Arcurus from Vancouver Saying Hello

[Arcurus]

At the risk of sounding sounding like a jaded self pitying sourpuss, I will just say that after having put out a rock opera and 4 LP's, and after spending 10's of thousand on production and then marketing using John Ojaka's MMM and Chris' Music University with zero results, I have concluded that selling music online and making money from your music are myths. Make music for your your personal pleasure but expect nothing back. Nobody owes you anything even if you just recorded the greatest album of all time and that is where I am at.

[john]

Hey Arcurus

 

Welcome to Songstuff!

 

I’d be interested in what they had you doing and what you were expecting. There can be many factors affecting the reaching of goals, including the realism of those goals, but some courses aren’t much good and I find often value doesn’t necessarily go with price. In music one formula does not necessarily fit all. The old model of music required a sizeable risk, but I don’t think it needs that risk now. Often I think artists need honesty, from others and from themselves and a willingness to be creative in finding and engaging their fans. Having people you can compare notes with…. All go with a basic game plan. I’ve looked at a lot of the available game plans etc out there. Some are not bad, but some are pretty awful.

 

If you are still releasing music, it’s still worth having a plan. Even if you give your music away for free. At the end of the day it’s all about finding and connecting with your audience as a fundamental step. It’s the step most artists do wrong. It’s not the only step. It’s not the first step, but it is a vital one.

 

Either way, it’s good to have you aboard. Hopefully I can hear what you’ve been doing at some point, and who knows, maybe we can help you in some way?

 

Onwards and upwards.

 

John

[john]

3 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

Welcome to the forum Arcurus!

 

Before anything, I want you to know that I completely understand where your coming from. Making a rock opera and releasing 4 LP's, wasting all that faith and money, without ever seeing something in return. That is absolutely awful. I... can imagine that being in some online forum is the last place you wanted to be right now. Who could blame you. So to that end, if you`d like to talk or something, don`t be a stranger. Also, as it happens, I am a BIG fan of Rock Opera`s. I`d like to listen to your music, if that`s possible.

 

There are however... a few things i`d like to address. You see, due to my own ignorance or faulty memory, i`m not exactly sure who this John Ojaka's is. Could you, or anyone else, please enlighten me on this person is? Google gave me various results, most of which point at some old school country artists / rocker.

 

I would also like get some clarity on this "Chris Music University". Am I to understand that you are a musician which enrolled in a liberal arts college? or am I way off? id like to know. Because if i`m wrong, than pay no attention to the following segment.

 

The reason I am asking these questions is because from my experience universities are not really in the business of making rising stars. I mean, sure, they can pop out sound engineers as if they were candy, and slap Bachelor degrees and titles on practically anyone that paid enough. But what does that actually mean for a solo artist? and, no, I am not dissing the value of academic training. Far from it. But I will point out that these are examples of people which are more likely to become future employees (i,e the logic behind formal training), instead of becoming full solo artists. Aka, don`t put all your eggs in one basket. Especially when your in a position where the place your studying in has an invested interest in planning out your entire course of academia, your entire future with them, around the idea of you becoming "attached" or "dependent" on them, and their exclusive resources. "Ensuring return of investment". Obviously this is just my opinion. You do not have to agree with me. Consider what i`m saying as a objective hypothesis or as friendly words of caution.

 

He means John Oszajca and his Music Marketing Manifesto. I don’t want to link to it. At the time he emerged on the Internet most of these guys were internet marketers wrapped up in music terminology to make it a bit less salesy sounding. His own marketing is quite slick and he certainly has some skills and abilities. While there are many lessons to be learned from digital marketing, for music it is only part of the picture.
 

I can’t speak specifically for MMM, but most of these guys trivialise the amount of work and ongoing budget required, and the skills that might be required. They also tend to operate in fairly deep music channels themselves. For artists that are more niche there is of course an audience, but it is smaller. Such people also don’t tend to look at your product and be really honest with you… is it good enough. It’s a major failing of such businesses. That is not to say that such work cannot be good enough. 
 

if these guys were a marketing department in a label, they know there is a team taking care that your product is of a good enough standard, knocking it back from being released until the writing, performance, recording, production and mastering are all good enough, that the artwork and photo shoots are good, that everything is ready to roll… before release happens. At best only some of these steps are touched on, leaving artists going to market too soon, partly prepared and simply not market ready.

 

Even when market ready, different audiences really benefit from more nuanced approaches. Such classes largely leave that up to you or to peers. Often trainers are experienced in a few mainstream genres so their advice is limited. For some niches you either need an advisor experienced in your exact genre or who had a good create and analytical mind (most trainers are either one or the other, more or less using the same playbook as your own but with a bit more experience. Ie their ability to create new strategies is highly limited. It’s a great shame because often the majority of their courses are useful are applicable.. in context.

 

So, for example, say you put together a marketing video to use as a video ad on Facebook. The tools they give you are good at identifying your video is failing to get clicks, but they don’t really help you with identifying why your ideal audience is not clicking. Again they may help you identify that you may have mis-defined your initial audience, but not really helped you more effectively target, they may make broad suggestions on product bundling but not really identify that product bundling is a major factor in lack of sales, or that your profit margins are too low, and not really give you solutions that really address these problems.

 

Some are better than others, that is definitely true. Most do contribute bits of the puzzle (some more useful than others) but they don’t magically teach us all we need to know. To a degree their support groups could help…. But they aren’t necessarily that experienced. Courses might have a lot of good stuff, but most don’t fill the gaps effectively. Most don’t view their clients as people they have to adapt the course work to, or even help adapt their clients to the course work… so much as say the same thing, but slower, in the hope their clients adapt all on their own.

 

I’m rambling. Lol

[Peggy]

Hello Arcurus, Welcome to Songstuff!  It would be great if you'd like to share some of your music with us.  We have a Showcase board  for finished works and we are always looking for songs to include on our playlists.. 

 

 

On 8/15/2021 at 12:40 PM, Arcurus said:

Nobody owes you anything

You are sooooo right about that! 

 

Peggy