Carillon and other turnkey PC recording systems

[cutofmeat]

I'm considering purchasing a Carillon turnkey system with the PC, Sonar and the M-audio 2496 PCI soundcard.  Does anyone have any experience with Carillon and/or one of their systems?  If so, what was your experience?

What does everyone think about the idea of purchasing from these folks, as opposed to having a local computer guy build one according to the same type of specs as Carillon uses?  I'm in the southern US; they're up north.  I've been unable to find a local computer guy who is familiar with the specific issues posed by music recording PCs.  

Carillon presumably sells systems  which they've already troubleshot.  If I encounter problems, I can go to one company, and that company should be accountable for problems, regardless of whether the fault is with the PC, software, or soundcard.  The local computer guy may be tempted to blame the problem on the software or the soundcard, when he really doesn't have the answer.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[john]

Hey

I bought a Carillon about two years ago. I had some intial problems with the fan and a few other bits, and the system ended up being returned to base. The system was fixed and has remained stable ever since.

I have to say honestly that the system is really good, but as to how much of that is due to Carillon, I have my doubts. I expected a bit more after sales service too. I've received one update on the sample library (6 cds), but that's it.

I also expected to be contacted about a viable upgrade path, but yet again, nothing.

Most of the good features I am happy with are down to me doing my homework when I ordered the system.

On a good note, it's good to have people who know about sound and computers on the end of a phone. It's good that they run audio diagnostics. They present a nice tidy pack with all your software, and all the software is installed and working.

One other point, this system, running windows 98 2nd edition has crashed twice in those 2 years, and that's pretty good for windows 98.

It does look nice though...

Cheers

John

[cutofmeat]

John,

Thanks for the very helpful reply.  What recording software and soundcard came with the computer?

Also, I notice from their website that they seem to have a user forum which only customers can see.  Do you see many complaints about not getting problems fixed?

Thanks,

Jerry

[davlan]

Hi Meat

I've got one too but am having some horrendous problems with it. It's now back at the shop for the second time. I might just be unlucky but there is growing evidence of some sloppiness with this company. However I am aware that I got mine from the London shop and that things may be different in North America. Check out some of the other companies that provide a similar service first. And get them to install everything for you.

Dave

[john]

Mr Meat

I bought the Carillon with 2 Creamware cards, Pulsar 2 and a PowerSampler. The cards are excellent. No problems there. I bought Sonar from them 2, also no real problems.

To be honest I haven't been on their site for ages, but I'll swing by an check it out.

Cheers

John

[cutofmeat]

Dave,

Thanks for the response.  Sorry to hear of your problems.  

Jerry

[john]

Hi

So what have you decided to do?

Cheers

John

[cutofmeat]

I plan to look into whether there is a difference in the production of the UK machines versus the US machines.  There is a post within the last 2 months in which the author said he had a Carillon system, had problems, returned it to base, and was planning to write a review, after he gave the company a chance to remedy the problem.

[davlan]

Hi meat

Yeah, it was probably me. My machine is back and so far it seems to be working wonderfully. But what a journey to get there. A review is being written and hopefully will be posted soon.

The machine is quite a nuclear sub with a 3Ghz processor. For about ten seconds it was the fastest PC alive. So was a bit dismayed when the new Mac G5 was announced. The spec sound very impressive. Ever thought about a Mac? I've spent thousands on PC software so it's not really an option for me. However I have noticed a certain prejudice within the media industry towards Mac's. They get uncomfortable if you don't use them. Any thoughts?

Cheers

Dave

[cutofmeat]

Dave,

Thanks for asking and for the update.  I have thought about Mac and actually have not completely ruled it out.  

here's my deal:  I've used Cakewalk since the early 90's.  I got Pro Audio 6 in the mid 90's.  I've put a lot of hours in and I've learned a lot.  I have a lot of unfinished songs.  I recently began "taking them to the next level."  I'm not into mixing, mastering, and tweaking.  I recently took my best song and worked with a guy who uses Sonar.  We took what I'd done, kept a lot, recorded some tracks from scratch.  He mixed and mastered.  I'm very happy with the outcome.

I know all the advantages of Mac.  Reliability.  Stability.  Compatibility between LE and the Digidesign interface. I've looked into Pro Tools LE.  I know Pro Tools is industry standard.  I'd love to be compliant.  

But I'm not trying to set the world on fire, not running a studio.  I'm just trying to make music to share it with a few folks.  

I'd eat up a lot of time in converting my Cakewalk stuff.  Although, I have to say that most of my audio stuff, I'd want to re-record.  The audio tracks are mostly dummy tracks -- riffs copied and pasted together as a way of writing the song.

I have some PC plug-ins which I like.  Pro Tools LE seems to have minimal plug-ins.  I also am concerned about the unknown Mac-Windows issues in burning CDs, copying CDs, and other possible limitations once the songs are complete.

I also use MIDI initially for drums and keyboard parts.  Because I'm not a drummer and keyboardist.  I can get ideas down.  But I rely on Midi editing heavily.  Pro Tools limited midi editing capabilities disappoint me.  So, I'd have to get a midi sequencing software, too.  A Mac/Pro Tools rig is already more expensive than a comparable PC/Sonar system. The Mac midi software adds more expense.  

That all being said, I have endured lots and lots of frustration with Cakewalk and PCs.  It's hard to put a value on having more confidence in stability and compatibility.  I've learned that part of the problem has been my PCs -- the 1st, Compaq; the 2nd, a Dell.  I've done a lot of research and know better than that now.

I'm actually glad you asked.  Perhaps I should try to get a little better feel about "issues of burning CDs, copying CDs, and other possible limitations once the songs are complete in dealing with a PC- dominated world."  Maybe those issues aren't so daunting.  

Regards,

Jerry

[MatthewDFeltes]

Hi I hate this computer it has nothing but problems. I hope they really fix it this time. Here is a letter I sent them today telling my story! I'll have to post it in sections. I acually would lov ethe computer if it worked.

Dear Carillon Audio,

I would like to tell you my story detailing my experiences with the Carillon Audio Recording computer I bought from you in the summer 2002.

I will first take you back to the time that I first discover Carillon Audio. I was looking to start compiling equipment to build a home recording studio. I wanted it to be cutting edge, s far as a home studio can be on a $10,000 budget. I was reading a very informative publication about Carillon Audio Recording computers. I believe it was in EQ magazine or maybe Keyboard magazine. Anyway the article spoke of many things some of which were the ease of using a carillon Audio computer, how much there staff was willing to help a person use there Carillon Audio computer, how they tailor made each and everyone to the needs of there customers, how it was used in very large studio around the world, how reliable it was to use every day at your studio, how it was amazingly quiet and how it was mounted in a rack case which made it very easy to be portable and convent to take it on the road.

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[MatthewDFeltes]

Well that sold me for sure, I wanted more than anything before. Why, well all those befits were exactly what I was needing. There was a phone number to call and a web site to visit. I visited the web site with excitement, and later the next day I called Carillon Audio to get some advise on what I may need to accomplice my goal. That goal again was, I wanted it to be cutting edge, as far as a home studio can be on a $10,000 budget. Now I only had about $4000 to spend on the computer, audio interface, and software so that’s what I told the salesman. I said I wanted it to be all the things in that magazine article, he laughed and said no problem. He asked me what I would be using it for and what did I think I needed. I said well I want to build a recording studio at my home and I want the computer to be fast, reliable, and very portable. He was very nice and helpful. He helped me pick out a computer system. That ended up coasting $4000.

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[MatthewDFeltes]

Ok I bought it trusting the experts in all their advice they gave me in what to pick out. The arrival day was getting close and boy was I exited, I felt like a little boy again. I was 26 so may be I was a little boy. Well it came later 1 week or so later than they promised me on the phone when I paid for it. I was really depressed about that. I said to myself it will be worth the wait. I finally took delivery of my brand new shiny Carillon Audio Recording Workstation. Wow it looked cool, it was heavy (that’s good) and it was mine. FINALLY!  I plugged it all in and I was very careful to follow all of the directions. IT WAS SO EASY! That impressed me a lot. I opened all the programs to check them all out that was fun. But Windows Media Player didn’t open very easy. When I did get it opened and playing a CD, well it crashed my computer. Oh well so I restarted it. It’s a fluke. I tried burning a CD next because that would be fun right? Well the CD burner did work at all ether. So I continued on to use other programs and found the same type of things happening. The programs would work for a while and then freeze up the computer or just crash it. Well now I was getting a little depressed, my $4000 Carillon Audio Recording Workstation was not working like advertised. You can imagine the disappointment I was experiencing. All my friends were there, and they thought that $4000 was too much to spend on a computer. I assured them that carillon Audio was worth it. I was laughed at!

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[MatthewDFeltes]

Well after experiencing these problems for a few days I called Carillon’s superior tech support. They helped me as much as they could over the phone. They said “things like this are not normal and I am sorry, we will get it all working great ASAP”. Well I did not have access to the internet at this time in my life so I was told it would be a lot easier to help me if I did. Well I did not. They seemed somewhat reluctant to go onto the Internet for me and download these supposed fixes I needed to get. I thought that was there job. I told them I know you would have to mail them to me on CD but that is ok and fine. They wouldn’t do that. They told, or encouraged me strongly to go use the Internet at a friends house or something. Well it’s kind of hard to humble your self to tell your friends that you need to use there internet for a $4000 dollar computer that is not working after 2 days of having it, after saying how cool it was going to be for weeks. I also just didn’t know anyone at the time that had the Internet. Finally they said maybe it was too hot in my rack enclosure. Well it was built to be there by carillon so why would that be the case. I didn’t even have any other equipment at the time around it to make it hotter than it should be. I really didn’t understand!!!

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[MatthewDFeltes]

Well I had to send it back to Carillon for fixing. We couldn’t do it all over the phone apparently. That meant mailing it back to the East coast. That would take awhile. Man I was really disappointed. I paid all this money for this computer and I won’t be able to use it or even so it for another month or so.

It was that long and more…I got my computer back and it was doing the same type of things after about 2 months or so. We did the phone thing again, that got nowhere fast for weeks on end. Still not able to use my computer like advertised. They were saying things like, maybe you need to change from Windows 98SE to Windows XP. I said why you install Windows 98SE was that wrong. No they said, we just think it would run better. Oh I said. So shouldn’t you have installed that the first time? No response. They were also asking me question like, why did you get SCUSI hard drive in your computer. I said I was told that they were the fastest drives to have and are what serious guys use. I trusted the sales man. You see there were not more than two people that new much about SCUSI systems and Pro Tools LE (my main recording program) They said things like you should have just gotten IDE hard drives that would have been great. I was disheartened by the inconsistency of my recommendations. Again I was made to look like a fool that didn’t know anything. That was hard to deal with because I came to carillon because I didn’t know anything about this stuff. They are the experts not me. I thought….. So I had to send it back to Carillon again for them to fix it once and for all said Gil. I asked for a completely new computer and was told no we never do that. Bummed out for sure.

[MatthewDFeltes]

I waited through Christmas for the promise of a newly reconfigured computer at around the New Year. Well the dates promised came and went once again. I now had my first clients scheduled to record. This was my chance to make a name for myself. Well I had to push there recording date back, back, and back again. Carillon was still not finished with the computer. I looked like I was unorganized and unprofessional. That is a bad thing to be perceived as in a professional environment. Once again I was made to look like a fool.

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[MatthewDFeltes]

I finally got the computer………..It wouldn’t even start up. It plugged into the wall fine enough and that’s all it did. Oh it did two more things, it made me MAD and blinked a little cursor in the left had corner of the screen. I called Carillon and they sent me through some steps of repair that I had done before so I was getting quit efficient at it. That seemed to work. Nope a few days later it was doing bad things again. Crash, Freeze, wouldn’t bur CDs. All the things that it had from the start and a few more. So I sent it back, they fixed it again. They said they would do all the work for free and upgrade my processor for free and give me Windows XP for free oh and some really cool sample CDs called Reel Drums ( that was great). FREE?? I hope so. They did not feel quite that way. But they did what they said none the less. I received it and it worked well, except for the fact that I did not have a CD burning program to burn a CD with installed on my computer any more. Guess that will fix that problem right. Well I decided to look for the Nero software that I sent back with the computer. I couldn’t find it. They must have kept it. That made me mad once again. I got some Burning software and mad due with out telling them about it. I was tired of it all and fed up. It now had been like 6 months at least that I was dealing with these computer problems.

I wanted so much for it all to end. Can you blame me.

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[MatthewDFeltes]

Good news the computer did now burn CDs, it did not crash because of heat, and ran somewhat smoothly. I had to use the recovery discs a few times more. That was a bummer but nothing I couldn’t handle. I was an expert at that by now.

Now about a year later after recording for many clients I had a problem.

On Thursday 4-6-04 my computer was acting really weird. It was taking along time to open programs that were really simple ones and it was taking 7 full minutes to open Pro Tools. That only used to take less than a minute. Right then I know something was wrong. I went into the add and remove programs section of the computer and performaed a very routine automatic repair done by ProTools. I was thinking that Pro Tools was maybe the problem. That didn’t speed anything up, and if I thought it was hard to open Pro Tools up. Well opening a Pro Tools recording session took just as long if not longer.

My once fast computer was slower than the APPLE in 3rd grade. I was pissed.

[MatthewDFeltes]

Now let me explain something right here, I don’t use pirated programs or hacked programs or do anything out of the ordinary with my computer. I think it should work normally also, or at least as advertised.

Back to my attempt at fixing the problem. My computer is working now so slow I can’t work at all with it.

1.      I tried the repair function in add and remove programs (ProTools)

2.      I started and restarted my computed

3.      I removed power from it over night

4.      I defragmented all my drives( I do that regularly)

5.      I tried to use the recovery discs for XP, they only gave me gray or black screens (5 times)

6.      I tried the recover disc for 98 SE, they did not work at all ether (5 times)

7.      I went to bed upset.

8.      I tried to use the recovery for XP one more time; it worked and went through the 2-disc set like normal. It even rebooted the computer like normal.

Now I had faith to do all this stuff because I have 2 other hard drives with all of my audio sessions on them. I have it this way because if something happens to the operating system and I have to use the recovery discs I won’t loose all my clients’ recordings. It also says on those recovery discs that all information will be erased off of the C drive. Well that’s always been fine because that is where all the programs are located, no audio files or recording sessions are on there. Carillon actually first recommended that. That plan work great so far, even with all the problems in our past.

Well the recovery disc recovered the wrong drive. Even when it said it was doing the right one. Yes all of my audio is gone 2 bands that I was still in the process of finishing and 10 others that were completed. I can’t explain to you how much money I have now lost. But forget the money,……what I have been through says more right.

I feel that Carillon Audio is responsible for this failure of the recovery discs that you made for me to use. I feel that you should repair my computer once and for all. Remove the SCUSI drives you think are not right. Give me a completely new computer system, updated with all new gear.

I feel that you should compensate me for my losses in some way that is equal to there worth to me. I have nothing to loose on my drives, so if you want I can ship you my computer ASAP. It all gone. ALL of it. And I still do not have a computer that I was so exited about 2 years or so ago. I am truly sad about that. You guys have been nice, I will give you that. The reason for the letter was to document this conversation officially. I want to be Professional about this, all I am asking for is the computer you advertise and compensation for my HUGE loss.

SO CAN YOU BLAM ME FOR HOW I FEEL!!!!

[Steve]

This is a tragic tale. I have not yet heard a good word said about carillon...