What Instrument do you Record First?

[symphonious7]

I've always recorded my guitars first when I begin recording because it's my main instrument, it's what I play the most naturally, and it's the easiest instrument to know my place I can hum along as I play and I know where I'm at.  But recently I've come to the conclusion it's not the way to go, and I need to program my drums first.  The reason is cause my takes just don't have the right rhythm and they're more out of the pocket when I don't have those drums to give me the feel.  The downside is programming the drums without any reference track is tedious, I have to really imagine the song as I play them and sometimes I get lost and have to play the whole thing back to figure out where I'm at.  I also don't always know the best beat to use without any bass or guitar etc.  But ultimately I think it saves time in the long run, I often times used to have to go back and re-record almost every instrument after the drums were laid.  

 

Do you guys have anything like this you've noticed?  An instrument you have to start with or the recording just doesn't go right?  

[symphonious7]

Just now, Jenn said:

No I just hit one note and the whole song is written for me

 

 

 

 

hahahaha no... usually I start with basic chords on either a piano or synth and then I do the drums next

Yeah I always did those kinda of instruments first too, something with the chords in it.  For me it just doesn't work as well I don't think, something about having the beat first.  LOL  It's starting to dawn on me this was a pretty like... uneventful thread, oooo let's sit around and discuss what instrument we record first oooooo.....  I dunno it was just what I was thinking about this morning lol  Just derail the crap out of this thread guys, ANARCHY!!!!!!

[symphonious7]

Just now, Jenn said:

Well here's a question ...

how many of your ideas actually materialize into a full song?

probably like..

1/20 for me honestly

Ooooo that IS a good question..... for me it's like.... hmmmm...... maybe half?  I always have ideas going through my head I'm not recording, I usually EVENTUALLY get to them but some have been there for years and years and I just never record them, always going "Man I really need to record that one!"  

[symphonious7]

1 minute ago, Jenn said:

My problem is... I can really like something that I've come up with.. but then I don't feel it.. so I just close it. 

Most times I can't get past the first 4 bars.. but then something amazing happens and I have a whole song

I have alot of ideas that are just plain out of my reach.  Like they require parts I can't play, instruments I have no good sound for, production tricks I have no idea how to do.  Alot of those ideas I don't do because I don't wanna compromise and just "work with what I got" so I just save them for this magical fantasy day in my mind when I have an amazing producer who's my best friend and has all the musicians in the world at his disposal lol

[symphonious7]

2 minutes ago, Jenn said:

I was like this... but then I realized no one is gonna do it for me  (Just yet)... so I just spend a lot of time in Garageband now

For me I come up with like.... man I come up with probably 3 or 4 songs a week when I'm actually working, so I have enough doable ideas to put the harder ones on the backburner.  problem is if they sit on that burner too long they might burn up.... hahaha

[symphonious7]

4 minutes ago, Jenn said:

3-4 songs a week!!! geez... I consider myself productive at 1 song/month... I'm a slow writer 

And idk that may be a hot song then

Nice one hahahaha

[symphonious7]

Oh and I think a song a month is pretty average, I've always known my idea creating ability was abnormally.... "on".  I worked with a producer for 5 years who always made me his go to idea guy, he'd call me in and go "We've got a great singer with a GREAT voice and we want her to have THIS image and sound" and I'd go in and we'd always have a pretty decent idea by the end of the day.  It's like a faucet that doesn't turn off for me, but I rarely meet musicians who experience the same thing.  Most people really spend time on their songs, weeks, montths, it's quite common for the process to take that long.  Writer's block is also something most musicians struggle with, I never get it for some reason.  (Hope this doesn't sound braggy, I've got OTHER issues when it comes to making music, coming up with ideas just isn't one of them )

Oh @Jenn

[symphonious7]

2 minutes ago, tunesmithth said:

For what it's worth, my 2 cents...an excerpt from an old blog article -

 

 

For anyone interested, the article link (it's brief, I promise ) - 

 

That is soooo cool you posted that Tom, I really thought "this was a pointless post it doesn't matter" only to find out that there is really something to this "recording the drums first" thing!!  haha well how about that!

[Just1L]

I pick a drum beat first that goes well with whatever guitar idea I have. I don't consider the drums "recording" though. It is the guitar first. I record most of the song after the drums. When I feel I'm really close to being finished, I go and work on the drums. Once the drums are good to go I check the bass to see if there is anywhere that could be tightened up with the new drums. 

[Just1L]

1 hour ago, Jenn said:

Well here's a question ...

how many of your ideas actually materialize into a full song?

probably like..

1/20 for me honestly

 

I've only started one song out of about 30 that I didn't finish. The rest I didn't stop until finished.

[symphonious7]

2 minutes ago, Just1L said:

I pick a drum beat first that goes well with whatever guitar idea I have. I don't consider the drums "recording" though. It is the guitar first. I record most of the song after the drums. When I feel I'm really close to being finished, I go and work on the drums. Once the drums are good to go I check the bass to see if there is anywhere that could be tightened up with the new drums. 

I wonder if I could start playing to a loop first to save time.  It's easier to record the drums if I have the other parts but I can't record the other parts well without a beat, loop might be the answer.  

[symphonious7]

2 minutes ago, Just1L said:

 

I've only started one song out of about 30 that I didn't finish. The rest I didn't stop until finished.

That's really admirable, I'm STARTING to get that kind of drive but my whole life I didn't, always really lazy with my music.  See that's the problem with a faucet that never turns off, you don't see it as a big deal and you don't take it seriously and you get lazy with your work.  And by "you" I mean ME. lol

[Just1L]

4 minutes ago, symphonious7 said:

I wonder if I could start playing to a loop first to save time.  It's easier to record the drums if I have the other parts but I can't record the other parts well without a beat, loop might be the answer.  

 

Yeah, just make sure you got the bpm you want before you get too far along with it. That is the only thing that has given me a headache in the past. But really, I have the exact bpm I want with the guitar part. I just adjust the beat to match. I do sometimes record guitar first without any beat so I get that exact speed I want. Then I play it in iTunes while fiddling with the drums to get it right.

[symphonious7]

4 minutes ago, Just1L said:

 

Yeah, just make sure you got the bpm you want before you get too far along with it. That is the only thing that has given me a headache in the past. But really, I have the exact bpm I want with the guitar part. I just adjust the beat to match. I do sometimes record guitar first without any beat so I get that exact speed I want. Then I play it in iTunes while fiddling with the drums to get it right.

Finding the right tempo is hard for me.  My tendency is to WANT to play it at a tempo that's higher than FEELS right, once it FEELS right it's hard for me not to get ahead of the click.  

[symphonious7]

1 minute ago, Jenn said:

I've been meaning to ask this... but do you guys find drum tracks online or make them your own?

I play them on the keyboard and then edit.  I can always get the basic structure by just playing it like you'd play the piano, but my meter is usually pretty up and down and there's usually some pretty major mistakes in there, so I quantize the main body of work and then go in and fix the problem sections.  I use midi so I can edit it any way I want.  

[symphonious7]

Sometimes I wish I could clone myself and just be my own backing band.  Then I'd just record it all live lol

[symphonious7]

1 minute ago, tunesmithth said:

I'll leave you with one last quote from part 1 of my 3-part series on Crafting Drum Parts For Original Songs.

 

 

Yes and as a composer I struggle with the same thing.  When you're doing EVERYTHING it's hard to imagine it all together truly, often times I'm sure a backing part or rhythm is gonna be baller in the song, only to realize it's stepping on everyone's toes.  

[symphonious7]

1 minute ago, HoboSage said:

In my more fully-produced stuff - stuff I know is going to have drums - I start with drums.  But, I don't "program" the drums  Though I know what killer drumming is when I hear it, I'm not a drummer, and I can't think of all the same things a good drummer can think of.  So, I use real drummers - I use loops of killer drummers playing killer kits that are recorded extremely well, and then I put those together for a full-song drum arrangement.  I write the music to the drums.  They really inspire me, and I think I"m getting pretty good results.

 

 

I feel like I've used that method before, some of these live drum programs can create almost any type of changing beat patterns you want, and if you've got a good map of the idea in your mind you can cut and paste till you basically have what you were looking for.  Do you then midi edit them more precisely after recording?  To get EXACTLY what you're looking for?  

[symphonious7]

Just now, HoboSage said:

There's no MIDI about them.  They're already recorded as audio files/samples.  I use them in REX2 format.  I can't really "edit" them at least in terms of the particular sounds within a sample.  But, I can slice, splice, arrange, copy and mix and blend them.  I can also enhance with with particualr MIDI drum sounds.  For example, I might need a crash cymbal where the loop doesn't have one - so I add that as an extra MIDI drum sound.

Gotcha, I use addictive drums, they have sampled beats too but you can even go in and edit the sample anyway you want.  I like what you do with your loops though, it really works.  

[symphonious7]

Wait.... but as I understood it, addictive drums WAS real professional recorded drummers, they just I thought like... broke the sounds up too so you can edit them or recorded like every different hit you could think of.  I didn't think they were artificial, they don't sound it to me.  But yeah there's not alot of loops to choose from though I never look, and I definitely DON'T think they just "sound great" immediately, they sound like... really oddly eq'd and the overheads swallow everything.  I still thought it was professionally recorded drums, guess I misunderstood?