Mission: Attract more active female members

[john]

Hi Gang

 

@Peggy @Janeva @Lisa Gates

 

Not just for you three, but I hope you are a good place to start!

 

I’d like to balance out the site more with introducing more active female members. I am hoping you can help in this.

 

It sounds simple, but there are a few steps:

 

Ideas

• How can we attract them
• How can we retain them
• Is there something different we have to do to inspire them

 

Activity

Activity breeds activity. Activity from women will make Songstuff a more comfortable place to be. We used to have several active female members, but not an adequate level for a long time. Can you help by;

• Regularly posting new topics
• Regularly posting replies
• Posting the odd image

 

Can you help us pull together something to address this?

 

Cheers

 

John

[VoiceEx]

I have to ask. Is this somehow related to all the times I kept calling this place a sausage fest?! 🤣

Edited November 23 by VoiceEx

[john]

2 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

I have to ask. Is this somehow related to all the times I kept calling this place a sausage fest?! 🤣

 

Nope, although it has become a representative chant “Sausage fest! Sausage fest! SAUSAGE FEST!”

[Peggy]

On 11/23/2024 at 5:12 AM, VoiceEx said:

I have to ask. Is this somehow related to all the times I kept calling this place a sausage fest?! 🤣

Sometimes, I call it a man cave. That said,  I'm kind of used to it because of my IT career and interest in music making.

 

Songstuff is no different than the rest of the music industry.  Although Songstuff has seen a decline of active female members over the past few years. 

 

When checking stats, men dominant the music industry; lyricist, singers, songwriters, guitarist, drummers, producers, engineers, etc.  The gap closes by small percentages in some areas and grows and declines in other areas, but all in small percentages. It just is what it is.  I don't believe that MOST of the variance is due to discrimination.  People are different. Yet, there are many women who are very interested in creating, performing and being involved in some aspect of the music industry whether that is as a hobbyist, pro-am or pro.

 

• How can we attract them - The same way we attract others interested in the music industry.
• How can we retain them - with content, encouragement, engagement and respect, just as with all members. 
• Is there something different we have to do to inspire them - I don't think so.

 

A suggestion would be that images used throughout Songstuff and it's social media content/presence ALSO include women actively participating in music.  Not just watching and enjoying.

 

Maybe we think about creating a playlist or two of awesome female artists and musicians to be promoted. There are some really great female musicians today, just as there always has been, but we could highlight them.

 

@john I've seen Jan around occasionally, most often after the newsletter comes out, but I haven't seen Lisa around too much.  I'll drop Lisa and Jan a PM and see if they have any ideas or opinions and try to encourage them to come around more often. 

 

[GregB]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:49 AM, john said:

How can we attract them

 

1. I think all the people in the display ads that appear  at the top and side of EVERY page ... are MEN plus bold colours.   
So ... simply up the % of images that show females, perhaps those images to also use softer/pastel colours.

 

2. And perhaps send occasional personal invites to all Members whose Profile specifies 'Female' to submit songs/videos to a playlist featuring just Female Members?  I doubt if the general Membership would complain if they know the intention is to level the playing field.

 

3. Consider a "Member of the Week/Month" feature where a member can submit a max 500-word bio with links to their work.  If this were instigated YOU can level the field by CHOOSING females to increase their percentage representation (as well as directly invite females to apply to BE featured).   

 

 

Greg

 

[john]

1 hour ago, GregB said:

1. I think all the people in the display ads that appear  at the top and side of EVERY page ... are MEN plus bold colours

 

Interesting how impressions like ALL and EVERY are formed.

 

I am not sure how you formed that impression of the distribution of gender in the images. There are a fair number of indeterminate pics (like the hand holding the glowing orb in the network pic). Bold colours yes (borrowed from the most popular YouTube thumbs colour schemes used by both men and women, but I take your point), but there are quite a lot of women in the community ad pics (which are the ones I think you are talking about).

 

Sure there are some men, but there are also women. For example the large side bar ad for the independent music hub has 3 women and 2 men in it.

 

Then there are the community board pics, like the musician’s lounge, with a guy and a girl facing each other in a bar. True, not a soft, gentle pic. That is something that has a low representation.

 

Are they wearing skirts, hugging teddy bears and skipping…. no, but there are definitely women in the pics.

 

Other than that observation, your suggestions, including upping the number of women in pics a bit, I think are pretty good.

[Janeva]

You're going to need more soft furnishings, John, cushions, throws and definitely kittens 😂

 

Seriously though, semi retirement has finally arrived for me at long last
🙏 so I am hoping to visit the site more often.

 

Janeva

[john]

4 hours ago, Janeva said:

You're going to need more soft furnishings, John, cushions, throws and definitely kittens 😂

 

Seriously though, semi retirement has finally arrived for me at long last
🙏 so I am hoping to visit the site more often.

 

Janeva

 

Awesome!

 

Erm…. Do you have cushions, throws and any kittens? (I’m guessing the cushions are for somewhere soft to land when we throw the kittens?)

[GregB]

On 11/30/2024 at 6:17 PM, john said:

are quite a lot of women in the community ad pics

 

but are they in a dominant/active/equal role? 

 

 

Are there any pics of sole female performers?

 

PS. I'm not criticising anything or trying to be 'woke',  I'm just responding to your call for suggestions 'how to attract more females to [or be active in] Songstuff'.   I know from experience that it's easy to become 'blind' to visuals after the 100th presentation. 

 

[john]

1 hour ago, GregB said:

 

but are they in a dominant/active/equal role? 

 

 

Are there any pics of sole female performers?

 

PS. I'm not criticising anything or trying to be 'woke',  I'm just responding to your call for suggestions 'how to attract more females to [or be active in] Songstuff'.   I know from experience that it's easy to become 'blind' to visuals after the 100th presentation. 

 

 

Hey Greg

 

I don’t intend to come over as prickly. I say that because you seem to be concerned I might be defensive, or react somewhat off ideally to your comments. I try to take what everyone says and consider it. I agree with some, disagree with others. I still have an opinion. That said i very much welcome input. With it comes perspectives, valuable observations and suggestions.

 

Please don’t take my qualifying of an observation or rejection or dialling down of a suggestion as being anything other than me doing the job of an editor. I’m trying to get the best result, yes, but part of that is also making sure I understand where we are currently, and identifying why something works or doesn’t work as intended, and that impacts why one suggestion might win over another suggestion.

 

While I don’t really disagree with your point, I think the bigger problem is an overall lack of people presence. Too many photos are passive, and unengaging. In short, we could do with more people in the photos. It would make sense, based on suggestions, to prominently feature women as central, active participants. The balance could be improved. Introducing some softer colours might help.

 

Suggestions are very welcome.

[GregB]

No problems at all.

Text-conversations are what they are and, for me, VASTLY preferred to actually meeting people!!  

[McnaughtonPark]

Females write the best love songs. 

 

 

[john]

To get started, I’ve updated some of the board images. I’ll work on the in-site ads next

[VoiceEx]

@john@GregB@Janeva@McnaughtonPark @Mahesh@Lisa Gates

 

I had originally shared more of my thought's around this subject in private with @Peggy because I don't know if what I want to suggest is relevant or practical. I'm also pretty sure that its likely that nobody will agree with lol. Which is fine 👍 but I felt like I should at least voice my opinion once. But before that, there's something I want to clarify.

 

I am not an expert on what women want. Let alone, on what women musicians would want. I'm also not a marketing/advertisement expert. I'm just your typical run at the mill dude that's wondering why Songstuff seems to have turned out this way.

 

"How can we attract them - The same way we attract others interested in the music industry."

 

Since there has been a noticeable decline in female members, that would suggest that relying on the baseline shared commonalities between musicians, regardless of gender, does not seem to do the trick in terms of balancing the gap. I could be wrong of course. However, the evidence suggests that doing more of the same, is likely to do just that. Getting more of the same results. I mean, if that wasn't the case, than wouldn't we have more women already?

 

In terms of how to fix this problem, I would suggest targeting female consumers separately from men by advertising content that is more likely to appeal to women. This could be done by repurposing or altering existing promotional material and content, and then distributing the content at gender specific social groups (or any other location) where there is a higher probability of reaching the specific group of interest.

 

I know that having an interest in music is something that both genders have in common. However, both from a scientific point of view and as consumers, they are not identical. And since there are more men in the industry, if both genders are targeted in the same way, it would be logical to assume that the dominant group will keep coming up on top.

 

I think that this might one of the factors that's causing the imbalance.

 

And, no, I am not suggesting that Songstuff starts advertising pink guitars or something. Adding more pictures of women in advertisements and highlighting them on playlists would indeed be a step in the right direction. The same could be said for showing more women being active in the community, as well as pushing forward male and female collaborations.

 

All of these elements combined would be something that both men and women are likely to pay attention too.

 

However - if those were the only steps taken, then no, I don't think that would enough to balance the gap. Not at this point in time. I think we simply don't have enough women yet for that tactic to make a real difference. 

 

Which is why I'm saying, from a consumer's point of view, if you keep "selling guitars" than you'll keep getting more guitarists. Both men and women. But if you want to get more women and in bulk, then you should be selling "perfume". I am of course not talking about literal perfume.

 

To put that in perspective, I think that one of the key differences here, is that male consumers tend to go for a more functional approach. While on the other hand, women seem to be more inclined to want to know about the salesman, the lifestyle, and how your products are going to make them feel. Its a bit like saying: "Men are loyal to brands, women are loyal to good service".

 

Again. I don't know how all of this could be utilized to serve Songstuff's needs. But I think that focusing on one gender temporarily until the gap is more balanced might be a good way to start the engine. And if not, it won't do any real harm either.

 

Just my two cents of course. Take what you will 👍

Edited December 8 by VoiceEx

[GregB]

7 hours ago, VoiceEx said:

... women seem to be more inclined to want to know ...

 

Rather than guess, why doesn't Admin just  message all female members (as profile-registered) and ASK them what they want/need/like/don't-like, or WHY they don't engage more?

 

Or is that being too functionally 'male'?  

[john]

1 hour ago, GregB said:

Admin

 

Who is this “Admin” of whom you speak? Lol

 

I could email a lot, but a load have opted out of non-essential contact, plus the gender option in profile is entirely optional. I wish there was a blanket “send it to just women” button in our bulk mailer

 

You make a fair point though. At the same time I would need to create a way to get feedback. Probably just a few replies, but potentially almost 10,000. A poll might be useful, however, if it is on our boards there is no way of stopping male members voting. If it is in my PM that is potentially a lot of opinions to collate… plus I am not sure I can run a poll in PM. I’ve never tried!

 

If we go for replies in a topic, then we get back to me forming a general impression of the balance of opinions. Still, it is worth a try. Considering engagement atm, prepare to be underwhelmed!

 

If we get a lot of good replies from such an ask, brilliant, if we don’t then we will be back here trying to make our best guess based on the feedback from @Peggy & @Janeva ( @Lisa Gates hasn’t replied yet). We’ll get there. We’ll be boosting general engagement and promoting to everyone and anyone, which will see a general increase in activity, but I think also doing what VX’s suggestion could be implemented as by promoting exclusively (or almost exclusively) to women initially might be the way ahead.

 

As we go we can continue to ask our female members their opinions and fine tune our approach and the site features as we go.

[GregB]

 

5 minutes ago, john said:

we can continue to ask our female members their opinions

 

Don't forget to ask the prolific/redoubtable Bridget Murphy. 
I've had suspicions 'she' is an AI as she never actually responds directly on-topic nor to specific questions/messages.
BUT, if truly an AI, you'll get ALL the answers you need!      

[VoiceEx]

3 hours ago, GregB said:

Rather than guess, why doesn't Admin just  message all female members (as profile-registered) and ASK them what they want/need/like/don't-like, or WHY they don't engage more?

 

Or is that being too functionally 'male'?  

 

Well as long as the conversation doesn't start with: "How may we service you, madam?" then everything should be fine 😅👍

 

Though I will point out, getting a person to tell you what they 'want' is easy. However, what they say might not necessarily be what actually keeps them here.

 

To give a small example, having more women would certainly help with attracting more women. However, whose to say that having more women is what keeps them engaged? There are many elements in this situation. Which is why I suggested going for a more nuanced approach.

[McnaughtonPark]

lol, men trying to figure out women…

[McnaughtonPark]

I haven’t added anything productive to this discussion because I don’t know what it takes to recruit or engage the fairer sex or anyone else for that matter.  That would be marketing’s territory.  
 

It feels like everything I would say would be from my perspective and not theirs.  I know women like security, a safe place to be who they are, so make a female only forum.  Moderated by women, with which and within no male is allowed.  
 

yes, of course it’s easy to assume some bad actors may falsely assume a female identity and join under false pretense, but even that is up to the members of that group to rectify.  They have autonomy and authority to do whatever it is to maintain security, content, membership, access…everything.

 

And that is really all I can add.  Assume at this point that forum exists, even naming the forum is up to them, every rule and aspect respecting it is up to them, all there is left for we males to do is get out of the way.

 

mp