Donna

hee hee. I've thought more about contests than entered (songwriting or otherwise). I'd had really bad experiences w/ a couple when a youngster. It messed w/ my head esp. when this one didn't choose a little be-bop quartet who absolutely smoked the outfit I was in...I couldn't believe the judges, it made me certain it wasn't about talent at all, but about the most commercial thing which could be shoved down everyman's throat. Maybe like other things, it must be entered into w/ detachment. I was never so happy to see that Songstuff had a contest right when I needed some reason beyond myself to start again - write and record something new. I don't mind competeing, either. I had that feeling like - it'd be considered seriously which is the best one can realistically hope for. It was the BEST experience! Regardless of outcome. I kinda thought the G Am. Contest could be OK, too, but maybe it was only that I figured I should be grown up enough to accept a "professional" critique (and pay for it via the entrance fee). I don't know. I've seen weird things even in my children's school talent auditions reminiscent of the be-bop guys getting tanked. I guess if one's counting on the exposure a contest can give, well CAN it really give exposure number one, but number two, it'll probably not turn out like that. Yet I do think that auditioning (so to speak) in new situations can be valuable.

Not even Songstuff's?

Thanks for answering, john.

Yeah and how much, ATom?

Fascinating - I've heard all this before, I guess I'm hooked. More homework...

Wow - that's a big sea change for you re: no engineering for now. Go for it! Your brother's wrong, I noticed it, too...but, getting some space from the vivid stress portrait you paint, might give a bit more innocence - or detachment. Or just plain fun.

Gentlemen, the MP3 is up for the contest. If the below links haven't pasted right, go to song review board under the Christmas Contest thread. Last Train To Bethlehem © Donna Fellows 2005 http://forums.songstuff.com/index.php?showtopic=5447 Wow! I couldn't have done it - with this deadline - without y'all. Thank you!

Do you mean a recording of someone famous? Or could it be someone local whose stuff I know (production less professional than commercial Sony label artist or whoever putting it out).

Yeah, good advice. My beloved's Christmas gift to me shall be monitors! But I need to figure out how to hook them up (studying the portastudio manual...for the life of me, I don't think I EVER hooked speakers up to it.) (Hmmph: if anyone should be drinking and shopping, it is I)!

Yes, that's what I need: the truth from flat monitors. Re: the 4 yr old: either it's a great idea or I lapsed into a moment of insanity.

Funny, I can only imagaine people jumping at the chance to produce. Your view on it is reality, I think. Gives me something new to consider. I would really like to see a poll about the side effect you mention. Been there! Trying not to be there...

Hey thanks. It s**ked, btw - too fast, blah blah blah. But I had a good time and nothing's wasted, it's more practice under the belt. I was happy w/ the drum and vocal sound , + the un-equ'd ('cept a tiny bit) mix is respectable when I played it over two different cassette deck speakers . I'm suspecting that getting monitors will help me gain in remoteness. Now that I'm properly tuned I have to re-learn some of the singing, but therefore can hit most of the notes so that's alright. Instead of going overhead, I positioned the mic kind of between the toms, but back aways (and I marked the spot the mic aimed for, so I'd remember it). For vocals thought about fashioning a chamber in another room w/ a made-on-the-spot screen but opted to be comfy in the regular little room. (Our 4 yr old - the one who steals my coffee and will converse all night - asked me this eve "can I learn how to make the music?" meaning the portastudio!) She is such an unusual child that my wheels are seriously thinking of taking her up on it, (see what I mean - the charm and authority of that little one has me feeling like she's OFFERING me something. What's crazy is that she probably IS!) The acoustic guitar is a nightmare (but I don't care)!

Hey John. So...you picked the name because of singing (+ took vocal lessons), well I guess it was appropo to talk about the voice then. Wow, lessons on all those instruments! Fantastic, your old teacher Sam. Isn't it funny how those who helped "the legends" aren't THAT hard to track down? I've my own version (beloved drum teacher, but not the fame of Gerry Mulligan!) and adored this teacher who took me on as another daughter... Got to take 2 of my young un's to an orchestra last week. They get so used to "seeing" stuff...how different (boring!) to look up and only see the orchestra (no cartoon/game, etc). 'Cept they weren't bored always and RIGHT when they were having a time of it, the sinfonia went into a LONG medley from the Sound of Music. It was great to see them making the connection somehow: hey, this song isn't something you just turn a button on to hear, or for backround to a movie. These people (and there were many women players - probably all moms) make the music! There was an 11 yr old soloist and boy was he a virtuoso! I thought "it starts right here!" 'cause you never know what's going to stick w/ a little child. And the conductor spoke to some of us parents afterward - this man is on a crusade to get any children he can to partake of real live musicians playing music.

John - maybe one reason I bring up singing is your user name! Did you take lessons, play in band, orchestra, both? As an adult, are there such groups to play with? As far as scoring: do it! No matter or not if you think it'll be heard. That's great. Have you manually written any scores? It reminds me of Finn, that kind of composing, he says he has many themes, and I think chooses from these to build a song. I played alto and tenor for a while as a child but my bottom lip couldn't hack it. Being in or around woodwind and esp. string sections, in my case, it was like osmosis. You don't think it gets in you at the time, but it does. Since you were focusing (it sounds like), a lot must've gotten in you. That clipping thing - I don't have any suggestion but turn away or back up from the mic, lol. One song, I was practically in the next room, didn't matter. Kept the piercing chorus, it fit the song, but wouldn't on O Holy Night! I wonder if you'd like this book I'm reading "Inside Tracks" (I'm sure the engineers like Bong and Prometheus would). It's engineer/producers speaking about recording, but many of these are musicians or writers, too. About every few pages, the engineer/producer in question brings up performance, sincerity (re: O Holy Night - dry but sincere). Very few (if any) emphasize production per se. It's been a great confirmation to do what I think in the first place: try to get a good track singing or drumming or whatever-wise. Which is not what I expected - I wanted the technicals. But they're artists, just artistic in knowing rooms and micing and boards as well.

- Prometheus thank goodness for baritones is what I say to that. It is hard to detach from vocals - why is that so? I'm convinced that if the courage to work on the voice can be mustered, it will improve. We begin learning other things easier, like a guitar. I like your singing on "Night"; did you double the lead? And, is there a lyric page? Is your speaking voice on "Night" the range it is on the recording, or did you change that, too? Sorry if badgering - I'm interested in stuff like that. Both my siblings and children mess around a lot with their voices! Re: "Night" the pattern of full band, breakdown interests me, some ppl are able to do that. Did you write it like that, envision that from the beginning? Oh - wanted to add this (wonder what Finn would think?): sometimes if I can't/don't feel like practicing singing, I will talk. Had a vocal teacher long ago and he had me try to - not sing through the nose, but sort of. Had me imagine and also go thru motions of biting an apple, to overemphasize a quality I cannot explain and have not really talked about in my life (til I get here). Anyway, I sometimes monitor speaking voice and go for that apple-biting sound, or I lift it when tired. I think it helps and doesn't freak people out like singing all the time can. (sorry John B. for hijack)

Right , best deal- I'll bet the Alesis are nice. Hate the thought of plugging in one more thing (power amp). Our electrical's kinda old. Hey, wish me luck - I'm re-recording today (that is if nothing else goes wrong and school callin' for me to pick up another ailing child). I got new strings and wanted to put them on a few days ago, not the night before the session. They're Ernie Ball strings this time and I like them very much - so far. I found "A" at 440 hz online. It sunk in the other day - CONCERT A - hey, I know that frequency! No tuner's/ pitchfork/pitchpipes here presently. I can usually remember it just right, only what I remember is an A#! So now that's solved, too, and I saved the link. Been experimenting with micing the kit, baby steps, can't recall how I used to do it. Supercool, the 246 manual will be mine next week! Lucky, I remember stuff in print. Recall should increase once I begin reading it.

But first (or last) - John, I'd also been out of the loop re: singing - just keeping my fingers wet via a once a week choir (if that). Now I've gotta lose some of this...un-pop thing I've picked up. Liked hearing your backround, I'll try Chopin (and check out Debussey (sp) - I'm sure I've ripped that man off in voicings or something, his stuff is so nice0. Give the voice time - even w/ your ear being lost a bit (my ears lost something, too). My voice is beginning to open up a little again - never say never! I'm waiting for the Christman Song contest "Start" date to post an MP3. I want to re-record it again - it is the first MP3 I'll have. Got old stuff on 4-track, but am a beggar right now having someone else do the copying from analogue to digital (plus I need a host site). One thing at a time. I've a large family to care for and so everything's taking time. But I'm very happy at all the steps and STEADY progress I've made since being here. Like got my Christmas "suite" (and it was a suite) pared writing- wise down to 45-rpm version, and in record time! More progress here from writing to recording to computer stuff learning all these new things, too, than in the past 9 years. At times, much rather work on music and conversation w/ y'all - but the babies need me and not bragging it's just reality, there's no replacement for me.

Extremely pressed for time, but Prometheus thank you for that bit about resting the ears. I was going to start a thread asking for tips on ear care. Nowigottagoanddoamillionthings...

Glad it's getting solved!

No worries, Bongstuff.

Little update pasted from the PC board: _________________________________ ** I'm listening to the MP3 [that Husband figured out how to convert from CD] and why I do NOT know, but the tempo and pitch are as they were originally! I may just send this one, it's adequate - in fact, I'm almost PLEASED with the mix! I think it'll work.

Hey Hari! Thanks for the info - it'll be reference tho cause I've no sound card. Also, I still have no idea how to connect the computer to the 4-track when they're three rooms away from each other! At least they're on the same storey of our house! **But PS: I'm listening to the MP3 and why I do NOT know, but the tempo and pitch are as they were originally! I may just send this one, it's adequate - in fact, I'm almost PLEASED! Good luck solving the pc freeze. That is very sad news about HH...

The silence has almost convinced me I'd better try to round up some monitors at once.

Prometheus, even with hatred or aversion, it can be possible to detach in order to give the song its voice. Or partly maybe it's that Lennon (or yourself) didn't like to sing, but I think that's a separate issue.

John, thanks for the details. I'm jealous...two tracks each for strings and winds! I've a few "keyboard" songs from the 80's and I am not a keyboard player. But I could learn some chords and "drum" an ok bass line on thhe keys. I'm crazy for strings if the song calls for it. Anyway, I think I would've done the instruments in that same order/amt as you did. Does your backround include orchestra, or interest in film/classical music? How did you come to use flute/sax + strings (just the ease of having this available via the synthesizer?). You misunderstand what I said re: doubling the vox. I'm a great fan of unison vocals, what I commentded on was there seemed too much of an "effect" sound to it. Unison vocals are a great way to give power to the sound and a good skill for the one singing, to double their part. It forces one to listen and imitate, another tool and discipline. Anyway, have you tried easing back on the amt of that doubling effect? Or maybe it's an all or nothing deal? As far as the punching in and out...I hope you don't mind me asking, but is it a question of breath or chops as to why you must punch in/out frequently? The frequency of having to do this probably accounts for some lack of stability communicating the singing and the end result itself. But from what I heard I get the feeling that improvement is deifinitely possible, if the will and desire are there to work on it. I get nervous when I have to punch any part a lot (even tho I'll foget the part in a week!) When I do it, I want to PLAY it. Attitude has a lot to do with the performance and I've even had my good buddy I've known long, when he recored me, turn off all the lights and not look at me when I was singing a part, cause I got too shy or something and I couldn't PLAY. It may sound funny to others, but it's easy to be shy with one's own self while recording alone. Esp. with singing. I remember it well, esp. those first attempts listening to my voice, I HATED it, it took like a YEAR to not cringe. But something wonderful happened after a time (though my family spouts some very good voices - not singers per se, but beautiful speaking voices and ability to mimic and change the spoken voice, so genes are a part of it). After about a year of mortification an ability was gained to begin manipulating that voice, and the first manipulation was to try to stop the stuff which sounded bad! But I still cringe, voice is so intimate. Maybe choirs have it best: lots of support in singers all around and a conductor to focus upon.