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roxhythe
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Posts posted by roxhythe
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Don, I like that idea.
Joe
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I agree wholeheartedly, Don. Good insights, there. I don't use bridges much myself, for the reasons you mentioned. I maintain a bridge is primarily useful for crossing a body of water that you can't ford. Or dodge. Or chevy...
Joe
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I think "Made with Real Musicians" is a great disclaimer. I think I'll use it on the next album. (I'd make it the title if I didn't already have a title.)
Joe
P.S. That you-too-can-be-a-songwriter thing sounds like just one more piece of Microsoft software I have no intention of buying.
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I was asked once to describe my music in one sentence. I told 'em, "Happy, upbeat, uptempo songs about death, lost love, betrayal, religion, and dead animals." Style? I tend to eschew style, but I guess you could call it very traditional country--Hank Williams, say, without, well, the Hank Williams.
That help? I figure it maybe confuses people enough so they'll listen...
Joe
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Actually. "ele4ctgro-punk Beethoven" makes perfect sense to me. I'd just leave it at that. If they insist on further explanation, just tell 'em, "It's pipe cleaner music, man."
When I played with The dodson Drifters, we would routinel;y be asked what kind of music we played. We decided the stock answer we'd give everybody was "Bluegrass punk." They would usually nod knowingly and go away. Worked every time.
I maintain "genre" is the box the record store is going to put your CDs in after you die. Until then, I don't plan on worrying about it. (Actually, *after* then I don't plan on worrying about it, either.)
Joe
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Lazz, that's a lot of information. Thank you.
Joe
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Ooo. I knew that would generate some comments. Here's a few thoughts:
Lazz, my comparison with the Literary Digest poll was to suggest that depending on what one is measuring, and how one is measuring it, one can draw conclusions that are at odds with reality. I can see from my own and others' experience that we are selling CDs, at gigs and online--we're just not selling a lot of them. A statistical model that doesn't show that is missing something.
I am also a little distrustful of statistics that appear to come from the Industry showing that only a handful of people--people already in the Industry--are making any sales. That strikes me as more than a little self-serving. The Industry has had a deliberate program of preventing newcomers from breaking in for a number of years now; "information" that discourages people like me from trying to break in may have more than a little political taint. I don't know, but I do not intend to let it discourage me.
Two avenues for record sales that the Industry has mostly ignored are sales at performances and sales online. They are, I think, just starting to realize those exist. For people not already benefitting from the "Star-Maker machinery," those two avenues are likely to be the most productive avenues for sales--if and to the extent that we can take advantage of them, and prevent our exclusion from them like we were excluded from radio.
Finn, the Norway rat comparison was not to diss those of you in the Northland. I was after a particular *shape* of the money distribution curve, and the Norway rat comes close, I think. I live in a seaport, and we have those things here (I expect they're called "Norway rats" because somebody decided that's where they originally came from--I don't know if they even exist in Norway). They are the size of a medium-issue dog, have largish bodies, *very* ugly large teeth and very long, very thin tails. When I worked for the Pinkerton Detective Agency in Portland, which was a seaport, our guards on the waterfront used to carry .45-caliber pistols to defend themselves against the Norway rats. Very nasty characters (the rats, that is).
Joe
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*I* think they're wrong. I do not question their data, but rather their measuring technique.
It is reminiscent of the famous poll by Literary Digest magazine in 1936, which predicted the Republican candidate for U.S. President, Alf Landon, was going to win by a big margin. LD's poll was nationwide; it was conducted according to the best scientific procedures in existence at the time. It had only one flaw. The poll was conducted by telephone. This was the middle of the Depression. Who had telephones? People who still had money and still had jobs. The people who didn't voted for Roosevelt--in big numbers.
I think the conclusion one is likely to draw from the information presented is that the recording industry has done a very good job of keeping outsiders out. If that makes the recording industry complacent, great. If they die from their complacency, well, they can join the other dinosaurs.
What I didn't see being measured here is how many records are sold *at gigs* by independent, not-very-famous artists. I have a feeling it's quite a few. No, nothing on the scale of the favorite children of the record companies--they have at their disposal what Joni Mitchell called "the Star-Maker Machinery," and it counts for a lot. But I myself have just about gone through four "pressings" of my last album in the last two years (true, they were small pressings)--I have only a handful left. And I have sold nearly every one of 'em at gigs. Next album, I'll see if I can generate some online sales. I don't know if it's possible, but it's a small investment and worth a try. And I'm small potatoes. There are people who are doing a lot more of this a lot better than I am.
My own impression, for what it may be worth, is it's a *very* long tail. It's just also very *thin". Think of a Norway rat. Big body, very long, thin tail. (Considering some of the people who populate the recording industry, a rat is not a bad analogy.) The rat probably does not think much about its tail. If the tail had independent thought, the tail might think more about the rat than the rat thinks about the tail. The rat, folks, is old and not in good health. The question I think *we* need to be asking ourselves is what happens to the tail when the rat dies. I'd like to see the tail survive without the rat, myself--maybe turn into something else rather than growing a new rat.
Joe
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Alas, I do not have any "normal" songs.<g> I am probably always experimenting, because I am determined every song sound different, but I'm still mostly working in that country-music "box." It is hard to make country music songs not sound alike.
Since I deliberately avoid controlling inspiration--it comes when and how it comes--I don't sit down and say, "Okay, today I'm going to do [insert whatever]." I will usually find an excuse at some point, however, to apply something I picked up from another writer that impressed me. They will be lyrical tricks, for the most part; I am not a good enough musician to indulge in musical creativity--though I did succeed (just once) in applying a Keith Richards-type "musical hook" to a country music song.
Since I listen to everything, but write primarily country music, I get to pick up a lot of different stuff and try to make it work in country music. Certainly doesn't sound imitative. Sometimes it even sounds different.
joe
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My only warmup, actually--and the only piece of music I fingerpick--is Arlo Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant." Since I hit every string on the guitar, usually in pairs, it tells me almost instantly if the guitar's in tune. I usually run through it enough times till I get every note perfect--then I'm ready to play.
Joe
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Timothy, happens to me all the time. I hear great stuff in my head. When I try to express it on the guitar, it comes out country music. (This is not to diss country music, by the way. I have spent most of my life in places where there are only two kinds of music--Country and Western.) It was better when I had a band--the Dodson Drifters may have officially been a bluegrass band, but we could play anything (we liked to do Ramones covers for their shock value). Alone? Sorry I appear to have limitations.
I guess I have just grown to expect it over time. I know that whatever I hear in my head is going to come out country music when I play it, so these days I just plan on it, and keep reminding myself, "Okay, how's this going to sound as country music?" And I occasionally (and eventually) will run across somebody who does a completely different style, and be able to convince them to take a stab at it and see how it sounds.
Joe
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Actually, I usually just try to pick the melody. Since I'm not that good on the guitar, I won't quite get it, but I'll be close. With luck, I'll convey the impression the deviations were deliberate (in the immortal words of Darkwing Duck as he slammed into a wall, "I meant to do that") and maybe give people the idea here's someone who really knows what they're doing. I am surprised how often it works.
Joe
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Couple thoughts.
First, do get feedback. You may think your stuff is great, but what's important for marketability is whether other people think it's great. If you can perform, do. Bottom line a record label has is whether it appeals to an audience (after all, they're the ones buying records). If you can prove your stuff does, you're ahead.
Second, if you sign up with an OMD--like Soundclick, Whitby Shores, et al.--when you post something, it's date-stamped: the Website has a very public record of what date and what time it was put on line, and that it was done by you. It is real hard for someone to rip you off under those circumstances. (Most writers are not looking to rip people off, however--they're too busy promoting their own stuff, which they, like you, think is great. And record companies don't need to rip you off. They have plenty of ways to screw you legitimately if they want to.)
Third, yes, a studio is good, but I'd use it sparingly. I don't go to a studio with anything that's not going on a record. Stuff that is going on a record I will have recorded in a commercial studio with a real band--but I will still try to cut a deal, with (say) somebody who's trying to make a name for themselves as a sound engineer. Studio time can get a tad expensive, so I try to minimize both the time and the rate.
Fourth, a lot of people are sold on computer recording. I am not one of those, so don't expect any great pointers from me. I think you probably need a good soundcard (which I don't have). There is good software out there for cheap or free, but there is a learning curve, and it does take some time.
I have what's called in modern parlance a "DAW" (Digital Audio Workstation) on which I do all my home recording. Just a little 4-channel Tascam I picked up used from a fellow musician who was getting a new one. (There are frequent deals like that out there.) I would not consider anything I did on the Tascam to be salable--but I have to have something so I can get feedback from people, and this does okay. Yes, you can do the same sort of thing on a computer, I'm told.
That help? Lots of luck--and like a bunch of folks have said, welcome. You'll get a lot of good advice here. And feedback.
joe
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I agree, I think, with just about everything Lazz said. (Thanks, Lazz.) Just a couple additional thoughts:
I found that once people know you're a writer (it helps if they think your stuff is good), *they*'ll feed you ideas, constantly. I get the majority of my ideas these days from something somebody said. I just smile, and thank 'em, and mentally file it away, knowing sooner or later, it probably will turn into a song.
A number of writers' sites I subscribe to have regular challenges of one sort or another. Often, it's the sort of thing where somebody throws out a title and you're supposed to write a song to it; sometimes, it's more complex (there was one where you had to design the album cover for a mythical band and then write the title cut). I try to participate in as many of those as I can. One thing I insist on for myself is what I come up with has got to be different from what anyone else does--without knowing what they're going to do.
I'll sometimes set myself challenges, too--usually in the form of Questions That Have to Get Answered. The Plain English Society's list of "worst cliches" prompted the question whether anyone had ever written a song that was entirely cliches; "Twenty-Four Seven" wasn't a bad love song (though my wife still hasn't said whether she likes it). When Gene Burnett asked me to contribute a song to his album of chicken songs (don't ask), I posed the question, "Why *did* the chicken cross the road?" and got "Hey, Little chicken." And, of course, the classic--when the late Steve Goodman announced that country music was always written about Mother, trucks, trains, farms, prison, dead dogs and Christmas, there weren't any songs about dead dogs and christmas, so I had to write one.
The one thing on Lazz's list that I don't do is sit down and force myself to write songs. I deliberately exercise no control over the creative process--probably out of personal preference. I just try to expose myself to a lot of stimuli, and wait for things to pop out. Sometimes they do it frequently, and sometimes not. And sometimes it'll be perfect right out of the womb, and sometimes not. (I had one that wasn't finished for three years. Sometimes that just happens.)
The thing I will do without fail is *get feedback*. I'll have the lyrics vetted by a bunch of very good writers I know, and the music by some very good musicians I know, and sometimes I'll make changes based on what they tell me, and sometimes not. (I am my own worst critic, so before I submit anything in public, it's going to be as perfect as I can make it.) And then, I'll try it out on a live audence, and see how *they* react. And I may make more changes as a result of that. The thing I watch for is whether people want to hear it again. If they do, I've got a "keeper." And I only count "keepers." I will forget the rest as fast as I can.
I should note I do do one write-without-fail thing, though it's not songs. I produce an "issue" of "The Writer's Blog" at least once a week, a little over a page in the word processor that is talking about writing, promotion, or both. I've been doing it since January 2007. I used to be a newspaper reporter, and this exercise keeps me used to writing for space and writing for deadlines--two skills I do not want to atrophy. Does it help songwriting? Maybe. Probably *everything* does.
Joe
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Audio Socket has apparently been generating quite a few "who are these guys?" questions. I know nothing about them. I did run into the following comment over on the Muse's Muse, which I'll pass on in its entirety:
Joe
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No I've never heard of them, but I checked out the site looking for red flags.
1) Is there a physical mailing address ?.... Not that I could find.
2) Presentation of their site ?.................Way too many typos for me to think they are professional.
3) Do you have to pay them to see if your songs will make them money?......Below is part of the sign up page from their site.
" Here's how this process works:
We want to hear your 4 best tracks. On the following pages, we want you to tell us about yourself. We want you to upload your four favorite highest quality tracks and then we need you to make a $15 payment. This gives our review staff the time to give your music the attention it deserves.
Once our staff has listened to your music, we will get back to you letting you know whether we've accepted your music into the catalog. Take the deal and you're in the family. "
There's enough red flags here to make me run the other way, but hey it's your money.
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Great idea, John. I don't listen to Radiohead myself (not my bag), but the principle is applicable to any genre.
Find a writer whose stuff you like. Figure out what you like about it. What is the guy/girl/band doing with words that grabs and holds your attention, and makes you remember the song as "good"? (If you're not tone-deaf like me, you may be able to apply the same considerations toward the music, too.) Then see if you can apply the trick or tricks, whatever they are, that the writer is using to your own stuff. And see how well it worked. (That's where feedback comes in.)
Repeat until, well, smooth.
Joe
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At the North American Jews Harp Festival a couple of years ago, we had a guy from Australia, who brought his digeridoo. (The NAJHF tends to attract people with weird instruments.) So when we put together a band to play one of my songs on stage, we made him play lead. A digeridoo sounds like a camel with really bad indigestion. People loved it.
joe
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I'm rather old-fashioned.
I have PhotoShop, but mostly don't use it; I have an older (1996) Adobe program, Photo Deluxe, which is more versatile where photos are concerned, and I tend to default to it. Basic "engine" for my design work is PageMaker (1999), but I've got little stuff that does things off on the side that I can dump in. I have (for instance) an odd little program called Click'n' Design that allows me to write in a circle, and I use that for, well, writing in circles (great for CD labels), and then I dump that into PageMaker. And I have an old version of Adobe Acrobat (the expensive "full" version) I use to convert the PM files into something I can e-mail to people.
PageMaker isn't a terrifically popular item these days, but I've used it since Version 1.0--including the years when I operated my own graphic-design business--so I'm kinda used to it.
Joe
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In a word, no.
I write mostly country music, and there is a danger to fall into the verse/chorus (&c.) habit. I try to avoid it. With over 50 songs now that are "keepers," it's been a bit difficult on occasion to keep each one different, but I have mostly managed. I've had songs start with the chorus, or not have a chorus at all, and sometimes the chorus will have different chords than the verses, and sometimes not. Sometimes I'll set myself weird patterns just to see if I can pull it off.
Working without a chorus is always a fun exericse. Where do you put the hook? and how few times can you use the hook and still be effective?
Joe
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Jules, I start with the bass line, too, because I can *feel* those low-frequency notes--I don't have to hear them. And the bass in most songs isn't doing anything fancy--it's just providing the "bottom" everything else is built on.
So the next step is figuring out what *chords* the notes the bass is playing belong in. That's mostly (I think) a matter of knowing how music is put together. And what progressions are appropriate for the genre you're working in.
JOe
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Jules, probably not. I don't write music--I *hear* it, 24/7, like a gigantic 8-track player on continuous loop with no on/off switch. I think of it as The Soundtrack From God. It mostly does not have words, and that's where lyrics come in. I'm really just putting words to music I already hear.
I do on occasion write (using the term "write" loosely, y'understand) music to other people's lyrics, but it really works the same way. When I'm reading their lyrics, I will hear music--like it just matched up to something from The Soundtrack From God. My job then is to try to express it, if I can.
What I'll be hearing is a *melody*, and I'll grab the guitar and try to figure out what notes those are, and what chords they're in. (Always an interesting exercise, since I'm mostly tone-deaf. Makes me feel like Beethoven.) Since it's guaranteed to come out some species of country music, my job is fairly easy--I know there will be relatively few chords, and a predictable chord structure. (I could never do jazz.) It has to be the chords, because I will envision myself performing it (and I may well perform it down the road, to see what an audience thinks of it), and I can't pick a lead and sing at the same time. What I'm doing on the guitar has to be fairly simple.
And then I'll record it. Rhythm guitar first, just playing the chords, and then the vocal on top. That'll tell me whether I picked the chords right. Sometimes, it's necessary to make adjustments. If that sounds okay ('cause it's what you'll get in a solo performance), then I'll attempt a lead. The lead will endeavor (often unsuccessfully) to replicate the melody (again, you can do that in country music).
Don't know how much that helps.
joe
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Those guys are cute! Very nice work.
Joe
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*Very* interesting. I must confess I had expected a film about household appliances. (Y'know. one probably *could* do "Dueling Blenders.")
joe
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Okay, lemme try. Somebody with more knowledge and experience really ought to come behind me and do the Right Stuff.
(1) When you have a verse, is the melody basically the words in sound form.
Yes. The melody is basically what's being sung.
(2) Is the melody the same throughout the song, & does it change during bridge and chorus.
Not necessarily, but it can be. If I want people to sing along with the chorus, I will keep it close, but I may change the beginning just a little bit, to signal people the chorus is coming. Bridges I feel are unnecessary except for crossing a body of water that you can't ford (or dodge, or chevy). A lot of people insist on them, and I ignore them. I have nonetheless written a few songs that have bridges. And sometimes I'll have the bridge have the same chord progression as the chorus, just to be perverse.
(3) Chord Progression is it just the same couple of chords repeated. (Also how does the chord work in up tempo songs, i only have a piano is it just played faster?)
Ah, now you're getting into technical stuff, that I can't explain real well without getting technical myself. Your melody is usually going to start and end on the "tonic"--that's the "name note" of the key the song is in. Initially, all the notes you sing are going to be in that "box" but there will only be three of them (usually), so it'll get pretty boring after a while. If you want a note that's not in that "box," you have to shift to a chord that's got that note in it. And then you've got *those* notes to work with. As far as knowing which chord that should be ('cause you have a number of options), that's where my technical-explaining ability fails; there are ways to tell, but I'd have to point you to a book, or to Steve, John, or Lazz.
Whatever chord changes you go through, you will always end up on that "tonic" at the end of the song (definitely), or chorus (probably) or verse (maybe). The "chord progression" is how you get from the beginning to the end. I write mostly country music, so those progressions are relatively simple and have very few chords in them; in other genres (jazz, say), it can get real messy.
And yes, "uptempo" is just poor man's Italian for "played faster."
This help any?
Joe
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Music Business Essay
in Music Industry
Posted
I have a feeling opinions are going to be what you're likely to get. (How's *that* for being unambiguous?)
I believe The Industry is hidebound to the concept of songs as "product," but you have to keep in mind The Industry these days is run by accountant types concerned with selling "units" (I have actually seen them call them that) without being too concerned about what those "units" consist of.
Writers, on the other hand--particularly those that perform--are, I think, more likely to consider what they do a *service*. It is a way of thinking that's a bit more personal and includes more respect for the individual--both the seller and the buyer.
Who's right? I have no idea. The Industry, of course, will tell you (in true Outer Limits fashion) "we control the audio, we control the video." (And I'm not sure they actually do.) As a writer, of course, I'm inclined to the other opinion.
That help any?
Joe