Crowd-funding?? Any thoughts??

[Vara La Fey]

I read an article yesterday about Amanda Palmer, a singer who got herself hugely crowd-funded on Kickstarter. Does anyone have any real knowledge or personal experience with crowd-funding?

 

I'm a trans-girl working to hone my writing skills so I can put together an all-trans band and maybe take it somewhere. The time is soooo right for this!! Being trans, I'm basically a part of the "LGBT" community (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Trans and nowadays countless others). The LGBT is very good about supporting its members and generally sticking together. There's friction, but we're generally good about it. And generally affluent. And generally have very few members writing hot original LGBT-themed music for us - and somewhere right around ONE hard rocking all-trans bands currently doing it. I think the LGBT is my built-in audience, and would be perfect crowd-funding donors of LGBT projects in general. If you can reach 'em. I won't even tell you how bad my financial situation is right now. Let's just leave it at this: I badly need it.

 

In general (LGBT or not), how do you beg your peeps for money? What do they need to ensure that their donations are going to a legitimate cause or project, rather than just dope? Or are these sites disappearing because of dope money and other scams?

[Richard Tracey]

I think crowdfunding is still a legitimate way of sourcing capital to start you out. A lot of big acts are starting to use it, but you have got to offer something in return. Look at a lot of the music acts that use Kickstarter and see what they are doing. Speak to the LGBT groups and see if they will back you, which should give credence to your crowdfunding. If people know it is for a reason and they like that reason, they will back you and if you have the backing of certain groups, it can only help within the community.

 

You normally provide a video explaining who you are and what you are looking to do, show them your music even if it is raw and not finished, as that is one of the things you need the capital for, explain you have ideas for the band, but start-up costs a lot of money. But most of all, tell them what they will get in return.

 

Good luck.

[Rudi]

I wish you good luck, but I just wouldn't do what you're suggesting.

[john]

I would look to Patreon. It is a good deal more interactive than other crowd funding platforms with better tools, making it easier for you to earn as you go as well as set larger targets.

[Vara La Fey]

Thx, guys.

 

Richard, I'll think more tangibly about what a band really can give in return. I know that generalities won't cut it.

 

Rudi, why wouldn't you do it?

 

John, I bookmarked Patreon, and will check it out. Right now it looks like one needs sellable-quality production there. I can't afford it, hence wondering about crowd-funding.  :-(

[john]

Not at all... assuming you can do something on video, streaming etc. The point is you raise funding to do a proper album by giving people what they want, your music, interviews, photo shoots etc. It is a combination of crowdfunding and fan base building.

[john]

As an example, here is the Patreon page of a fellow Songstuffer raising money for her 4th album, Lauren O'Connell:

 

https://www.patreon.com/laurenoconnell

[Vara La Fey]

John, thx!! I will check her page extensively tonight.

 

I actually have an old friend who is a big-time sound engineer, and is hanging his shingle again and offering a free-upfront recording deal for points later. Can't beat it. But I wouldn't go to him with this until I really have something worthwhile. Right now we chat about computer problems and such.

 

[Steve]

I have supported artists with crowd funding in the past and I would offer this piece of advice.

 

 

Have something that funders will want to hear! Just being a 'Trans Band' isn't enough for me to support you. (Even though I do  have a lovely couple of friends who are  tranny)  You need to convince me that what you are offering is genuine talent.  A product that I would be willing to buy whether you are Gay, Straight, Bi, Trans, or whatever.  If you want to sell your product, (in this case, Music) Produce good music! That will get you some backing! (With a lot of hard work on your part promoting what you have to offer!)

 

Good luck!

[Just1L]

I've thought about it many times and looked into it but I've never went any further. I do agree with both you and Steve above. The time is right yes, but just being "trans" may not be enough. It reminds me of that heavy metal band Anvil they made the movie out of. They started something but were left in the dust by those that jumped aboard because those that did, had better music. Now, I'm not saying your music isn't "up to snuff" so to speak as I don't know. Just something to consider when working on material. Good luck with it.

[Vara La Fey]

Thx guys!!

 

Steve and Just1L - I know that trans isn't enough, but IF I offer good music and such, I do think a lot of people would appreciate the uniqueness, and the LGBT community will be very likely to support it. Yes, IF the music and all that stuff is good. And getting feedback on that is why I'm on these critique sites in the first place. If you're curious, see my submissions "Incoming" and "Radio Free World" in Song Crit. And give it to me, both barrels. I can take it.

 

HoboSage - Yeah, I'm "around the corner from 50". Where's the reality check in that? Do crowd-funders not like to fund middle-agers?

[john]

I don't like standard crowdfunding sites for much that reason. Patreon is targeted at artists, writers, musicians etc. The idea is not  to ask for donations, it is to ask for patronage, something for something. Additionally I would point out a couple of points worth considering:

 

48 is old to be breaking in the pop, or any music scene, though far from impossible. Ask Seasick Steve. Not a huge international star but he has a viable career from it. He isn't alone. That aside, people can make livings from good music... as long as they have a realistic expectation, surely that is the key? Making sure people have a realistic expectation. Take me, I am 50, I plan to release an album. I am under no illusions that fame awaits, indeed I would not welcome you for it. My goal is to make good music and to make enough money from the album, gigs and other income related to my music so that my music pays for itself and enables the next album to be recorded in a better studio, for me to play better venues. That said, were my dream to be on a national stage, releasing music... why not? If my music is good enough and I am innovative enough in my marketing I see no reason why I wouldn't attract an audience big enough for me to make a modest living from it. True, there are uncertainties, but aiming to make enough to live on depends on a lot of hard work, being prepared to fail, a lot, and making contacts that believe in you... amongst other things.

 

Is it likely I could become a top line star? No. Very, very unlikely... even if I was not 50.

 

Yet again I can't rip someone down for wanting to aim that high. I would try and make sure they had the tools to maximise their chances on one hand and the sure fire knowledge that they have a better chance of winning the lottery. Much less chance without said knowledge.

 

it doesn't make me the purveyor of dreams, but I like to think that I am honest from an informed perspective. I don't sugar coat things, but neither am I a defeatist.

 

One other aspect of the teenager abuse of crowdfunding asking for donations... going beyond the something for something perspective.... artists working on decent ethics ask for money upfront, a type of presales. Pay me a reduced up front cost and I will send you a signed CD and a bunch of other stuff, do a Skype gig, even a living room gig, a ton of other stuff... it is work, just like any other.

 

Songstuff accepts donations, but believe me, it isn't money for nothing. Far, far from it. We don't use crowdfunding as such. Will people judge Songstuff because of it? Some yes. But we were taken for granted by many for a long time despite being free, despite never pushing for a donation until very recently.

 

You are of course right Jenn, some people do abuse the system, some do want something for nothing, some do take the money and run, but I hope people can tell the difference, people can judge what is worthy.

 

I remember years ago someone selling a used polythene bag on eBay. It sold. It was pathetic. Many were convinced the end of the world was nigh, or at least the end of eBay was foretold. Yet eBay is alive and well and being used by many buyers and sellers.

 

So in one way you are right, people will stop funding lazy people, but if you work hard, are seen to work hard and more than earn your donations through graft and delivering value, then just like Songstuff, people will want to support you.

[john]

1 hour ago, Jenn said:

@john yes this is what I was trying to say but you put it much more eloquently

 

I try, I try

[Peggy]

Everything I have to say is just my perception. Fits only for me, so have been hesitant to reply.

 

I don't want to give the impression I have had no help.

 

I've been given incredible breaks in my life. I have tried to keep that in front of me (I fail sometimes). Many of these breaks were from musical endeavors. I have tried to repay (I fail sometimes)

 

But Crowd-funding, to me, is stepping outside of the personal (or if personal, is for a personal tragic situations where there are no other options). So it should be used for the same. Outside the personal.

 

So, I don't see my ideas and aspirations, and I dream big, going the crowd-funding direction.

 

[Rudi]

6 hours ago, Jenn said:

It doesn't matter what race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, species, etc., you are... if you have to beg peeps for money, then this isn't for you lol. If you've got something, people will come and be willing to pay for it on their own accord. 

 

You bet. That's right on the money Jenn.

[Vara La Fey]

Thanks for all the responses!! I'm mostly gonna watch you guys hammer it out, as you're generally more up to speed on this than I am. But a couple things do cross my mind....

 

The problem of begging money for luxuries may be self-solving: most donors wouldn't donate to that anyway. Whether a high nose : signal ratio has caused a mass exodus from those sites is another thing I have no idea about.

 

As to personal causes, I doubt it matters whether it's personal to the beggar, but whether it's personal to the donor in some way. That's just human nature, it's how charity works, and it's how business works.

 

On age: RAMMS+EIN were all mid-30s to early 40s when they started out. Plus middle-agers today do buy new music. Being middle-aged still won't help, but it does offer a peer-audience which is more affluent than teens. Age as a sole (or even a major) viability criterion is the old-school obsolete big-label teens-only rip-off-the-naive-kids biz. It's not so much that biz anymore.

 

On that "note", wouldn't it be great if Patreon and SellABand, et al, became the replacement for those old talent scouts and development deals from the big labels? (Just as iTunes et al have become distro sites.) It seems they'd be "art for the people, chosen by the people". No middlemen. No bean-counters.

 

[Vara La Fey]

Jenn and Rudi - Amanda Palmer needed 100k to finish one of her albums. Through Kickstarter, she begged peeps for money and raised 1.2m, iirc. And seems to be doing well since then. So your view isn't always correct.

[Vara La Fey]

TBH, I didn't realize it was your opinion, because you stated it like it was a fact.

 

[Sreyashi Mukherjee]

I guess the same fundamentals apply anywhere - not just in music. Have talent, know it, hone it, then show it. If these things are in place, crowd funding can be a very powerful tool. People see your worth and support you - just like John said about Songstuff

 

Also, stories of "late-bloomers" aren't totally unknown either, in a world where ultimately everything is a measure of relativity

[Richard Tracey]

7 hours ago, Jenn said:

@john yes this is what I was trying to say but you put it much more eloquently

And longer !!!! 

 

I aged reading that