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Inside Your Game - Please help me to make sure it;'s OK before I record it!

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Max spb    10

Hello colleagues! You helped me before to pinpoint problems in my previous versions of the lyrics. After 6 revisions I think it is pretty close to the finish.
I wanted to do a very last check before recording it. Please let me know what you think of it. Any help or comments or suggestions will be much appreciated!

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*** Inside Your Game ***

 

1st Verse:
Call me, just call me, tell me what you're up to
I'm so tired, tired of doing time, with no sign to hear you

2nd Verse:
Play me, you can play me, re-frame me inside your game
Stay with me, stay and lie to me, I'll never be the same 


1st Chorus:

I try again... to get to you when we're starting to play yeah we're starting to play
And though there was no one who won in this game I'm still gonna play the same 
I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay
Want them to break free and get out, I don't care while you're still around 


3rd Verse:

Longer, days get longer, I'm longing to catch sight of you
It's stronger, gets much stronger, and wronger and past due


Bridge:

Out of my mind! Truth or lie? I have no clue.
Are you on my side or am I left behind? It's so uncertain. I can't get close to you 

 

2nd Chorus:

I try again... to get to you when we're starting to play yeah we're starting to play
I know there was no one who won in this game I'm still gonna play the same 
I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay
Hoping to get to the firm ground.  Lost or found?
 

Ending:   
Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?
Or should it turn around and we'll be heading to another round
Forever seasons changing one another and I'm sure that day will come
The day when I hear steps behind my door
 

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Patty Lakamp    41

Hi, Max,

 

Some comments on your lyrics:  I'm being very picky, so please take this in the right spirit.

 

V1L2: I'm so tired, tired of doing time, with no sign to hear you

 

This line would be clearer.  "tired of doing time" suggests to me that you're in prison?  If that's not what you mean, then maybe "wasting time" or "spending time"  or "waiting" would be more what you mean. Something along that line.  If you mean you're in prison, then that works, and we're onto the next part of the line:

 

 "with no sign to hear you" doesn't mean anything to me.  Do you mean "no sign from you?" "I haven't heard from you?"  I just don't get the "with no sign to hear you." (See?  I told you I was being picky.)

 

2nd verse:

Not sure what "inside your game" is. Do you mean her perspective?  Her world view? "Game" has a rather negative connotation to me in that it suggests the relationship isn't authentic...it's make-believe.  Is that what you mean?  She's playing with you, not taking you seriously?

 

And what about "I'll never be the same"?

Do you mean if she stays, you'll be glad, and it will transform you and you won't be the same as you were before?  Or what?  It feels a little like you're just throwing in a word to rhyme for "game," rather than really trying to communicate something.

 

3rd verse:

"wronger"?  Ouch!

 

Last line:  That day when I hear steps behind my door.  Again, a nitpick.  I think of BEHIND the door, as the person on the inside of the house, and a person AT the door is the one outside.  So it didn't sound quite right to "hear steps behind my door."

 

 

 

If this is too detailed a critique, I apologize.  I just think  the best lyrics are those that really communicate a feeling/thought, and each word really matters.  I hope that's what you meant, too.

 

 

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MikeRobinson    146

("Takin' a big chance here now ..." Please hear me ... hear me out ...)

 

To me, your present lyric "has a whole bunch of couplets, all of them scrupulously or not-so-scrupulously rhymed," ...

 

... "from one(!) person's point of view."  (Basically, so far, "the 'hungry fisherman,' casting again and again and again into the same fish-free pool. Yawn... guess that means chicken for dinner tonight.)

 

No story there!

 

"Please: 'tell me a story.'"  Create tension.  Create stakes.  At least present both sides of your chosen conflict, thus creating "story-tension" between "his" view and "hers."

Edited by MikeRobinson
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Max spb    10

To  Patty Lakamp and Mike Robinson 

Thank you both for giving me your honest feedback. Patty you were more detailed and explanatory and Mike was just straightforward in telling me this is not good.


I really appreciate your critique! Will work on it.




 



 

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Max spb    10
On 5/15/2017 at 2:19 PM, Patty Lakamp said:

Hi, Max,

 

Some comments on your lyrics:  I'm being very picky, so please take this in the right spirit.

 

V1L2: I'm so tired, tired of doing time, with no sign to hear you

 

This line would be clearer.  "tired of doing time" suggests to me that you're in prison?  If that's not what you mean, then maybe "wasting time" or "spending time"  or "waiting" would be more what you mean. Something along that line.  If you mean you're in prison, then that works, and we're onto the next part of the line:

 

 "with no sign to hear you" doesn't mean anything to me.  Do you mean "no sign from you?" "I haven't heard from you?"  I just don't get the "with no sign to hear you." (See?  I told you I was being picky.)

 

2nd verse:

Not sure what "inside your game" is. Do you mean her perspective?  Her world view? "Game" has a rather negative connotation to me in that it suggests the relationship isn't authentic...it's make-believe.  Is that what you mean?  She's playing with you, not taking you seriously?

 

And what about "I'll never be the same"?

Do you mean if she stays, you'll be glad, and it will transform you and you won't be the same as you were before?  Or what?  It feels a little like you're just throwing in a word to rhyme for "game," rather than really trying to communicate something.

 

3rd verse:

"wronger"?  Ouch!

 

Last line:  That day when I hear steps behind my door.  Again, a nitpick.  I think of BEHIND the door, as the person on the inside of the house, and a person AT the door is the one outside.  So it didn't sound quite right to "hear steps behind my door."

 

 

 

If this is too detailed a critique, I apologize.  I just think  the best lyrics are those that really communicate a feeling/thought, and each word really matters.  I hope that's what you meant, too.

 

 

Hello Patty,
I wanted to thank you one more time for your review - you were more than helpful!!! I fixed the parts that you kindly detected as bad ones. English is my 2nd language that is why some thing that I translate from my native language to English do not make any sense to you.

This is a story about someone that agrees to be a part of a girl's gaming just for a chance to be with her. It's a very common Neurotic Romantic Attraction. As I know many many people experience that kind of relationship...

I fixed the parts that you pinpointed except for those that I strongly want to keep. "Wronger" - I know it is a made word but I really love it. I want to keep it! "Doing time" - John Lennon and some other songwriters I admire use that construction as "waiting for something" as if they were in jail. I intentionally used it, but replaced it with watching time - please see if that works better.  Please let me know what you think of this edit:
=======================================
 

*** Inside Your Game ***

 

Call me, just call me, tell me what you're up to

I'm so tired, tired of watching time, with no sign from you

Play me, you can play me, reframe me inside your game

Lie to me, lie but stay with me, I'll never complain

 

I try again... to get to you when you starting to play, you're starting to play

And though there was no one who won in this game I'm still gonna play the same

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay

Want them to break free and get out, I don't care while you're still around

 

Longer, days get longer, I'm longing to catch sight of you

It's stronger, gets much stronger, and wronger and past due

 

Out of my mind! Truth or lie? I have no clue.

Are you on my side or am I left behind? It's so uncertain. I can't get close to you

 

I try again... to get to you when you starting to play, you're starting to play

I know there was no one who won in this game I'm still gonna play the same

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay

Hoping to get to the firm ground.  Lost or found?

    

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or should it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever seasons changing one another and I'm sure that day will come

The day when I hear footsteps at my door

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Patty Lakamp    41

Max,

 

Much, much better!  In fact, it's pretty amazing that you can write lyrics in a language that isn't your native language.  I'm impressed.  I couldn't do it! There are so many ways to get tripped up, and I admire you for your efforts.

 

Perhaps you can take another look at this verse:

 

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or should it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever seasons changing one another and I'm sure that day will come

The day when I hear footsteps at my door

 

1st line:  OK

2nd line: mixed up tenses.  Would this work: 

Or will it turn around and we'll be heading to another round?

3rd line:  forever seasons changing one another ...

do you mean seasons are forever changing?  seasons change but they don't change one another.  OR, do you mean the seasons are forever changing you and the girl? ("One another"). It isn't clear to me.

4th line: Yes! that's how you say it!

 

 

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Max spb    10
43 minutes ago, Patty Lakamp said:

Max,

 

Much, much better!  In fact, it's pretty amazing that you can write lyrics in a language that isn't your native language.  I'm impressed.  I couldn't do it! There are so many ways to get tripped up, and I admire you for your efforts.

 

Perhaps you can take another look at this verse:

 

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or should it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever seasons changing one another and I'm sure that day will come

The day when I hear footsteps at my door

 

1st line:  OK

2nd line: mixed up tenses.  Would this work: 

Or will it turn around and we'll be heading to another round?

3rd line:  forever seasons changing one another ...

do you mean seasons are forever changing?  seasons change but they don't change one another.  OR, do you mean the seasons are forever changing you and the girl? ("One another"). It isn't clear to me.

4th line: Yes! that's how you say it!

 

 

Patty,
Thanks a lot for the kind words. Unfortunately it is very hard to write properly as I started learning English when I was way too old for knowing the usage of the things like articles, prepositions or tenses by heart. I can sit in front of a sentence and try to figure out for very long time on what article to use and if I should use it at all. Then I ask someone who grew up in an English spoken country and they do not hesitate a second to come up with a proper word. :)))

The correction on the 2nd line works just fine. As of the 3rd line -  "seasons are forever changing" is (as I understand) the proper way to say what I wanted to say. I will need to think now on how to redo the ending block properly.

Thank you again for your help! You are great! )))

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Max spb    10
20 hours ago, Patty Lakamp said:

Max,

 

Much, much better!  In fact, it's pretty amazing that you can write lyrics in a language that isn't your native language.  I'm impressed.  I couldn't do it! There are so many ways to get tripped up, and I admire you for your efforts.

 

Perhaps you can take another look at this verse:

 

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or should it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever seasons changing one another and I'm sure that day will come

The day when I hear footsteps at my door

 

1st line:  OK

2nd line: mixed up tenses.  Would this work: 

Or will it turn around and we'll be heading to another round?

3rd line:  forever seasons changing one another ...

do you mean seasons are forever changing?  seasons change but they don't change one another.  OR, do you mean the seasons are forever changing you and the girl? ("One another"). It isn't clear to me.

4th line: Yes! that's how you say it!

 

 

Hello Patty,
I created the following that I could sing with my melody:
 

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or will it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever  seasons are changing and I know it

I know that a day will come, the day when I hear footsteps at my door

Also, I just realized why I used "Or should it turn around" in the 2nd line. I have three "wills" in 2 sentences! Do you think I can use "shall" instead of should? I know shall is more of a British English. May be I can use some other word there? What do you think?

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Patty Lakamp    41

Max, 

 

I think in this example, "will"  is the right word in both lines.

 

See what other people say, but that would be my suggestion.

 

Good luck.

 

Patty

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Max spb    10
1 hour ago, Patty Lakamp said:

 

1 hour ago, Patty Lakamp said:

 

1 hour ago, Patty Lakamp said:

 

23 hours ago, Patty Lakamp said:
1 hour ago, Patty Lakamp said:

Max, 

 

I think in this example, "will"  is the right word in both lines.

 

See what other people say, but that would be my suggestion.

 

Good luck.

 

Patty

Patty thank you very much for your help. You did approve the 3rd line correction so I can now record it, OK?

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Patty Lakamp    41

 Max,

 

I'm happy to help if I can.  Remember, though--it's YOUR song, so you are the one that approves everything in it.  You have to decide when your song is ready to record or not; nobody else can do that for you. I say, if you like it, go ahead.  If you're not sure, wait until you are.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Patty

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Max spb    10

Patty, I just wanted to make sure that the 3rd line is correct now. But if you say it is OK. I am fine with it too. )

 

Thanks again for helping me fixing the wrong grammar and for wishing me good luck!!! I am not a big expert obviously but if I can be  helpful in a way in reading any of your lyrics let me know I'll do my best and provide my honest ESL person opinion! )

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Max spb    10
On 5/18/2017 at 11:00 PM, Patty Lakamp said:

 Max,

 

I'm happy to help if I can.  Remember, though--it's YOUR song, so you are the one that approves everything in it.  You have to decide when your song is ready to record or not; nobody else can do that for you. I say, if you like it, go ahead.  If you're not sure, wait until you are.

 

Good luck to you.

 

Patty

Hello Patty!
Sorry to bother - I am still not happy about last 4 lines. I wanted to ask you if that is OK to say "Forever seasons change" instead of your suggested "Forever  seasons are changing"? Grammatically it sounds OK to me but I have no feel of the language and am afraid it is not correct. Could you help?

 

Edited by Max spb

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Patty Lakamp    41

Hi, Max,

 

It's no bother.  We're all here to help each other. 

 

Read my earlier post again.  

On 5/17/2017 at 7:46 PM, Patty Lakamp said:

3rd line:  forever seasons changing one another ...

do you mean seasons are forever changing?  seasons change but they don't change one another.  OR, do you mean the seasons are forever changing you and the girl? ("One another"). It isn't clear to me.

 

I didn't suggest "Forever seasons are changing".  

 

On 5/18/2017 at 4:39 PM, Max spb said:

Are lonely nights here to stay? Will I be lost in this game?

Or will it turn around and we'll be heading to another round

Forever  seasons are changing and I know it

I know that a day will come, the day when I hear footsteps at my door

Are these the last 4 lines you're not happy with?  If so, are you saying you would prefer the 3rd line to be: Forever seasons change....?

 

Now, I'm wondering if the "and I know it" in L3 refers to your knowing that seasons change or is it a prelude to "I know that a day will come"  in L4.

If it's the 2nd, then I'd suggest you drop the "it" in L3

Without the melody to go by, I can't really say what is the best choice of words, but you could try this:

 

Seasons are forever changing, and I know

I know that a day will come....the day when I hear footsteps at my door.

 

I hope this helps.

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Max spb    10
1 hour ago, Patty Lakamp said:

Hi, Max,

 

It's no bother.  We're all here to help each other. 

 

Read my earlier post again.  

I didn't suggest "Forever seasons are changing".  

 

Are these the last 4 lines you're not happy with?  If so, are you saying you would prefer the 3rd line to be: Forever seasons change....?

 

Now, I'm wondering if the "and I know it" in L3 refers to your knowing that seasons change or is it a prelude to "I know that a day will come"  in L4.

If it's the 2nd, then I'd suggest you drop the "it" in L3

Without the melody to go by, I can't really say what is the best choice of words, but you could try this:

 

Seasons are forever changing, and I know

I know that a day will come....the day when I hear footsteps at my door.

 

I hope this helps.

Patty thank you for helping! A few of my friends (also ESL) told me that the whole idea of that ending is wrong. I re-written it and changed everything except for the beginning of the 3rd line as the melody needs it. The way I re-written it this time goes like this:
 

Call me, I want you to call, tell me the things I need to know

I'm tired of being tired, I'm tired of sitting here and watching time

Forever seasons change but never say never
I don't want to know the score, I wanna be inside your game forevermore


I can send you the ending the way I sing it if you want to hear how it goes with the melody - I just realized I can attach files here (not sure if I can send it a a personal attachment). Hope you could help me to clear that thing.

BTW. Talking about 
"Forever seasons are changing".  I thought putting "forever" in front will not change the construction you offered - "Seasons are forever changing". Or it does change it??? So confusing!
 

Edited by Max spb

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Max spb    10

Also the confusing part for me:
 

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay
Want them to break free and get out, I don't care while you're still around

 

Can I instead say :
 

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay

Want them to set free and get out, I don't care while you're still around

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Patty Lakamp    41

English is a tough language, especially if it's not your first language. I really admire you for learning it (the hard way!) 

 

Yes, there is a difference when "forever" is placed at the beginning of that phrase.  I guess, technically, the meaning doesn't change, but it's awkward because it's not the usual way people talk.

I noticed you changed the other lines in that verse quite a bit, and I like them.  Do you need the line 3 to talk about seasons at all?  I could be wrong, but I don't see a reference to seasons anywhere else in the song. Maybe you could use line 3 to say something more in keeping with your new lines 1 and 2.

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Patty Lakamp    41

English again!  The way you're  using this phrase,"break free" is the correct choice. You can want something to BE set free, but you wouldn't say you want something "to set free."

9 minutes ago, Max spb said:

Also the confusing part for me:
 

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay
Want them to break free and get out, I don't care while you're still around

 

Can I instead say :
 

I try again... thoughts are flying away with no sign of regret with no reason to stay

Want them to set free and get out, I don't care while you're still around

 

 

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Max spb    10

Patty, does the first version sound OK to you? It's just that the "thoughts are already flying away" assuming they already broke free. Didn't they? :)))

Edited by Max spb

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Max spb    10

I wanted therefore replace "break" with something that is more relevant to the status of the "thoughts" that are already flying away!

 

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Max spb    10

Talking about the 3rd line.

 

I want to keep word "Forever" in there for singing purposes.

The seasons reference is to say that you cannot stop something that is made by the Nature.

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MikeRobinson    146

I never wanted to suggest that the lyric "was no good."  Songs, like any story, don't really just pop up out of nowhere.  They have to be made.

 

Looking at the May 17th version, I'd now like to suggest that in general the verses aren't all really pulling their weight.  For instance, what if you cut out :ph34r:verse #2 altogether?  And also the next-to-last one.  When two verses are side-by-side, both with the same rhyming structure and basically the same content, decide which one of them is stronger and: "kill the spare."

 

In the spaces left behind, consider writing a contrasting verse.  A different pacing ("prosody").  Telling a different character's point of view (whether or not that different character becomes the narrator.)  Or, revealing something about the song's "back story," i.e. how the character(s) got to be where they are.  And also, a suggestion of where they are going.  (Your existing very-last-line is presently the only one that suggests a clear goal.)

 

When I listen to a story of any kind, I need to be able to build up in my mind an image of the characters, what interesting thing is driving them right now, at least a suggestion of how they got to be there, and where they are going to go.  Show me the conflict, not just one character's reactions to it while he's holding the story inside where I can't see it.

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Max spb    10
6 hours ago, MikeRobinson said:

I never wanted to suggest that the lyric "was no good."  Songs, like any story, don't really just pop up out of nowhere.  They have to be made.

 

Looking at the May 17th version, I'd now like to suggest that in general the verses aren't all really pulling their weight.  For instance, what if you cut out :ph34r:verse #2 altogether?  And also the next-to-last one.  When two verses are side-by-side, both with the same rhyming structure and basically the same content, decide which one of them is stronger and: "kill the spare."

 

In the spaces left behind, consider writing a contrasting verse.  A different pacing ("prosody").  Telling a different character's point of view (whether or not that different character becomes the narrator.)  Or, revealing something about the song's "back story," i.e. how the character(s) got to be where they are.  And also, a suggestion of where they are going.  (Your existing very-last-line is presently the only one that suggests a clear goal.)

 

When I listen to a story of any kind, I need to be able to build up in my mind an image of the characters, what interesting thing is driving them right now, at least a suggestion of how they got to be there, and where they are going to go.  Show me the conflict, not just one character's reactions to it while he's holding the story inside where I can't see it.

Mike, Thanks a lot for writing here again!
I am struggling to use proper English constructions at the moment. It is my 5th lyric in English. It's like you would try to suggest someone to run gracefully when they did not learn to walk yet. I do understand your suggestions and really appreciate them and I did try to rewrite it creating more conflict however when it comes to finding a proper rhyme I have to "keep the spare" because cannot find any proper rhyme other than saying the same thing again. Some people can get away with no using rhymes at all (In my language they call it "white verse") but I just cannot break that feel that it sounds awkward. Patty helped me a lot with showing me which sentences or words constructions are wrong or would change their meaning just because you switch 2 words around in a sentence. In my native language you can move any word in a sentence in any order without any problem. 

If you would help me first to find a proper word construction it would be more helpful to learn good ways of using English to achieve better results in the future. :)

BTW. Thanks a lot for giving me some words that do not exist in my vocabulary. I will read about "prosody" and see how it can help me.

Also, Mike, setting aside the quality topic. Could you tell me if my last 4 lines are fine from proper English point of view? 
 

Call me, I want you to call, tell me the things I need to know

I'm tired of being tired, I'm tired of sitting here and watching time

Forever seasons change but never say never
I don't want to know the score, I wanna be inside your game forevermore

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