White Soul Black Heart

OK, not the best description, but its a sound I come across a lot and I'm sure it's one you've heard many times too. The intro to New Order's 60 mph is a good example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8n-7eYExMs This is synthier than some of the others but it would be pretty appropriate for what I'm trying to do. I'd like to know (not completely of course) what's going on, but if there's a VST that has a easy, pre-set kind of sound I'll look at that too. Thanks for any help.

I think all writers will find themselves writing cliches at some point or rehashing phrases. So I wouldn't feel too bad if it happens so long as you recognize it. I'd say they are more common in pop/indie music than not; at least the ideas that is. When I don't like lyrics I really let them marinate for a while. I think about them. Sing them. And when it comes time to alter them the idea/expression I intend to make has gained some clarity or another angle and I can work from there. I do this even for lyrics that I like initially but don't truly fit the scheme. I find this is also a good way to find/impart double or hidden meanings to the ideas in your lyrics. Also maybe you can bounce ideas/words off of other people, brainstorming in a way. I wrote lyrics once quite literally by asking a person to do some association with words I already had in mind. I got maybe two or three words from them and the story and the lyrics took off from there. But truly avoiding cliches is hard if you're not a master writer (which I don't believe many songwriters are).

Not necessarily who you sound like, but who you tend to imitate stylistically. I don't consider myself a singer at all. I sing on my tracks because it is convenient, but if there is one singer I'd say I go for it's Ian Curtis, more because of the restraint in many of his songs than anything. I have no emotional component to my voice whatsoever so not doing a lot works. There are also hints of Ian McCulloch. Like when he does that reach down thing to hit those deeper, growly notes. I know there's a thread that's about 'who do you sound like' but this is a little different.

Just happened to find these two articles pretty interesting. http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/the-reason-songs-have-choruses/284378/ http://aeon.co/magazine/altered-states/why-we-love-repetition-in-music/ I'm sure a lot of it you guys already knew or knew intuitively. ...And this part gave me a chuckle : ) Though I do wonder now when the tipping point comes...when repetition becomes borderline psychotic - like some kind of torture. And what about novelty

I won't be able to say anything fancy here but... This is just fantastic Really love the guitar work here - It's phenomenal and inspired, and the instrumentation is thrilling. It almost stings (In a good way of course) The only thing I will say is that the vocals are, for me, forgettable. Nothing against the singer of course. It's just that the music is so sharp. Is that you on lead guitar by the way?

Pink Floyd - Wish you Were Here I mean, come on! A man, on fire mind you, just coolly shaking hands with some guy like there's nothing else going on. It's just badass. Always liked this one. It's a reproduction of "A Basket of Roses" by Henri-Fantin Latour but it's so elegant, so dreamy.

Quick question... Are dream pop and shoegaze now considered to the be the same genre? I've always thought of dream pop as more ethereal, dreamy, (I guess it's in the name!) while shoegaze treads on the more raucous, jarring atmospheres.

So I've noticed that I've, somewhat unconsciously, given the few songs I've recorded different rather distinct endings. But I have to admit I couldn't describe each ending of songs from my favorite albums. The few I do remember I like because they're either a really bright exclamation point or, if it's a distinct outro, distorts or continues the story of the song. What's your mindset when crafting a song's ending? Do you feel its as important as say an intro or any other part of the song?

I liked/was aware of music I really liked by the middle of junior high school but I didn't truly get into music until I was offered a guitar class in my high school. I adored the teacher, who was a brilliant musician and truly genuine, funny guy, and through his class I was introduced to so many of the great artists from the 60's (Cream, Pink Floyd, The Beatles, and the group who would be one of my eternal favorites the Who) I absolutely fell in love with these artists' music, loved the guitar and eventually got my own. After that I somehow discovered Post-punk (likely via She Wants Revenge) and truelier got into music, and finally discovered the power, the majesty, the ethereal suave of the bass guitar. Strangely enough I've been around r&b, soul, funk all my life but never got in to those until much, much later. And even than I can only take it in limited doses. How I came to like the sullen voiced, aching of post-punk, goth and their related genres is a mystery to me.

What are some of your favorite nonsense lyrics? You know the ones that have a lovely melody, pretty flowing words, but all in all don't make a lick of sense no matter how hard you analyze them! I know it's hard to say what exactly "nonsense" is. After all anything can have some sort of latent meaning buried far beneath it. If you can't say that a certain song is nonsensical then I'll gladly like to see some of your silliest lyrics or lines shared. : ) Lennon of the Beatles might have been the king of nonsense/silly lyrics (I am the Walrus has to be the first that comes to mind) and they are still pure magic as songs. My favorite Come Together He roller coaster He got early warning He got muddy water He one Mojo filter He say one and one and one is three Got to be good looking Cause he's so hard to see With the kicker coming in that last line delivered with such suave and cool. And another favorite Dreams Never End from New Order My promise could be your fiend A given end to your dreams A simple movement or rhyme Could be the smallest of signs We'll never know what they are or care In it's escapable view There's no escape so few in fear Given a changing value This comes from an unlikely source in the band's bassist Peter Hook who is not exactly remembered as a songwriter, and definitely not a lyricist. It's more sombre, and collected than Come Together, but this line surprisingly captures everything New Order would be about, looking at it on a deeper level. It was their introduction to the world following the death of Ian Curtis and a final farewell to Joy Division. And unproblematically the thoughts are jarring, disconnected, the meaning rather skewed and yet it's perfect! (at least to me) There have to be plenty more out there. Some of the best are the nonsensical lines that come right along with more meaningful lines.

Looking back I would say both, but I don't believe I've ever thought of lyrics without their being some basic melody behind, so maybe the melody comes first... but it really is a "same time" kind of deal

I have many that stand out but there's a lyric from one song in particular that captivates me everytime. It's the chorus from a little known French new wave band Little Nemo in their song "Sandcastle" Turn your face to the spindrift See the waves rolling over the rocks Build your sandcastle in the rain It will stand with a great touch of faith When I listen to the song and hear the bass and drum churn like the waters he describes, and the plea the singer makes in this bleak scene, I feel emotions, angst, but the entirety of those emotions turns to a bleary, but veritable hope in the last two lines. And the imagery, just in those few lines, is as moving as any I've heard in a song. I'm immediately reminded of Friedrich's "Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog"; staring out into a vast, beautiful tumult. The band's dreamy, poetical sort of imagery in all of their songs is something I intend to work toward in my songwriting. God music is awesome...

I'm sorry...I've never liked pinstriped suits (Jack Skellington being the major exception) but to each their own of course

For those of you who love the art of the album, and those of you who have actually made, or even dreamt of making an album what would be the perfect order for you? (if any of course) Do you go for conceptual links between the tracks? Musical links (like the ones that blend into the next song), Do you put the best songs on either end or somewhere inbetween? is there an emotional component of the tracks? And so on... Focusing on the beginning and end, I think the Who nailed album order with Quadrophrenia. Starting with an ambient track (I am the Sea) that explodes into a rocker (The Real Me). There are many strong tracks inbetween, some more introspective but advancing the stories and personalities therein, and then ending with an instrumental, and then the highly emotional, almost lament of Love Reign O'er Me....I'm particularly fond of albums ending with a strong dramatic or ambient/dreamy track. The metal band Rammstein has a good album philosophy, limiting it to 11 tracks, starting with a dancy or dramatic track but putting the best songs/title song around the middle, and ending with two or so emotional/moodier tracks. Ideally my album would start with something heavy, dramatic, enough to pull the listener in right away (Don't Fall by the Chameleons from their debut is a good example) change the pace about midway with an instrumental and some moody tracks, and end with the most despairing/bleak if it's one of the stronger songs...something to make the listener ponder things and the album's message. Also it shouldn't be too long, 8 to 10 songs would be perfect. (Not that there aren't thrilling long albums)

So I've been searching lately for new/contemporary artists who are actually making not just quality music but interesting music, something that bends genres, alters expectations, etc. We've all heard it a million and one times how today's music is worse than whatever came out last year, or the year before, or the year before. Quite frankly I'm sick of hearing it, not because it's wrong (I tend to agree with the sentiment) but because there is good, interesting music being put out everyday. I invite you guys to post your favorite contemporary artists, preferably those who've started only recently, not older artists who are still making music and are still together. And do feel free to post clips! : ) My list off the top of my head Violens - Probably the best new band in my opinion in terms of uniqueness, stimulation. Their latest album was a bit disappointing, but they've an amazing interlayed, interplaying brand of Indie-Electronica. White Lies - Endlessly compared to 80's post punk/new wave greats, but while their music does recall a certain New Wave spirit they do a fine job balancing the more adventurous indie rock stylings with some of that 80's romanticism. Latest album was quite nice if a little tried at times. Cold Cave - OK, this guy's song "Confetti", is (for me) probably the best song released in the last ten years, if not longer. The album it's on is a bit of a mixed bag, but his latest EP/Single "God Made the World" is almost as engaging and romantic as Confetti, so I'll definitely be looking out for more music from this guy. Warpaint - I haven't been following up on these girls like I should have, but I've heard on the radio that they have a new album out, and their last is more than good enough to have stayed with me. A heavy attack...ethereal, dreamy but funky with great rhythyms, and also luscious harmonies. Others: Soviet Soviet Chvrches Savages - Some of the best post-punk revival music to date. The guitar work is just perfect. Franz Ferdinand - Didn't really care for these guys, but I caught a performance on TV and I have to say they're really good musicians. Music isn't always interesting but they more than have the chops Lorde - Not exactly my genre, and most of the songs of her album sounded the same, but there is distinct quality to her music and image. It's definitely interesting.