Lend Me Your Ears (Please)

[Guest voclizr]

HI;

I wonder if anybody could do me a small favor. Please listen to my music on the link below and tell me how the mixes sound on speakers. I don't have my big stereo anymore, and I had to mix these to headphones, so I never heard them on relatively large speakers and I would really like to know if they sound thick enough to fill out a bigger setup. I will be buying a new stereo soon (hopefully). I need this info on "A World Away" and "Should've Known". I already know "Time Out" is too thin. That was 4-tracked. I appreciate any and all responses!

John B.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=426334

[Prometheus]

HI;

I wonder if anybody could do me a small favor. Please listen to my music on the link below and tell me how the mixes sound on speakers. I don't have my big stereo anymore, and I had to mix these to headphones, so I never heard them on relatively large speakers and I would really like to know if they sound thick enough to fill out a bigger setup. I will be buying a new stereo soon (hopefully). I need this info on "A World Away" and "Should've Known". I already know "Time Out" is too thin. That was 4-tracked. I appreciate any and all responses!

John B.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=426334

i'll get onto that just now... Will post again in within the hour...

[Prometheus]

I've just listened to A World Away, and I must say, I liked it a lot... I think the singing is great in it and all the sound of each instrument are very clear without being harsh. There seems to be a pretty good frequency spread when the hats come in and bring the top end to life...

The only thing I would say is that it's maybe a bit wider spatialy than I would have made it for the amount of different mix instruments in it, so in some of sparser parts of the song, it sounds a bit like the mix has a hole in the middle of it, but that really is just me being pernickity.

I think it's a really great song and very pleasantly mixed too. Even as I was listening to it, I could feel it growing on me the more I heard. Excellent Job! It kind of reminded me of Fergal Sharkey's "it never happens to me" a little bit...

[Prometheus]

Just listened to "should have known" and basically, much the same thoughts as last time... Just to be pernickity about one thing, I thought because the backing track has been done on a sound module of some kind? and the vocals are live and treated with some kind of reverb? I felt the vocals sounded a little bit far away...

I was kind of thinking it was 80's sounding, then saw you wrote it in 87, so well it should be... Basically, I like your songs!

On the point you made yourself, I think possibly they could maybe do with a couple of extra instruments to thicken them out a little, or bring the stereo panning in a bit...

Edited December 1, 2005 by Prometheus

[Guest voclizr]

Hi Pro;

Thanks for listening in and your comments. Alot of folks have enquired about the lead vocal track on "Should". I used a doubling effect. My recorder has tons of onboard effects and there is one called "Short Delay". These effects can be edited and I was able to trade the delay quality for a doubler (or "double tracking" as Sir George Martin called it in the Beatle's heyday). The reason I asked the question about the sound quality is that my previous attempts were 4-track analog (as is "Time Out" recorded in 1990). The tracks I recorded with that equipment sounded OK on headphones, but through big stereo speakers they got "washed out". The sound was so thin that it had this oscillation that reminded one of talking through an electric fan which I hated. My two new pieces were recorded on a digital unit. Through headphones they sound better than the analogs but I never heard them yet through speakers of any sizeable quality. I expect to be gettiing a new stereo by Christmas time. I thank you for letting me use your ears in this way! JB

[Prometheus]

Hi Pro;

Thanks for listening in and your comments. Alot of folks have enquired about the lead vocal track on "Should". I used a doubling effect. My recorder has tons of onboard effects and there is one called "Short Delay". These effects can be edited and I was able to trade the delay quality for a doubler (or "double tracking" as Sir George Martin called it in the Beatle's heyday). The reason I asked the question about the sound quality is that my previous attempts were 4-track analog (as is "Time Out" recorded in 1990). The tracks I recorded with that equipment sounded OK on headphones, but through big stereo speakers they got "washed out". The sound was so thin that it had this oscillation that reminded one of talking through an electric fan which I hated. My two new pieces were recorded on a digital unit. Through headphones they sound better than the analogs but I never heard them yet through speakers of any sizeable quality. I expect to be gettiing a new stereo by Christmas time. I thank you for letting me use your ears in this way! JB

No problem... I played them over a set of Alesis Point Sevens here, not the biggest monitors in the world but they are my favourite ones I've used...

And I do like the songs, I figured you were looking for a bit of nit picking in the response...

[Donna]

No fair, John, you stole a future thread title.

I'm just a listener but did wanto say (re: Should've known) that I like the progressions, etc a lot. I'm listening on tiny trash speakers, so there's too much hi end here. I'm not a fan of the amount of chorus (or doubling) on the vocal...a bit less is what *i* would do there.

I'm curious, do you ever practice singing this way: listen to what you've done, try again, listen, try again? Because if you haven't I think that would profit your singing (and I do this on a cheap tape recorder). More times than not I can get some kind of betterment on each suceeding "try again". It's a great way to also know what obstacles I'm up against - and my melodies are not sophisticated like Should've Known's are! You know what it's supposed to do and I'd love to hear you better able to communicate that via your voice.

It always takes me a lot of practice to learn my own songs! To get them they way I want them sung and sometimes I will break it down to sing, listen, sing, listen with a single line or even 1/2 a phrase.

Tho it does often appear like a tangent with no end, I've never regretted giving this kind of attention and I would encourage you to look upon your voice as an instrument and keep listening to it.

Please tell me in detail how you recorded this (maybe a new thread?) as I'm learning AND re-learning 4 tracking and it's great to hear so much sound via a 4-track.

[Guest voclizr]

Hi Donna;

Thanks for listening. I'll answer some of your questions/comments.

You're at least the third person who dosen't like the "doubling" on "Should've Known". The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you, but it brings an interesting question to my mind (I might start another thread for more feedback on this). When and why does one decide to use an "effect"? When is the best time to use it? Do we use effects to "dress up" a bad voice (or poor vocal performance)? Why, for example, did John Lennon (or George Martin) decide to double his voice on "I Should Have Known Better"? It's an interesting concept, but there are times when we should leave it alone. Admittedly, the only reason I doubled the lead vox on "Should" was because I did it on the original 4 track recording I made 18 years ago. I wrote this song in '87 and I promised myself that if I ever got better equipment, I redo it, which I did. In this case, my melody was already established, so I knew (for 18 years) exactly how I wanted the melody and the singing. I think, since my recorder has 10 "virtual" tracks, I'll try the lead vox again sans the doubling. My other posted song "A World Away" has echo on the lead voice, and a reviewer said he thought I should ditch it, but in that song I was trying to capture a "futuristic" feel because the lyric had to do with high tech. As far as listening to my voice: I'm NEVER totally happy with anything I record, vocally or instrumentally and I've worked hours already on recording and re-recording parts (especially vocals). In fact, my vocals are, for the most part, punched in line by line (thank goodness for Punch in/punch out function). Most of the time I just have to convince myself "Well, you might as well give it up because that's the best you're gonna get".

Recording details: Well, this was actually done on an 8 track hard disk reocrder. (I have some older 4 track stuff on IUMA). My 8 track has a built in programmable drum machine with it's own two track stereo section, so I don't have to use up any of the 8 tracks for the drum part. Anyway, after programming the drums, I recorded the keyboard part. I always double the primary keyboard part for strength. All my instrumentation (except drums) is done on a Yamaha PSR 295 (even the strings and woodwinds). After my keyboards were done I used one track for the bass part, two for the strings, two for the woodwind solos (you're hearing "soprano sax" and "flute") then a track for lead vox. I share one of the instrumental solo tracks with harmony vocal. Then I did a mix. I can do a master stereo mix right on my hard disk recorder, so I don't need an external tape deck/stereo. Then, when the mix is to my liking, I pop in a blank CD and record it to it, then put that disk in my computer and "rip" it into an MP3, the upload it for ya'all to check out.

I have worked with 4 track in the past. One thing I can recommend to you. (I think you said on another thread you have a Tascam portastudio). If you don't already have one, invest in a digital reverb unit, and patch it through your unit (if you have a "Send/Return patch on it). It's imperitive to use reverb with these units as to not have a bit of ambience sounds unnatural. My current unit has effects built in. Anyway, Donna, I'd really like to check out some of your stuff sometime. Sometimes simplistic melodies are more appealing than the more complex ones. In fact, if you think about it,some of the bigger hits are very simplistic melodies. Anyway, I hope I answered you questions here. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Here's a link to my IUMA page. These are old 4 track recordings (including an acoustic "Should've Known"). Keep in touch.

John B.

http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/John_Bowen/index-0.html

"

[Prometheus]

Hi Donna;

Thanks for listening. I'll answer some of your questions/comments.

You're at least the third person who dosen't like the "doubling" on "Should've Known". The more I think about it, the more I tend to agree with you, but it brings an interesting question to my mind (I might start another thread for more feedback on this). When and why does one decide to use an "effect"? When is the best time to use it? Do we use effects to "dress up" a bad voice (or poor vocal performance)? Why, for example, did John Lennon (or George Martin) decide to double his voice on "I Should Have Known Better"? It's an interesting concept, but there are times when we should leave it alone.

According to George Martin, John lennon had an inborn hatred of his own voice, something I can empathise with since I have an inborn hatred of mine. When to use effects is the big question. inexperienced engineers tend always to go overboard with effects. In the 1970's and 80's when for the first time engineers had a load of easily programmable effects units at their fingertips, suddenly it was effect city, with layers of effects on everything... inexperienced engineers also tend to overcompress and overEQ everything and use reverb extremely badly. The other day I was mastering a track for someone and it took me about five or six attempts till I was happy with what I'd done. It kept going from sounding too bassy and midrangy to sounding like over produced 80's pop music till I finally got a sensible balance somewhere in the middle, but back to the point, really there are no hard and fast rules over when to use effects and when not to. All you can really do is try the effect and see if you think it adds some kind of compositional benifit to the track. If not, usually I would remove it...

Another point that can't be over emphasised... After you've been mixing or mastering for over an hour without a break, your ears might as well be painted on for decoration. Your ears will adapt to any sonic imbalance after an hour or so. So when you end up mixing or mastering for hours on end, take a break every so often, go outside, and let your ears re set themselves. It's also a good idea to regularly A-B listen with commercial recordings to make sure you're getting a commercially viable balance in your product...

Here's a good tip for timing reverbs... Take the tempo of the song, for example 120 beats per minute.

Divide 60,000 by your tempo, in this case 120

And you get 500. This is the length of your quarter beat in milliseconds, so the tail of your reverb will be tempo synced with the rest of the mix. if you want a longer reverb, multiply your number by two and you'll get the sync for the half beat.

It works for compression too... (Don't try this on vocals or such, it's only really useful on beats and bass guitars)

60,000 / Number of bpm = Quarter Beat time in milliseconds

Then keep dividing your Quarter Beat Time by two until it lands between 50 and 100 milliseconds, and then you have the release time for your compressor for beats and basslines, tempo synchronised. Now turn up the attack until you get the amount of "pumping" that you want.

Edited December 3, 2005 by Prometheus

[Donna]

John, thanks for the details. I'm jealous...two tracks each for strings and winds! I've a few "keyboard" songs from the 80's and I am not a keyboard player. But I could learn some chords and "drum" an ok bass line on thhe keys. I'm crazy for strings if the song calls for it. Anyway, I think I would've done the instruments in that same order/amt as you did. Does your backround include orchestra, or interest in film/classical music? How did you come to use flute/sax + strings (just the ease of having this available via the synthesizer?).

You misunderstand what I said re: doubling the vox. I'm a great fan of unison vocals, what I commentded on was there seemed too much of an "effect" sound to it. Unison vocals are a great way to give power to the sound and a good skill for the one singing, to double their part. It forces one to listen and imitate, another tool and discipline. Anyway, have you tried easing back on the amt of that doubling effect? Or maybe it's an all or nothing deal?

As far as the punching in and out...I hope you don't mind me asking, but is it a question of breath or chops as to why you must punch in/out frequently? The frequency of having to do this probably accounts for some lack of stability communicating the singing and the end result itself. But from what I heard I get the feeling that improvement is deifinitely possible, if the will and desire are there to work on it.

I get nervous when I have to punch any part a lot (even tho I'll foget the part in a week!) When I do it, I want to PLAY it. Attitude has a lot to do with the performance and I've even had my good buddy I've known long, when he recored me, turn off all the lights and not look at me when I was singing a part, cause I got too shy or something and I couldn't PLAY.

It may sound funny to others, but it's easy to be shy with one's own self while recording alone. Esp. with singing. I remember it well, esp. those first attempts listening to my voice, I HATED it, it took like a YEAR to not cringe. But something wonderful happened after a time (though my family spouts some very good voices - not singers per se, but beautiful speaking voices and ability to mimic and change the spoken voice, so genes are a part of it). After about a year of mortification an ability was gained to begin manipulating that voice, and the first manipulation was to try to stop the stuff which sounded bad! But I still cringe, voice is so intimate. Maybe choirs have it best: lots of support in singers all around and a conductor to focus upon.

[Donna]

Prometheus, even with hatred or aversion, it can be possible to detach in order to give the song its voice. Or partly maybe it's that Lennon (or yourself) didn't like to sing, but I think that's a separate issue.

[Guest voclizr]

Donna;

You ask alot of interesting questions. I don't mind answering them. In fact, it's nice to know somebody is interested enough to ask.

My background: I started on clarinet & saxophone. I spent alot of time studying and playing classical music. I have alot of classical music in my collection, especially Beethoven, Schubert, Handel and Chopin (my stress reducer). Take my word for it, NOTHING soothes stress more than listening to some Chopin piano sonatas! Try it sometime. Anyway, I always wanted to be a film score composer. They say you don't really hear that music when you watch a movie and it just gets into your psyche, but I actually listen to it. I frequently look at the opening credit of a movie and take note of who the composer is and I try to connect with what kind of musical trickery he/she uses to get that emotion across. Music is such a powerfull tool. It's intersting that you brought up the doubling effect in "Should've". Not too long after I finished that recording, I found out that you can edit that effect and get the doubled voices as close or as far apart as you want them. I only got this recorder in mid October, and it's got so much on it, so it's still a learning experience. My first mix of "A World Away" I absolutlely HATED. It was so dull and I was really questioning whether I wanted to keep this gear or not, but after tinkering around with the machine I found that, by tweaking the EQ controls I could brighten the sounds alot. This is MUCH more complex than 4-track analog. It IS much neater to have twice as many tracks. The thing I like most about it is that when I do a mixdown I have less ques to remember, because tha more instrumentation I can put on it's own track, the more I can just "set it and forget it" as Ron Popiell says! With 4 track I'd have to share more tracks (ie instrument solo with background voice). You probably know the feeling.

As far as using flute & sax on the solos, I wanted to be true to my original clarinet arrangement on the acoustic version, but didn't want to use clarinet. My keyboard has real nice soprano sax and soft flute sounds so that was a perfect opportunity.

The punch in/out issue: I recently finished "O Holy Night" which I'm thinking of posting , but haven't completely decided if I want to yet. It took me 12 hours over three sessions to get the vocals acceptable, and even with that I still can't say I'm really happy with it, but I just reached the point where "enough is enough!" My big problem wasn't so much performance, but my recorder has a nasty habit of "clipping" on certain frequencies" For some reason, the only way to avoid this clipping is through effects. I DID NOT want to use a special effect on "O Holy Night". I wanted a straightforward vocal performance with nothing fancy, and I had to spit blood to get it without using effects! If I wanted to use an effect, I probably could've finished it in less than an hour. Now, there are some effects that you can edit so the "effect" is not so obvoius but I didn't want to compromise with this song, so the performance is a little dull sounding, but at least it's sincere! Looking back, it only took me about an hour to record the voice on "Should've" and I could kick myself because I didn't write down any settings and the intro to "Should"ve" was without effects and sounded nice and clear, and I can't remember how I got it that way. I gotta get into the habit of writing stuff down! Another problem with voice is that until recently, I haven't sang in years, so I've been "out of the loop" on that skill for awhile, and I'm 50 now and I think my ear is starting to go on me because it's not as easy to sing in tune as it used to be. I can't stand something out of tune. Especially my own stuff. It nausiates me! So, All in all, I'll get better at this with time, I think. There' alot for me to learn, and re-learn! So, now that you know more about my art, is it possible I can sample some of your's? I'd really like to hear it, if possible.

John B.

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, even with hatred or aversion, it can be possible to detach in order to give the song its voice. Or partly maybe it's that Lennon (or yourself) didn't like to sing, but I think that's a separate issue.

I find it difficult to detach myself from my vocal performances and have a vocal range of about three notes... The only way I can tolerate my singing is to sing in a deep basso like Pete Steele from Type O Negative, and swamp it in delay effects...

http://www.geocities.com/thetrueprometheus/mp3/Night.mp3

[Donna]

Extremely pressed for time, but Prometheus thank you for that bit about resting the ears. I was going to start a thread asking for tips on ear care.

Nowigottagoanddoamillionthings...

[Donna]

But first (or last) - John, I'd also been out of the loop re: singing - just keeping my fingers wet via a once a week choir (if that). Now I've gotta lose some of this...un-pop thing I've picked up.

Liked hearing your backround, I'll try Chopin (and check out Debussey (sp) - I'm sure I've ripped that man off in voicings or something, his stuff is so nice0.

Give the voice time - even w/ your ear being lost a bit (my ears lost something, too). My voice is beginning to open up a little again - never say never!

I'm waiting for the Christman Song contest "Start" date to post an MP3. I want to re-record it again - it is the first MP3 I'll have. Got old stuff on 4-track, but am a beggar right now having someone else do the copying from analogue to digital (plus I need a host site). One thing at a time.

I've a large family to care for and so everything's taking time. But I'm very happy at all the steps and STEADY progress I've made since being here. Like got my Christmas "suite" (and it was a suite) pared writing- wise down to 45-rpm version, and in record time! More progress here from writing to recording to computer stuff learning all these new things, too, than in the past 9 years.

At times, much rather work on music and conversation w/ y'all - but the babies need me and not bragging it's just reality, there's no replacement for me.

[Donna]

I find it difficult to detach myself from my vocal performances and have a vocal range of about three notes... The only way I can tolerate my singing is to sing in a deep basso like Pete Steele from Type O Negative, and swamp it in delay effects...

http://www.geocities.com/thetrueprometheus/mp3/Night.mp3

-

Prometheus thank goodness for baritones is what I say to that. It is hard to detach from vocals - why is that so? I'm convinced that if the courage to work on the voice can be mustered, it will improve. We begin learning other things easier, like a guitar.

I like your singing on "Night"; did you double the lead? And, is there a lyric page? Is your speaking voice on "Night" the range it is on the recording, or did you change that, too? Sorry if badgering - I'm interested in stuff like that. Both my siblings and children mess around a lot with their voices!

Re: "Night" the pattern of full band, breakdown interests me, some ppl are able to do that. Did you write it like that, envision that from the beginning?

Oh - wanted to add this (wonder what Finn would think?): sometimes if I can't/don't feel like practicing singing, I will talk. Had a vocal teacher long ago and he had me try to - not sing through the nose, but sort of. Had me imagine and also go thru motions of biting an apple, to overemphasize a quality I cannot explain and have not really talked about in my life (til I get here). Anyway, I sometimes monitor speaking voice and go for that apple-biting sound, or I lift it when tired. I think it helps and doesn't freak people out like singing all the time can.

(sorry John B. for hijack)

[Donna]

John - maybe one reason I bring up singing is your user name!

Did you take lessons, play in band, orchestra, both? As an adult, are there such groups to play with? As far as scoring: do it! No matter or not if you think it'll be heard. That's great. Have you manually written any scores? It reminds me of Finn, that kind of composing, he says he has many themes, and I think chooses from these to build a song.

I played alto and tenor for a while as a child but my bottom lip couldn't hack it. Being in or around woodwind and esp. string sections, in my case, it was like osmosis. You don't think it gets in you at the time,

but it does. Since you were focusing (it sounds like), a lot must've gotten in you.

That clipping thing - I don't have any suggestion but turn away or back up from the mic, lol. One song, I was practically in the next room, didn't matter. Kept the piercing chorus, it fit the song, but wouldn't on O Holy Night!

I wonder if you'd like this book I'm reading "Inside Tracks" (I'm sure the engineers like Bong and Prometheus would). It's engineer/producers speaking about recording, but many of these are musicians or writers, too. About every few pages, the engineer/producer in question brings up performance, sincerity (re: O Holy Night - dry but sincere). Very few (if any) emphasize production per se. It's been a great confirmation to do what I think in the first place: try to get a good track singing or drumming or whatever-wise. Which is not what I expected - I wanted the technicals. But they're artists, just artistic in knowing rooms and micing and boards as well.

[Guest voclizr]

Hi Again Donna;

You're right about the username. I chose it because of the singing. I "created"it about 8 years ago when I first got on the internet and needed a unique username for that. I was going to use it as a musical identity, but I decided against it. Yeah, I took lessons on saxophone, clarinet, voice, guitar & piano. A long time ago, but I had some pretty good teachers. I studied saxophone with a guy named Sam Correnti, who also taught jazz legend Gerry Mulligan (long before he taught me). Gerry spent some time in the Reading PA area when he was young and hooked up with Sam. Sam told me once that it was amazing how fast Gerry picked up on a lesson. He'd have his lesson in the morning, and by noon he'd come back to Sam's studio with it all down! Talk about people with multiple talents, Sam was an incredable artist (painter) too! Gerry mentioned Sam in his autobiography, which I don't think is available anymore (unfortunatly).

I played in local orchestras, particularly one called the Reading Philharmonic, which is a local amatuer establishment playing classical music. This was a great learning experience for me and I grew a great appreciation for the Classics through it! You're absolutely right when you say about music getting into you when you're around it. Before I played with the Philharmonic, I didn't appreciate classical music like I do now.

John B.

[Donna]

Hey John. So...you picked the name because of singing (+ took vocal lessons), well I guess it was appropo to talk about the voice then.

Wow, lessons on all those instruments!

Fantastic, your old teacher Sam. Isn't it funny how those who helped "the legends" aren't THAT hard to track down? I've my own version (beloved drum teacher, but not the fame of Gerry Mulligan!) and adored this teacher who took me on as another daughter...

Got to take 2 of my young un's to an orchestra last week. They get so used to "seeing" stuff...how different (boring!) to look up and only see the orchestra (no cartoon/game, etc). 'Cept they weren't bored always and RIGHT when they were having a time of it, the sinfonia went into a LONG medley from the Sound of Music. It was great to see them making the connection somehow: hey, this song isn't something you just turn a button on to hear, or for backround to a movie. These people (and there were many women players - probably all moms) make the music!

There was an 11 yr old soloist and boy was he a virtuoso!

I thought "it starts right here!" 'cause you never know what's going to stick w/ a little child. And the conductor spoke to some of us parents afterward - this man is on a crusade to get any children he can to partake of real live musicians playing music.

[Prometheus]

John - maybe one reason I bring up singing is your user name!

Did you take lessons, play in band, orchestra, both? As an adult, are there such groups to play with? As far as scoring: do it! No matter or not if you think it'll be heard. That's great. Have you manually written any scores? It reminds me of Finn, that kind of composing, he says he has many themes, and I think chooses from these to build a song.

I played alto and tenor for a while as a child but my bottom lip couldn't hack it. Being in or around woodwind and esp. string sections, in my case, it was like osmosis. You don't think it gets in you at the time,

but it does. Since you were focusing (it sounds like), a lot must've gotten in you.

That clipping thing - I don't have any suggestion but turn away or back up from the mic, lol. One song, I was practically in the next room, didn't matter. Kept the piercing chorus, it fit the song, but wouldn't on O Holy Night!

I wonder if you'd like this book I'm reading "Inside Tracks" (I'm sure the engineers like Bong and Prometheus would). It's engineer/producers speaking about recording, but many of these are musicians or writers, too. About every few pages, the engineer/producer in question brings up performance, sincerity (re: O Holy Night - dry but sincere). Very few (if any) emphasize production per se. It's been a great confirmation to do what I think in the first place: try to get a good track singing or drumming or whatever-wise. Which is not what I expected - I wanted the technicals. But they're artists, just artistic in knowing rooms and micing and boards as well.

I suppose I'm what you would call a pure engineer... I don't consider myself a producer as such unless I'm working on my own stuff, or unless an artist specifically asks for my advice in that context, because the responsibility of taking on that role is enormous... When I listen to songs, my mind fixes on musical and engineering aspects of the product... The unfortunate side effect of this is that I tend not to be able to listen to music for fun any more, I instantly start thinking, panning, compressors, gates on the drums, what eq is used on that vocal, that's a great contrapuntal melody being played on the Hammond B4 there... I don't just feel the song the way I did years ago before I got into all this, I can't refrain from analyzing it...

Edited December 11, 2005 by Prometheus