So The Jx16 (Guitar) Arrived On Friday.

[TapperMike]

Everytime I start to write about it I get interrupted by playing it.  Rather then try to formulate a cohesive review I'm just going to ramble and get ti all out of my system.

 

I did the review on the JX17 version not to long back.http://forums.songstuff.com/blog/159/entry-1509-review-guitar-research-eddie-durham-jx17/ People would wonder why I got another jazz box so quickly after liking the first one so much.  Well I still like the JX17 the JX16 is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

 

 

The pitch of the neck as it joins the body is something I haven't seen in decades. It's up and out the entire but of the neck rises above the top of the guitar. Yes that's the way it should be. Guitars like this are designed for projection.

The pickups are a treat. While the floating humbucker on the 17 works wonders creating a softer "more acoustic) tone The humbuckers have some bark to them.  While the 16 was designed to be more .es-175 like, the neck pickup is not located the same as would be found on a "175'  instead it has more of a traditional position butted up to the 20th fret.

 

The strings sit high off the body and the pickups do as well.It just looks odd. I haven't adjusted the neck relief or the pickups height which are both something I generally do with all my guitars.  

 

It's more then meets the eye.  They have the same body depth and scale length. Though the Gold (jx16) looks like it has a more shallow body. The lower bout has a 1 inch difference hence the product naming.

 

 

For only an inch difference the jx16 feels much more comfortable to sit with.  While I know that the type of cut away (florentine, venetian ) should have no effect on the tone, still the appearance of these guitars do reflect their character. More has to do with the woods and the pickups.  I've yet to find specs on these guitars anywhere.  The new one (jx16) has a slightly more narrow fretboard width and significantly rounder depth.  Amazingly comfortable easy to grab those big wide stretch "ted greene" chords.  It feels closer to an epi les paul yet plays better with a 12 inch radius.  The tone on the JX acoustically and electricly leads me to believe it's most likely all maple. It's not as warm as the JX17. The JX16 is also laminate as opposed to carved(as is the JX17) It projects less though projects more mids. 

 

The floating bridge has tuneomatic saddles. It gives a slightly faster attack characteristic to the tone and improves the sustain over compensated .While it still has that floating bridge which means anything can knock it out of alignment. The fact that it has a tune o'matic system in place rather then a simple one piece compensated bridge give me hope that if something goes slightly awry I can micro- adjust the bridge back to pitch.  So far haven't needed to.

 

 

So onto actually playing the guitar mixed with a lot of rambling.

 

I let the guitar get acclimated to the room and tune up. The tuners are of kluson design which,,,I always hated as a kid. Even as pretty as they looked on Les Pauls or 335's I always ran into problems especially with the knock offs.  Old junky junk guitars would have plastic buttons that would often come separated from the stem meaning you'd need a pair of pliers to tune the damn thing. The stem would invariably be bent. And even if you survived that the gearing was never sealed properly. Sprockets and gears would wear down and it would constantly slip. With a very tight turning ratio it would be hell trying to fudge the thing into tune.  Well not so with these. While the gear ration is relatively small for guitar the gears are firm but not to stiff. They are amazingly sturdy for their size. I had no problems getting the guitar in tune and having it stay intune.  While it doesn't stay in tune for days it does considerably well for hours.

 

A very peculiar wiring arrangement. With these standard three-way switches and four pots one usually gets separate tone for neck and bridge as well as separate volume for neck and bridge.  Kind of sort of but not really.  In the neck position the neck volume control operates as it should. In the bridge position the bridge volume operates as it should.  In the middle position the neck volume control is disabled and the bridge volume control operates as a master volume for both pickups. Not the end of the world for finessing different tonal variations but just kind of different.

 

I've tuned up and it's time to hear what this baby can do.  Deep, Deep, long sustain bass from either pickup. It's very present yet not aggressive. It was stunning. And even at low volumes with the tone turned off I was hearing something that I couldn't explain (not bad just something unique.  The frets are unusually low. It's like a Les Paul Goldtop fretless wonder (almost) And it was driving me insane. I hadn't adjusted the action yet.  Another thing that was driving me nuts was the strings. They had this sticky quality and it was hard as hell to hold them down, slide or stretch.

 

So it was time to change strings. They felt like 13's and until I unearthed a few mysteries I didn't want to simply lower the action so I put on 09's.  Yep it still had some bottom end left to the tone though not as significant.  I'm playing and playing and lowing the action and raising the action and there still is this strange stickiness.  Then I remembered.  It's a brand new guitar even though it was built in 2006.  The thing must have never been played. It's new, new. there is no evidence that the thing was touched after it left the factory.  When you get a new mazz produced guitar direct from a factory it's never set up. The frets are still rough. Usually if it goes into a store they'll add the finishing touches like restringing and fret polishing with a little steel wool.  Or there is the other method. Play the heck out of the guitar and the strings will work their magic on the frets.  As I'd just changed the strings I chose the later. A few hours later all scrapey, stickiness was gone.

 

I'm a guy who loves low action. So long as there isn't fret buzz I like to take it as low as it can go. All through friday and saturday and even part of sunday. I'd go through the routine of lowering the action then raising the action. Then thinking to myself it can go lower and then raising it back up again. The neck is amazingly straight. The frets are amazingly even.  The pitch from the bridge to the tailpiece..not so amazing. Things start getting floppy once one takes the action down too far.  One way to avoid that type o floppyness without replacing the tailpiece or trying to glue it down is simply to increase string gauge.  But I just changed those strings and if I go up in gauge again I want flatwounds on this box.

 

 

It has this very strange yet magical sympathetic vibration thing happening with it. Almost as if there were tines mounted in the body (yes I do have a guitar which has tines that vibrate sympathetically with the strings) A strange and wonderful resonance that lingers after the string has stopped vibrating. It's not tines it's just the magic of the wood like an acoustic piano. While it's still very much a jazz box and fine for ballads (though not as tender/gentile) There is a certain assertiveness in the tone.

 

All along while I was thinking of playing some mellow slow jazz ballad the guitar had different plans (or at least my hands did) The slightly more narrow string spacing / fretboard width and more rounded neck were calling me to play songs long forgotten. Songs I hadn't played since I had my 335. The Beatles, Yes, The Moody Blues

 

While I'm not a thrasher by nature I'm quite fascinated by the punch this thing has. It's no gretsch yet still has a barky spongy tone suitable for rockabilly or cavern club era beatles.  Eventually I did get around to playing some jazz. Early Metheny, George Benson, Kenny Burrell, Herb Ellis it's all there.  But mostly it has that Kenny Burrell Super 400 florentine cutaway vibe happening.

 

 

Lots of fun

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rudi]

The pitch from the bridge to the tailpiece..not so amazing. Things start getting floppy once one takes the action down too far.  One way to avoid that type o floppyness without replacing the tailpiece or trying to glue it down is simply to increase string gauge.

 

 

I don’t understand the issue here. The loss of enough tension between nut & bridge would be a problem, but what is happening with the tailpiece exactly?

 

It has this very strange yet magical sympathetic vibration thing happening with it. Almost as if there were tines mounted in the body (yes I do have a guitar which has tines that vibrate sympathetically with the strings) A strange and wonderful resonance that lingers after the string has stopped vibrating. It's not tines it's just the magic of the wood like an acoustic piano.

 

 

This is exactly what I found with the HCT-J17. Just as you describe, it’s a residual resonance that enriches the sound. This is a major part of the appeal of the sound for me. It keeps me playing longer and it makes me ssllooww down… No bad thing at all.

 

When I tuned down a tone to make it easier on my fingers, some of this was lost and I stopped enjoying playing so much. So it’s now back in concert & its staying there.

 

That was a good account of your new box. It’s the sort of thing newer players might find educational too. Not technically, but just about forming an understanding & a ‘relationship’ (for want of a better word) with a new instrument.

[TapperMike]

I'm trying to find a decent side view picture to show the pitch of the tailpiece and the distance of the strings from the tailpiece to the bridge.

 

The tailpiece is hinged with the hinge on the body side. The hinge extends the tailpiece up and away from the body with a significant gap this reduces the angle of the strings from the end of the tailpiece to the bridge saddles.  The distance from the ball ends of the strings to the bridge is significantly longer then most jazz guitars.  The lower the action on the bridge the less of an angle from the bridge to the tailpiece.  The less of an angle from the tailpiece to the bridge the more floppy the string becomes (even when tuned to standard pitch) 

 

The earliest of early Les Pauls used a trapeze tailpiece

 

The height of the tailpiece made these unbearable to play. Bend a string hard enough and ti would pop out of the saddle. They had a floppy feel and were quickly replaced with stop tailpieces mounted directly to the body.or they would retrofit the tailpiece bolting it in to the top of the guitar to keep it down.

 

I've been looking at the tailpeice design of your HCT-J17 and the tailpiece is designed considerably better (not just the fact that it's ebony) to mine. The string angle from tailpiece to bridge is steeper, The tailpiece is also longer from the butt of the guitar to the ball of the string which means the travel distance of the string from the tailpiece to the saddle is shorter.

 

In short if we had all three guitars together in the same room with the same strings on them and the same action set and the same tuning...

​Your guitar would exhibit slightly faster attack then either of mine. The strings on yours would require slightly more force then mine to greet the fret. But paradoxically string bends would be easier  Your would sound louder acoustically. It would have more snap (in a good way) to the tone.  Plugged in your pickup has more throaty bass response then my JX17 but not my JX16. 

 

The differences in all are subtle and yet significant enough that the character of the sound is shaped by all the elements that go into it.  Honestly I think you have a great guitar. But that doesn't stop me from liking mine,

Edited February 4, 2015 by TapperMike

[Rudi]

I cant imagine you’ld be doing too many string bends on your JX16. But it’s good to know you could rely on it if you wanted to.

 

You wouldn’t like my HCT-J17 setup at the moment. The combination of a higher action, heavier gauge strings and the Torres scale length makes playing a challenge. It most certainly will not do string bends. Even vibrato is nigh on impossible.

When I need to change strings I will take it to the luthier I know and ask him to set it up nicely. He likes archtops and has an old acoustic one himself.  

 

Sometimes I wonder if I could get accustomed to a shorter scale length. It would be great because it would bring so many superb guitars within my reach. I certainly would like to try out a Durham J17.

 

I came across this a while ago. It’s a reasonable summary about scale. I can’t attest to everything he says, but it’s essentially about right.

http://www.guitarplayer.com/miscellaneous/1139/5-things-about-scale-length/13523

Edited February 5, 2015 by Rudi

[TapperMike]

If the frets are high enough then string gauge becomes of less consequence (except for bending)  That's the whole thing behind Yngwie Malmsteen's scalloped fretboard. When he frets a note he doesn't push down all the way. Just enough to make the string connect to the fret. Rather then traditional vibrato he squeezes 

 

I used to have a Samick HJ560

 

The guy has his pickups to high and needs to roll off the tone a bit.

 

It didn't sound as good as the guitars I have today. However for a time the setup was amazing. Everything was right as rain and it had higher frets. Everyday I'd work out "choking up' on the frets.  Trying to put my fingers on top of the frets as close as possible with just enough force to get a clear string tone. It was an exercise in left hand subtly. Everything about the setup on the guitar was perfect (for a few years) The nut was cut low but not too low. The pitch from the post to the nut was just right. The pitch from the tailpiece to the bridge was just right. And I was playing 13's with a wound g string. I found I didn't need much force to clamp down on a string with my finger because it was always just enough force. Prolly the fastest playing of my life on a jazz guitar.  To me it was all an experiment in performance mechanics.  Eventually I moved away from heaving strings and higher frets lost all I learned about it.  Now I'm remembering but the action needs to be a little higher then I like to retain the proper string pull from the bridge to the tailpiece.

 

That's a great article btw thanks for the link.

 

24.75 was my original scale length 335, Les Paul's and copies my first 8 years of playing were on that scale length.. The more extreme scale lengths, 27, 30, 36 were always hell for me. I was okay with short scale basses on a good day after lots of practice.  But forget baritone guitars or full scale electric basses.

 

The biggest thing that kills me though is super fat wide necks with high action.. I hate Gretsches, Italia's, Heritage, Godins. Washburns and Samick JZ's.. Simply because I can't play them. I was near in tears awhile back when I was shopping for a hollow body.  Guitar after guitar I'd try out in stores and I just could not hold down the strings for crap. It was shamefully embarrassing trying to get something out of those things with my sister.  

 

The 16 and the 17 are just awesome as far as the feel of the necks go. Though slightly different in form they have the right fit for my hands.

Edited February 6, 2015 by TapperMike

[TapperMike]

You know me too well when it comes to string bending.  I never really developed a knack for it on jazz guitars and most of the old time jazz players only occasionally tried string bending on the upper two strings..even then only half step bends.  I leave string bending for solid body guitars with thinner string sets.  

[TapperMike]

As fate would have it... After posting about string bending I was dabbling with Layla on my JX16 shifted the floating bridge while bending at the 13th fret.

[Rudi]

As fate would have it... After posting about string bending I was dabbling with Layla on my JX16 shifted the floating bridge while bending at the 13th fret.

 

I havnt tried playing anything except jazz on the Hofner yet. I will get around to it no doubt.

[TapperMike]

Convenient positioning can some times cause lazyiness.  I watch a lot of youtube. My amp is also my soundcard for my computer. And because I really excited about the guitar I keep it plugged in and handy.  I was just to lazy to walk across the room and pick up another guitar..

[Rudi]

I'm also looking at another guitar. I'll post something up in a day or two.

 

I'm also trying to sell a couple. I have a Yamaha acoustic advertised on Preloved, and my practice guitar is up on ebay uk. I really wanted to post a video of it but I dont see that provision anywhere.

 

I dont plug anything in when practicing. I only do that in the studio at home.

[TapperMike]

No mention of what your next will be.

 

Careful it's a slippery slope. I've bought 5 guitars in the last 5 years. Even when I'm playing and loving the guitar I have i'm looking at others.

 

For almost all of my playing I'm amped up. It's too convenient as my amp also serves as my sound card for my computer -  http://forums.songstuff.com/blog/159/entry-1484-review-yamaha-thr10c-the-little-amp-that-can/

 

On rare occasions I'll play what ever is handy without an amp such as basic practice working out ideas away from the computer.

[Rudi]

Well I have ordered it now. Its a Hagstrom Deuce. I hate ordering anything blind. I've only done it once before, but I couldnt find a Deuce inside a 500 mile radius. So I hope its ok.

 

http://www.hagstromguitars.eu/index.php?option=com_zoo&task=item&item_id=326&Itemid=36

 

I thought I was going for a Godin LGX-SA for a long while. It would have meant cancelling my holiday, which I was prepared for. But a straightforward spec comparison shows that these are remarkably similar. Both are entirely mahognony body & neck with split coil humbuckers.

 

My spec list was:

 

scale: 25.5

neck width: 1.69" (43mm) at nut

radius: 15" or more. Or similar compound radii.

fixed bridge:

single-coil pickup

 

I only found one model (out of hundreds) that actually met this. Its a Hagstrom Metropolis-S (it has single coils)

 

But a couple more had split coil humbuckers, so that was close enough.

 

It will have to work for its keep. It will be a backup for gigs.

[TapperMike]

Hagstroms are rare around these parts (though not online)

 

The majority of guitars I currently own were purchased online.  As much as I like ma/pa stores I rarely find what I'm looking for when I go to them. I've been extremely satisfied with those guitars I've bought online going back to '08 when I bought my Parker P44

 

A good but rare find in the Tele type (single coil, fixed bridge) is a Parker P36.  

 

I remember them going for about $700 (us) new and used they still go for about 400

[Rudi]

I've not seen it before. Looks interesting but the 1.65" fingerboard width is far too narrow for me. 

I have the Deuce now. Not quite finished my write up yet. I was going to put it in the guitar area. 

 

I havn't managed to sell a guitar yet. 

[TapperMike]

It's radial.  Fatter at the nut (deep) and as you go up the neck it gets wider and flatter.  Same neck I have on my Parker P44.  Takes very little getting used to.

 

Look forward to your review.

[Rudi]

I found some info. GAK is in Brighton, not far away but they have no stock. When they did it was £599. Guitars are more expensive in the UK.

 

They quote radii as 10-13" compound.

http://www.gak.co.uk/en/parker-p36/5076?gclid=CJqFo87L5MMCFQXmwgod8pEAJw

 

http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/smithtone/p36.html

 

I cant find the link for the neck width quote above again now, but obviously it was the nut position.

 

Back to the Jx16 tone....

Can you hear the extra resonance we discussed better with a ear on the guitar body?

 

I've been doing this with the Deuce. I've never heard sounds like it before. Completely different from the other guitars.

[TapperMike]

Yikes, sorry for the delayed response.

 

 

I think you guys pay too much for your gear and have too little a selection over there.  I also think your tax structure is inequal.  Here sales taxes are established state by state.  Some states have zero sales tax and the highest is 7.5%

 

Re Resonance.  Yes, It's much more profound when I put my hear near the cutaway.Also I feel it more (subtly) when I play and sing. I'm a terrible singer in general and I have to sing and play scales on a regular basis to get near the truth. For some reason I hear both my out of tune singing and my intune singing in a more enhanced way. It's rather dramatic and makes things easier to get my voice in tune.  I also notice that even though my relative pitch will always need to be worked out that I'm picking up on songs by ear or memory better. EG think of a song I've heard but never played and try to figure it out. 

[Rudi]

I think you guys pay too much for your gear and have too little a selection over there.

 

I concur with that.

 

 I also think your tax structure is inequal.  Here sales taxes are established state by state.  Some states have zero sales tax and the highest is 7.5%

 

 

I suppose that means you can cross the border & pick it up cheaper. And not pay any extra when crossing back across the border.

 

I had looked at buying from the US on ebay as there are some respected traders regularly offering interesting stuff.

But...

Then after the shipping costs (and insurance), when it gets to the uk there is 3% import duty to pay and also 20% vat (value added tax). Oftimes this will still work out cheaper than buying at home, but the rub is that any problems (returns) will wipe out that advantage.

 

Thats why I was happy to have got the Deuce from Germany. As a fellow EC state, the cost included uk tax and there is no import duty. Anything over a certain amount is free shipping too. They have bought in more TSB Deuces now so they are not running down stock. So I cant work out why these guitars are so much cheaper there.

 

Thomann prices are constantly fluctuating so I imagine they are exchange rate index linked.

[TapperMike]

Well there is no VAT here.

 

State borders aren't like massive walls and security gates.  Usually they are unmarked.  With the exception of if you are traveling down a highway you might see a big sign saying "Welcome to This State"

 

When buying online you'll see a disclaimer that may read "California Residents must pay 6% sales tax at checkout." When both the purchaser and the seller both operate (live) in the same state the state tax must be paid at checkout  However if a person lives outside of the state they are not required to pay the sales tax to that state.  Instead it's an honor system that one is to wait till tax time and and pay the taxes to the state where they live.  No one ever does.

 

Shipping here is... extremely reliable. US Postal Service, UPS, FedEx  About the only time I had an issue was when the seller inadvertently put the incorrect address.  It was sorted in a day.  I never add shipping insurance if the product is under $1000  I've read quite a number of horror stories regarding couriers in the UK.  I'm glad I don't have to deal with that.

[Rudi]

Its not insurance for delivery so much as insurance against damage.

 

I also meant that if there is a problem with the item and have to return it, I incur a lot of extra shipping costs.

 

I'm not aware of horror stories about uk couriers. The only problem I get is when they knock & run, meaning dont wait for you to answer the door before dropping a card through the letter box and returning the parcel to the depot.

 

What have you heard Mike?