Night Open Mic spot which included all genres. The Friday Night spot was hopping, the other's not as much. I suggested not having separate genres but they kept it the way it was. The site hardly has any visitors at all anymore. My point, there has to be another way to keep and attract users. I don't care really with trying it this way, I'm just not sure how helpful it will be in the long run. Less covered genres will sink into oblivion unless there are enough people still willing to critique all kinds of music, and search a little more to do so.  Human nature, some people will divide and find a comfort zone sticking to their own genre and not feel the need to crit others work since that option is available. 2 cent carl. If I had a dollar for each time I heard "This isn't my kind of song but …" I'd have a little more money. 

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2 hours ago, john said:

A good suggestion Ken. I would be happy to try it and see.

 

Hey John, it's looking good and simple.

 

It says under 'Mixed Genres:'

 

"POST YOUR LYRICS, SONG OR INSTRUMENTAL HERE IF THEY DO NOT BELONG TO  A SPECIFIC GENRE."

 

Shouldn't it be: "...if they do not belong to Pop and Rap/Hip Hop?"

 

Also, 'Mixed Genres' might be a little misleading so something more straight forward like 'Other Genres,' might be more clear to understand?

 

Are you positive that Pop songs are the most common posts? Just checking because when I mentioned 'Pop Music,' it was just for an example.

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

 

 

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21 minutes ago, ImKeN said:

"POST YOUR LYRICS, SONG OR INSTRUMENTAL HERE IF THEY DO NOT BELONG TO  A SPECIFIC GENRE."

 

This line is confusing. There's Mixed, Pop and Rap. What if your song is country or rock? That fits none of these categories. I assume this isn't really a "don't let the door hit you…" change, just some wonky wording. :) Maybe "…A SPECIFIC GENRE LISTED BELOW??

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For me, getting the lyricists to mingle with the music makers is a big thing. Most of the guys and gals who make music, also hop into the lyric section to comment, but bar a couple of members, it's not a two way street.

i'll also be honest, I mentioned to John about the genres, as I felt it would be better to post this way. If you like specific genres, what's to stop you looking in those topics. It doesn't take much, just a couple of clicks.

i know that change can be a pain and daunting, but sometimes non-change can hold things back and it is good to keep moving forward.

 

As John mentioned, it can be adjusted if it's not working. Members have mentioned about no-one using the member sections. There are other topics and posts that haven't bee viewed or visited for absolutely ages.

 

I think this is a really good community and it needs to talk more and express what it wants, as the 40 odd pages you could visit, was a bit too much.

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13 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

Most of the guys and gals who make music, also hop into the lyric section to comment, but bar a couple of members, it's not a two way street.

 

FWIW, while it may have been the case that there were more musicians popping into the the Lyrics Critique forum to comment than the other way around, in my experience since I have been here, it has never been the case that most musicians primarily participating in the Song and Recording Critique forum would comment in the Lyrics Critique forum from time to time - most did not do that.  And, I suspect that, despite the new forum mixing, most lyrics-only members will continue to refrain from commenting on song/music posts, and most musicians will continue to refrain from commenting on lyric-only posts.  But,I might be wrong.  We shall see what happens.

Edited by HoboSage

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I agree Richard. Getting the lyricists and songwriters together is definitely a good thing. Time will tell on the genre thing as I've seen it not work before. I do think the members sections could go and stripping down the site will definitely make it more user friendly. Maybe the member section condenses into one category, STREAM MUSIC. And for those members qualifying and for songs that qualify, it's simply a way to stream music for the listener showcasing songs by songstuff members. It would also give a goal to those up and coming to try and get their music streamed here. 

Edited by Just1L

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P.S.  It has also been my experience here that the old Lyrics Critique board was more active than the old Song and Recording Critique board, likely due to there being more lyrics-only members, and that one can typically be more prolific with just writing lyrics than they can be doing actual full songs.  So, one potential "problem" I'll be watching for with the new combined forum is to see if lyric-only posts tend to push song/music posts down the forum listing of posts, thereby staking claim to more of the prime online real estate here.

Edited by HoboSage

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1 hour ago, HoboSage said:

Interesting that lyric-only posts are now to be posted for Song Critique, when a lyric alone is not even a song.  "There goes the neighborhood." <ducking> :) 

 

P.S.  For those that use Youtube to stream their recorded music and might also want critique of the visuals in addition to the song, you might also want to include "video" in the list of applicable tags to use.

 

Good idea about video. I had considered a separate board but this works better. :)

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That's a good point.  Real estate is basically one page long

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1 hour ago, ImKeN said:

 

Hey John, it's looking good and simple.

 

It says under 'Mixed Genres:'

 

"POST YOUR LYRICS, SONG OR INSTRUMENTAL HERE IF THEY DO NOT BELONG TO  A SPECIFIC GENRE."

 

Shouldn't it be: "...if they do not belong to Pop and Rap/Hip Hop?"

 

Also, 'Mixed Genres' might be a little misleading so something more straight forward like 'Other Genres,' might be more clear to understand?

 

Are you positive that Pop songs are the most common posts? Just checking because when I mentioned 'Pop Music,' it was just for an example.

 

Thanks,

 

Ken

 

 

 

I was in a hurry to attend an appointment (to start the ball rollingregistering Songstuff as a CIC, not for profit company.). I will remove Pop too. That takes us to half the boards we had before I started the re-org, as lyrics have now been absorbed. In essence we have merged the two areas.

 

I also increased the number of topics and posts per page from 25 to 30. If front page speed is an issue, I can extend it further.

 

As to Genres, I will leave that people writing for a genre can propose a dedicated board, or indeed other members may want a genre broken out into a dedicated board if they find the mixed genre board getting swamped.

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14 minutes ago, McnaughtonPark said:

That's a good point.  Real estate is basically one page long

 

See above. Hopefully extending board length will help... it is a site wide setting.

 

one other thing is that I intend archiving off old topics. They will still be accessible with read only permissions. This will help the speed of the boards

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