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TCgypsy

Why the hell did you shatter the critique section into genres?

59 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

P.S.  It has also been my experience here that the old Lyrics Critique board was more active than the old Song and Recording Critique board, likely due to there being more lyrics-only members, and that one can typically be more prolific with just writing lyrics than they can be doing actual full songs.  So, one potential "problem" I'll be watching for with the new combined forum is to see if lyric-only posts tend to push song/music posts down the forum listing of posts, thereby staking claim to more of the prime online real estate here.

 

Songs and words posts share one board? Yep those wordy people will fill a page in no time. 

 

Sounds crazy... 

 

5 hours ago, john said:

Generally across the boards we will be simplifying and reducing boards to make navigation easier. The change to the critique boards bucks the trend in that there was a net gain of 3 boards.

So...Words get lumped in with songs but some songs are separate depending on their genre? Is that right? So does somebody decide which genre lyrics are even though they have no music? 

 

Fun fun fun... I'll say again, I'm easy... don't want to be an old grouch...  it's just a case of, if the forum isn't feeling good to me I'll likely just use it less. And maybe I've misunderstood (it happens a lot, sorry if I have), but things are just sounding a bit crackers to me. 

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FWIW, I'd be in favor of completely banning lyric-only posts altogether to make this a true song forum. :)  Just throwing it out there.  LOL

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11 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

FWIW, I'd be in favor of completely banning lyric-only posts altogether to make this a true song forum. :)  Just throwing it out there.  LOL

 

:( ok I can take my words and go find some paper instead of guitars, drums, vocals, pianos, etc.

Edited by Peggy

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Awwww don't cry. David's a big bad meanie lol what's that you say? Poke him in the eye?[smiley=BlueTeamEnforcer.gif]

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59 minutes ago, MonoStone said:

 

Songs and words posts share one board? Yep those wordy people will fill a page in no time. 

 

Sounds crazy... 

 

So...Words get lumped in with songs but some songs are separate depending on their genre? Is that right? So does somebody decide which genre lyrics are even though they have no music? 

 

Fun fun fun... I'll say again, I'm easy... don't want to be an old grouch...  it's just a case of, if the forum isn't feeling good to me I'll likely just use it less. And maybe I've misunderstood (it happens a lot, sorry if I have), but things are just sounding a bit crackers to me. 

 

Dek - I think it also helps someone identify which genre they were thinking for their lyrics. I have asked before when wanting to comment on lyrics, as I like to know the style, so that I can assess what I can bring to the conversation.

 

so, if someone is writing for Country, they can identify it as such, same with religious, electronica, pop, rap etc.

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9 minutes ago, john said:

Awwww don't cry. David's a big bad meanie lol what's that you say? Poke him in the eye?[smiley=BlueTeamEnforcer.gif]

Just kidding.. David's right though, lyrics are just words .. I'm working on that.

:)

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6 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

 

Dek - I think it also helps someone identify which genre they were thinking for their lyrics. I have asked before when wanting to comment on lyrics, as I like to know the style, so that I can assess what I can bring to the conversation.

 

so, if someone is writing for Country, they can identify it as such, same with religious, electronica, pop, rap etc.

 

Hmmmm .... maybe for a few very specific Genres...Country, Rap, and ummm... Country and Rap... ;)  

Electronica, pop? Same thing sometimes... most genres crossover. Is anyone really writing words knowing they want them sung like Gary Numan? Seriously? I doubt many think that specifically when writing words outside of Country, Rap, and... Country... and... Rap... 

Edited by MonoStone
SPelleded Gary;s name rong

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Countrap?

 

Sounds bad lol

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Actually I might change my opinion a bit...

Happy to have Religious music separate...and a separate place for any o that line dancin' kinda country stuff... Yes I'm all for segregation then!

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Peggy, I'm just letting out my inner Troll - he's been frustrated since the Mosh Pit closed. :)

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I think one problem, which I know has not been overlooked by some (especially John and the staffers) is that this site can only get you so far. Similar to a lot of the writers on here, we've reached the point of what the site offers. Making new genre categories won't help it, I know because it's been done before and has been for a very long time on similar sites. Although, are there sites that do what songstuff does that are better off because they have segregated genres? Or are they all kind of mired in the same position? This site is great for the up comers and newbies, very great. I along with others have gotten tons of good advice, comments, etc… but then that basically is it. 

 

Much talk has been done about the current state of music, I know I've commented on music needing some sort of new movement. But, the truth is, if you look around we kind of are that movement. One of the biggest things going on in music today is that people are creating music from home. That's the movement, as haphazard as it is. The main problem is, in order to get further, we need to start playing with the big guys. And they have their own set of problems. But it's a new world. What if songstuff was more like a song farm/incubator? New musicians coming, knowing that this site can offer more of an end game scenario. If there was a way to connect this site with all the streaming radio services out there for example, it would give a solid goal to shoot for. The idea is what sparked my STREAMING comment. It's also similar to what I talked to John about a few years back concerning songstuff having a radio show on indie radio stations across the country. In a way it's like the site, as well as a good amount of musicians on here, are stuck in the exact same position, needing to take it to the next level. Just a thought of course. It's a time consuming effort without a doubt and I know it's very hard for John and others to try to concentrate on their music, when they're splitting the time taking care of this site.

 

Edited by Just1L

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16 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

Peggy, I'm just letting out my inner Troll - he's been frustrated since the Mosh Pit closed. :)

:) .. it's past time for me to present more than just lyrics...and I have the ability and desire to do so.  

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8 hours ago, john said:

 

How can we, or any forum, improve things if our members don't allow us to try things out? Sometimes that can mean making mistakes. If you as members try things and don't like them, fair enough, they can always be changed.

 

It sounds like you weren't entirely happy with the way things were... so what would you like to see? I am perfectly happy if your idea is better than what we have, at any point. After all, the way the boards work for all of you is the important thing.

 

Nothing is set in stone. If you don't like something then by all means make suggestions. We can't guarantee to implement everything everyone wants but we have always tried to accommodate opinions balanced with need.

 

all music on the same page please...

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2 hours ago, Just1L said:

 

 

Quote

Much talk has been done about the current state of music, I know I've commented on music needing some sort of new movement. But, the truth is, if you look around we kind of are that movement. One of the biggest things going on in music today is that people are creating music from home. That's the movement, as haphazard as it is.

 

I think you are so "on to it".  So many other things too in "music" ( not taking anything away from big world of music)..but there has been creativity afoot ... that has challenged conventional practice and norms.  

2 hours ago, Just1L said:

What if songstuff was more like a song farm/incubator? New musicians coming, knowing that this site can offer more of an end game scenario.

 

Song farm/incubator :) awesome!!

 

But Songstuff is more than that..with a whole lot more possibility..but it is up to us...and how we pursue our own definition of success. "Frustrated Artist" well kinda is a driving force in music and pretty normal... just using those words in summary. Not saying folks are all frustrated.

 

Great post!  Still thinking about the new format.

 

 

 

Edited by Peggy
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Man, I already didn't visit the "members only" or "explicit" board because, for me personally, multiple forums are too much to keep track of.  I do my best to participate in just the one, and already do a bad job of that when life is busy.  I can't imagine having to go through multiple "genre" forums just to feel like I'm keeping up with what's happening here.

I also gotta say, that there's more than likely a subset of people who "prefer" one genre over another.  And while they may have previously just clicked on new posts and then found, "Oh, this isn't the genre I know best, but I'm here listening anyway, so let's see if I can help," well...I have to think that at least some of them will now say, "Oh, cool...a 1+1 forum.  That's what I know.  I'll hang out there."  In a way, it could fracture the community in a way that means less critiques per post.

 

Now, I suppose you could argue that the remaining posts would have more validity and therefore be more helpful because they come from people who really know your genre...or that the new structure would pull in so many new members that they'd make up for this splitting effect.  But banking on that seems like a bit of a gamble at this point.

Anyway...for me personally, I really can't imagine sticking around if this stays the way it is.  I really hate it, lol.  (Not suggesting my presence here is something you need to consider or anything.  You'd be fine without me.  Just stating a fact.)

Oh well...look forward to seeing how this ends up resolving.

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4 hours ago, HoboSage said:

 

FWIW, while it may have been the case that there were more musicians popping into the the Lyrics Critique forum to comment than the other way around, in my experience since I have been here, it has never been the case that most musicians primarily participating in the Song and Recording Critique forum would comment in the Lyrics Critique forum from time to time - most did not do that.  And, I suspect that, despite the new forum mixing, most lyrics-only members will continue to refrain from commenting on song/music posts, and most musicians will continue to refrain from commenting on lyric-only posts.  But,I might be wrong.  We shall see what happens.


I'm one of those people you talk about.  I didn't ever head into the lyric board, and there's zero chance I'll start critiquing lyrics just because they're included.  It's two completely different things in my mind.  I think it's awesome that some people find themselves commenting on both, but I think you're probably correct that this isn't the norm.

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40 minutes ago, shadowfax said:

 

all music on the same page please...

 

Have you looked at what we have now? Less boards than before the reorganisation started.

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I think I was the first to complain about the new critique forum structure.  But, I'm going to give it a fair chance, because I think I owe it this community to give it a chance.  I know change is hard, but I ask that others also give the new setup a chance.  As members, we know we are valued by John and Songstuff, and John has indicated that if it doesn't work out, changes will again be made.  So, c'mon gang, let's give it a fair chance.  We can do this!

 

David

Edited by HoboSage
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9 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

I think I was the first to complain about the new critique forum structure.  But, I'm going to give it a fair chance, because I think I owe it this community to give it a chance.  I know change is hard, but I ask that others also give the new setup a chance.  As members, we know we are valued by John and Songstuff, and John has indicated that if it doesn't work out, changes will again be made.  So, c'mon gang, let's give it a fair chance.  We can do this!

 

David

 

Well said David... like everything in life, fear of the unknown is what holds us back. Change can be a good thing if it is done correctly and with the best intentions. 

 

I think the intentions here here are for the good. I know I try to visit as many posts as possible over all the sections, but there were too many. I would like to critique on lyrics, as I like writing lyrics, but I need more information on the feel the writer is going for. No-one writes down lyrics without an idea of what they would like them to be. Even if that idea is in their subconscious. They borrow words, format, ideas, even the structure and beat from other songs, they might not realise it, but that is what happens. We are informed in life by our upbringing, what has gone on before. It's how we learn and then how we teach.

 

Even though the forum is broken into genres, everyone on here will have a member they follow or like. If they post, go check out their song/lyrics. If you want to stay in that section for a little bit. Do that. Don't be afraid to explore. As John has said, the sections have been cut in half, there is less areas we have to think about checking out.

 

New song posts will still show up on the front page. Comments made by the members will still be there. 

 

At at the moment, posts disappear too quickly onto a second page anyway, or the section feels like a ghost town for days/weeks on end. Bringing everyone together is meant to inspire, not frighten or put members off.

 

This is a good community, I wouldn't want that ruined because people feel a change has been forced on them and they aren't willing to give it a try.

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39 minutes ago, cutaia said:

Now, I suppose you could argue that the remaining posts would have more validity and therefore be more helpful because they come from people who really know your genre...or that the new structure would pull in so many new members that they'd make up for this splitting effect.  But banking on that seems like a bit of a gamble at this point.

Anyway...for me personally, I really can't imagine sticking around if this stays the way it is.  I really hate it, lol.  (Not suggesting my presence here is something you need to consider or anything.  You'd be fine without me.  Just stating a fact.)

Oh well...look forward to seeing how this ends up resolving.

 

You really hate... what? Before the reorganisation started we had:

 

the song and recording board

an instrumental board

a member Only board

a parental advisory board

a lyrics board (and archive)

a lyrics parental advisory

a lyrics members only board

a rap and hip hop lyrics board

a rap and hip hop music board

 

Now we have:

 

mixed genre board

lyrics archive

rap and hip hop board

restrcted access board

 

the genre boards were removed hours ago.

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4 minutes ago, john said:

 

You really hate... what?

 

the genre boards were removed hours ago.


Yeah, I see now that the genre boards were removed.  That's a good step.

 

But I still think lyric and song critiques are such different beasts that they don't belong lumped together.

First, the good:  I think that getting rid of "Instrumentals" was a great decision.  Never understood the need for that.  If there was an "explicit" AND a "rap and hip hop" board before, then I think it was smart to reduce that to just the "rap and hip hop" board.  The few times I looked in the "explicit" forum, I saw mostly rap anyway.

But quite frankly, if you left lyrics separated that would still reduce us from 9 to 6 boards:

 

Recordings

Rap and Hip Hop Recordings

Members Only Recordings

Lyrics

Rap and Hip Hop Lyrics

Members Only Lyrics

 

That would indeed eliminate some of the more pointless and confusing board clutter, so that's great.

 

Going all the way to 3, however, just to achieve the effect of "even fewer boards," might be going too far.  Seems like it's going to cause more problems than it would solve.  I think Hobo's point makes a lot of sense, and I doubt it's going to suddenly lead to people critiquing in areas they didn't before.  If people are generally sticking to either song or lyric forums, it's probably because that's what they're comfortable critiquing (I know that's the case for myself).  You'd be the one who can access the data on how often people *do* cross over, I suppose, but if Hobo's guess is correct, and the crossover really doesn't exist on a large scale, doesn't this just give both sides a board full of posts they aren't particularly interested in?

 

And if the way to reduce the "clutter" of three lyrics boards existing, is to instead pump everyone's boards full of "clutter" in the form of posts...well, then I'm not sure that's worth it.  I can easily ignore some lyrics boards.  But I gotta say, the 10th time I click on a post and find it was yet another lyric post I didn't care about...ugh...that's gonna be a part I'll still "hate."

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That is why it is being advised to add 'tags' to advise what you would like critiqued - if you can see that someone is only wanting 'lyrics' critiqued, you could ignore that.

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Hi @john and everyone,

 

I just wanna say that I'm willing to give this new system a try and see how things play out. :)

 

With that being said, since there are a lot of folks that are now going to be bunched up all together in one section, I think it'll do everyone a lot of good by creating a '1+1/Acoustic' section to ease the burden on the 'Mixed Genres.' 1+1/Acoustic is not a genre, it's basically everything unplugged and that includes rough 1+1 recordings. Please consider this idea. [smiley=hippy.gif]

 

Also, for more clarity could you put bigger labels like these? 

 

58b5e4064b306_2017-03-0105_33_58.thumb.png.b70e8defc9e9ad8252be8c5d64915453.png

Edited by ImKeN

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25 minutes ago, Richard Tracey said:

That is why it is being advised to add 'tags' to advise what you would like critiqued - if you can see that someone is only wanting 'lyrics' critiqued, you could ignore that.


Oh, I know it's being advised.  But 1) we're relying on every single member of a community to know and follow this rule properly each time, and 2) even if everyone magically does it right each time, I'm not personally excited to have to do an extra check every time I'm considering clicking on a thread.

Just saying...that's a downside of this new organization to me.  And no amount of, "Well, people are supposed to do this now," is likely to change that.  So, I bring it up.

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Good that you do cutaia.

 

What I would ask is that members give it a shot for even a few days, and we can sort out further change while you do so. Is that okay?

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1 hour ago, ImKeN said:

Hi @john and everyone,

 

I just wanna say that I'm willing to give this new system a try and see how things play out. :)

 

With that being said, since there are a lot of folks that are now going to be bunched up all together in one section, I think it'll do everyone a lot of good by creating a '1+1/Acoustic' section to ease the burden on the 'Mixed Genres.' 1+1/Acoustic is not a genre, it's basically everything unplugged and that includes rough 1+1 recordings. Please consider this idea. [smiley=hippy.gif]

 

Also, for more clarity could you put bigger labels like these? 

 

58b5e4064b306_2017-03-0105_33_58.thumb.png.b70e8defc9e9ad8252be8c5d64915453.png

 

I can look into making tags bigger. As you can see the bottom one in the screen grab has a red tag to the left of the topic title. That is when you select a tag as a topic prefix.

 

I agree with Cutaia that we're are talking an ideal scenario regards member usage of tags.

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Incidentally you can select a tag and see all content with that tag. Unfortunately there is no way to see everything but that tag.

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24 minutes ago, john said:

Good that you do cutaia.

 

What I would ask is that members give it a shot for even a few days, and we can sort out further change while you do so. Is that okay?


Hell yeah.  Of course.  Just providing as much initial feedback as I can.  That's what we do here, after all. :P

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45 minutes ago, john said:

I can look into making tags bigger.

 

49 minutes ago, john said:

What I would ask is that members give it a shot for even a few days, and we can sort out further change while you do so.

 

Thanks a lot, John. I'll go back to my normal routine, now. :D

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