Diary of the unexplained - Personal Blog

*giving nothing away* - *rubs chin*

 

Intewesting. Vewy, vewy intewesting!

I thought we agreed I was going to be the sexy one?

39 minutes ago, john said:

*giving nothing away* - *rubs chin*

 

Intewesting. Vewy, vewy intewesting!

 

Off to a good start. Great 😅
 

7 minutes ago, McnaughtonPark said:

I thought we agreed I was going to be the sexy one?

 

Common don't be like that, baby cakes. We both know that Walter White IS the epitome of sexiness 💘🤙

Bruh 😂

 

I'll pass the gauntlet to @McnaughtonPark albeit in a macho heroic kinda way..

 

That comment really isn't helping the sausage fest comment now is it.. 😄

>> When @GregB narrates he sounds like he's trying to seduce someone.

Well, big boy, I now know that you want me to use some Corrective Syntax on your ass ...

>> Q:  Dear God your boring.

Ooooh, you KNOW that should be Dear God, you're boring.

 

You TEASE, you!  😈

 

 

1 hour ago, GregB said:

>> When @GregB narrates he sounds like he's trying to seduce someone.

Well, big boy, I now know that you want me to use some Corrective Syntax on your ass ...

>> Q:  Dear God your boring.

Ooooh, you KNOW that should be Dear God, you're boring.

 

You TEASE, you!  😈

 

 

 

Ay, Dios mio! Its like you've read my mind, papito! 💘 Grammatical corrections are hot. I'll bring the wheel chair, you bring the prune juice 🤙

8 hours ago, Mahesh said:

That comment really isn't helping the sausage fest comment now is it.. 😄

 

You're right. Its not helping it. Its improving it! 😂👍

@john@GregB@McnaughtonPark@Mahesh.

 

I would like to point out something. So far nobody really shared their actual opinions on any of the topics that were presented here, which, mind you, is absolutely fine. I kinda expected that 👍 It has however given me an idea I'd like to run by you! 😅👍

 

Unfortunately, since this entry is grounded in reality, it has prevented me from going into full parody mode. I've spent most of my time censoring things and mixing and matching between different responses. Even the questions themselves are a mix of several different people. Simply put: It would have been funnier if my hand's weren't 'tied'.

 

There have also been many questions I've decided not to include at all, as I felt like they (the questions I've secluded) were too inappropriate and promoted toxicity. My blog is meant to be a source of entertainment for members and also for myself. Its not a platform for people to settle scores. I felt like it should be said.

 

Anyhoo. Back to my idea! 😶

 

As a way to free my hands creatively, would any of you like to participate in the next entry? The same goes to anybody else who'd like to take part 😅 If you're interested: Please contact me via PM and I will explain the format in more detail. And if not, that's cool too! I'll understand and simply dish out the rest of the content as is 👍

Edited November 6 by VoiceEx

I was just waiting to see what the speculation was before I swooped in to answer your questions as best I can. ooooh the suspense!

 

Or not, if your prefer speculating!

8 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

So far nobody really shared their actual opinions on any of the topics that were presented here

 

You listed questions that you answered yourself ... I thought that was a structural tool to aid your 'glance askance' piece.   I personally view BLOGs as a writer's outlet for ideas rather than a discussion.

 

Greg

15 hours ago, GregB said:

You listed questions that you answered yourself ... I thought that was a structural tool to aid your 'glance askance' piece.   I personally view BLOGs as a writer's outlet for ideas rather than a discussion.

 

Its true that a Blog can indeed be used an as outlet for ideas. However, that's not the only thing it can be used for. To give a small example. Not only can a blog be used to spark discussions, but also, If I wanted, I could let someone I trust borrow my Blog, while I would borrow theirs. Would doing something like that serve a purpose? It could 🤭

17 hours ago, john said:

I was just waiting to see what the speculation was before I swooped in to answer your questions as best I can. ooooh the suspense!

 

Or not, if your prefer speculating!

 

As I've mentioned in the post, these are not my questions. Not to mention, the people that would have something to say, probably won't. Would I like to see your answers to these questions? Yeah it could be interesting The stage is yours 👍

Edited November 7 by VoiceEx

On 11/7/2024 at 1:47 PM, VoiceEx said:

these are not my questions

 

Sorry, just a turn of phrase. You were obsfucating and re-writing in order to protect the members who prefer not to be known and for entertainment. In that sense they were your version of the questions, nothing more. I think I wrote my reply at 3am my time, so I wasn’t exactly thinking I might tread on your toes.

 

Ok, to questions.

 

What to expect. Some changes. Some things stay the same.

 

As has been said by me from the get go we will be maintaining a free community, but we will be adding in products. Running this place is not cheap. It is not a small site, and it doesn’t run on cheap servers. It has to be paid for somehow.

 

I want Songstuff to be self sufficient so that it is not dependent on me paying for it, but also not dependent on me, personally, for all the effort I go to, to make sure it works as a site.

 

The one constant is change. If we do nothing change still happens because our members change. The world around Songstuff changes.

 

I would like to highlight that the community and the staff both largely want the same things. A great community for songwriters, music producers and artists.

 

Audience

 

We plan to target artists, songwriters, music producers and singers as our primary and secondary target audiences. The features Songstuff offers and our promo to those audiences will appeal to more than these audiences, but those are the core.

 

It should be said that I don’t agree with the black and white nature of our audience or our options.

 

For example, amateur or pro. I know quite a lot of semi-pros. I know pros who want to step back and amateurs who want to become semi-pros or pros, and a whole load of people who, for now, are happy as they are. Songstuff won’t be forcing anyone go in any direction. As we make offers, they are all options.

 

It should be said, we also have a breadth of boards. if people want to talk about building their fanbase, we have space! Lol

 

The biggest change will be that not everything we make available, will be available for free. We will add new free content, but we will also add paid content. I see no reason to choose.

 

Look at songwriters. We are all, or nearly all, passionate about writing songs. This is true for amateurs and semipros or pros. They all want demos of their songs. Given access to musicians etc they can all get demos made. For some, that is it, job done. I don’t see why those songwriters would not want to mingle with songwriters who want to do something more with their songs. Especially any that happen to also be artists themselves. For those that want artists to perform their songs they either work with someone, they pitch their songs, or they have someone pitch their songs for them. If someone want to learn about pitching their songs on Songstuff does that matter? Does that matter if they learn for free or buy a course or pay a coach, or pay for a service on or off Songstuff?

 

The same goes for producers, artists, singers… they all share almost all their creative journey. As mentioned elsewhere they even share a lot of their marketing and promotion journey.

 

Songstuff will not become a haven for pros. Sure, some will be here, we already have some as members. But there are more amateurs than semi-pros. More semi-pros than pros. Songstuff selling products has no bearing on this. Our large amount of free content and our free community mean that we are likely to be attractive to amateurs.

 

I know plenty of songwriters that buy books. Plenty that attend Berklee courses, free and paid. Does it matter if an individual songwriter plans to be a pro? Even if we were to target a course at specifically those pros, does it matter? Is there not already plenty of content on Songstuff for amateurs, semipros and pros alike? I will say this, a course only for pros wouldn’t sell much. There are relatively speaking very few pros and most use 3rd parties not courses.

 

Collectively we share far more than sets us apart. We share much of our journeys.

 

We all seem to agree that we would like the community to be busier than it is. So the reality is, we do want to change (because people coming here will change it, even a small bit). People seem to like it here, but the number one reason they don’t always hang out here, is because it isn’t busy enough… which in turn makes it less busy. To be busier we need to bring in more people AND retain more active people.

 

That’s one thing about music. Different disciplines need different disciplines. Lyricists need composers, artists need songs, producers need artists and so on. Diversity helps. Songstuff used to be very diverse. Increased diversity will help Songstuff.

 

Financially, I am also relying upon us having a strong community via diversity. The site earns via diverse income streams. After a great deal of research we decided to spread bet. That allows us to work with a broad user base and not to put all our eggs in one basket.

 

It should be said that paid forums tend to be more active, in part because they are paid for. It breeds activity, even if it is simply people wanting to get value for their money. To the contrary, many people take “free” for granted. I guess that mindset is something along the lines of they didn’t have to do anything to get it, and the perception is they don’t need to do anything to keep it around.

 

Forums that are product forums, like say, Fruity Loops, are busier, as long as the product itself remains popular. So companies diversify their portfolios.

 

We have ads right now, but so far we haven’t really pushed them.

 

So, how do we plan to move ahead?

 

We are launching a simple subscriber member level. It will largely serve amateurs and semipros. not that it will not have things that appeal to pros, but again, relatively speaking pros are much fewer in number.

 

The subscription will be the next step, in the very near future.

 

Secondly, we plan to add workshops, courses and maybe even mentoring. Initial courses will be in singing and music marketing, closely followed by songwriting and hopefully not long after that, music production. Where appropriate we’ll augment our own skills and experience with courses, modules and course elements delivered by others.

 

There is more, but it’s late and well that is at least the basics. No digging a hole and chucking our members in. No patio out back with a hump in the middle.

 

I am sure there are questions. Honestly, I’m not scary. Talk to me people.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

On 11/17/2024 at 9:01 AM, john said:

Sorry, just a turn of phrase. You were obsfucating and re-writing in order to protect the members who prefer not to be known and for entertainment. In that sense they were your version of the questions, nothing more. I think I wrote my reply at 3am my time, so I wasn’t exactly thinking I might tread on your toes.

 

Yeah I was beginning to wonder what's up. Thank you for clarifying and also thank you for providing such a wonderful and lengthy response 😮👌 I'm gonna Re-Tag the others because I think that they should see this too! @Mahesh@Peggy@McnaughtonPark@GregB. Plus hey more comments 😅👍

 

On 11/17/2024 at 9:01 AM, john said:

Ok, to questions.

 

Not that I'm complaining, but, for the sake of getting more feedback, perhaps such important information should also be shared on the open forum. I mean, there's more enough stuff here for several ongoing discussions.

 

On 11/17/2024 at 9:01 AM, john said:

What to expect. Some changes. Some things stay the same.

 

As has been said by me from the get go we will be maintaining a free community, but we will be adding in products. Running this place is not cheap. It is not a small site, and it doesn’t run on cheap servers. It has to be paid for somehow.

 

I want Songstuff to be self sufficient so that it is not dependent on me paying for it, but also not dependent on me, personally, for all the effort I go to, to make sure it works as a site.

 

The one constant is change. If we do nothing change still happens because our members change. The world around Songstuff changes.

 

I would like to highlight that the community and the staff both largely want the same things. A great community for songwriters, music producers and artists.

 

Audience

 

We plan to target artists, songwriters, music producers and singers as our primary and secondary target audiences. The features Songstuff offers and our promo to those audiences will appeal to more than these audiences, but those are the core.

 

It should be said that I don’t agree with the black and white nature of our audience or our options.

 

For example, amateur or pro. I know quite a lot of semi-pros. I know pros who want to step back and amateurs who want to become semi-pros or pros, and a whole load of people who, for now, are happy as they are. Songstuff won’t be forcing anyone go in any direction. As we make offers, they are all options.

 

It should be said, we also have a breadth of boards. if people want to talk about building their fanbase, we have space! Lol

 

The biggest change will be that not everything we make available, will be available for free. We will add new free content, but we will also add paid content. I see no reason to choose.

 

Look at songwriters. We are all, or nearly all, passionate about writing songs. This is true for amateurs and semipros or pros. They all want demos of their songs. Given access to musicians etc they can all get demos made. For some, that is it, job done. I don’t see why those songwriters would not want to mingle with songwriters who want to do something more with their songs. Especially any that happen to also be artists themselves. For those that want artists to perform their songs they either work with someone, they pitch their songs, or they have someone pitch their songs for them. If someone want to learn about pitching their songs on Songstuff does that matter? Does that matter if they learn for free or buy a course or pay a coach, or pay for a service on or off Songstuff?

 

The same goes for producers, artists, singers… they all share almost all their creative journey. As mentioned elsewhere they even share a lot of their marketing and promotion journey.

 

Songstuff will not become a haven for pros. Sure, some will be here, we already have some as members. But there are more amateurs than semi-pros. More semi-pros than pros. Songstuff selling products has no bearing on this. Our large amount of free content and our free community mean that we are likely to be attractive to amateurs.

 

I know plenty of songwriters that buy books. Plenty that attend Berklee courses, free and paid. Does it matter if an individual songwriter plans to be a pro? Even if we were to target a course at specifically those pros, does it matter? Is there not already plenty of content on Songstuff for amateurs, semipros and pros alike? I will say this, a course only for pros wouldn’t sell much. There are relatively speaking very few pros and most use 3rd parties not courses.

 

Collectively we share far more than sets us apart. We share much of our journeys.

 

We all seem to agree that we would like the community to be busier than it is. So the reality is, we do want to change (because people coming here will change it, even a small bit). People seem to like it here, but the number one reason they don’t always hang out here, is because it isn’t busy enough… which in turn makes it less busy. To be busier we need to bring in more people AND retain more active people.

 

That’s one thing about music. Different disciplines need different disciplines. Lyricists need composers, artists need songs, producers need artists and so on. Diversity helps. Songstuff used to be very diverse. Increased diversity will help Songstuff.

 

Financially, I am also relying upon us having a strong community via diversity. The site earns via diverse income streams. After a great deal of research we decided to spread bet. That allows us to work with a broad user base and not to put all our eggs in one basket.

 

It should be said that paid forums tend to be more active, in part because they are paid for. It breeds activity, even if it is simply people wanting to get value for their money. To the contrary, many people take “free” for granted. I guess that mindset is something along the lines of they didn’t have to do anything to get it, and the perception is they don’t need to do anything to keep it around.

 

Forums that are product forums, like say, Fruity Loops, are busier, as long as the product itself remains popular. So companies diversify their portfolios.

 

We have ads right now, but so far we haven’t really pushed them.

 

So, how do we plan to move ahead?

 

We are launching a simple subscriber member level. It will largely serve amateurs and semipros. not that it will not have things that appeal to pros, but again, relatively speaking pros are much fewer in number.

 

The subscription will be the next step, in the very near future.

 

Secondly, we plan to add workshops, courses and maybe even mentoring. Initial courses will be in singing and music marketing, closely followed by songwriting and hopefully not long after that, music production. Where appropriate we’ll augment our own skills and experience with courses, modules and course elements delivered by others.

 

There is more, but it’s late and well that is at least the basics. No digging a hole and chucking our members in. No patio out back with a hump in the middle.

 

I am sure there are questions. Honestly, I’m not scary. Talk to me people.

 

If there's one thing I learned from doing this post, is that, its not that people are afraid of you. In fact, in many cases it was the opposite. And while its true that some of the questions I've encountered were rooted in disappointment, the vast majority of questions however, stemmed from a place of respect and genuine concern for the future of Songstuff.

 

In other words:

Most people here police themselves. Its one of the cool things about this place! But one of the "side effects" of that, is that they also keep things to themselves. It makes sense.

 

For me this of course means free content out the wazoo 😅 I want the "Another Side to My Experience" series to serve as a sort of dynamic "reflection" around topics that might not get discussed openly. And I intend for these entries to take all kinds of forms, for entertainment purposes. Granted, this form of content might not be for everyone. Not to mention, I won't always explain myself, as that element might also play a part in the experience.

 

So lets touch on everything you've said so far about your plans moving forward.

 

Personally, I'm very excited to see what you guys cooked up for us! However, I also think that its too early for me, or anyone for that matter, to ask any meaningful questions and expect to see results. After all, none of the products have been released yet. There's no long term costumer feedback either to examine. As such, I personally choose to be patient and reserve judgment.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have complete faith in you guys. You have both the knowledge and means to do great things, and I've said it many times over! However, I'm also not an agreeable puppet that just nods "yes" to everything. I expect you guys to deliver. Not because you said that you can. But rather, because I KNOW that you can 👍

This is all going to look very strange to members who’ve been around a long while.  They’re going to check back in and,( hey, can I charge people to look at my profile page?) Sorry, they’re going to check back in and not recognize the place.  

Is the announcement and change all going to happen at once or will new features be added more gradually?

As far as lyric writing tools, there are already so many ways to learn more about writing on Songstuff but what I’ve always found to be the best guide were melodies and music.  Allistair and I worked on some collaborations where he had recorded guitar and sang a melody, or hummed it, and that was really the best.  It taught me so much about meter and scansion, editing to fit, editing for emotions and where changes were needed.  I might be willing to pay for access to that kind of tool.  Heck, lessons in lyric writing could be explained pretty well as well.  Well, I’m looking forward to seeing what comes next.  
 

peace 

 

 

On 11/17/2024 at 5:01 PM, john said:

Secondly, we plan to add workshops, courses and maybe even mentoring. Initial courses will be in singing and music marketing, closely followed by songwriting and hopefully not long after that, music production. Where appropriate we’ll augment our own skills and experience with courses, modules and course elements delivered by others.

 

John, I've 'chatted' with you directly about such things but (I hope you don't mind) I'll expand it to this discussion group.

I (personal opinion and mixed metaphors as always) think you are diluting your already-Sisyphean efforts trying to crystallise a chimera/mirage. 

 

The net is already bursting at the seams with how-to's, tutorials, classes, workshops, etc..   Within that existing and ever-expanding universe, I can easily find content that is tailored to my every requirement ... presenters I vibe with, speed of delivery, clarity of material, relevant level/depth of expertise, specific skills, specific hardware/software/versions, etc., etc..   

 

Anything to do with software, like DAWs, is soon rendered irrelevant as new features are released and features and screens layouts change accordingly.   Creating such material is NOT for the faint hearted nor for those without a long-term commitment to keep up.  This is as true for how-to documents as well as videos. 

 

On the other side of the coin, providing such 'services' on this site would also quickly become a huge time and emotional burden for Songstuff Site Crew ... you will need to vet material for relevance and quality before making it available on the site.  And THEN regularly vet things to ensure they remain pertinent.  Imagine the awkwardness having to tell contributors that their offerings do not meet your requirements, or advising them what needs to change before acceptance. 

 

Will there be yet another "Critique" board .... for training materials? 

 

I'm not doubting the hugely laudable intention of 'training', but is it worth the Herculean admin? 

 

Why not do a Poll on "do you want ..."?  If you did, what's your measure for a response that supports ... 50% of Members saysing YES??  Most people say YES to something that's being offered, but God knows the 'membership' is hardly frothing at the mouth to have their say on anything anywhere else  

 

Greg

 

 

10 hours ago, McnaughtonPark said:

This is all going to look very strange to members who’ve been around a long while.  They’re going to check back in and,( hey, can I charge people to look at my profile page?) Sorry, they’re going to check back in and not recognize the place.  

Is the announcement and change all going to happen at once or will new features be added more gradually?

As far as lyric writing tools, there are already so many ways to learn more about writing on Songstuff but what I’ve always found to be the best guide were melodies and music.  Allistair and I worked on some collaborations where he had recorded guitar and sang a melody, or hummed it, and that was really the best.  It taught me so much about meter and scansion, editing to fit, editing for emotions and where changes were needed.  I might be willing to pay for access to that kind of tool.  Heck, lessons in lyric writing could be explained pretty well as well.  Well, I’m looking forward to seeing what comes next.  
 

peace 

 

 

 

Hi MP

 

Im not sure I understand your comment about charging to view profile pages. Just now we are looking at the site being able to earn money at the very least to cover the costs of the site. Members will be able to create content in the free areas of the board just as they do now. The fact that the site offers something over and above in order to help meet it’s costs is a good thing.

 

On members checking back in, members who are not here, not actively using the site… do we keep the site frozen in stone in order that it feels familiar to these members who actively choose to hang around in other places, on the off-chance someone comes back and feels happy that nothing has changed? How long is a reasonable time to keep things the way they like it to be? Is it right that people who don’t really want to be here get to dictate the current site features, or the future site features?

 

Apart from anything else, there are reasons why such members do not hang around on Songstuff. What about the members that don’t hang around here precisely because it hasn’t changed?

 

The number 1 reason mentioned for people moving on is a lack of activity, a lack of active members. The solution is obviously to build our active members. That means retaining members. That means getting members to want to post more. That means finding more new members that will stick… and the solution to all of those things is having a collection of features people want… that is both what current members want but also what old members want and prospective new members.

 

If we retain the current features, that should largely keep current members happy, because they are here and enjoying those features right now.

 

We can try to attract older members who are no longer actively here. Firstly we can have a problem reaching them, because not everybody signs up for our newsletter and that is our only real way of putting any message in front of them after they stop actively visiting the site. Secondly, they have already decided not to be here. We plainly have to change what we do or how we do it, and have to win them over when in all honesty, even when free they do not value what they get here enough to warrant being active here. Like it or not, that is a fundamental contributor to building the community where we target past active members.

 

When we target new members we have a fairly fresh page. Ideally we want to find people who are passionate about making music, about connecting with other musicians and who actively want to talk about it.

 

For me, the group who already have those attributes are music creators who already have purpose. That could be wanting to write 30 songs, it could be wanting to release an album for their family and friends, it could be releasing music and building a career. Such people actively want to learn and talk to their peers.

 

One main alternative is to pitch the site to people who don’t want to do such things. For such people I find there is less urgency, less drive and yes for some less passion. Less need to talk about it, often because there is less focus on their music. Maybe there once was, but not now. To target such people I think perpetuates the problem we have just now, by adding new members with a lower interest in talking to their peers.

 

The other main alternative is to try to actively persuade people whose purpose and drive is not music, to care enough to become members and post, and tbh that sounds like a lot of unrewarding, thankless effort for likely a poor result.

 

People who want to achieve something with their music, that first group, are more likely to achieve results, because they have focus. The achievements of those people is far more likely to inspire other members towards activity than any amount of the staff trying to persuade them that effort is worth the investment of time or money.

 

To me, a community that wants to participate is far more healthy than any community that has to be persuaded to communicate.

 

From another perspective MP, imagine you are me. Why would you be running Songstuff? Why would you be putting your time and money into Songstuff? To preserve a community for people who used to be here but don’t find it ticks their boxes enough to stay around, or to find people who largely have the same interests, and have a purpose… plus make sure that what we offer meets the needs of such people?

 

If there are old members with purpose, who we struggle to reach, drop back, I would hope that our attempts to improve what we offer that would actually help such members, would pleasantly surprise them. I they see enthusiasm that would help. If they see people being helped to achieve their purpose, free and paid, surely that adds to incentive to stay about? For those with no purpose, I don’t think it matters a toss if that help is there or not. So, what do we have to lose?

 

As far as tools go, different people learn in different ways. Playing with other musicians, collaborating, books, articles and tutorials, 1 to 1 lessons, group lessons, video courses… different people are different. We already provide some of those. In some areas we are looking to add some others. I don’t think it is a bad thing for our members to have options.

 

7 hours ago, GregB said:

 

John, I've 'chatted' with you directly about such things but (I hope you don't mind) I'll expand it to this discussion group.

I (personal opinion and mixed metaphors as always) think you are diluting your already-Sisyphean efforts trying to crystallise a chimera/mirage. 

 

The net is already bursting at the seams with how-to's, tutorials, classes, workshops, etc..   Within that existing and ever-expanding universe, I can easily find content that is tailored to my every requirement ... presenters I vibe with, speed of delivery, clarity of material, relevant level/depth of expertise, specific skills, specific hardware/software/versions, etc., etc..   

 

Anything to do with software, like DAWs, is soon rendered irrelevant as new features are released and features and screens layouts change accordingly.   Creating such material is NOT for the faint hearted nor for those without a long-term commitment to keep up.  This is as true for how-to documents as well as videos. 

 

On the other side of the coin, providing such 'services' on this site would also quickly become a huge time and emotional burden for Songstuff Site Crew ... you will need to vet material for relevance and quality before making it available on the site.  And THEN regularly vet things to ensure they remain pertinent.  Imagine the awkwardness having to tell contributors that their offerings do not meet your requirements, or advising them what needs to change before acceptance. 

 

Will there be yet another "Critique" board .... for training materials? 

 

I'm not doubting the hugely laudable intention of 'training', but is it worth the Herculean admin? 

 

Why not do a Poll on "do you want ..."?  If you did, what's your measure for a response that supports ... 50% of Members saysing YES??  Most people say YES to something that's being offered, but God knows the 'membership' is hardly frothing at the mouth to have their say on anything anywhere else  

 

Greg

 

 

 

Hi Greg

 

No problem. I know you have said this, but I don’t agree with you on some of what you say, and I think our situation is not quite as you see it.

 

For example, our articles and tutorials have been part of Songstuff right from the start. They are mostly educational and reference materials. They draw in more traffic than our forums currently do (this has changed back and forwards over time) and they remain a big recruiter for people joining the boards.

 

The staff still create educational content. New articles, blog posts, social media posts. Mostly to attract people because people don’t respond well to relentless promotion and paid Ads Judah to Songstuff’s budget.

 

Video remains the best method of engagement on the internet. Certainly from a discovery perspective. It also remains a great way to educate. If you look at most of Songstuff’s articles, they focus on foundational principles, more than specific platforms. I wholeheartedly agree that creating DAW specific content would be cumbersome unless it overlaps with staff tool usage, even then it would be repetitive, and hard work as you mention.

 

My point is, we have already created a lot of material (much you do not know about), so creating video content to improve, add or replace our current content is not such a big ask, but it would still be valuable and it still acts as a great recruitment and promotion tool for our site. We’d like to add some video artists/songwriter/producer features as we also discussed, interviews, plus some streamed discussion on our YouTube channel.

 

Some of this is necessary as promotion. Either we do free guerrilla promotion, we pay for promotion, or we don’t promote. The last would kill the community.

 

As for member generated content… I intended our current approach. Members generate content and comment on each other’s content. We don’t curate it unless it is contributing to our library or blog. There we tend to build relationships with contributors…. It isn’t a free for all. I do not expect members to suddenly become content creators for Songstuff any more than now. Sure, some might do that, but they are few, not many.

 

So no, I don’t see a need for a training critique board. 

 

As far as there already being plenty of info out there, yer there is. Not all of it good or accurate. Yes you might be able to google anything, but believe me, a lot of info is not available online. The majority of info is not online or anywhere near it. There might be enough to satisfy you, but maybe your need for detailed info is not needed to the same degree as others? Maybe you are happy with getting info, rather than getting the best of info? Without guidance otherwise, perhaps you might not know the difference? At least in all topic areas.

 

Looking at the majority of videos posted, they are not posted by highly experienced people. Some are. They are not necessarily the best, or the best educators.

 

Looking at the top people providing production, marketing, singing videos… they all provide free content plus a range of paid content. Even in the music arena alone pricing starts at free, then typically $7, $27, $47, $97, $297, $497, $997, $1997, and $4997. What exactly they charge for varies greatly from lessons, to mentoring, articles to video courses.

 

So, do you really think you are getting everything such tutors can give you, for free on YouTube? If so, what are they charging for? (It varies at price point and delivery method/product)

 

Does information have a shelf life? Absolutely. can you get good, general advice for free? Yes. You also get a lot of bad advice too. Interestingly, when people get info for free they rarely action it. The more they pay for info, the more likely they action it and get successful results. Money aside, how they consume info also has a huge bearing on finishing what they start and on retention.

 

There’s more, but it’s very late. My point is that it is not as absolute as you see it. Your points are very worthy of consideration, and taking account of as we move forwards, but taking everything into account I don’t think we can afford not to do video. Considering the draw of our education content, we would be crazy not to offer such content in video format.

 

 

On a side note, I'm personally very excited to be doing online vocal workshops in the near future and also vocal courses / video lessons over the next year thru Songstuff.

Since the pandemic & downfall of live gigs, earning my bread & butter has been solely thru the vocal training that I do for semi pro and pro singers in the local indie and film community. I've also been involved in multiple film & music projects over the past few years as a vocal superviser which is so much fun.  I really want to bring all this experience & knowledge to this community and help them with their singing & in their future musical projects. And by community I mean those who are already members here & those who will join thru their interests and our efforts.

One of the reasons I've not been able to put as much time as I would personally like to for Songstuff is because of the hours taken by these sessions that earn me the money to pay my bills & take care of my family.

It would be amazing to do all of that right here in this community in a way that truly makes a difference.

I will add that I will be doing polls relating to content, however the number of responding members for polls is currently very low. If we can get participation up it would help a lot.

 

There is another part to it. We have to think about what appeals to current active members (ideally all members, but that can’t happen), but also consider what appeals to prospective new members. Considering our new member targeting criteria I imagine there will be an appetite for consuming our info via video.

 

One other consideration will be the connection between livestream, video and webinar/workshops. Doing this via YouTube is actually integrated with our forums. It is a feature we don’t currently use.

 

YouTube activity is going to happen, the question here is how much. For the kind of “to camera” videos we will be doing, rolling forwards it is probably easier to shoot a video and then use a transcription app to create a text based version of any content. Faster than actually typing out a text based version of an article. I’ve also worked out a way to create video using a couple of apps, that would allow the creation of multi-source videos (multiple cameras + desktop capture + existing videos, images and audio) by live switching sources during recording. It takes a little practice but that saves storage of a lot of extra footage plus the separate edit cycle (Using OBS Studio - I know you like your software plus hardware switches for easy access or from a mobile phone app).

 

The site has to make enough to cover costs. It has limited means. We can’t guarantee that I will always have time, money or health to do what I do.

 

There are loads of YouTubers growing channels but also a load of people earning a very good living from providing courses who are also YouTubers. I’ll be quite happy just to cover costs. In the future we might want to hire 3rd parties occasionally or to pay for improvements in software or hosting. With budget loads of options open up. The community potentially has a lot to gain if we have a decent budget!

 

Video and courses are another way to consume the information we already have written up (what is public really is the tip of an iceberg). Writing, gathering and collating is the hard part and that is largely already done.

 

My thought is that we can at least try it. If it proves too much, we can always knock it on the head.

 

 

More generally on contacting members who are not active, or not active just now… we have their email addresses, but under data laws we cannot contact them. We have an opt-in system for non-critical email contact. We take breaching that instruction seriously and there are significant consequences if we don’t.

6 hours ago, john said:

 

Hi MP

 

Im not sure I understand your comment about charging to view profile pages. Just now we are looking at the site being able to earn money at the very least to cover the costs of the site. Members will be able to create content in the free areas of the board just as they do now. The fact that the site offers something over and above in order to help meet it’s costs is a good thing.

 

On members checking back in, members who are not here, not actively using the site… do we keep the site frozen in stone in order that it feels familiar to these members who actively choose to hang around in other places, on the off-chance someone comes back and feels happy that nothing has changed? How long is a reasonable time to keep things the way they like it to be? Is it right that people who don’t really want to be here get to dictate the current site features, or the future site features?

 

Apart from anything else, there are reasons why such members do not hang around on Songstuff. What about the members that don’t hang around here precisely because it hasn’t changed?

 

The number 1 reason mentioned for people moving on is a lack of activity, a lack of active members. The solution is obviously to build our active members. That means retaining members. That means getting members to want to post more. That means finding more new members that will stick… and the solution to all of those things is having a collection of features people want… that is both what current members want but also what old members want and prospective new members.

 

If we retain the current features, that should largely keep current members happy, because they are here and enjoying those features right now.

 

We can try to attract older members who are no longer actively here. Firstly we can have a problem reaching them, because not everybody signs up for our newsletter and that is our only real way of putting any message in front of them after they stop actively visiting the site. Secondly, they have already decided not to be here. We plainly have to change what we do or how we do it, and have to win them over when in all honesty, even when free they do not value what they get here enough to warrant being active here. Like it or not, that is a fundamental contributor to building the community where we target past active members.

 

When we target new members we have a fairly fresh page. Ideally we want to find people who are passionate about making music, about connecting with other musicians and who actively want to talk about it.

 

For me, the group who already have those attributes are music creators who already have purpose. That could be wanting to write 30 songs, it could be wanting to release an album for their family and friends, it could be releasing music and building a career. Such people actively want to learn and talk to their peers.

 

One main alternative is to pitch the site to people who don’t want to do such things. For such people I find there is less urgency, less drive and yes for some less passion. Less need to talk about it, often because there is less focus on their music. Maybe there once was, but not now. To target such people I think perpetuates the problem we have just now, by adding new members with a lower interest in talking to their peers.

 

The other main alternative is to try to actively persuade people whose purpose and drive is not music, to care enough to become members and post, and tbh that sounds like a lot of unrewarding, thankless effort for likely a poor result.

 

People who want to achieve something with their music, that first group, are more likely to achieve results, because they have focus. The achievements of those people is far more likely to inspire other members towards activity than any amount of the staff trying to persuade them that effort is worth the investment of time or money.

 

To me, a community that wants to participate is far more healthy than any community that has to be persuaded to communicate.

 

From another perspective MP, imagine you are me. Why would you be running Songstuff? Why would you be putting your time and money into Songstuff? To preserve a community for people who used to be here but don’t find it ticks their boxes enough to stay around, or to find people who largely have the same interests, and have a purpose… plus make sure that what we offer meets the needs of such people?

 

If there are old members with purpose, who we struggle to reach, drop back, I would hope that our attempts to improve what we offer that would actually help such members, would pleasantly surprise them. I they see enthusiasm that would help. If they see people being helped to achieve their purpose, free and paid, surely that adds to incentive to stay about? For those with no purpose, I don’t think it matters a toss if that help is there or not. So, what do we have to lose?

 

As far as tools go, different people learn in different ways. Playing with other musicians, collaborating, books, articles and tutorials, 1 to 1 lessons, group lessons, video courses… different people are different. We already provide some of those. In some areas we are looking to add some others. I don’t think it is a bad thing for our members to have options.

 

Hey John, the comment on charging people to view my profile was a joke.  My head thinking in the background while I’m trying to write so I included a  drifty thought right in the middle of what I was saying.  And the mention about old members coming back and seeing all the change wasn’t a point I was making about why not to do it, it was just me imagining what it’s all going to look like.  
 

but, such has been my experience on the boards, what some of you do so well, express yourself without what you say being taken the wrong way, I guess I don’t do well.  I don’t know why either.  I am direct, this is true and I’m aware of that but I don’t know how to fizzle it down.  And I also realize that it’s not all me, readers also have a part to play in it.  
 

you know what I could use, an AI bot, just a face or bust, that would appear and read what I write as if it were me reading my post to the listener.  Click on the post and Tom would appear and casually read, with a dry sense of humor and sarcasm, my latest lyric or comment.  And occasionally it would nice if my bot would appear randomly throughout the site to give advice on grammar while others are typing, and I’d like to win an Oscar.  
 

p.s.  I’m looking forward to the changes, you have my trust and admiration.

Edited November 21 by McnaughtonPark

While I may not understand WHY other people do things ... I certainly applaud and 100% support their commitment to the actual DO-ing of anything positive.  So few people in this world DO anything.   

 

Despite zero 'fans' I still write, record, podcast, and interact in these Forums.  Who knows what this says about my psychology 😕 ... but it is what it is.

 

Let me know if I can help with anything at the admin/technical level (NOT the content).

 

Cheers,

Greg 👍

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Mahesh said:

also vocal courses / video lessons

 

Hi Mahesh. 

 

You have a REALLY great voice and style of delivery.  SO unfair!     

 

If considering doing videos about vocal technique and self-improvement , it would be good to show the progress of a student/protoge over a few months so that the viewer can see and hear how your personal guidance (without 'giving away' your tricks) has actually helped them.  This 'proof of concept' would likely encourage a lot of 'possibles' to cross the line and pay for your online coaching and courses.

 

Greg

5 minutes ago, GregB said:

While I may not understand WHY other people do things ... I certainly applaud and 100% support their commitment to the actual DO-ing of anything positive.  So few people in this world DO anything.   

 

Despite zero 'fans' I still write, record, podcast, and interact in these Forums.  Who knows what this says about my psychology 😕 ... but it is what it is.

 

Let me know if I can help with anything at the admin/technical level (NOT the content).

 

Cheers,

Greg 👍

 

 

 

 

I am sure you could build fans, but it’s not really been your mission.

 

Thanks for your offer of help! There will be some admin around contacting interviewees and podcast guests and preparing them, in some cases the back and forth of contracts, the taking in of submissions. What we can handle with automation we will. We have the tool for the file submissions in place. So there’s process activities needing worked through, along with identifying automation and tools to minimise manual admin. It’s a task that needs doing if you are up for it? Or if you are up for part(s) of it? Don’t worry about saying no