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Common Lyric Critique Questions

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john    1,420

Hey

I have written a new article about lyric writing critique.

Lyrics Critique for Songwriters

As part of this I've put together a list of common questions that you might ask yourself when reviewing someones' work.

The questions posted at the moment go some way towards a set of articles about planning and developing a lyric, but more on that later. :)

Anyway, the idea is to help improve upon this set of questions. Feel free to pass comment, and to suggest other questions, although the idea of this set is for questions that you should be able to answer "yes" to.

I will leave comments up, but I will copy new or altered questions into this post so that they remain an entire list.

Genre or style specific questions could be collected together within separate topics.

So...

Common Lyric Critique Questions:

Is the title memorable?

Is there one distinct lyrical message?

Is the title consistent with the lyrical message?

Is the plot believable?

Is the plot engaging?

Is the plot a suitable vehicle for conveying the message?

Does the message have a common appeal?

Does the theme have a common appeal?

Would the the theme and message paint the singer in a favorable light?

Does the lyric have a strong start pulling you into the lyric in the first couple of lines?

Is there a pay-off?

Is there a conclusion?

Is the rhyme scheme consistently applied?

Is the meter consistent?

Is the main lyrical hook consistent with the title?

Is the main lyrical hook placed appropriately for the song form?

Is the song form beneficial to the lyric?

Do I like it?

Cheers

John

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Nightwolf    56

Excellent work John, very thought provoking. Here are some ideas:

Common Lyric Critique Questions:

Is the title memorable?

Does the title make sense to you?

Is there one distinct lyrical message?

Is there a message?

Does the message have a common appeal?

Does the theme have a common appeal?

Do you agree with the message?

Is the message plain or hidden?

Would the the theme and message paint the singer in a favorable light?

Do you sympathize with them?

Does the lyric inspire Love or Hate?

Is the title consistent with the lyrical message?

Is there a plot?

Is the plot believable?

Is the plot engaging?

Is the plot a suitable vehicle for conveying the message?

Does the lyric have a strong start pulling you into the lyric in the first couple of lines?

Is there a pay-off?

Is there a conclusion?

Is the rhyme scheme consistently applied?

Is the meter consistent?

Is the main lyrical hook consistent with the title?

Is the main lyrical hook place appropriately for the song form?

Is the song form beneficial to the lyric?

Do I like it?

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I would think "Is the writer's intent clear" (or would you say that's included in "message?") and "is there a specific mood, or emotion that you feel from the lyric?" are important. Maybe "if the piece succeeds in entertaining, is it for the reasons the artist wanted it to succeed?"

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timewave    6

I sometimes find the message I"m conveying comes as the lyrics grow,they kinda send me to the message I"m writting about!?

Sometimes there really is no message or lyrics that can be related to several different subject matters.

Although I almost always have an idea of where its going,sometimes the music comes first and the music sends the lyrics to the song.? I think maybe I am crazy right?

Steve

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gathomas72    5

Na you're not crazy timewave. Sometimes I come up with just a few words or a phras, and write around them, sometimes I have a guitar lick and write around that, and sometimes I have an acutal subject matter that I write around. Inspiration comes in many forms. I normally play a guitar patter and then just mumble words that don't really mean anything but it helps shape the melody. Once I find the melody I can then start to craft the words I really want to say. I try to think about the end of the song first. It helps to have a destination when you write. Normally that's the hook. Once I have that phrase (hook) I then know the destination.

One thing that I like to do from time to time is to actually find the lyrics from well known artist and really sit down and analyze the structure. I look at the flow and how well it reads. To me a good song should read alomst like a book. Many people forget that as a songwriter you are really a story teller.

Has anyone used the Masterwriter software? I had a copy back in the day and thought it was excellent.

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W

Na you're not crazy timewave. Sometimes I come up with just a few words or a phras, and write around them, sometimes I have a guitar lick and write around that, and sometimes I have an acutal subject matter that I write around. Inspiration comes in many forms. I normally play a guitar patter and then just mumble words that don't really mean anything but it helps shape the melody. Once I find the melody I can then start to craft the words I really want to say. I try to think about the end of the song first. It helps to have a destination when you write. Normally that's the hook. Once I have that phrase (hook) I then know the destination.

One thing that I like to do from time to time is to actually find the lyrics from well known artist and really sit down and analyze the structure. I look at the flow and how well it reads. To me a good song should read alomst like a book. Many people forget that as a songwriter you are really a story teller.

Has anyone used the Masterwriter software? I had a copy back in the day and thought it was excellent.

Na you're not crazy timewave. Sometimes I come up with just a few words or a phras, and write around them, sometimes I have a guitar lick and write around that, and sometimes I have an acutal subject matter that I write around. Inspiration comes in many forms. I normally play a guitar patter and then just mumble words that don't really mean anything but it helps shape the melody. Once I find the melody I can then start to craft the words I really want to say. I try to think about the end of the song first. It helps to have a destination when you write. Normally that's the hook. Once I have that phrase (hook) I then know the destination.

One thing that I like to do from time to time is to actually find the lyrics from well known artist and really sit down and analyze the structure. I look at the flow and how well it reads. To me a good song should read alomst like a book. Many people forget that as a songwriter you are really a story teller.

Has anyone used the Masterwriter software? I had a copy back in the day and thought it was excellent.

"Do I like it" probably the best question , Yeah I've used that master writers soft ware , I guess if it was that good we'd be both still be using it. All of them tools never did much for me .

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I would like to critique some lyrics however I don't want to offend anyone because most of the time If I read the lyric on here I can see whats good about the lyric it inspires me however there maybe ways I would change it to improve it. However If I re-wrote parts of the lyrics saying ok this is how I would do it keep this change this etc would someone be happy me going through a whole lyric and making changes (while keeping within the boundaries of the theme, structure, rhythm and vocabulary of the author)?

I would go into why I made the changes and feel that this is your lyric and this is more to give the author ideas of how to improve or how it could look different?

I feel a little uncomfortable with doing this as something someone creates can be very personal. At the same time I would like to help anyone improve if I can because I have a passion for music and lyrics and I know I am of a certain slandered as expert industry people review my work and I have always had a rating of excellent for all lyrics submitted with my songs over the years (guild of international songwriters and composers).

If people think this is ore of a trampling elephant approach then maybe it would be best if I confine my crique to music. Any feedback on these thoughts would be welcome.

Edited by Darmin Deflern

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Kel    187

A critique is a personal thing, and we should all remember that. A critique is how I feel about the subject matter at hand. It is not a "what you've done wrong" essay, and shouldn't be. 

 

However, if you don't understand what the lyric is about, you should say that. If it is unclear, lacks clarity, confusing, preaching, contradictory... the writer needs to know all these things. If you feel this way, maybe others do to. The lyricist knows the back story, the reader/listener doesn't.

 

I try to cover, 1. What I think works, 2. What I think doesn't work and why, 3. A suggestion to go forward with.

 

I just about always remind the lyricist the content of the critique is only my opinion. 

 

I am in my fifties, and sometimes I don't get what some young writers are talking about. Sometimes it's a generational thing and for a young lyricist I haven't critiqued before I'll usually mention that too.

 

I find some subjects or genres I am not familiar with enough to offer critique on the content, but I can still talk about form, structure, rhythm and meter, rhyme etc. 

 

Cheers,

Kel

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Kel    187

I would like to critique some lyrics however I don't want to offend anyone because most of the time If I read the lyric on here I can see whats good about the lyric it inspires me however there maybe ways I would change it to improve it. However If I re-wrote parts of the lyrics saying ok this is how I would do it keep this change this etc would someone be happy me going through a whole lyric and making changes (while keeping within the boundaries of the theme, structure, rhythm and vocabulary of the author)?

I would go into why I made the changes and feel that this is your lyric and this is more to give the author ideas of how to improve or how it could look different?

I feel a little uncomfortable with doing this as something someone creates can be very personal. At the same time I would like to help anyone improve if I can because I have a passion for music and lyrics and I know I am of a certain slandered as expert industry people review my work and I have always had a rating of excellent for all lyrics submitted with my songs over the years (guild of international songwriters and composers).

If people think this is ore of a trampling elephant approach then maybe it would be best if I confine my crique to music. Any feedback on these thoughts would be welcome.

 

As I mentioned in my post above, I think as long as you offer your input as your opinion, offence wont be taken except by people who post their work for critique purely because they want to be told how good they are.

 

BTW you may want to edit the phrase "I know I am of a certain slandered..."

 

K

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Kel    187

W

"Do I like it" probably the best question , Yeah I've used that master writers soft ware , I guess if it was that good we'd be both still be using it. All of them tools never did much for me .

 

I use Masterwriter all the time. May I ask what you didn't like about it?

Kel

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snabbu    437

My personal thoughts are.

A list of questions is too simplistic an approach. Because a lot of the questions are dependant on genre.

You can not say here is a list to interrogate a lyric. Some genres have no story. Some genres should have metaphors some should certainly not.

Dreamy imagery songs do not have to make sense or be believable. The song writing process is a series of decisions. Those decisions are cumulative so that decision two is dependant on decision one and so on. The matrix of questions would be enormous. If you are looking at a country song yes you can ask a lot of the questions because that genre has as it's lyrical function realistic believable story telling. Other genres this is totally irrelevant.

The biggest tip I think is to ask yourself a question. What is the function these lyrics should perform in this song's genre what is their job of work.

For example approaching this work with a set of questions would create a very negative review.

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

When you're laying so close to me

There's no place I'd rather you be than with me-ee, uh

However if you ask yourself what is the job the lyric is supposed to be doing and is it doing it. The answer has to be yes.

This is an extreme example but it illustrates my point.

My biggest problem with critiques are some are just plain wrong advice given with best intention from lack of knowledge.

Some just platitudinous saying something is great when it's not. That to me is counter productive.

Questions I ask myself are amongst others.

Do I know what I'm talking about?

Am I too timid to tell the truth?

Would I put up 3k of my own hard earned to cut this when it's fixed?

Am I being as gentle as I can bearing tidings of an apparent lack of technical skill?

The last one is important because you cross over from business to hobby and any of you who have had any industry experience know

How little regard A&R has for one's feelings unless of course your last cut made them a lot of money.

So there is a great temptation to A&R speak because it's less effort. But that isn't going to help any one improve and you have to remember not to get annoyed because you have to keep repeating the same basic things. So a good question for me is how is my patience level today. If it's low better to say nothing.

Cheers

Gary

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john    1,420

My personal thoughts are.

A list of questions is too simplistic an approach. Because a lot of the questions are dependant on genre.

You can not say here is a list to interrogate a lyric. Some genres have no story. Some genres should have metaphors some should certainly not.

Dreamy imagery songs do not have to make sense or be believable. The song writing process is a series of decisions. Those decisions are cumulative so that decision two is dependant on decision one and so on. The matrix of questions would be enormous. If you are looking at a country song yes you can ask a lot of the questions because that genre has as it's lyrical function realistic believable story telling. Other genres this is totally irrelevant.

The biggest tip I think is to ask yourself a question. What is the function these lyrics should perform in this song's genre what is their job of work.

For example approaching this work with a set of questions would create a very negative review.

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

Ahaaw, I love to love you, baby

When you're laying so close to me

There's no place I'd rather you be than with me-ee, uh

However if you ask yourself what is the job the lyric is supposed to be doing and is it doing it. The answer has to be yes.

This is an extreme example but it illustrates my point.

My biggest problem with critiques are some are just plain wrong advice given with best intention from lack of knowledge.

Some just platitudinous saying something is great when it's not. That to me is counter productive.

Questions I ask myself are amongst others.

Do I know what I'm talking about?

Am I too timid to tell the truth?

Would I put up 3k of my own hard earned to cut this when it's fixed?

Am I being as gentle as I can bearing tidings of an apparent lack of technical skill?

The last one is important because you cross over from business to hobby and any of you who have had any industry experience know

How little regard A&R has for one's feelings unless of course your last cut made them a lot of money.

So there is a great temptation to A&R speak because it's less effort. But that isn't going to help any one improve and you have to remember not to get annoyed because you have to keep repeating the same basic things. So a good question for me is how is my patience level today. If it's low better to say nothing.

Cheers

Gary

 

 

Hi Gary

 

Just to follow up...

 

"Genre or style specific questions could be collected together within separate topics." or as stated in the article "Use a common set of questions and supplement them with song or style specific questions and measurements"

 

Importantly, it doesn't say the answer "yes" is right and "no" is wrong, simply that the observation be made as a prompt to look at the lyrics in different ways. "Is it night time?" Yes? No? The right answer depends on.... circumstance.

 

 

 

For example approaching this work with a set of questions would create a very negative review.

 

That entirely depends on the set of questions you use. It also depends on whether you ask the questions in isolation or with awareness of such things as genre or not, or ask them without the ability of the questioner to discern the appropriateness or value of a question. The questions are not intended as a substitute for intelligence, but as prompts to look at key aspects of lyrics. The answers in themselves do not offer a qualitative or definitive observation.

 

In reviewing my own article (almost 7 years after writing it) I can see a few improvements I could make. :) In looking at the questions, they could be improved upon.

 

I would also encourage members to have their own questions that they ask of lyrics. Indeed I would be more than happy if members did completely their own thing, just as long as they think about what the article covers and ways of giving better quality critiques.

 

 

You do make some perfectly valid and useful points regarding pulling punches, flattery, or lack of thought. However, regarding advice in critique, I would point out that critique is observation, analysis, suggestion and discussion... it is not intended to be a golden ruling announced from on high by someone who knows everything and is simply right. The important point is that critique is a discussion. True, many people do not realise this, which is often where offence creeps in, and it is right to highlight this to people and get them to improve not only their writing but also their critique skills. In fact I would most definitely discourage people from simply accepting, or simply dismissing observations.

 

For example a poorly thought out critique may offer a simple opinion. "I like it". It in itself is a poor quality comment (this is a comment, not a critique. A&R speak, as you put it), however if the writer asks the question  "Why do you like it?" or "What do you like about it?" they can develop the observations and increase the value of the comment to them. This is why critique is not just comments. It is a conversation, a discussion.

 

One of my reasons for putting together the common critique questions was not to dumb down or overly simplify, but to prompt, to get those offering critique to cover the various important aspects of a song and ask questions of it, not simply have an aspect pass by potentially unnoticed... because the main value comes in discussion... ie the bit that follows the questions. ie they are the start of the process, not the finish.

 

To view a critique as being "right", or not to include discussion of the observations and analysis and suggestions, is risky, if not arrogant on the part of the person offering the comments and suggestions if they approach critique in that fashion.

 

For clarity, "song plot" is not the story conveyed in the song.

 

While I agree the entire matrix of questions to cover all genres would be unworkable (Hence why I didn't even try) I did at least attempt to boil down some common questions, or at least largely common.

 

For example "is the title memorable" is an important question to ask. The value you place on the answer may vary, even dependent on genre, however it is a good idea to ask it common to many songs.

 

"Is the meter consistent?" is often important to ask, but whether the answer "yes" or "no" is the right one may well depend on genre. The point is that in performing a critique it is often a good idea to ask and to discuss it... especially as many songs are not genre specific.

 

Hopefully you agree that there are at least some questions you can ask before things diverge too much, and that  there are common elements that should be examined while the answer to the question need not always be the same.

 

It is the same in life.

 

"Should this person be trusted?" - a common and important question to ask. The answer will differ from person to person and depend on who is asking and the situation the question is related to. We have to trust our intelligence, experience, background knowledge and skills to come up with the appropriate answer.

 

 

 

 

What is the function these lyrics should perform in this song's genre?

 

A good question. You are right, it should be included. I often use it as Common, but omitted because it was genre related, which doesn't exactly help. Thanks for highlighting that Gary. However it is an important question to ask. I will have a think about how best to integrate it with the thrust of the article and questions. "Is it fit for purpose?" is how I often frame it, maybe that would do it.

 

 

Hopefully the article and questions got people to question how they perform a critique and how they value it. If not, it failed.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

 

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snabbu    437

Hi John

Sorry for misunderstanding the genre thing and the purpose of the questions.

I agree that someone is not always right. I think that is a very good point. Because there is sometimes no right, as decisions are subjective.

Sometimes your not sure because there's a couple of choices and both are a compromise. 

 

Although sometimes critiques are just plain incorrect. An example picked out of the air would be line length.

Line length is determined by the number of stressed syllables in a line, not the number of syllables. This is a fact not a subjective opinion.

Someone is critiqued and told they have uneven line lengths, because one line has 15 another 13 another 11

However they all have 8 stressed syllables in them. I.E. they are all the same length. 

But I guess you are going to get that. If I see I correct it because its going to lead the writer astray.

 

cheers

 

Gary

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john    1,420

Hi Gary

No need to say sorry. As a writer, and as a song writer, I am pleased that my articles and opinions are challenged. I seek to offer the best answer, not to be "right". Often there is no such thing as "right". Additionally, by discussing such points I get to discuss a topic I am passionate about, I get to learn some new perspectives from the discussion, and importantly, maybe, just maybe, some more of our members read the discussion and do the one big important part.... Think about the issues, themselves.

Regarding syllable count, you make a good point and express it well. I usually express that as a performance factor that the singer has a leeway in arranging syllables. Stressed syllables is a better way to express it. Yet again I would say it is genre dependent, and the emphasis is genre dependent. Some genres place a whole lot more importance on syllable adherence than others. It is also a "rule" that can be strategically broken to create a "rule breaking" hook... But you do have to be very careful with such hooks, they can just sound like poor song writing!

Either way, Gary, I am more than happy to discuss the topic, and have the opportunity to have one of my articles "critiqued"... Especially when the entire concept is under question. Good stuff!

Cheers

John

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KaGy    38

Hi John, Could you explain what you mean by

Is the plot a suitable vehicle for conveying the message?

Is there a pay-off?
Thanks :helpsmilie:

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snabbu    437

Hi

What I think he means is, the message is going to be in the chorus, the story in the verse. So is the story development idea giving more weight and meaning to the chorus with each verse. Is each verse applicable to the chorus does it make sense. The pay off issue is important because people are actually not that interested in you or your story, they are interested in themselves. So songs need to be about them even though it's you telling a story about what happened to you. One of the methods of having them relate to your story is the pay off technique. This is most usually done in the bridge but it can be done in the last verse or even in an altered chorus at the end of the song. As in "my girl Bill". The idea is that you have six questions to answer.

Who what where when and how and why. A lyric should contain most of these answers. The Why which is the pay off is essential because without a why there is no point to the song. Why are you telling me this story? What's in it for me. Then you deliver the why and we all go ahh now I get it.

This is the pay off.

Cheers

Gary

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Glenn Allen    25

How about "Would someone ever actually say this(out loud)?"

"does the words roll off the tongue well. in other words is it singable?"

 

We often forget that lyrics have to be singable.  That should typically include stressing syllables the same way you speak them.

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john    1,420

Good suggestions Glenn, thanks!

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arteg    7

Listeners get bored easily listening to songs with repetitive lyrics. If you wanted to become an effective songwriter, you need to expand your vocabulary and you can do this by reading. Use unique, suitable and captivating words you have learned in making your own personal composition. 

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Glenn Allen    25

While overuse of some words nay bore a listener ir show a lack of creativity, if you look at many of the most popular songs, there is a lot of lyrical repetition.

Think of the outro to Hey Jude or All You Need is Love.

In fact, throughout the decades lyrics popular songs have often had a very conversational lyrical style that breaks grammatic conventions. Think of jazz standard Is You Is Or Is You Ain't My Baby or Michael Jackson's Wanna Be Starting Something (which is very repetitive)

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Glenn Allen    25

People connect with music that is relatable to them- it resonates emotionally - As lyricists we do this through word choice.

Therefore we must use words that real people use. If you get too cerebral or linguistically complex you'll lose your readers and that is what will bore them

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john    1,420

Good contributions again Glenn

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TPistilli    53

I would like to critique some lyrics however I don't want to offend anyone because most of the time If I read the lyric on here I can see whats good about the lyric it inspires me however there maybe ways I would change it to improve it. However If I re-wrote parts of the lyrics saying ok this is how I would do it keep this change this etc would someone be happy me going through a whole lyric and making changes (while keeping within the boundaries of the theme, structure, rhythm and vocabulary of the author)?

I would go into why I made the changes and feel that this is your lyric and this is more to give the author ideas of how to improve or how it could look different?

I feel a little uncomfortable with doing this as something someone creates can be very personal. At the same time I would like to help anyone improve if I can because I have a passion for music and lyrics and I know I am of a certain slandered as expert industry people review my work and I have always had a rating of excellent for all lyrics submitted with my songs over the years (guild of international songwriters and composers).

If people think this is ore of a trampling elephant approach then maybe it would be best if I confine my crique to music. Any feedback on these thoughts would be welcome.

I, for one, love these kind of critiques.  But that might be because I am a rookie.  I have had some folks on here do exactly what you talk about and although I did not incorporate their changes, their explanation of why opened my perspective for future songs.  My main problems (and I'm sure other's also) is that it way too easy to get into the same way of writing.  Hearing (reading) other people's takes on my lyrics doesn't offend but helps me to be more creative and get out of 'my box'.  Thanks for posting and I would love to have you critique some of my songs/lyrics since you have a lot more experience than I. Just my 2 cents....

Tony

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HoboSage    1,935

My approach to critiquing a lyric, whether it's the lyric for a song or a bare lyric - is pretty simple.  I just tell folks what I think about the lyric, which might be very detailed or just in general, and, just as importantly, I tell them why I have those thoughts, and then I leave it up to therm to decide if my critique has any value for them and/or if they want to engage me in further discussion about it.  So, I guess the only question I really ask myself is why I think the way I do about the lyric.  I suppose my approach wouldn't make for a very interesting article about critiquing. :)

 

P.S.  And, by "them" - the "folks" I"m referring to - I don't just mean the author, but anyone who might read what I have to say.  I'm always mindful that, even though I'm directing my critique to a specific work, others who come across my critique might find something applicable to their own work.  I know I have that view in reading the critiques others make to works not my own.  Even if I'm not critiquing that work myself, I might find value in something someone says who does critique the work.  It happens all the time.  Knowing critiques are a public conversation and not just between me and the author also gives me a sense of self-value when I offer a critique, even if the author and every other person commenting thinks what I have to say is totally off base.  Someone out there in the cyber-universe reading the thread might find something of some value to them in what I had to say.  Hey, it's at least always a possibility, and I'll hang my reviewer's hat on that.  :)

Edited by HoboSage

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snabbu    437

I'd like to expand on John's second last question in his article because  I am seeing a lot of songs lately where this is an issue. Where the decisions the writer has made seem to reduce the lyric. The question was "Is the song form beneficial to the lyric?"

 

When we look at song form we think about verse chorus bridge etc. but in addition to that there is structural form with parts of a song. And it is this that I find myself questioning time after time. Because if the internal structure of the parts is a poor choice, then the content of the lyric is at odds with the structure of the lyric, then what you have is a lack of prosody and the lyric does not feel believable.

 

Structural decisions inform song form decisions due to the need for contrast, tension and release. If for example the decision is to have an unstable chorus then for contrast you need a stable verse and bridge. If for example you are going to put the reason for the song, the why, the payoff in the chorus, then the song form to the best advantage has to be verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus. There is nothing to be gained by including a bridge, as a bridge should contain additional colour for the chorus.  This will dilute the why in the chorus, and create lack of focus. Of course if it goes verse chorus verse chorus as I quite often see the song is over before it has really got going because the cat is out of the bag too early. 

 

These should be conscious decisions a writer makes and I don't think many are making those decisions and I think the reason is they don't know there are decisions to be made, and what those are, and what are the likely consequences for the form of the song. Therefor everything that follows is diminished. So if the questions were in order of importance that would need to be number one. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

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john    1,420
13 minutes ago, snabbu said:

I'd like to expand on John's second last question in his article because  I am seeing a lot of songs lately where this is an issue. Where the decisions the writer has made seem to reduce the lyric. The question was "Is the song form beneficial to the lyric?"

 

When we look at song form we think about verse chorus bridge etc. but in addition to that there is structural form with parts of a song. And it is this that I find myself questioning time after time. Because if the internal structure of the parts is a poor choice, then the content of the lyric is at odds with the structure of the lyric, then what you have is a lack of prosody and the lyric does not feel believable.

 

Structural decisions inform song form decisions due to the need for contrast, tension and release. If for example the decision is to have an unstable chorus then for contrast you need a stable verse and bridge. If for example you are going to put the reason for the song, the why, the payoff in the chorus, then the song form to the best advantage has to be verse, verse, chorus, verse, chorus. There is nothing to be gained by including a bridge, as a bridge should contain additional colour for the chorus.  This will dilute the why in the chorus, and create lack of focus. Of course if it goes verse chorus verse chorus as I quite often see the song is over before it has really got going because the cat is out of the bag too early. 

 

These should be conscious decisions a writer makes and I don't think many are making those decisions and I think the reason is they don't know there are decisions to be made, and what those are, and what are the likely consequences for the form of the song. Therefor everything that follows is diminished. So if the questions were in order of importance that would need to be number one. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

Hey Gary

 

Fantastic to have you building upon and responding to my article. It was written a while ago and is certainly far from comprehensive.

 

Just as a comment on your post... why not expand it a little and turn it into a member article for our member article section of the community? I don't think it needs much more than a couple of examples to illustrate your points and a little discussion of the specifics of your examples.

 

The only other aspect I think could do with some expansion is your explanation of the notion of the implications of song form choice and the internal parts of a song, and exactly why they may be at odds with each other.

 

You are a detai kind of guy, Gary, and I have no doubt you can contribute to member understanding beyond giving critiques. There are then two aspects of an article, or perhaps two articles, based on this topic... the choices facing the writer at time of writing, and the discussion perspectives during critique. Just a thought.

 

Nice one.

 

Cheers

 

John

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snabbu    437
1 minute ago, john said:

 

Hey Gary

 

Fantastic to have you building upon and responding to my article. It was written a while ago and is certainly far from comprehensive.

 

Just as a comment on your post... why not expand it a little and turn it into a member article for our member article section of the community? I don't think it needs much more than a couple of examples to illustrate your points and a little discussion of the specifics of your examples.

 

The only other aspect I think could do with some expansion is your explanation of the notion of the implications of song form choice and the internal parts of a song, and exactly why they may be at odds with each other.

 

You are a detai kind of guy, Gary, and I have no doubt you can contribute to member understanding beyond giving critiques. There are then two aspects of an article, or perhaps two articles, based on this topic... the choices facing the writer at time of writing, and the discussion perspectives during critique. Just a thought.

 

Nice one.

 

Cheers

 

John

What are you doing up it must be past your bed time:-)

I will go looking for the members article section and expand on it a bit in the next couple of days. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary 

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john    1,420
3 minutes ago, snabbu said:

What are you doing up it must be past your bed time:-)

I will go looking for the members article section and expand on it a bit in the next couple of days. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary 

 

lol I don't sleep much Gary due to pain. That's life!

 

here's a link to the member articles:

 

http://forums.songstuff.com/member/articles/

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