• Announcements

    • Songstuff

      New Chat App   06/02/2017

      We have a new chat app available. You will need to sign up for it. You can pick up the invite link at the top of your member hub page:   http://forums.songstuff.com/member/hub/   Remember to use your Songstuff registered email and user name when you sign up! Using the invite link will automatically add you to the Songstuff chat channel.
Richard Tracey

Heroes (UPDATED - v2 11/06/2017)

20 posts in this topic

Hi all - I decided to give this one another go today after having a conversation with @john (who helped identify the problem with the chorus seeming off). I have had another shot at the mix and a new vocal (not the finished vocal - still a temp).

 

Looking for any feedback on this slightly changed version. - I have removed all other details from my original post to keep it tidy.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

https://soundcloud.com/moodman-1/heroes-v2-11062017-2213/s-ptbu4

 

 

HEROES (music and lyrics by Richard Tracey)

 

Verse

Hey, don't you worry

Your cries are being heard

There's no reason to be alone

You don't need to be scared

 

We are one of many

Different guises but all the same

If you need us we'll be there

All you need is to call our name

 

All you need is to call our name

And we'll be there

 

Chorus

And we can be the heroes that you need

We can lift you up till you succeed 

And we can be the heroes that you seek

We can be the voice to let you speak

 

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

 

Verse

Hey, you don't need to fight

There's no reason for you to run

With us there by your side

We'll be a match for anyone

 

We'll be a match for anyone

With us by your side

 

Chorus

And we can be the heroes to protect

We can be the shield against neglect

And we can be the heroes to secure

We can be the strength so you'll endure

 

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

 

Bridge

Don't be afraid

They can't hurt you now

You are under our protection

And we won't break our vow

 

Chorus

And we can be the heroes that you need

We can lift you up till you succeed 

And we can be the heroes that you seek

We can be the voice to let you speak

 

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

 

And we can be the heroes to protect

We can be the shield against neglect

And we can be the heroes to secure

We can be the strength so you'll endure

 

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

We can be the heroes

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The deep synth you have in the beginning could go another octave down.. make it really dark.. maybe even add another rounder synth too

then at 0:15 i would add a rimshot or something every 4 measures or something with lots of reverb so it breaks it up

really good placement/sound of the synth at 3:45

Awkward transition at 0:50 but i understand what you were going for... maybe if you give a measure of rest break of everything and come in with a really strong chorus

i actually really like the chorus and i think it would sound especially good with that deep synth i was talking about.

At the end with the "we can be the heroes", try coming in an eighth note early on them to offer some variation.. try differing the lengths... just kind of improv and see what comes out i would say

i think you have some really good ideas in this one... give a listen to "Take The World" by She Wants Revenge.. that's the feeling I got from it

really excited to see how this goes :)

Edited by Jenn
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jenn said:

The deep synth you have in the beginning could go another octave down.. make it really dark.. maybe even add another rounder synth too

then at 0:15 i would add a rimshot or something every 4 measures or something with lots of reverb so it breaks it up

really good placement/sound of the synth at 3:45

Awkward transition at 0:50 but i understand what you were going for... maybe if you give a measure of rest break of everything and come in with a really strong chorus

i actually really like the chorus and i think it would sound especially good with that deep synth i was talking about.

At the end with the "we can be the heroes", try coming in an eighth note early on them to offer some variation.. try differing the lengths... just kind of improv and see what comes out i would say

i think you have some really good ideas in this one... give a listen to "Take The World" by She Wants Revenge.. that's the feeling I got from it

really excited to see how this goes :)

 

Cheers Jenn - this one kind of took on a life of its own, so will need a bit of tweaking. I tried having space between the sections, but it didn't sound right, but my ears were tired, so will give it another shot, might just need to find a nice transition.

 

I thought the synth at the beginning was dark enough. It was an octave down when I originally played it, but it sounded too dark. I'll have another go and see what I think with fresh ears.

 

the chorus part is quite quiet on this recording and sounded fuller on my headphones when I was doing everything, so will need to adjust the levels. It should be big and in your face. I couldn't sing it too loud, as it was late when I recorded the vocals, so will give it another shot today at some point. I am going to add extra layers of vocals on the chorus.

 

I have She Wants Revenge's first album and it's superb. Lovely dark synths and sounds, but wasn't to impressed with their output after that, it sounded weak in comparison. I'll give this one a listen and see.

 

Thanks for your input, it's always nice to hear what others hear from a song.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That song is quite good! I really like the synths and the singing! But in my opinion, the drums are way too far in the background. In the chorus, especially the snare would sound really good with some reverb on it and the kick could get louder (maybe even some reverb too). I don't know how to explain it right but, with the reverb on the drums it would get bigger in total. ( i hope you get what i mean :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bringer of eternal Space said:

That song is quite good! I really like the synths and the singing! But in my opinion, the drums are way too far in the background. In the chorus, especially the snare would sound really good with some reverb on it and the kick could get louder (maybe even some reverb too). I don't know how to explain it right but, with the reverb on the drums it would get bigger in total. ( i hope you get what i mean :)

 

Cheers Bringer, the drums are too far back and sounded louder on my recording headphones. The kick and snare have a reverb plugin on them, but you won't hear the effect while it is sitting so far back. The whole chorus part is meant to be louder. I don't know what happened when I sent it to iTunes to post.

 

Ill fix up some parts and post later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

don't know a thing about  production so don't often comment in the song section . drums to soft  synth to loud to much to little verb ? no idea

 but know when I hear something I like to listen to and this is one of those 

 

john

Edited by scotsman89
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, scotsman89 said:

don't know a thing about  production so don't often comment in the song section . drums to soft  synth to loud to much to little verb ? no idea

 but know when I hear something I like to listen to and this is one of those 

 

john

 

Thanks John, your comment is very much appreciated. I know you don't tend to post in this section, so I feel very grateful you felt the need to comment on this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Richard. I like your song.

 

My initial impression, and the one obvious thing that sticks out to me, is that the chorus doesn't have as much impact and energy as it could have. It's mainly to do with the production; you have a good chorus there, which in my opinion has the potential to be quite catchy. It's just that it currently doesn't stand out enough from the verse. There's several things you could try to lift the chorus up:

  • Bring the drums up more. Have a walking basic rhythm with a snare that has some body to it.
  • Add a backing vocal that sings roughly a 4th (interval) above the main melody line.
  • Add some more colour to it. Perhaps a pad in the background. Or even a chugging guitar melody line in roughly the same octave as the current vocal melody. This chugging sound would play the role of the hi-hat, and would make the chorus 'walk' more.
  • And one other trick: Increase the volume of the chorus by 1-2 dB, compared to the verse. It's extremely effective in lifting the chorus up, in my experience. I use master volume automation a lot, and the added dynamics are subtle but effective.

Hope this helps.

 

PS:Hope the weather up there is as nice as it is down here at the moment ;) 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Will Sketches said:

Hi Richard. I like your song.

 

My initial impression, and the one obvious thing that sticks out to me, is that the chorus doesn't have as much impact and energy as it could have. It's mainly to do with the production; you have a good chorus there, which in my opinion has the potential to be quite catchy. It's just that it currently doesn't stand out enough from the verse. There's several things you could try to lift the chorus up:

  • Bring the drums up more. Have a walking basic rhythm with a snare that has some body to it.
  • Add a backing vocal that sings roughly a 4th (interval) above the main melody line.
  • Add some more colour to it. Perhaps a pad in the background. Or even a chugging guitar melody line in roughly the same octave as the current vocal melody. This chugging sound would play the role of the hi-hat, and would make the chorus 'walk' more.
  • And one other trick: Increase the volume of the chorus by 1-2 dB, compared to the verse. It's extremely effective in lifting the chorus up, in my experience. I use master volume automation a lot, and the added dynamics are subtle but effective.

Hope this helps.

 

PS:Hope the weather up there is as nice as it is down here at the moment ;) 

 

 

Cheers Will - yeah the weather is glorious.

 

I think a lot of the power of the chorus has been lost on this, as it sounds louder through Logic with my headphones, but is really quiet on this recording. I am going to try and fix that and post again later.

 

I'll have a look at the chugging guitar, but I don't play, so will need to see if I can manage it on the keyboard.

 

I am going to look at backing vocals when I am fixing the track up, just wanted to get a feel at this early stage if the track feels like it is working.

 

Appreciate the comments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all - I decided to give this another try today - I have posted the new version in the original post and removed all the original details.

 

Let me know what you think - it is still a work in progress at the moment.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Richard

 

A few points for what it is worth...

 

  • Half the intro
  • I would drop "hey" at the beginning of each verse
  • 1st verse, 2nd line, "heard" is wrong note. You nail the verse melody elsewhere. That sticks out like a sore thumb
  • synth melody Is a  smidge too loud for me in prechorus
  • synth melody is too loud for me on chorus
  • like the idea of the chorus synth melody, you get the right notes but over cook it a bit. Not sure it is the right sound, it might well sit better once you take the part volume down a bit.
  • Bridge, not a huge fan of speak singing, it can veer into cheesy too easily
  • Mix, could be me listening on ear buds, probably us, but there was no real bass. Quite a trebly mix
  • on the heroes line towards the end, will need to work on some subtle variations

 

other than that, I thought it hung together much better :)

 

i know now it is a WIP, and you no doubt have pegged some of these to work on, but I didn't want to assume, so I included points for completeness. :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, john said:

Hey Richard

 

A few points for what it is worth...

 

  • Half the intro
  • I would drop "hey" at the beginning of each verse
  • 1st verse, 2nd line, "heard" is wrong note. You nail the verse melody elsewhere. That sticks out like a sore thumb
  • synth melody Is a  smidge too loud for me in prechorus
  • synth melody is too loud for me on chorus
  • like the idea of the chorus synth melody, you get the right notes but over cook it a bit. Not sure it is the right sound, it might well sit better once you take the part volume down a bit.
  • Bridge, not a huge fan of speak singing, it can veer into cheesy too easily
  • Mix, could be me listening on ear buds, probably us, but there was no real bass. Quite a trebly mix
  • on the heroes line towards the end, will need to work on some subtle variations

 

other than that, I thought it hung together much better :)

 

i know now it is a WIP, and you no doubt have pegged some of these to work on, but I didn't want to assume, so I included points for completeness. :)

 

Cheers John,

 

Damn, I liked the intro.....

I'll give it a try without the 'hey', but again it was something I liked. Will see what both versions sound like.

Yeah, 'heard' has screwed up when I adjusted the pitch, will fix that when I give the vocal another shot.

The synth melody is too loud, sounded okay on my studio headphones as well. Will adjust that now I know it's a problem.

I changed the sound from the last one as it was too distorted, but liked this one. I hope lowering the volume will fix the issue.

Ha ha - I improvised that. Not sure of it spoken myself, so will give it a try singing it.

The bass was really loud and I adjusted it till it sounded fine on my headphones, but it does sound quiet on the track. Will adjust it again. I mastered it with bass and mid-range in mind as the synth melody was quite high and wanted to take the edge off it.

Yeah, I'll need to come up with harmony variations.

 

Glad it sounds better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

More suggested lyric tweaks:

 

Besides cutting each "hey,"  I would also cut the "and" starting the first and third lines of the choruses. Additionally, I think "the heroes to protect" should be "the heroes who/that protect," and "the heroes to secure" should be "the heroes who/that secure."  As is, you're saying the heroes are the ones who need protection and saving.  I think the chorus lyric is too wordy and redundant.  I would sing it this way,  having harmonies and holding "heroes" in the second and fourth lines:

 

we can be the heroes

the heroes

we can be the heroes

heroes

 

* I actually think "we will be your heroes" would sound better and be more accurate.  In fact, I think you should "we will"  in each instance you now have "we can."

 

I must say, no matter how different this is thematically, musically and melodically, I don't think you avoid comparison to the iconic Bowie song, and because that song is so iconic and so good, that's not a comparison your song, or any song with a "we can be heroes" kind of hook, could possibly hold up well to.  Despite the genesis inspiring this lyric, I would now write a completely different lyric for this music. :) 

 

P.S.:

Hey, don't you worry 

Your cries are being heard

There's no reason to be You're not alone

You don't need to be scared

Edited by HoboSage
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think this is good. I like the song. I agree with many of the other comments here. The chorus doesn't lift as dynamically as it could... the spoken bit is cheese on toast... and yeah the title/hook might be an issue, but from memory I think you have quite a few named after iconic songs so maybe you enjoy playing with that.

 

Also I think the final word 'heroes' sounds wrong, in some way...just a bit off maybe...but also a bit of an x factor style ending? 

 

About the 'hey'... I think John is right to suggest dropping it, as it stands, but... I think you could either lose that or maybe add to it. I mean if it was a big hey with a load of echo and/or backing heys, maybe it would work as a feature, maybe, whereas the way it is now it sounds a bit weak and unneeded. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have only one thing to say..... "we could be the heroes" has been playing through my head all day......

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, MonoStone said:

I think this is good. I like the song. I agree with many of the other comments here. The chorus doesn't lift as dynamically as it could... the spoken bit is cheese on toast... and yeah the title/hook might be an issue, but from memory I think you have quite a few named after iconic songs so maybe you enjoy playing with that.

 

Also I think the final word 'heroes' sounds wrong, in some way...just a bit off maybe...but also a bit of an x factor style ending? 

 

About the 'hey'... I think John is right to suggest dropping it, as it stands, but... I think you could either lose that or maybe add to it. I mean if it was a big hey with a load of echo and/or backing heys, maybe it would work as a feature, maybe, whereas the way it is now it sounds a bit weak and unneeded. 

 

Cheers Dek - I need to look at the chorus and what could lift it - it might just be harmonies, but will have a look.

 

I think the spoken bit is going to become a sung bit very soon.

 

I don't necessarily set out to write a song with the same title as other popular songs, the idea tends to come from the music a lot of the time and how the music flows. This sounded like it wanted to be a big epic song and the first thing I sang was 'we could be the heroes', as it sounded epic and fitted with the style.

 

The last 'heroes' part doesn't sound very good to be honest. I corrected some pitch issues and created other problems as a result. I like the idea of finishing on that word, but it had more impact before I made the corrections.

 

I will try a version without the 'hey', but in my heart I really want to keep it, but I agree, it is meant to be bigger and echoing into the next word. That is what I imagine, I just haven't worked out how to do that yet. I might give your idea of layering the vocal to see if it gives the desired effect. It is meant to be a statement and that's why I like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Jenn said:

I have only one thing to say..... "we could be the heroes" has been playing through my head all day......

 

Cheers Jenn- that sounds like a helluva compliment. Unless you meant the Bowie version, then I could understand that;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, HoboSage said:

More suggested lyric tweaks:

 

Besides cutting each "hey,"  I would also cut the "and" starting the first and third lines of the choruses. Additionally, I think "the heroes to protect" should be "the heroes who/that protect," and "the heroes to secure" should be "the heroes who/that secure."  As is, you're saying the heroes are the ones who need protection and saving.  I think the chorus lyric is too wordy and redundant.  I would sing it this way,  having harmonies and holding "heroes" in the second and fourth lines:

 

we can be the heroes

the heroes

we can be the heroes

heroes

 

* I actually think "we will be your heroes" would sound better and be more accurate.  In fact, I think you should "we will"  in each instance you now have "we can."

 

I must say, no matter how different this is thematically, musically and melodically, I don't think you avoid comparison to the iconic Bowie song, and because that song is so iconic and so good, that's not a comparison your song, or any song with a "we can be heroes" kind of hook, could possibly hold up well to.  Despite the genesis inspiring this lyric, I would now write a completely different lyric for this music. :) 

 

P.S.:

Hey, don't you worry 

Your cries are being heard

There's no reason to be You're not alone

You don't need to be scared

 

Cheers David- I don't know if I am going to lose the 'hey' part yet. I am going to give it a try without and see what I think. As I mentioned to Dek above, in my head it is a bigger sound, echoing into the next word. It isn't like that at the moment, but I like it as a statement.

 

I never really thought of the 'heroes to protect' being taken as the heroes needing protected, that must be a cultural interpretation thing. I'll give it a try as 'heroes who protect', but not keen on using 'that', as it doesn't seem to have the same flow as 'to' or 'who'.

 

I wanted to keep it as 'we can be the heroes' as it doesn't just relate to the protectors, but the protected as well.

 

I know there will be comparisons with Bowie's song due to that lyric, but given the content is so different, I was hoping my idea could stand on its own.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:

I will try a version without the 'hey', but in my heart I really want to keep it, but I agree, it is meant to be bigger and echoing into the next word. That is what I imagine, I just haven't worked out how to do that yet. I might give your idea of layering the vocal to see if it gives the desired effect. It is meant to be a statement and that's why I like it.

Making it bigger and echoing into the next word should be simple. Just record the 'hey' separately, sing it with more impact, and put it on a separate track with echo on. I mean to replace the current 'hey' rather than in addition, unless you want the echoing hey to be backing.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Making it bigger and echoing into the next word should be simple. Just record the 'hey' separately, sing it with more impact, and put it on a separate track with echo on. I mean to replace the current 'hey' rather than in addition, unless you want the echoing hey to be backing.

 

I think I will give this a try. Probably going to be the weekend now before I get near the studio though, which is a bummer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.