Reference tracks - what are your thoughts on it?

[Mahesh]

It is considered common practice to work with reference tracks during production of a song as it helps create a mood palette or vision board for your creative process. You may like a snare sound from one place or a certain production idea appealing. Discovering and exploring your creative muse and music listening habits may help keep your songwriting momentum going & offer a good way to communicate your ideas to others. However, I have met independent musicians who do not seem to be open to this thought process because of the belief that they could somehow infect their own song writing process and its integrity. Some have even said they may inadvertently plagiarise someone's music if they did. 

 

What do you think? Do you use reference tracks? If so, how? If not, why not? And how do you think either of those decisions help you or doesn't?

 

Interested to hear your thoughts on it!

[john]

Hmmm.

 

I use reference tracks for arrangement and production to get into the same sonic space…. I use it very specifically when checking mixes and mastering. I don’t use it to imitate another song. I wonder if they misunderstand it’s use, or if their songs are so easily influenced?

[GregB]

11 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Do you use reference tracks? If so, how? If not, why not?

 

If you mean using a reference track in mastering, I think it's almost impossible to 'sound' like a favourite artist or a particular release.  Considering everything is already mixed,  constituent tracks would have to have used similar instruments, similar settings, similar plugins/processsing and similar relative levels as the reference track.

 

Personally, to get the same sonic feel through an album, I use consistent instruments throughout. I restring my one and only guitar at the start and my playing position from the mic is relatively constant.  Once I've determine the EQ settings for guitar (mic and DI) and vocals, I'll replicate this on every song.  EZ Drummer 2 used for everything without changing the default output settings.  A single synthesised guitar tone for MIDI guitar lead breaks.  No more than two synthesiser 'sounds' per album.  The same orchestral sound library.  Minimal reverb and/or delay through the stock plugins. And, for each song, the same settings for Ozone mastering  placed on each master track.

 

For personal satisfaction I like to know that I have created everything and not have not ceded control to any third-party AI 'fairy dust'.  Although the acuity of my hearing is diminishing, I'm still up for the challenge.

 

Greg

[The S]

Yes, what have already been stated. For sonic space only. 

 

If I wan't my song to sound like Howlin' Wolf, I'll have a Howlin' Wolf song imported to my DAW.

 

I then compare overall balance of the mix, volume of instruments/vocals, fx's - correct/wrong - more/less etc...

 

I always use it because without it I get lost in the momentum and then I'll unintentionally stray further away from the sound I intended to capture from the start.

 

I usually have 1-3 ref tracks imported and muted in my DAW (Logic), when I need to check where I'm at I just unmute, listen, compare and adjust if need be.

 

To me a ref track has nothing to do with writing.

 

But I get that if you use your DAW as an instrument when writing and you have a fresh ref track up, I see where that could interfere with um...your own originality. That's like having a completely different song playing in the background while you sit with a guitar and try to write your own?!?! That's asking for trouble and inevitable plagiarism. 😃

 

So my advice is, use a ref track when the song is done and ready to be recorded, and use it only to capture a certain soundscape, for the whole mix or for certain instruments.

 

Hope that helps.

 

//Peter 

 

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by The S

[Clay Anderson Johnson]

On 1/14/2022 at 6:13 AM, Mahesh said:

What do you think? Do you use reference tracks? If so, how? If not, why not? And how do you think either of those decisions help you or doesn't?

 

I have never done this although I see nothing wrong with doing it. I would think it would steer you away from plagiarizing or too closely copying something more than the reverse. That is assuming you have some form of ethics or at least fear of legal retribution.

 

I have actually never heard of doing this.  When I played sessions in a studio there was a producer and what you played was his vision. You never questioned it or were asked for your opinion.  A good portion of the time the song was not written by the artist recording it so they had limited input also.

 

When I started producing for myself I carried this mentality into my own work. I have a vision of what it should sound like before it ever begins being recorded. That is my guidepost.

 

I cannot speak to anyone else’s creative process being good or bad. I only know what I know and what works for me. I mentally “hear” what something should sound like before recording it. I may have arrived at the idea through improvisation but I never write or record anything I have not “heard” explicitly in some form.

 

It doesn’t come from something I have heard on another recording although there are most likely subconscious associations. It would be virtually impossible to not be influenced to some extent by what you have previously heard from someone else.

 

However I do consciously copy the style of other producers which I have worked with as well as those whom I have never met bur recognize and like their technique.

[Steve Mueske]

I have read people use reference tracks. Since I started producing and mastering my own music, I have never used them. What I do instead is extensive metering and a common set of tools to achieve my sound. In the old days, when I recorded at recording studios, it was common for engineers to use reference tracks because we hadn't worked together extensively and it was easier for them to ask "are there any bands or tracks you want this to sound like?" If I were mixing and mastering other people's music, I'd probably do this more. I'm more concerned with levels, clarity, etc., and I depend on my ears and metering. Not that reference tracks are wrong, it's just that I know what I want my work to sound like and have never found them useful producing my own work.

[Mahesh]

On 1/15/2022 at 3:32 AM, john said:

I wonder if they misunderstand it’s use, or if their songs are so easily influenced?

 

You couldn't have said it better bud. I do believe that many do misunderstand the use of it. Not that everybody has to use it. But those who do use it need to understand how it can actually be useful to the process.

[Mahesh]

On 1/15/2022 at 4:41 AM, GregB said:

If you mean using a reference track in mastering, I think it's almost impossible to 'sound' like a favourite artist or a particular release. 

 

I completely agree with that statement. It's highly impossible to recreate a sound from any record unless done with the same circumstances of recording & production. In cases beyond mastering, reference tracks are a good way to better understand what your ears maybe looking for. 

For example, a huge part of my sense of musicality comes from broad pallet of music that I constantly consume. If I'm trying to find a certain kick sound for a beat, I would go to a song that I can relate to in alignment with what I'm writing; at least to understand what about that kick that makes it soo good if not the nature of its tone & the nuances. It may not necessarily be to sound like it but sometimes to extract the thought process & understanding that's gone into the production. This is at least how I use reference tracks. Merely as a way to bring about valid questions to ask & decision making in my creative process that can help with progress. 

 

When it comes to reference tracks, I've personally seen/met a good number of people who fall in both categories - those who use it and those who don't. So I think it's just a taste thing in terms of how they handle their creative process.  

[john]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:03 PM, Steve Mueske said:

I have read people use reference tracks. Since I started producing and mastering my own music, I have never used them. What I do instead is extensive metering and a common set of tools to achieve my sound. In the old days, when I recorded at recording studios, it was common for engineers to use reference tracks because we hadn't worked together extensively and it was easier for them to ask "are there any bands or tracks you want this to sound like?" If I were mixing and mastering other people's music, I'd probably do this more. I'm more concerned with levels, clarity, etc., and I depend on my ears and metering. Not that reference tracks are wrong, it's just that I know what I want my work to sound like and have never found them useful producing my own work.

Weirdly, perhaps, I never use them to sound like someone. I pick tracks as reference tracks because of sonic qualities, because of familiarity of how that track sounds on different set ups. When you create a mix of a track, it would be unusual if you didn’t try your mix on different setups to see how that mix held up. Reference tracks help in that process. If I know a recording well, and I know what that track sounds like, then I have an idea how the system is colouring my new mix. I can play my reference track in that system and hear directly how the new listening system affected that reference track.
 

More than that, I know if my new track has a similar frequency balance (as attested to by my ears and a spectrum analyser) then my new track should stand up as well on a bunch of systems as the reference track. That’s why you use reference tracks!

 

As I say, there are a lot of misunderstandings about reference tracks. Imitating anything has nothing to do with it.

[hariossa]

I do use reference tracks but only for mastering, in order to get the song to sound in the ballpark of "the standard sound". I use iZotope's Ozone for mastering (with some added 3rd party plugins in the chain) and also from iZotope there's a very useful tool called Tonal Balance Control which allows you to create a frequency curve to use as a visual guide with your favorite reference track and even with a whole folder of reference tracks.

[john]

1 hour ago, hariossa said:

I do use reference tracks but only for mastering, in order to get the song to sound in the ballpark of "the standard sound". I use iZotope's Ozone for mastering (with some added 3rd party plugins in the chain) and also from iZotope there's a very useful tool called Tonal Balance Control which allows you to create a frequency curve to use as a visual guide with your favorite reference track and even with a whole folder of reference tracks.

 

Hey great to see you back on the boards Hari!

 

You can't go wrong with iZotope Ozone.