[Some Thoughts About the Forum's Layout]

The interface looks like this.  ^ 
The quote button is just text that says quote, and is easy to confuse with a text input box. I generally think that having so much member information next to and below every single post is redundant - if I wanted to see all that info, I could just click on the person's profile. It could at least be trimmed. 

The challenges boards are both pretty underutilized. I feel like conglomerating them into one broader "Challenges" board would be a good idea. I still don't know what is actually meant  by "Music Marketing Challenges", it doesn't have a description. 
I could make more suggestions, but ultimately they would just be a showcase of my very subjective taste. I prefer minimalism, and prefer more tag-based categorization: makes it much easier to find sort through stuff, filter out stuff, find posts, etc.

A "Resources" board would be appreciated, assimilating the VST and VSTi board. Along with that, maybe an "Analysis" board for talking about existing music made by established artists, and a "Gear" board too.

[Some Thoughts About the Forum's Layout]

The forum's pretty quiet at the moment. There's also some problems with it that I think need resolution. I have made a list of suggestions. 

1) Replies to posts often have a ton of empty space due to profile details. I think these could be condensed or hidden until hovered over. In fact the actual profile details aren't very nicely laid out, as you can see in this example "Band / Artist Name: Auburner" is formatted awkwardly as 
"Band / Artist
Name:Auburner" 
There also isn't a space between "Name:" and "Auburner". Some UI improvements could be made here.  


2) The homepage's layout isn't great either. The banners on top of each board only add clutter, I think simple icons next to each board's name would keep them visually readable while removing unnecessary clutter. 

3) There are a lot of unused boards, and some boards that I think the forum is lacking. Some sets of boards could definitely be consolidated together. I'd also like a board to discuss and analyze tracks by well known, successful artists - to try and learn from what they do right and what they do wrong. 

4) The text editing window for making posts is pretty ugly, and once again has a lot of redundant empty space. 

[Current music vs 'old'?]

I agree somewhat, but there are plenty of recent acts that are legitimately quality and fascinating. In my opinion there isn't any more trash than there was before, but thing is - we don't remember that shit. There was plenty of filler garbage in the past, but it hasn't really been preserved or cherished. We're just more exposed to the modern stuff. 
Definitely more complex than that. The modern music scene is drastically different from what it was 50 years ago, but we do always need to aware of survivorship bias. 

[Heya guys! My names ian/iana and i'm new here]

KILL KRYPTO is a great name, haha
Welcome to songstuff! 

[Why is no one here talking about AI Music?]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:46 AM, GregB said:

I've now spent 50 years with technology either working in IT or, since I retired, watching developments and just using it, e.g. for home production of music, video and images.

 

While I'm used to the pace of change and occasional breakthroughs, I've honestly been stunned by the very recent rapid surge of change in chip architecture, AI, robotics and quantum computing, all seemingly intertwined.

 

Previous commentators had smugly said that human creativity would always be ‘safe’ ... but such predictions have proved worthless. You can now simply describe what you want and then find something you like from an avalanche of quick results, or else choose one result and refine it further.   For me, this started in 2023 to images (MidJourney 5, Dall-E3, etc.) and writing (ChatGPT4) , and now in early 2024 for video (Sora, LXT) and music (Suno, Udio, and now 11ElevenLabs).

 

And most scary of all, each of these developments is  a BIG advance over previous versions and the competition.  E.g. Sora does 60-sec video clips, while Eleven Labs delivers songs of 3mins+.

The majority of Songstuff folk are musicians/somgwriters/producers, so check out Udio and 11ElevenLabs ... they aren't even released yet at version 1!  I'm stunned not only at their speed of song delivery from a text prompt, but also at the quality of the components/mix.  To recreate any of their examples would take me hours (and that's without the writing!) and no way could I do better job.  They use multiple instruments, song arcs, and lyrics that interact with the musical rhythm.   Admittedly, the examples are quite generic and genre-specific but, hell, most of the listening public are NOT into complexity or subtlety ... they just want something they 'like' and can tap their feet to.  And how much better will they be in 6-12 months?

 

Why would a film company pay $'000s for rights to your music for the soundtrack when they can specify and tailor exactly what they want, basically for pennies.  Why would Spotify/Apple offer an open marketplace to attract you and me when they can generate thousands of tracks themselves and then fill/promote the relevant playlists, earning both streaming and royalty revenues.

 

Yes. No one is going to pay to see AI in a live gig (... yet!).  I don't know what it's like in YOUR country but, here in Australia, 50% of the annual Music Festivals have now gone broke ... red-tape/licenses, Health and Safety regulations, insurances, security, staging costs, inflation, etc..  There's also steady stream of music venues closing their doors after decades of featuring new and established acts.  The touring musicians themselves face sky-rocketing costs of travel and accommodation.

 

I'll still get pleasure from playing for myself and friends, and listening back to my music productions (did I REALLY do that?). 

 

So ... unless you have some ideas to the contrary ... I reckon the old idea of music and music creation is well and truly f*cked.  

 

Greg


 

While the technology is impressive, I haven't seen a single instance of AI art I actually liked. I don't think it's replicating human creativity, and I don't think it ever will get to that point, no matter how much data we feed it. It's something else, something we don't really have the words to describe just yet. Art without a creator, without perspective. And art is ultimately all just perspective - knotted, convoluted human perspective is what makes art interesting. The worst art is the art that doesn't believe in anything, that doesn't mean anything, art with no soul. That's what category AI art falls under. 

Along with that, AI is just terrible for making music in general. I've tried to work with it and found the process deeply unsatisfying. Even if it could produce finished pieces of any artistic merit, it's depriving me of the process of creation, the feeling of strumming the guitar chords, of adjusting synth parameters, of attacking the drum kit. Building an idea and following it through to completion, discovering the song as you make it. The flow. The catharsis of finally getting something *perfect*. If I could use AI to just do that part for me... why would I? Why would I want that? Sure, it's difficult, there's definitely a desire to skip past the painful part, but skipping past the relief part too? Skipping past the satisfaction and joy? No. Making art with AI completely removes me from the creative process, I become an editor and at the end of the piece I feel nothing. People like making art - so art will always be made. 

Unfortunately this only proves that AI is useless for musicians and music fans. For the industry though, I'd probably agree with you. Some rich f*cker in a suit now has another person he can discard, and he absolutely will if he can make a profit off of it. People already endlessly consume empty art to fill the space in their lives. That's a problem with the culture, and a problem with capitalism (though one that I think people are already becoming increasingly critical of). 
The value of art is going to drop. Art made by humans will always exist, it is incapable of dying, but less people will demand it. That might mean I can't make enough money to live, but this is a hill I'm willing to die on: I love people. I love art. I love connecting with people through art. 
 

[Auburn - of Auburner]

On 4/26/2024 at 9:22 PM, VoiceEx said:

Welcome to Songstuff @Auburn!

 

You've mentioned that you love music for its ability to tell stories and that you also "gravitate to the more extreme and violent sub genre". If that's the case then I have a question for you. Speaking as a fictional writer, one that also happens to enjoy exploring gritty sounds and dark concepts, may I ask, is there a way for me to check out some of your work?

Unfortunately, with limited resources and very little free time, things are progressing at a snail's pace. It will be a while before I have anything to show for my effort unfortunately... but when I have something, I'll be sure to post it.  

[Some Questions about the Forum]

Ah, thanks for the explanation. I'll stick around for a while, see how it goes. Cheers!

[Auburn - of Auburner]

I do record and produce my own work. Still in early stages, but I'm scraping together a workable setup. And yes, limitations have seriously influenced the music I've made. I'm trying to make music that benefits from the rough edges that I can't smooth out, rather than suffer from them. 
 

[Some Questions about the Forum]

New user here, wondering how active the forum is. It seems there aren't many users online, the ones who are all being guests. 
Is this forum generally frequented by people in a specific timezone, or is it dead? What kind of styles of music are most common here, and what boards are most active? Along with that, what other general music forums are there that I should join alongside this one? 

[Auburn - of Auburner]

Hi, I'm Auburn, I'm starting my career in music under the name Auburner. I'm here to ask questions, ask for critique, and share my art. 
I want to explore hip-hop, experimental, and rock music. All done with punk abrasiveness and political brutality. Inspired by bands like clipping, Merzbow, Death Grips, and Boris. Yes, I do indeed have something wrong with me, some kind of worm in my brain I reckon. I'm a skilled writer and I can play guitar fairly well, as well as keys. I have a basic grasp of music theory and a fairly good intuitive understanding of my instruments, I can also sing and rap. Quite busy at the moment, and not really a good pick for collaboration. However, I may ask for some collaboration from others for my own project later down the line. 

I love music for its ability to tell stories, and as such I enjoy many different genres. From hardcore, to rock, to indie, to dream and art pop, to jazz, to hip-hop, to harsh noise and industrial - I find that all these genres have important stories to tell. I do tend to gravitate to the more extreme and violent sub genres, probably cuz of the brain worm. 
I'm on a low budget, and have a DIY attitude towards music. Also extremely lacking in gear. I want to learn, and as long as you're constructive about it, I appreciate all criticism.