Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hello folks, hope to get your inputs for this one ..

 

When I listen to songs, it is always the melody and voice that attracts me first. I could fall head-over-heels in love with it even if it had very crappy lyrics. When it comes, to singing, though… I notice that if I don’t feel the lyrics, I don’t find the motivation to proceed. I’m not a songwriter but I've been trying to understand this aspect more lately and again feel that if I don’t have words that I identify with (whether mine or someone else’s), I'm again put off from going further. I don’t know how much I'm restricting myself by doing this.

 

I have two questions just to get different perspectives and try broadening my thinking:

1)      When you create original music, which part inspires you initially? The melody or the lyrics? Or something else?

2)      Which are your favourite songs lyrically? (Just wanting to understand different tastes.. maybe get inspired by them, too)

 

Sreyashi/Sumi

Edited by Sreyashi Mukherjee
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Leo    38

Hey Sreyashi,

Good questions.

1. For me it's a melody that comes to mind or arises from playing random stuff on a guitar .

2. Lyrically I like Cat stevens, Joni Mitchell, Simon and Garfunkel, The Band, also Beck and the smith.

 

Personally I would sing what feels right

G'day

Edited by Leo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray888    159

A singer needs to feel the lyric to be able to express it in a believable way so that the listener will believe that the singer has personally experienced the storyline. It's the valid reason why some music or melody doesn't grab your attention. Having stated the above, it is the music which sets the mood and underpins feelings of happiness, sadness, tension, drama, pain, joy, loss, agony, and everything else a person feels. It is the melody which takes us on a rollercoaster journey of rises and falls where expressed words naturally sit. There are many singers out there who have good vocal ranges and perfect pitch but what makes an artist is their tone and their ability to express a story and bring it to life. An example would be that many can read a book but it's a good narrator that makes the story worth listening to.

 

A great song needs to have all the above elements working in conjunction with each other.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HoboSage    1,907

In answering your first question, I think Ray is suggesting that there's a third important element involved in addition to just the primary melody (the notes sung by the lead vocal) and the lyric (the specific words being sung) - there's also the performance/style of the way the specific words are sung with particular musical notes.  I very much agree with Ray, and agree further that these three factors work best in conjunction with each other.  For me, a good lyric for a song of mine is a lyric comprised of words that allow me to engage in some creative wordsmithing, which I can sing using notes of a particular melody and sing those notes in a particular way, that I think all sounds good with the music I'm singing to.   My process is do do all these things together.  But, I typically "start" with the way I want to sing particular notes to the music, before drilling down to find and develop specific words that work with that.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jenn    171

This is something you won't understand until you stop thinking about it. It's something that can't be learned or figured out. When I was first starting, I was crazy obsessed with the presentation of my voice. It needed to be perfect. But as time went on, I realized that it was no where near to perfect. Through a lot of heartache, I realized that I don't have the best tone or the best phrasing or the best intonation.... but besides tone, they're all things I can work on. And I've learned that my tone is what makes songs unique.. it's my music and no one else's. 

My music is a place where I can be myself. Where I can figure things out. Where I can go to if I need help. It's different when you become a writer. Because as much as I "live" inside other songs, there's nothing like living inside one of your own... knowing all the nooks and crannies that you personally created! So for your questions..

1)      When you create original music, which part inspires you initially? The melody or the lyrics? Or something else?

Preferably lyrics.. I'll get this one phrase in my head then write a song based on that. That also gives a certain color to the song that needs to be followed. Then I base the melodic line on how I would say it to myself ... in sort of a journal-out-loud kind of way. If it's a melody, I just let whatever that's in my head come out.. But usually the lyrics are crappier. 

 

2)      Which are your favourite songs lyrically? (Just wanting to understand different tastes.. maybe get inspired by them, too)

Oye this is hard as it changes by the hour depending on what kind of song I need... But if I need ideas for flow/rhyme/good hooks.... Hip-hop/R&B. If I want to dance... Indie or Pop..

 

Edited by Jenn
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rudi    571

It is principally the music. It was many years before I even bothered about listening to lyrics.

 

Once I did, I wrote lyrics 1st, whereas before it was always music 1st. The music is always more important to me though.

So method varies a lot.

 

Lyrics in songs I like would have to include a lot of stuff by Elvis Costello & also Randy Newman.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mahesh    478

Great question Sreyashi!

 

1. This is something that is more like a chicken or the egg situation for me here. When I try to come up with an idea that can eventually turn into a song, I try different things out on the guitar while my mind is searching for the emotion behind the musical context. Words move all across the room like those bats coming out in a batman movie. The music, my imagination and my mind feeding certain words/stories work together to conjure a song idea. And this dance sort of continues for a while before something solid comes out of it. 

 

That whole process inspires me. It's the same dance every single time. I try to restrain my mind from making too many decisions in the initial stage cos it becomes a mess too early on. Working with a simple practice reduces options and helps for it to go in its own flow. 

 

My point is you do not have to look at the melody or the lyrics or whatever it is as a unit. A unit which needs exclusive attention. At least in the initial stage. Look at the process as a whole and let your musical capabilities however simple or skilled do its thing. Give yourself more credit. 

 

In contrast to this (though ironically relevant), I just wrote a small blog post about how you can enhance your music listening habits and I talk about the distinction of lyrics, melody or rhythm and understanding the attraction to it in the context of a song that you like. Thought it would be of interest to add it here.

 

 

 

 

 

2. Lyrically, songwriters immediately come to mind such as John Mayer, Damien Rice, Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen but something that does pop up along with these names might be relevant here. It's a song by Vulfpeck called 1612.

 

 

 

The lyrics border being vague and humorously pointless but it still delivers the lyrical message of the song because of a catchy groove, super tight drums and an incredible singer delivering the catchy melody. You can see how probably even you might want to sing that if you're into such music while not relating to it. Delivery of the words being expressed is helped by the musical context too. Of course, you don't have to sing a song that you lyrically dislike. But if it is just the case of you not relating to it, you can look to the other qualities of the song and get into the zone from there. And that could eventually lead to you relating to the lyric even. Most of the time, it is our mind making these "I can do this" "I can't do this" decisions. There is no reason why you can't create a whole new fictional world when you are singing a song and channel your emotions even if you don't relate to it. We've just got to get there. 

 

Speaking from my own experience. Kill Me is a song I wrote as the point of view of a woman/girl being sexually assaulted. Neither do I relate to it on a personal-life level nor is it a comfortable lyrical context you'd like to be in. But that intrigued me and of course, the internet article that initially inspired me to write the song did make me deeply emotional. And that helped me write and sing the song. Sometimes you've got to find some doorway to channel the lyrics. We'd need the right point of view to take enjoyment in performing any piece of lyric or music. 

 

 

 

Ofcourse, all this ramblin' is simply my point of view. It may not be the best or the only, but it works for me!

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MonoStone    824

This has been on my mind lately...

 

For years I've had the opinion that 'if it sounds good it's good'... but now I'm not sure...

 

Recently I've heard Ian Gillan and Noel Gallagher both say the same (not together) ... but I've thought "Hmmm well that's the weak part of your songs...for my taste"...

 

And yet, I rate Bowie lyrics really highly, even though they rarely make much sense...

 

I find that words which are too clear in meaning don't keep my interest for so long, maybe they date too quickly (especially about events/protests)...

 

I think it's a matter of taste. Whatever turns you on.

 

Answers - 

 

1) this is a subject that's been on here before more than once, and my answer remains the same...it's always the melody before the lyrics (because the lyrics have to fit the melody/phrasing) BUT sometimes some previously written words just happen to fit (usually with a lot of editing) so having words around first is helpful too. If you write lyrics first, and just sing them as they were written, then they tend to sound written rather than felt, unless you're extremely good...not only good in a poetic way but also good at writing in a way that will flow well when sung. I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of talent needed to write words first or alone as a lyricist and end up with it sounding great as a SONG. 

 

2) Lyrical favourites... Quicksand - Bowie, Lover You Should've Come Over - Jeff Buckley, Song For The Angels - Great Lake Swimmers, My Death - Bowie/Brel (some differences I think? I prefer it by Bowie).... it would be a long list.... I think it's a case of poetic words which are perfect for the music, but they probably stand alone lyrically too...maybe as poems. I like lyrics that don't immediately seem obvious, or mislead, or set a scene, and don't take the obvious path. 

 

I imagine a lot of people don't agree with me, but I've said before...the Cocteau Twins proved that it's the music, melody, phrasing and performance that puts the emotion into a song...seeming to be full of meaning and feeling without a word of sense, not even real words... as in -

 

 

So are lyrics really so important... maybe they just need to not spoil a good melody!?

Edited by MonoStone
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richard Tracey    252

The Cocteau Twins define melody as it is so difficult to understand what Liz Fraser is singing, but she has this wonderful way with her voice that you don't care, it just takes you on a journey.

 

For me, really good/interesting lyrics can make and define a song, but as others have pointed out, the music comes first, that is what picks you up and sweeps you along.

 

Sometimes a really poor song musically can become a better song with really strong lyrics, but I struggle to get into or like a song where I don't like the vocal. I can tolerate some songs, but there has to be something special about them.

 

I can write lyrics before starting the music, but I tend to write lyrics by singing them and this gives me the melody and the starter for the music, but as with my latest track, the music came first and dictated where the lyrical and vocal went. I prefer this and find it the more interesting way of writing a song, as you don't know where it is going to take you or how it will direct the narrative or idea.

 

If I start with a lyric, that narrative is already there and I don't find the music comes as easy. This is probably because I am not musically trained, so don't know the notes I am singing, so spend more time trying to work out how it should go.

 

I tend not to write songs this way very much and just sit at the keyboard trying out sounds until I hear something interesting and them an idea comes and before I know it, I have the bare bones of a track. Most of the time I am humming or singing something along to this tinkering and the melody and partial lyric, or full lyric, come very quickly.

 

I think you just have to go with what comes naturally to you. I walk about the house singing new songs all the time, this might help you. If you have a phone with a recording app, press it to record and just sing whatever comes to mind. Do that a few times and you might find some really interesting ideas, or they might spark other ideas.

 

Also like others have said, listen to lots of different styles of music. Listen to the lyrics and pick out the ideas that you find interesting. Keep them in mind and it may help start you off on your own songs. Something else I do, is listen to a song, but sing different lyrics over the top. I try to change the melody from what is there and that would give you a start on an idea.

 

What kind of music do you like?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank so much, all of you, for your inputs.. have much to chew on. Will study the links and artist suggestions in detail. It should really help in getting some inspiration in the lyrics department in terms of how challenging and/or idiosyncratic those themes are.

 

So, what I gather from most of you is that while going for a composition, it makes a little more sense to start with a melody (perhaps it’s the easier thing to do, too?) and take things ahead from there. I tend to agree with Jenn that the lyrics may not always be of a certain desired level if they are written after the melody is laid out. But you all have been making music for years - some with very deep lyrics too - and if it’s mainly coming from the melody route, then I have some ready examples  :)

 

Thanks, Ray and David for pointing out the third important element in song creation. It’s the part that I automatically pay more attention to while singing… another reason why I probably tend to get put off if I don’t feel the lyrics (since I seem to link lyrics and emoting while performing very closely).  But Mahesh, you were right in pointing out, “We'd need the right point of view to take enjoyment in performing any piece of lyric or music”. I’m looking for that clue.. maybe can find them in some of your videos.

 

Richard, I listen to and enjoy many types of music – pop, soft rock, R&B, jazz, country, opera, musicals. When it comes to singing the songs I like, I tend to prefer slow to mid-tempo songs which would typically come in the ballad and some jazz formats. I instinctively hum known songs in different harmonies but don’t change the tune completely. I could try that for practice!

 

Dek, appreciate the very specific song examples.. will hopefully make my search a little easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray888    159
20 hours ago, Jenn said:

This is something you won't understand until you stop thinking about it. It's something that can't be learned or figured out. When I was first starting, I was crazy obsessed with the presentation of my voice. It needed to be perfect. But as time went on, I realized that it was no where near to perfect. Through a lot of heartache, I realized that I don't have the best tone or the best phrasing or the best intonation.... but besides tone, they're all things I can work on. And I've learned that my tone is what makes songs unique.. it's my music and no one else's. 

My music is a place where I can be myself. Where I can figure things out. Where I can go to if I need help. It's different when you become a writer. Because as much as I "live" inside other songs, there's nothing like living inside one of your own... knowing all the nooks and crannies that you personally created! So for your questions..

1)      When you create original music, which part inspires you initially? The melody or the lyrics? Or something else?

Preferably lyrics.. I'll get this one phrase in my head then write a song based on that. That also gives a certain color to the song that needs to be followed. Then I base the melodic line on how I would say it to myself ... in sort of a journal-out-loud kind of way. If it's a melody, I just let whatever that's in my head come out.. But usually the lyrics are crappier. 

 

2)      Which are your favourite songs lyrically? (Just wanting to understand different tastes.. maybe get inspired by them, too)

Oye this is hard as it changes by the hour depending on what kind of song I need... But if I need ideas for flow/rhyme/good hooks.... Hip-hop/R&B. If I want to dance... Indie or Pop..

 

This is a great point because Bob Dylan in my opinion although being a great songwriter was far from having a great voice although he had a unique voice and was able to make his story believable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Ray888 said:

This is a great point because Bob Dylan in my opinion although being a great songwriter was far from having a great voice although he had a unique voice and was able to make his story believable.

Yes, it's a very valid point, indeed. To me he is the kind of an artist who I didn't like initially but started to grow on me over time..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ray888    159
14 hours ago, MonoStone said:

 

So are lyrics really so important... maybe they just need to not spoil a good melody!?

 

I believe that they are important because it is the element which the listener can identify with. You often hear people say "That song brings back memories for me" and although it includes the music arrangement and melody it is the lyric which reminds them of an event in their lives.

 

Having said that, I believe it to also apply to dance music, classical music, or other which takes you on a journey without a lyric.

Edited by Ray888
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MonoStone    824

Back to the original point in the OP...

 

Sreyashi, If you're singing words written by someone else, then you often won't identify with them... 

 

I reckon it's something that many session singers must suffer with... and that's likely why you can often tell that they don't mean or feel the word, I think it's possible to tell when some singers have been given words to sing. I'm not sure what you can do about it. If you get pay or some other reward to sing for a recording session or a performance then I guess you just act the part ... if you're not getting anything out of it then you choose the ones that you do identify with :) If it's a collaboration then you can maybe suggest changes. I can't think how you could make yourself feel good about words which just do nothing for you... but also I think the tune matters a lot, and maybe it's not always just the words that put you off... maybe sometimes the words just don't seem right for the tune, or maybe the phrasing makes it impossible to flow and goes against your instinct...?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MonoStone said:

Back to the original point in the OP...

 

Sreyashi, If you're singing words written by someone else, then you often won't identify with them... 

 

I reckon it's something that many session singers must suffer with... and that's likely why you can often tell that they don't mean or feel the word, I think it's possible to tell when some singers have been given words to sing. I'm not sure what you can do about it. If you get pay or some other reward to sing for a recording session or a performance then I guess you just act the part ... if you're not getting anything out of it then you choose the ones that you do identify with :) If it's a collaboration then you can maybe suggest changes. I can't think how you could make yourself feel good about words which just do nothing for you... but also I think the tune matters a lot, and maybe it's not always just the words that put you off... maybe sometimes the words just don't seem right for the tune, or maybe the phrasing makes it impossible to flow and goes against your instinct...?

 

I was recently taking some vocal training from a professional singer who was visiting the country. In one of our sessions, we got to practice "Somewhere over the rainbow". It's one of my personal favourites (lyrics included) and I was very excited to try it out with her arrangement. But her arrangement for that song was so different from how I'd had it in my system that after a few attempts, it basically killed it for me. Sure, I fit myself into the style... but it felt very mechanical. So, you're right about aspects other than words, which can feel like a downer if it goes against one's instinct. 

I see these reality shows where the wise judges/coaches talk about associating a personal incident with the lyrics of the songs that the contestants are supposed to sing. Mahesh also talks about it here... so maybe there's a key somewhere that I'm yet to discover. But, yes, it feels better to have the liberty to choose. Still, I wouldn't want to feel limited by my choices. That's why I'd asked this question :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jenn    171

Another thing I try to do is to forget the words for the most part, and just attach to the music and the physical feeling of singing. Even if it's not passion for the words, then at least some passion for singing/music comes out... hopefully

Ive tried this because my voice instructor tells me to mean the words.. but when the song is about heartbreak and I haven't had my heart recently broken and I'm too busy stressing about school work, I need some emotion to come out ...

 

so mainly I focus on the joy that singing brings me instead of the words

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MonoStone    824
48 minutes ago, Sreyashi Mukherjee said:

I was recently taking some vocal training from a professional singer who was visiting the country. In one of our sessions, we got to practice "Somewhere over the rainbow". It's one of my personal favourites (lyrics included) and I was very excited to try it out with her arrangement. But her arrangement for that song was so different from how I'd had it in my system that after a few attempts, it basically killed it for me. Sure, I fit myself into the style... but it felt very mechanical. So, you're right about aspects other than words, which can feel like a downer if it goes against one's instinct. 

I see these reality shows where the wise judges/coaches talk about associating a personal incident with the lyrics of the songs that the contestants are supposed to sing. Mahesh also talks about it here... so maybe there's a key somewhere that I'm yet to discover. But, yes, it feels better to have the liberty to choose. Still, I wouldn't want to feel limited by my choices. That's why I'd asked this question :)

You hit the nail on the head with what said about somewhere over the rainbow. It's not your fault, the arrangement is probably crap. Why would they mess with that...? I hate that kind of thing. 

 

Yep just act. And if the song or arrangement is rubbish just hit the notes, do the job and look forward to better songs :)

 

You sing great anyway. Just sing more...  And ditch the crap coaches! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MonoStone    824

P.s. I hate the coaching on talent shows! 

 

If you're singing musical theatre stuff ...show tunes etc...maybe it's useful... But for pop/rock/soul, since you already sing great I think it's about having a unique voice... And coach will likely take away more than they add in that respect. 

 

I know most won't agree...but I'm right...ner ner ner to them! ;)

 

 

Edited by MonoStone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Dek, for your encouragement. I didn't have to ditch her.. she ditched me instead.. maybe I turned out a tad overwhelming as a student ;);)

Lets's see where my lone soldier walk takes me now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Jenn said:

Ive tried this because my voice instructor tells me to mean the words.. but when the song is about heartbreak and I haven't had my heart recently broken and I'm too busy stressing about school work, I need some emotion to come out ...

 

You know, there are just those handful of themes that songs are about - heartbreak, then heartmend, more heartbreak (eek!), a sprinkle of inspiration, a smattering of protest, some satire (current flavour) and a few completely obscure. And to have millions of songs built on them and embraced worldwide... It's awe-inspiring. New found respect :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mahesh    478
19 hours ago, Jenn said:

Another thing I try to do is to forget the words for the most part, and just attach to the music and the physical feeling of singing. Even if it's not passion for the words, then at least some passion for singing/music comes out... hopefully

Ive tried this because my voice instructor tells me to mean the words.. but when the song is about heartbreak and I haven't had my heart recently broken and I'm too busy stressing about school work, I need some emotion to come out ...

 

so mainly I focus on the joy that singing brings me instead of the words


Jenn, 

They say that an artist is an explorer. You don't have to have your heart broken to relate to a heart break song while performing. Like the theatre actor switching to a completely different person in a second and wearing their shoes, you can dive in too. Explore what the heart break for this character could mean, what would you have done if you were in her shoes? Wear her shoes and explore her world. Relating to a song is relative. Relative to what you consider the song as. If you do consider it as a reflection of you and you can't see the song in any other way, then you will let this mind block arise. If you see a song as an entity whose world you're looking to explore, man those emotions come right out. 

Of course, all of this is easier said than done. But it is definitely an approach you should consider when you come across such a block. Approach the song from a different point of view. Tell yourself why you want to mean the songs despite the fact that you don't personally relate to it. Maybe it's because you feel sympathy for the character in the song. Or you've gone in to fantasy land where you ARE the character. Whatever works for you. But it's definitely a useful practice to build expression and versatility to your musical self!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richard Tracey    252
1 hour ago, Sreyashi Mukherjee said:

Thanks, Dek, for your encouragement. I didn't have to ditch her.. she ditched me instead.. maybe I turned out a tad overwhelming as a student ;);)

Lets's see where my lone soldier walk takes me now...

There is a song in there somewhere, see if you can identify which part.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Richard Tracey said:

There is a song in there somewhere, see if you can identify which part.....

Hahaha... The ditching sentence, you mean? Wow.. you're an every second song-writer! :w00t:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richard Tracey    252
3 minutes ago, Sreyashi Mukherjee said:

Hahaha... The ditching sentence, you mean? Wow.. you're an every second song-writer! :w00t:

Nope.... try again:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mahesh said:


Jenn, 

They say that an artist is an explorer. You don't have to have your heart broken to relate to a heart break song while performing. Like the theatre actor switching to a completely different person in a second and wearing their shoes, you can dive in too. Explore what the heart break for this character could mean, what would you have done if you were in her shoes? Wear her shoes and explore her world. Relating to a song is relative. Relative to what you consider the song as. If you do consider it as a reflection of you and you can't see the song in any other way, then you will let this mind block arise. If you see a song as an entity whose world you're looking to explore, man those emotions come right out. 

Of course, all of this is easier said than done. But it is definitely an approach you should consider when you come across such a block. Approach the song from a different point of view. Tell yourself why you want to mean the songs despite the fact that you don't personally relate to it. Maybe it's because you feel sympathy for the character in the song. Or you've gone in to fantasy land where you ARE the character. Whatever works for you. But it's definitely a useful practice to build expression and versatility to your musical self!

There goes coach Mahesh.. master of play acting :D. Sorry @MonoStone, I still find him to have a very valid point..

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mahesh    478

@Sreyashi Mukherjee, master of play acting? nono. I barely manage being myself. ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Richard Tracey said:

Nope.... try again:D

Oh okay... I googled lone soldier and got some results. If this ain't it, then I give up.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Richard Tracey    252
54 minutes ago, Sreyashi Mukherjee said:

Oh okay... I googled lone soldier and got some results. If this ain't it, then I give up.

 

That's it - that would be a good idea for a song....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeRobinson    146

Sometimes, I've got a lyric.  Sometimes, I've got a tune.  Rarely do I have both at the same time.  But, capture every single thing.

 

Later, you might see that a bit of this tune, coupled with a bit of that one, can mesh perfectly with a bit of this lyric, and a bit of that one.

 

What almost never happens, if at all, is "Venus popping out of a clam-shell, fully formed (and, totally starkers!)" on some beach somewhere.  Inspiration might provide you with raw material but you make what comes out of it, through a series of decisions.

 

Don't throw anything away.  Draw a line through it and stuff it into a "wastebasket box" that you never actually empty.  Go through its content from time to time.  You might find in it the answer to your latest musical conundrum.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jenn    171

@Mahesh I usually am able to connect to every song I sing in one way or another. But even when I feel like I'm really feeling it, my vocal instructor says to put in more emotion... So, I don't know. I just hope that as long as I am enjoying the song that it comes across to whoever is listening. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×