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I'd like to hear some feedback on this tune, Control Freak. Any suggestions about this recording and production, accompaniment, lyrics, and whatever else you can throw at me. I'm mainly concerned about the instrumentation because I'm not very skilled on synth and was experimenting. This song has been re-written a few times and I think it's improved with each re-write.

 

 

 

Edited by emilyandersonmusic
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shadowfax    48

If Taylor Swift sang this it would be a big seller..fab pop song!!! nice singing also, recording is a bit dry though..some reverb on the vocal and some delay on the synths would bring this song right up to speed..really commercial sound..well done!!

Edited by shadowfax
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ImKeN    274

Lovely song, Emily. I love the sound of your voice, it has a lot of character!

 

For me, I thought the loud synth @0:40 and @2:21, with some type of modulation effect, was quite distracting. But I didn't mind it being way back in the background like @1:18. The vocals may benefit from a little widening out, like Shadowfax suggested.

 

The arrangement is very clever and creative, it kept my interest throughout the song. The clapping @2:04 was a great addition!

 

I'm no expert but it seems that with artists like Lana Del Rey out there, I think there's a real demand for your style of music. 

 

There are some pretty good producers hanging around here in the forums. Maybe you should take advantage of that :)

 

All the best,

 

Ken

Edited by ImKeN

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MonoStone    915

Hello,

 

I think this is a really good song... well, actually I think it has a lot to do with your performance, really great! I can't claim to know what's really commercial, but I have a feeling this could be with the right treatment....or for that matter it could be strange but very catchy and impressive with another treatment. I think it's a fantastic start, and should be developed.

 

I think you could improve the mix... it's a bit on the narrow side, I mean there's a lot happening near the center... Easiest to tell in headphones...I wanted it to feel wider. 

 

I also think you could improve the arrangement. I like what you're doing...the sounds are a matter of taste so I won't criticize any...but I felt like the song promised to reach a much bigger point with more going on. Also, I'm not sure about the lack of drums or bass throughout, without them it never really takes off. I kept feeling that it was going to really kick in, but it didn't. The arrangement you have is very subtle... then again, if that's how you like it...very good.

 

Hard for me to be more specific in a post... but I suppose in short - Whilst I think your recording quality is great, and everything sounds nice and clear, and the sparse arrangement is inventive...I feel like it still sounds like just the start. I think it could be WOW! if you really go for it with the arrangement and production. And if you prefer not to use drums then certainly make something more percussive with the synth sounds and get more bottom in a bass synth, and still produce it to be wider and to get bigger at some point.

 

All just my opinion. Sorry if I didn't explain well.

 

Dek

 

 

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its a great song, your a very talented singer with a beautiful voice. your vocals would deffo be lifted up with a bit of reverb. great work :)

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HoboSage    1,997

Hi, Emily.  Before I decide if I should go further with my comments, I'd like to know what software you're using to record, and if it's Windows or Mac.

 

Thanks,

David

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Thanks for the input! 

9 hours ago, shadowfax said:

If Taylor Swift sang this it would be a big seller..fab pop song!!! nice singing also, recording is a bit dry though..some reverb on the vocal and some delay on the synths would bring this song right up to speed..really commercial sound..well done!!

 

If only Taylor Swift would cover my song! Definitely gonna add some reverb on the vocal and delay in the synths per your suggestion. Thanks!

 

7 hours ago, ImKeN said:

Lovely song, Emily. I love the sound of your voice, it has a lot of character!

 

For me, I thought the loud synth @0:40 and @2:21, with some type of modulation effect, was quite distracting. But I didn't mind it being way back in the background like @1:18. The vocals may benefit from a little widening out, like Shadowfax suggested.

 

The arrangement is very clever and creative, it kept my interest throughout the song. The clapping @2:04 was a great addition!

 

I'm no expert but it seems that with artists like Lana Del Rey out there, I think there's a real demand for your style of music. 

 

There are some pretty good producers hanging around here in the forums. Maybe you should take advantage of that :)

 

All the best,

 

Ken

 

Ahh, yes, ImKeN, I can probably decrease the volume of that sound. I barely notice it when listening through my monitor speakers, but when listening through headphones it's quite loud. I tend to miss a lot of subtlety because I hate wearing headphones.

 

And if there is a demand for my music, I hope somebody finds it! To date I've made approximately 0$ off of music sales. (Then again, I've yet to get a high-quality production for any of my songs, so I haven't pushed it.)

 

And, I'm completely open to the option of collaborating with a producer. I feel quite clueless when it comes to that part of the process.

 

7 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Hello,

 

I think this is a really good song... well, actually I think it has a lot to do with your performance, really great! I can't claim to know what's really commercial, but I have a feeling this could be with the right treatment....or for that matter it could be strange but very catchy and impressive with another treatment. I think it's a fantastic start, and should be developed.

 

I think you could improve the mix... it's a bit on the narrow side, I mean there's a lot happening near the center... Easiest to tell in headphones...I wanted it to feel wider. 

 

I also think you could improve the arrangement. I like what you're doing...the sounds are a matter of taste so I won't criticize any...but I felt like the song promised to reach a much bigger point with more going on. Also, I'm not sure about the lack of drums or bass throughout, without them it never really takes off. I kept feeling that it was going to really kick in, but it didn't. The arrangement you have is very subtle... then again, if that's how you like it...very good.

 

Hard for me to be more specific in a post... but I suppose in short - Whilst I think your recording quality is great, and everything sounds nice and clear, and the sparse arrangement is inventive...I feel like it still sounds like just the start. I think it could be WOW! if you really go for it with the arrangement and production. And if you prefer not to use drums then certainly make something more percussive with the synth sounds and get more bottom in a bass synth, and still produce it to be wider and to get bigger at some point.

 

All just my opinion. Sorry if I didn't explain well.

 

Dek

 

 


Thanks MonoStone. I think you are right about the production and arrangement. I have tried some synth drums but couldn't make it work well with my lack of skill in that area. I added claps at one point because it seemed the best option for me to get some sort of percussion in there that didn't sound bad. And then that synth plucking sound that starts off the song was my attempt at a bass.  Anyway, I'll experiment some more to see if I can add some more bass and percussion sounds to push this song further.

 

6 hours ago, ALOPRODUCTIONZ said:

its a great song, your a very talented singer with a beautiful voice. your vocals would deffo be lifted up with a bit of reverb. great work :)

Thank you Aloproductionz! I appreciate your feedback, and I'm definitely going to add some reverb.

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1 minute ago, HoboSage said:

Hi, Emily.  Before I decide if I should go further with my comments, I'd like to know what software you're using to record, and if it's Windows or Mac.

 

Thanks,

David

It's a Mac. I'm using Garage Band.

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HoboSage    1,997

Does your version of Garage Band have "Drummer," and if so, have you tried using that to add drums to this?

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1 minute ago, HoboSage said:

Does your version of Garage Band have "Drummer," and if so, have you tried using that to add drums to this?

I tried it for a while with another song, but I couldn't get over how fake it sounded.  It could be that it just wasn't appropriate for the song I was using it for.

 

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HoboSage    1,997

I'm not a Mac guy and  have no idea how Drummer works in either Garage Band or Logic, but others here do.  If you can select what drums sounds to use, it might be an option for you to try with this song, because it sounds to me like you're going for a quirky-cool pop sound, and that means you need drums - just my opinion.  I would think for this particular song you'd want synthetic-sounding and not really natural-sounding drum sounds - it's just that kind of tune.  But, anyway . .  .

 

I've listened to a lot of your stuff on Reverbnation.  You're not only a fine singer, you've got killer chops on piano and apparently you slay with an oboe too? :)  I know you probably think you're just getting into music production, but with your talent, you should consider it a worthwhile investment to upgrade to Logic Pro as soon as you can.  Again, just my opinion, and I have that opinion about your talent because you also shine as a wordsmith - this song included.  Fab lyric.

 

I did notice that you have substantially reduced the incidents of p-pops/plosives in your vocal tracks since your earlier recordings, but for some reason those earlier recordings sounded like they had less hiss from the mic+pre-amp than you have here.  Not sure why.  It also sounds to me that even though you have reduced the plosives, you still have some, and the mic is also picking some extraneous noises from your mouth.  All in all, it sounds to me like you're singing a bit too close to the mic.

 

Another thing I can hear in this recording are clicks from your mouse at some points when you start the recording for the vocal track and/or stop the recording - including at the end of the song.  That happens to me too.  What you need to do is highlight the audio clips for the vocal tracks, and cut and/or trim the clips so that they only sound while you're actually singing. Here's a tutorial on how to do that in Garage Band.  http://www.techradar.com/how-to/computing/apple/garageband-how-to-trim-a-track-1302336  It's always good practice to make sure you click the start of the vocal track a bit before you start singing (if you can given the timing of things)  and that you wait a bit until after you stop singing before you click stop (again if you can given the timing of things).  That way, any mouse clicks that get recorded at the beginning and at the ending of the audio clip won't be super-close to your actual singing so that trimming the track to remove the clicks will be easy to do.  Also, trimming the vocal tracks so that they start right when you start singing and end right after you stop singing can mitigate against the hiss being heard before and after you're actually singing, perhaps making the vocal track hiss less noticeable in the mix.

 

As I said, I think this song is fab.  I also think you structured it very well - even the bridge works great.  I do have one nit though.  I really don't think the song is long enough in duration, and is aching for a longer ending having you repeating the killer chorus and hook.  In fact, the current ending kind of sounds like you really didn't know quite how to end the song. :)  I think you should keep going having your backing vocals singing "control freak"  while your lead vocal sings things like "yeah, I'm a freak for control baby ,"  etc. in a more free-form kind of way.  After a further while, you could end the song with the music coming to a full-all-stop in rhythm with all vocals then singing "control freak" a cappella in harmony, or you could have a fade out while you're still singing.  Just ideas.

 

I think you show really good instincts for how you want to have the instruments arranged in this song.  Even though I personally think some of the synth sounds themselves might not have been the best choices for this tune, the notes they play sound "right" to me  Dek (MonoStone) complains that there's no bass.  I think you do have a synth playing a bass arrangement in the song; it's just not the best choice of a bass sound for the arrangement.  Again, just my opinion.

 

I think you're just "better production" away from doing incredible work, Emily.  I don't know if I've been any help to you right now, but if you stick around, maybe I can be of help - and if I can't, maybe someone else can be of help. :)

 

David

 

P.S.  If you would re-do Wilderness at some point to eliminate all the vocal track plosives, you would make me a very happy man.  What an amazing song. :) 

 

 

 

 

Edited by HoboSage
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Wow, HoboSage! Thanks a zillion times for this thorough feedback. And I'm thrilled that you listened to my sad, old recordings from ages ago on reverbnation. I haven't thought about Wilderness in a long time, but will now think about re-working that one, for sure.

 

Anyway, just now I was experimenting some more with the drums for control freak, and it did sound better than I remember when I was trying it with another tune. I'm daunted by the idea of learning how to produce better to have more professional sounding recordings, but I realize there is probably no better way so I should just get to it. I actually purchased Logic a few years ago, but I found Garage band easier, so I just went back to using it.. 

 

The reason my older recordings have less hiss is because I had a better pre-amp, but then I moved and somehow once I got everything set up in the new place, my imac no longer recognized my profire 2626 and I had to start using a cheaper M-Audio FastTrack, an I'm using an SM58 mic. I assume that's why the hiss. :/ I hope to fix in in the next year or two.

 

Thanks for your ideas about the ending and the bass sound/instrument choices. Some real food for thought that I can digest.

 

 

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ImKeN    274

Emily, the thing I like the most about your song is that it has your fingerprint on it, it has your unique sound so please continue to go with your instincts! [smiley=hippy.gif]

 

A lot of information is out there, I'm a beginner as well in production and I always look for production/mixing tips and tricks on youtube :)

 

"...I assume that's why the hiss. :/ I hope to fix in in the next year or two."

 

For the hissing issue, here's a video that might come in handy:      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LRWrdFxavo

 

Here's a grageband tutorial for the Drummer Plugin:                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX425KtC-wk

 

And here's a soundtrack idea I made a few days ago, where I decided to go with a Drummer Plugin(Logic ProX) for the first time. It's not the real thing but I think it gets the general idea across:                        https://soundcloud.com/imken-2/one-life4/s-eu6QA

 

Edited by ImKeN
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Blupa    46

Hey, Emily, I really love everything - but the space synth in the back, it just feels… misplaced? Maybe dirty it up a bit and lower it? Not sure, though. Your strongest card is, without doubt, your vocals!!

Cheers, Geir

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MonoStone    915
9 hours ago, emilyandersonmusic said:

Thanks MonoStone. I think you are right about the production and arrangement. I have tried some synth drums but couldn't make it work well with my lack of skill in that area. I added claps at one point because it seemed the best option for me to get some sort of percussion in there that didn't sound bad. And then that synth plucking sound that starts off the song was my attempt at a bass.  Anyway, I'll experiment some more to see if I can add some more bass and percussion sounds to push this song further.

 

If you've heard a song which has elements or even an overall sound similar to what you imagine for this... Just listen carefully and try to dissect it a bit, so that you have something to follow (I don't mean copy). Or post the names of any tracks here so that others can hear roughly what you're going for with one element or another, in case they can help. I mean for example - Do you really want drums? If so what kind? Sounding fairly real, or very synthetic, programmed or natural? Same for other elements...  And it's easiest to show that from other tracks I think.

 

Or if you imagine something miles from any other sound... yes just experiment until it sounds right to you. I found it hard to comment in more detail because I'm not sure what you want the end result to sound like...and my vision would likely be very different (and probably not as good ;)  ) 

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Richard Tracey    289

Hi Emily - I've not had a chance to listen to your track yet, but really liked your other one and it had a kind of Tori Amos/Kate Bush vibe with the way you sing and the quirkiness of the music/lyric and arrangement.

 

I am going to give this a listen to later when I get a minute, but I will second David (Hobo) suggestion about upgrading to Logic Pro. I find the new version of GarageBand is okay for starting a song, but is nowhere near good enough for taking it further. They stripped it right back, as they want people to pay for Logic.

 

When it comes to GarageBand, it is similar to Logic now, so any questions you might have, just ask.

 

David mentioned about the clicks at the start at end. There is a simple trick to stop this, but it's entails using a fade on the vocal track, which is very easy to do. I can do a quick video to show you how to do this if you want?

 

The drummer is actually very good and can be a nice starter for the beginning a song. It is easy to tweak the sounds and get something resembling what you want. If you don't like the sounds, you can turn the drummer to midi and change the drum samples.

 

I have been speaking to John about doing videos, possibly reviews of plugins/vsts/daw's - and anything else any member is looking for assistance with. I have not started this yet, but if this is something you would like, I can see about starting with the drummer as a beginner tutorial, although there are tons on YouTube.

 

Domyou have a microphone pop shield? They are worth investing in and don't cost a lot. It is also possible to make your own using an old wire coat hanger and tights.

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15 hours ago, MonoStone said:

 

If you've heard a song which has elements or even an overall sound similar to what you imagine for this... Just listen carefully and try to dissect it a bit, so that you have something to follow (I don't mean copy). Or post the names of any tracks here so that others can hear roughly what you're going for with one element or another, in case they can help. I mean for example - Do you really want drums? If so what kind? Sounding fairly real, or very synthetic, programmed or natural? Same for other elements...  And it's easiest to show that from other tracks I think.

 

Or if you imagine something miles from any other sound... yes just experiment until it sounds right to you. I found it hard to comment in more detail because I'm not sure what you want the end result to sound like...and my vision would likely be very different (and probably not as good ;)  ) 

 

I'm not sure what I want the end result to sound like. I was hoping this was it. But, I can't think of a recording that is similar to what I'm looking for. I have a lot of ideas to work with now, so I'll see what happens. 

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14 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:

Hi Emily - I've not had a chance to listen to your track yet, but really liked your other one and it had a kind of Tori Amos/Kate Bush vibe with the way you sing and the quirkiness of the music/lyric and arrangement.

 

I am going to give this a listen to later when I get a minute, but I will second David (Hobo) suggestion about upgrading to Logic Pro. I find the new version of GarageBand is okay for starting a song, but is nowhere near good enough for taking it further. They stripped it right back, as they want people to pay for Logic.

 

When it comes to GarageBand, it is similar to Logic now, so any questions you might have, just ask.

 

David mentioned about the clicks at the start at end. There is a simple trick to stop this, but it's entails using a fade on the vocal track, which is very easy to do. I can do a quick video to show you how to do this if you want?

 

The drummer is actually very good and can be a nice starter for the beginning a song. It is easy to tweak the sounds and get something resembling what you want. If you don't like the sounds, you can turn the drummer to midi and change the drum samples.

 

I have been speaking to John about doing videos, possibly reviews of plugins/vsts/daw's - and anything else any member is looking for assistance with. I have not started this yet, but if this is something you would like, I can see about starting with the drummer as a beginner tutorial, although there are tons on YouTube.

 

Domyou have a microphone pop shield? They are worth investing in and don't cost a lot. It is also possible to make your own using an old wire coat hanger and tights.

Thanks for your suggestions. I will dig out the old Logic Pro and see what I can do. I'll be sure to ask questions! Thanks for the support. I know how to get rid of clicks now, and will fix that in this song -- I don't even notice the clicks in the recording. I watched a few videos about drummer, and I can work with it a bit. I have a pop screen, but apparently I still sing too close to the mic for it to be particularly effective. As for the Youtube videos, sure, put them up if you can!  The whole thing is a bit overwhelming to me, so I will need all the help I can get. 

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14 hours ago, HoboSage said:

Did you try reinstalling the ProFire 2626 drivers?  http://www.m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/profire-series-driver-v2.4.4-mac

I'll try this. I can't remember if I re-installed this last time. I'll spend some time on it this weekend. 

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15 hours ago, HoboSage said:

Did you try reinstalling the ProFire 2626 drivers?  http://www.m-audio.com/support/download/drivers/profire-series-driver-v2.4.4-mac

Actually, it's the firewire port on the mac that's not working. It doesn't work for any device.

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This was my attempt at adding drums through Garage Band. I also removed all the space bar clicks and added some reverb to the vocals, deepened the timbre of some of the instruments, mixed some. I feel like I don't really know what I'm doing with the drums and I'm wondering how obvious it is?...but maybe it's closer? I'm not sure if these drums improve the song. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I made the drum beat more complex at the end, but I may have gone too far.

 

EDIT:

Sorry, Listen to this one instead:

Control Freak Drums Template - 3_2_17, 10.30 PM.mp3

Edited by emilyandersonmusic

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Richard Tracey    289

Hi Emily - could you post it on SoundCloud - most of the members don't download files to listen to... even post it as you did above, that would be fine.

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Richard Tracey    289

Hi Emily - I had a listen to the original version and first off I think your voice is great and suits this kind of song. Like others have said, it will be interesting to hear what the drums will bring, as it feels like it needs a bit of a groove going on. Some of the instrumentation sounds cheap, but that is one of the problems with GarageBand. Do you have the update with Alchemy? It has much better sounds to use, if not Logic definitely has. There are also tons of vsts out there that would give you the sounds you might be looking for.

I think as a song, it sounds like it has the making of being a fantastic track and your vocal should definitely be to the forefront.

 

Will listen to the updated version once you post it to stream... cheers

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9 hours ago, emilyandersonmusic said:

This was my attempt at adding drums through Garage Band. I also removed all the space bar clicks and added some reverb to the vocals, deepened the timbre of some of the instruments, mixed some. I feel like I don't really know what I'm doing with the drums and I'm wondering how obvious it is?...but maybe it's closer? I'm not sure if these drums improve the song. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I made the drum beat more complex at the end, but I may have gone too far.

 

EDIT:

Sorry, Listen to this one instead:

 

 

This one is steadier, and the drumbeat is not really much more complex at the end. I deleted that one. (I got excited and started posting things too soon.) I'm going to leave this here for a while this time, I promise!!

Here it is with drums, stream-form.

Edited by emilyandersonmusic

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ImKeN    274
1 hour ago, emilyandersonmusic said:

(I got excited and started posting things too soon.)

 

I think more a few of us do that from time to time - I know I'm guilty lol

 

I'm gonna be honest with you, I think you should leave the drums out and instead add simpler percussive sounds like shakers, bongos etc. The drummer plugin really killed the authenticity that the song had, originally.

 

Just my 2 yens(¥) :)

 

Ken

 

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HoboSage    1,997

FWIW, I think Ken, and anyone else who thinks these drums are anything but a huge improvement driving the rhythm, are bonkers. :)  I think what these drums do for this song is pretty damn good stuff.  You could play around with adding effects to "dirty up" the drums sounds to get them sounding a bit more synthetic without getting more boomy.  The mix right now is a bit boomy in the lower-mids due to too much reverb on the lower floor tom drum sound.  I also think now you do need a really solid bass line.  Just my personal opinions.

 

P.S.  If your firewire port on the Mac isn't working, you can try using a firewire-to-USB or firewire-to thunderbolt adapter to connect your ProFire 2626.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=firewire+usb+adaptor&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=153645950537&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8360407046783611109&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009387&hvtargid=kwd-934983688&ref=pd_sl_12tsgx0f60_b

Edited by HoboSage
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MonoStone    915

Yeah...drums work... just needs work. I like the toms (apart from they take over the way they're mixed)...didn't like some cymbal sounds but It's down to what you prefer isn't it....

 

I still think the arrangement needs to get a lot bigger at some point, for my taste. It could use some power from the instruments in places and I feel like it needs more dynamics, it kind of stays on a similar level throughout. Your vocal carries it, but if you improve the arrangement to add more drama to the music I think it'll be way better. 

 

For what it's worth... my gut feeling would be to use some brass. Floor toms and brass, mixed with synth bass and pop production ;) 

Edited by MonoStone

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8 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Yeah...drums work... just needs work. I like the toms (apart from they take over the way they're mixed)...didn't like some cymbal sounds but It's down to what you prefer isn't it....

 

I still think the arrangement needs to get a lot bigger at some point, for my taste. It could use some power from the instruments in places and I feel like it needs more dynamics, it kind of stays on a similar level throughout. Your vocal carries it, but if you improve the arrangement to add more drama to the music I think it'll be way better. 

 

For what it's worth... my gut feeling would be to use some brass. Floor toms and brass, mixed with synth bass and pop production ;) 

Brass is a great idea --  Adjusting the drums a bit and adding some brass in the middle for more power are next on my agenda. 

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8 hours ago, HoboSage said:

FWIW, I think Ken, and anyone else who thinks these drums are anything but a huge improvement driving the rhythm, are bonkers. :)  I think what these drums do for this song is pretty damn good stuff.  You could play around with adding effects to "dirty up" the drums sounds to get them sounding a bit more synthetic without getting more boomy.  The mix right now is a bit boomy in the lower-mids due to too much reverb on the lower floor tom drum sound.  I also think now you do need a really solid bass line.  Just my personal opinions.

 

P.S.  If your firewire port on the Mac isn't working, you can try using a firewire-to-USB or firewire-to thunderbolt adapter to connect your ProFire 2626.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=firewire+usb+adaptor&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=153645950537&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8360407046783611109&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9009387&hvtargid=kwd-934983688&ref=pd_sl_12tsgx0f60_b

I'll try the firewire to USB -- Didn't think about that. And I'll work on the drums, and possibly the bass line. 

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