Mastering recommendations?

[john]

Hey

Do you guys have any recommendations for mastering? Do it yourself with a decent mastering package vs professional mastering? If you have experience of either I'd love to hear your opinions, recommendations and advice.

Cheers

John

[hariossa]

get Izotope Ozone is all you need to get an incredible sound, they also have a free mastering guide in pdf format.

hope it helps!!

[Prometheus]

Hey

Do you guys have any recommendations for mastering? Do it yourself with a decent mastering package vs professional mastering? If you have experience of either I'd love to hear your opinions, recommendations and advice.

Cheers

John

I reckon you need a high quality compressor / limiter and a high quality EQ device... And you need a package the lets you graphically analyse frequency and phase (although you should always go with what your ears tell you) Parametric Sweeps are great (Cool Edit Pro has one of the best I've seen) for identifying irritating frequencies, and it also has a fantastic Stone Wall limiter...

I reckon subtractive EQ is genrally best, instead of boosting Highs dramatically I think it's better to scoop out some of the midrange, this sounds more natural, and maybe just a little boost of a decibel or two at the high end to give your mixdown a bit of sizzle at the high end... What I've found one has to watch is that overdoing the mid cut or high end boost tends to make the sibilants come out a bit too much...

My best advice would be to think things out with your instrumentation at the recording and mixing stages to get a good frequency spread, if your recording doesn't have enough high end on it, use a tambourine, or a shaker or some kind of percussion with high harmonics. This tends to sound much more natural than throwing a lot of effects at your mix...

the main differences I've noticed between professional products and garage ones is the amount of midrange and Stone wall Limiting... It's important to use a Stone Wall Limiter to boost your mix to match that of industry released CD's...

Apart from that, the obvious things of years of practice and being careful not to over use effects like EQ and noise reduction. Alaising errors caused by noise reduction are far more disturbing than hiss actually is, and over EQ'd sounds can be dreadfully off putting too...

One more thing, you can't polish a turd. If you have a recording that has been done badly, or a mixdown that has been done badly, you're probably not going to fix it with mastering tricks and achieve an industry product result. Mastering is like putting icing on a cake. It adds something to the cake and makes it taste nicer, but if the cake has been poorly baked in the first place, the best you'll ever achieve is damage limitation...

One final thought, advice on mastering onto vinyl... Don't try...

[FinnArild]

Do you guys have any recommendations for mastering? Do it yourself with a decent mastering package vs professional mastering? If you have experience of either I'd love to hear your opinions, recommendations and advice.

Hey - I did try to do some of the mastering myself, but quickly found out that the pro's did it quicker and better than me. But be there when they do it - you want to try to explain what you're after and let them do a perimeter of their possibilities for you so you can choose.

I'd not advice you to do mastering at all if you're not ready to dive into it (it's a big subject, and technically more challenging than mixing) - and never do mastering on your own mix at any rate. You know it too well ...

[john]

Hey

Thanks for all the replies! I should say that currently I do my own mastering using Wavelab (can't remember the version). i find it good for standard editing, but there are some features that could be better, especially the frequency analysis.

Hari, I'll check the link thanks! Prometheus, most of the EQing you describe I do at mixdown. Currently I do some EQing and some compression when I master, but I'm just not happy with the results. Probably because I don't really use a stone wall filter. I have the ratio set to 1:4 normally. I'll give it a try! (just a plug in. on recording I use a Behringer composer)

Finn, roughly how much are we talking? I assume you got to sit in on the mastering sessions?

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Hey

Thanks for all the replies! I should say that currently I do my own mastering using Wavelab (can't remember the version). i find it good for standard editing, but there are some features that could be better, especially the frequency analysis.

Hari, I'll check the link thanks! Prometheus, most of the EQing you describe I do at mixdown. Currently I do some EQing and some compression when I master, but I'm just not happy with the results. Probably because I don't really use a stone wall filter. I have the ratio set to 1:4 normally. I'll give it a try! (just a plug in. on recording I use a Behringer composer)

Finn, roughly how much are we talking? I assume you got to sit in on the mastering sessions?

Cheers

John

Initially, I found that mastering was the hardest aspect of studio engineering to learn, and the first steps in it I found difficult. I remember pulling my hair out for years actually, trying to figure out what the difference between my mixes and the big studio mixes were... If you plug away at it though, eventually it does become second nature and you reach a point where you feel confident in it...

I think it goes in all trades. I was talking to a joiner a couple of months ago who was saying that when he served his time, he thought he would never get the hang of it, and then one day it all just fell into place. I remember in all the early work I did, I would keep going back to it again and again and never quite feel that it was finished...

[FinnArild]

Finn, roughly how much are we talking? I assume you got to sit in on the mastering sessions?

I'm budgeting $5-800 for the album, but prices differ. I hope to get a good deal doing both mastering and printing at one dealer.

[Masterman]

It really depends on the purpose of the finished product. For demos and song submission it probably is a good idea to get a handle on it yourself. Izotope ozone is a good package. Some of the Waves stuff is very good.

Perhaps for an album it is better to get the mastering done by a professional. Outside of the obvious advantages of superior gear and a professional set of ears, objectivity will be a big advantage as well. Chances are, you will be too close to the project and an objective point of view will be a huge advantage.

Whether you get a pro or do it yourself, it is a good idea to assemble a couple of commercial CDs with a similar style and sound to what you are trying to achieve. If you do it yourself, it will give you something to compare your progress to and if you go to a pro, it will make it very easy to explain to him.

If he can hear what you want it will make his job easier and it should mean that you get a better result.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Masterman

[Prometheus]

One recurring theme here that I totally disagree with is that you shouldn't master your own mixes... If you are a good engineer, you're going to be able to apply detachment, and the fact that you know the mix and are close to it should only make you better suited to mastering it...

I would advise leaving it for another day and doing it with a fresh set of ears of course, and I would advise A-B comparisons on other listening equipment to help eliminate any doubt...

In my opinion, recording is the part of the process with all the question marks for foul ups... Mastering is only daunting because people tend to have less experience in it... The big difference I've noticed between garage products and pro products is stone wall limiting and that in garage ones effects tend to be overused if anything...

Of course, no matter how excellent your work is, you can always rely on trouble from the Monday Morning Quarterbacks...

Prometheus, most of the EQing you describe I do at mixdown.

I do too, but I've noticed that some fine tuning is very often benificial at the mastering stage...

Edited May 24, 2006 by Prometheus

[john]

Hey Prom

For me it depends on what the reason is for mastering. On most mixes I do my own mastering, but I would use a mastering service that I can sit in on the sessions before going to CD, or get an engineer I respect to use my system (if I didn't have much cash).

Why?

Perspective. In several ways. In addition to a fresh pair of ears, their skills and experience is useful. I still get to input to the process, but unencumbered by 'how to', allowing me to focus on 'what to'.

Another difference is the level of experience. I can hone my mastering skills, but I divide my attention across the whole range of the recording process, and songwriting of course.

Leaving a mix over night (or longer if you can) is a good idea, but it's not the same as a fresh perspective. Fresher maybe, but not fresh.

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Roger that John, I'm all for getting fresh ears on my work... One of my pals that I did my time with was a sonar operator in the Navy before he got into engineering, and man, that guy can hear a mouse fart at fifty yards on a windy night. He's a good man to have by your side in any sound engineering scenario... I've worked with some great engineers and it is good to learn from looking at their approach. Hell, I've yet to work on any project where I haven't learned something in the process of it...

It's maybe a little bit of arrogance on my part to though, wanting to master things myself... I've noticed that we sound engineers often tend to think that we know best. I kinda figured that was just part of the thing of being an engineer, in a kind of "Right Stuff" way...

Edited May 24, 2006 by Prometheus

[john]

Hey

You mentioned the prospect of learning from other engineers (one of the many benefits of their skills and experience). One of the key things most engineers want to do is improve, and learn better/other ways of doing things. Learning from someone who knows is obviously very valuable. It may be difficult to let go the reins, but the dividends it can pay can improve the standard of your recording, production and mastering.

As a guy that looks to find the best route within my budget, a route that provides the ability to learn is generally a good investment as it is a way that can make a long term improvement to what I do, and at the same time pays immediate dividends. True, it is always a balance, and each of us finds that at a different point, but for me it makes sense.

For me the "right stuff" is not just a willingness to experiment and be creative, or the kind of analytical skills that allow us to solve problems. It's a willingness to learn from and work with others, and the ability to admit when I'm wrong or don't know what's best, to maximise my effectiveness and, where budget allows, to utilise the skills of others. My job is to efficiently find the best solution for the circumstances, ideally in a way that encourages not hampers the creativity of myself or others (that's the producer in me!).

I remember sitting in on a session with a rock producer (he'd worked with the likes of the Scorpions, Dio, Tygers of Pan Tang). I learnt a mixed bag of tricks, including how not to do things. He knew the technical side pretty well but he screwed up several things because he didn't effectively use the recording engineer. He had to tinker. Some good technical results, but if he had told the engineer or me (as assistant engineer) what he wanted it could have cut the the time it took by half. The sheer time it took killed the mood of any sessions for the band, and everyone else. When that happens creativity stalls and things easily go south. And it did.

No engineer is an island . We can't know it all, or do it all. If we try we spend all our time on unnecessary details, our throughput can drop through the floor. That and we actually learn less.

Think of it this way. There are 3 basic forms of learning:our own experience;learning from others by observation;learning from others using books etc. If you devote all your time to just 1, your skill set will not be well rounded and your overall development will be slower. If you spread your time evenly, you may be too well rounded for the skills that match your job, but it is less likely to be a problem. It makes you more adaptable for a start.

Anyhoo, I didn't mean such a long reply or to beat you with a stick!

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Think of it this way. There are 3 basic forms of learning:our own experience;learning from others by observation;learning from others using books etc. If you devote all your time to just 1, your skill set will not be well rounded and your overall development will be slower. If you spread your time evenly, you may be too well rounded for the skills that match your job, but it is less likely to be a problem. It makes you more adaptable for a start.

Anyhoo, I didn't mean such a long reply or to beat you with a stick!

That's okay... I wasn't meaning to imply that I won't work in a team, sometimes one should, or that I won't let any other engineer near my work, it's just that I don't agree with the assertion that there should be an unwritten rule against mastering your own product... If you feel up to it, why pay someone else your hard earned bucks when you don't have to?

[john]

Hey

Sorry yet again. I didn't think that, but it just got me onto a stream about the "right stuff".

For what it's worth, I do agree there shouldn't be an unwritten rule. Maybe more a set of guidelines... which should of course include a generous mention on DIY.

Cheers

John

[Prometheus]

Hey

Sorry yet again. I didn't think that, but it just got me onto a stream about the "right stuff".

Yeah, I'm a closet astronaut and flight Sim buff as well as an engineer... When I'm not in the studio, I'm in a Lunar Module Sim, which actually led onto an interesting sound recording project recently, but that's a story for another thread...

Personally, I've found that most of the people who've come to me to have work recorded have expected me to master it as part of the process, so I made a point of learning as much as I could about mastering a few years ago...

Personally, I find it by far the easiest of the three parts of the process, recording -> mixing -> mastering, kind of akin to putting icining on a cake, IF the recording and mixing has been done well... If the cake is well made, it's hard to go wrong and if the cake is not well made, best to go back to drawing board...

Certain mistakes can be mitigated somewhat by mastering fixes, but it is important for people to realise that a mastering suite is not a magic wand...

Edited May 29, 2006 by Prometheus

[GanGrenE]

Often when you´ve finished recording maybe lets say 10 songs it sounds like 10 different songs if you know what I mean. And a part of the mastering process is transforming the 10 songs into 1 album. Making it sound as a hole masterpiece instead of pieces together hehe=) I explain like a mofo I know lol!

Its not only sound, but also making it easy for the listeners to enjoy everything without thinking, hey what the f... happenened to the sound on this track...

Otherwise I thin the term less is more applies to mastering, if you say wow! You may just want to back of a bit to make it perfect for future listenings...Its also important to review the results on as many different stereos as possible, cheap ones, small ones, big ones, expensive ones etc...

I just found a masterlimiter from a guy named massey, free to download a trial that never ends, but you have to pay a small amout to get the entire range. I advice everybody to hear for your self what this plugin can do its really amazing. You dont hear it when its there, but you do hear when its not. Really impressive and free to use=)

[Chokai]

Superb mastering service our label uses regularly:

http://www.skpaudio.co.uk/

[Afiqme]

for software to mastering, u should go for t-racks ..

[themusicsnob]

I agree with Steve.

For better or worse, in my experience, if I want my recordings to compete with the recordings I admire, I need to use the same tools / methods they use to get their sounds. And since major label people aren't recording and mastering their stuff in their bedrooms, eventually I had to go to a real mastering studio for this. There is a unique quality to the recordings I've done in my apartment with just laptop plug-ins for mastering, if I could even call it that. But the sonic improvements I've heard in my recordings from mastering at places like Sterling Sound is huge. In the most recent case, the mastering brought out a significant level of detail in each instrument, and yet made the overall sound seem more cohesive. Now I am thinking that I should go back and have them re-master some of my really old home recordings to see how much improved they would be...

[Nightwolf]

Before you start practicing mixing, make sure to save unsullied tracks for the pros to work with before you start. I imagine it can take a long time to get back to the start after an amatuer has been working them