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MonoStone    904

Hello, My ears are tired...I'm tired... sick n tired... 

 

How does this sound? Mix feedback? Any thoughts welcome.

 

https://soundcloud.com/monostone-1/think06/s-8kF6n

 

Words.... I have no idea what they mean. They probably mean something...

 

Gold, hiding from the sun

Let’s roll, we could be the ones

Who do we think we are now

Who do you think we are

Who do we think we are now

Who do you think we are

 

I know the midnight ghost is coming by

our salvation is rolling through the night

Revelation coming on a silver line

Destination… high

 

Billowing clouds of animal scenes

Carry the scent of heavenly green

God is a mind but the mind is mine

full of broken dreams

God is a mind and it’s yours and mine

but nothing is free

 

I know the midnight ghost is coming by

our salvation is rolling through the night

Revelation coming on a silver line

Destination… high

 

Repeat stuff.... 

Edited by MonoStone
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HoboSage    1,990

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too much reverb! :)

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MonoStone    904
16 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Too much reverb! :)

ok thanks. I'll listen again with fresh ears soon. 

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Dallon426    29

I think the mix is good. The music is cool.  I actually like the effects and they fit this spaced out vibe.  It's a cool tune, nothing stands out that much.  It's a bit long without changing much, so if I were you I wouldn't repeat the lyrics as much as you do.  Vocals are solid and for the genre

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Jenn    246

I actually agree with hobo... too much reverb. It gets everything else dusty.

I don't like the tube effect on you on "who do we think we are now" ... I think you would get a much better effect by just doing a lot of harmonies on it with falsetto and chest

 

I don't like the guitar backing  during:

 

I know the midnight ghost is coming by

our salvation is rolling through the night

Revelation coming on a silver line

Destination… high

 

It's either 1) too loud.. or 2) just not the right instrument at all... What if you tried more of a electric keyboard or something? 

Ohhhh I definitely like 2:00.... that effect may even work for that previous backing guitar

 

I think in general, too, your voice isn't loud enough in the mix

 

 

I almost feel like this song is too ornamental.. You have a great groove going on with just the rhythm guitar, bass, and drums... and unfortunately you lose it sometimes throughout the song to other instruments that aren't doing toooo much.

 

I also agree with Dallon.. that it gets a little long. It definitely sets a mood and I could hear it playing in like a cocktail lounge

But if I were listening on my own, I think I may have changed it.. 

 

Anyway.. that's what I have to say.. good luck

 

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Giora Tal    5

I like it, it reminds me of Michael Cretu. 

The guitars are awesome in the mix after the 2nd chorus.

The mix sounds full and balanced. The guitar that follows the vocal is a cool effect.

 

*I think the HH needs cleaning, they ring a bit.

 

What are you producing with? what was recorded live?

 

Good work!

Edited by Giora Tal

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HoboSage    1,990

LOL My, Friend.  You know we never agree about reverb.  

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MonoStone    904
8 hours ago, Jenn said:

I actually agree with hobo... too much reverb. It gets everything else dusty.

I don't like the tube effect on you on "who do we think we are now" ... I think you would get a much better effect by just doing a lot of harmonies on it with falsetto and chest

 

I don't like the guitar backing  during:

 

I know the midnight ghost is coming by

our salvation is rolling through the night

Revelation coming on a silver line

Destination… high

 

It's either 1) too loud.. or 2) just not the right instrument at all... What if you tried more of a electric keyboard or something? 

Ohhhh I definitely like 2:00.... that effect may even work for that previous backing guitar

 

I think in general, too, your voice isn't loud enough in the mix

 

 

I almost feel like this song is too ornamental.. You have a great groove going on with just the rhythm guitar, bass, and drums... and unfortunately you lose it sometimes throughout the song to other instruments that aren't doing toooo much.

 

I also agree with Dallon.. that it gets a little long. It definitely sets a mood and I could hear it playing in like a cocktail lounge

But if I were listening on my own, I think I may have changed it.. 

 

Anyway.. that's what I have to say.. good luck

 

Thanks Jenn, I'm going to disagree though about the guitar being swapped for a keyboard. I like the guitar sound I got, and I don't want it to be heavy on keyboards. I think it's a different vibe to my usual....cocktail lounge lol...maybe so.

 

8 hours ago, Dallon426 said:

I think the mix is good. The music is cool.  I actually like the effects and they fit this spaced out vibe.  It's a cool tune, nothing stands out that much.  It's a bit long without changing much, so if I were you I wouldn't repeat the lyrics as much as you do.  Vocals are solid and for the genre

Thanks Dallon. Yeah I think it could be shortened. Glad you thought it was cool.

 

43 minutes ago, Giora Tal said:

I like it, it reminds me of Michael Cretu. 

The guitars are awesome in the mix after the 2nd chorus.

The mix sounds full and balanced. The guitar that follows the vocal is a cool effect.

 

*I think the HH needs cleaning, they ring a bit.

 

What are you producing with? what was recorded live?

 

Good work!

Thanks Giora, Michael Cretu? I dunno.... thanks I'm glad you like it. It's done in Reason... The guitars, bass and vocals are all recorded 'live' yes, the rest is played on keyboard and the drums are loops...

 

26 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

LOL My, Friend.  You know we never agree about reverb.  

True but I'll check it... ;) I'd heard it for too long.... I need a break from it anyway and then I'll see what I have, and check the reverb. 

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3 hours ago, MonoStone said:

I think it's a different vibe to my usual

The vibe could be different but your trademark remains.. and that reverb especially is your trademark, which btw I like!  :)

 

Another trademark of your's that I seem to notice is the length of your songs, which seem to on the longer side... sometimes it works, sometimes it could be more concise. I agree with Dallon on this.

 

Had a long day today and logged in for quick peek. Listened to your song and felt relaxed and now I'll have a good night's sleep :001_smile:

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HoboSage    1,990

Do we really want trademark-sounding mixes, and if so, do we want them based on reverb?  I'm just asking, and I'm not asking Phil Spector.  :)

Edited by HoboSage

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MonoStone    904

to be be fair some of my recent-ish mixes have had a lot less reverb. Not all of them but some. I mean Saunton sands would be bone dry if I turned the reverb down any further....

 

 I like reverb, I realise I sometimes overdo it, but unlike my tracks of a few years ago I don't just slap reverb on everything anymore. I mean this track has totally dry drums (apart from whatever room sound they had when the loop was recorded), totally dry bass (not a drop of verb on that),  the electric guitar is totally dry for half the verse but has a reverse reverb/delay for half, the slow strummed acoustic is dry and uses a spreader to double it (no reverb)..... vocals have all kinds of effects in this, some reverb but only the backing has big reverb..... The majority of the reverb is on the twiddly 'lead' (for want of a better word) guitars (acoustic, electric and one electric with ebow), because I really wanted them to echo.... 

 

So it might be that some elements can have the reverb reduced, and I will look into it, but again... there's not just reverb on everything...

 

and again... I enjoy the sound of reverb, especially on guitars. I just like it. But... that doesn't mean I shouldn't work on refining the way I use it..... BUT... because I like it my tracks will rarely be totally dry. 

 

Trademarks... lol... I do everything without any formula. I stumble through every time trying new stuff... and if anyone bothers to roll back 4 years they'll find my tracks have a tiny fraction of the reverb they used to (I was shocked when I recently opened some old ones)... nah, it's no trademark. Just me doing whatever seems good at the time.

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Fernando    39

Hi Monostone, I really enjoyed this tune. I won't go about the mix or the level of reverb used.

The thing that really calls my attention is that you said you don't know what the lyrics - "words" - mean. You said that they probably mean something. So, what's the point of writing them? Why didn't you go just for la la la's or instrumental?

I think lyrics are a very important element for a song, they have to tell a story, even if it is cheap and common; or abstract, cryptic or surreal. However, the songwriter must know what the intention, message or moral is.

Edited by Fernando

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ImKeN    271

Hey Dek, another cool song idea from you. The intro totally captured my attention and then the song kept it all the way, solid song idea man. I can't give feedback on the mix due to my, temporary, left-ear problem(swimmer's ear). Just really wanted to let you know that I enjoyed this song very much. 👍

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I like this. It's got vibe.

 

I don't think there's too much reverb on this. Too much reverb (on certain elements, mainly vocals) can make a mix sound amateur-ish, but I don't get that with this song at all. If you mixed everything to be drier, it would still work, but then the vibe would simply be different. At the moment, I'm reminded of certain '90s style music.

 

It's relaxing, and cool, and I can see myself listening to this through headphones while I'm walking on a beach in some warm country. 

 

There's not much variation going on throughout the song, but again, it suits this type of song, IMHO.

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MonoStone    904
4 hours ago, Fernando said:

Hi Monostone, I really enjoyed this tune. I won't go about the mix or the level of reverb used.

The thing that really calls my attention is that you said you don't know what the lyrics - "words" - mean. You said that they probably mean something. So, what's the point of writing them? Why didn't you go just for la la la's or instrumental?

I think lyrics are a very important element for a song, they have to tell a story, even if it is cheap and common; or abstract, cryptic or surreal. However, the songwriter must know what the intention, message or moral is.

Thanks Fernando! Hmmm words.... Without being too arty farty, I do have a different opinion about lyric writing. I write in different way for each song, but often, as in this one, I write purely from my subconscious. The words are not random, they're just what came out as I expressed my mood and thoughts to the music. Often I find doing that brings out words which make sense to me, or I can manipulate them into sense and story... in this case I felt unsure what the words meant to me but they certainly convey my mood at the time of writing. I borrowed 'Midnight Ghost' from Jack Kerouac I think as that term had stuck in my mind since reading one of his books... but other than that it's pure stream of consciousness type stuff... and I personally think that is a totally valid way to write AS LONG AS it's done creatively, with attention to flow and feel, and as long as the words help the listener get some mood/vibe/emotion/something from the song..... I also agree with many respected songwriters such as McCartney and Gallagher in the reasoning - "It just sounded good"...although again, I believe there should be more substance than purely that, and....

 

...in this case I'm not sure I succeeded with the words, I'm not wildly into them at the moment and I'm not defending this particular lyric, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned not knowing what they meant BUT... I don't agree that just 'la la la' would have been equally useful or that words always have to have crystal clear immediate meaning and tell a story.

 

1 hour ago, ImKeN said:

Hey Dek, another cool song idea from you. The intro totally captured my attention and then the song kept it all the way, solid song idea man. I can't give feedback on the mix due to my, temporary, left-ear problem(swimmer's ear). Just really wanted to let you know that I enjoyed this song very much. 👍

Hi Ken, Thank you I'm glad it worked for you so far. I've not listened since posting...I'm letting it rest so I can hear it more objectively when I listen again so it might be that so far it's just an idea to develop further...I'm not sure yet. I hope your ear is better soon! Wishing you well!!

 

31 minutes ago, Will Sketches said:

I like this. It's got vibe.

 

I don't think there's too much reverb on this. Too much reverb (on certain elements, mainly vocals) can make a mix sound amateur-ish, but I don't get that with this song at all. If you mixed everything to be drier, it would still work, but then the vibe would simply be different. At the moment, I'm reminded of certain '90s style music.

 

It's relaxing, and cool, and I can see myself listening to this through headphones while I'm walking on a beach in some warm country. 

 

There's not much variation going on throughout the song, but again, it suits this type of song, IMHO.

 

Thanks Will... Vibe was the driving factor in this, and I'm extremely glad it worked for you in the way you describe. I'll have to see about the reverb when I listen again but it's true the 90s was my time and I do get a bit stuck there, it's where my own ears are most entertained maybe....although I'd like to shake that maybe, sometimes...

 

....

 

Again about the vibe... I don't think I entirely achieved what I intended because it could use a voice which I'm not capable of, and some good lead guitar. So if I continue with the tune my feeling is I could find someone to sing it better for the vibe, and some interesting guitar in the break would help (the synthy sounding sound there is actually me playing a 'lead' (of sorts) on guitar but really really crap so I put that spacey effect on it to make it something else.... or maybe that's better ...not sure... I'm rambling now........ thanks again all!

Edited by MonoStone

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I actually think your voice suits this song really well. But I appreciate that you have a certain vision of what the song should sound like in your mind, and then it sometimes comes out a different way. 

 

I really like the synthy sounding guitar. What kind of lead playing did you have in mind? 

 

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MonoStone    904
4 minutes ago, Will Sketches said:

I actually think your voice suits this song really well. But I appreciate that you have a certain vision of what the song should sound like in your mind, and then it sometimes comes out a different way. 

 

I really like the synthy sounding guitar. What kind of lead playing did you have in mind? 

 

 

Thanks Will. I'm not sure yet... I liked the hollow body guitar with wah I used and was going down that route...but.... then I also like the way the ebow guitar enters that section (which I think promises more than is delivered currently) and IF I could play better I would have had a distorted guitar like that really wailing .... although not in a metal kind of way... hard to describe... I may have another try to see if I can achieve what I imagine.

 

 

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Fernando    39
16 hours ago, MonoStone said:

and I personally think that is a totally valid way to write AS LONG AS it's done creatively, with attention to flow and feel, and as long as the words help the listener get some mood/vibe/emotion/something from the song.....

 

I agree with you! It's totally valid to write this way. It was just kind of shocking to me what you said in the song post; it sounded like "I don't care about them"; now it is different and I agree, lyrics can be cryptic but, in a good quality work, they usually have a tendency to some feeling, mood or idea; hopefully, triggering beautiful, grateful and/or amazing findings for the listener.

 

I think there's something called "automatic writing", and after you have sketched an animal this way, then you go consciously adding and trimming here and there to round it out.

 

Even writing mistakes - which the writer acknowledges at some point - or silly, but conscious, substitutions or licenses in writing can lead to beautiful lyrics; I just remembered this from Fran Healy: "I tried to buy you roses / but all the stars were closed", nice, isn't it? From this perspective, even the "it sounded good" explanation could be valid too, I think.

 

 

Edited by Fernando

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MonoStone    904
3 minutes ago, Fernando said:

It was just kind of shocking to me what you said in the song post; it sounded like "I don't care about them"

 

Yep, I realise you read it that way... but actually I do care very much about words... I just don't always completely understand them. 

 

6 minutes ago, Fernando said:

I agree, lyrics can be cryptic but, in a good quality work, they usually have a tendency to some feeling, mood or idea; hopefully, triggering beautiful, grateful and/or amazing findings for the listener.

Exactly, and my taste is for lyrics which don't tell a totally clear story. If I'm listening to music (rather than making it) I most enjoy songs with words that just feel right...but that doesn't mean I like them to mean nothing.... I especially like the ones which seem to mean something that I just know I'll never COMPLETELY understand, and for a long time I thought that not understanding totally must be my fault, but having spent a lot of time listening to those artists explain... it's really the case that they didn't always completely understand when they first wrote the words. 

 

And to me that doesn't mean that words should be just chucked in willy nilly just because they rhyme...it's not like that at all... it's a case of expressing yourself or even just interpreting the mood of the music, in some way the words should feel real and important to you I think.

 

And once again, I don't always say 'don't know what they mean' because usually get where I'm coming from, but in this case I wasn't sure...so I doubted the words... I still doubt them... and if time tells me that this song is one to keep then I'll care about the words even more, and maybe in the end I'll work more on them, but first I need to know whether I like the overall song enough.... and at the moment I feel like - it's ok....it's more of a just a chill out kind of track than a song I'd listen carefully to, and maybe that's ok and maybe it isn't ...and.... I'm rambling now because it's late ;)

 

Thanks for replying about it anyway. And yes the 'stars were all closed' is great for who knows what reason.... word play or just a happy mistake that just feels good.

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HoboSage    1,990

I hear ya, Dek.  I often can't explain what my lyric means, but it still has meaning for me - sometimes powerfully so.  And, that I can't explain it I think is what allows it to have that meaning for me, and if I could otherwise explain it, the meaning I can't explain would be lost.  

 

 

Edited by HoboSage

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MonoStone    904
7 minutes ago, HoboSage said:

I often can't explain what my lyric means, but it still has meaning for me - sometimes powerfully so.  And, that I can't explain it I think is what allows it to have that meaning for me, and if I could otherwise explain it, the meaning I can't explain would be lost.  

 

yeah exactly, I couldn't put it better. 

 

And if I could write in a way that told a very clear and matter of fact story or point of view with nothing deeper then I'd be one o them there 'lyricist' types!  (that's me in big trub again!)

 

 

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Giora Tal    5
On 7/27/2017 at 7:47 PM, MonoStone said:

to be be fair some of my recent-ish mixes have had a lot less reverb. Not all of them but some. I mean Saunton sands would be bone dry if I turned the reverb down any further....

 

 I like reverb, I realise I sometimes overdo it, but unlike my tracks of a few years ago I don't just slap reverb on everything anymore. I mean this track has totally dry drums (apart from whatever room sound they had when the loop was recorded), totally dry bass (not a drop of verb on that),  the electric guitar is totally dry for half the verse but has a reverse reverb/delay for half, the slow strummed acoustic is dry and uses a spreader to double it (no reverb)..... vocals have all kinds of effects in this, some reverb but only the backing has big reverb..... The majority of the reverb is on the twiddly 'lead' (for want of a better word) guitars (acoustic, electric and one electric with ebow), because I really wanted them to echo.... 

 

So it might be that some elements can have the reverb reduced, and I will look into it, but again... there's not just reverb on everything...

 

and again... I enjoy the sound of reverb, especially on guitars. I just like it. But... that doesn't mean I shouldn't work on refining the way I use it..... BUT... because I like it my tracks will rarely be totally dry. 

 

Trademarks... lol... I do everything without any formula. I stumble through every time trying new stuff... and if anyone bothers to roll back 4 years they'll find my tracks have a tiny fraction of the reverb they used to (I was shocked when I recently opened some old ones)... nah, it's no trademark. Just me doing whatever seems good at the time.

Hey, you mentioned that you don't use reverb on the drums except for the room they were recorded. After listening to your track, I admired the drum loops special effect. I know this can be done by playing the loops on the monitors and recording the sound coming from the room and then play them together. I don't own a good set of monitors yet, but I wonder if this could work...

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M57    259

Hey Dek. Love the groove/vibe - and especially your use of special effects, both on instruments and with patches.  You have become the master of your genre. There's little to criticize as far as I'm concerned.  Yeah, you dial up the reverb on your voice a lot and it tends to give your tunes a sound that has extra depth - some might call it too dense, but really, your reverb choices are fine. They speak to your production aesthetic.  Sade comes to mind with this one, probably because of the groove, but she is produced similarly where the mix is concerned.  It's very easy to listen to.  There's some really nice harmonic motion in places, which makes it particularly more interesting and enjoyable for me as a listener.  Congrats are certainly due.   -Mark

Edited by M57
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Oswlek    87

Sounds awesome to me.  There is definitely a strong reverb bed, but I like it.  Your decisions on what to leave dry feel appropriate and nothing feels overly drenched.  Every time I listen to your stuff it makes me notice my failings as a producer... and this is no exception. :)

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Richard Tracey    273

Dek - can't believe I missed this one.

 

I don't find it as instant as all your other tracks, but it certainly has a nice chilled out vibe, I was kind of thinking that a Zero 7 type mix of this would be really nice.

 

I have to agree with others that it felt a bit on the long side and I wasn't really feeling the sound you had on your voice at certain points.

 

I don't mind the reverb and I sometimes think it helps to gel everything together in the mix.

 

When I was listening I kept thinking the track should be called Destination, as it seemed a better title and that is what caught my attention more when you sang it.

 

As for lyrics - I am sure I have said my piece on lyrics before. I love imaginative lyrics and it doesn't matter to me whether they tell a story or not. If they sound good and go with the track that is good enough for me.

 

I thought your vocals were good on this one ('other than that plugin or whatever it was on certain parts).

 

When are you going to release the album?

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Matthew76    232

Oh, really nice the way you sing on this one, Dek...

The sounds are great, as always... and there is always this kind of tranquillity we can feel when we listen your stuff...

Ideal for these holidays;)...

Beautiful piece like a soft dream!

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