[Songwriters Looking To Lose More]

But how does that effect whether payment is made for use of a songwriter’s work?

To be continued….

Well, we still need the performing rights organizations to look after that part of process -- BMI, ASCAP, SESAC, and whoever else is out there providing the same service.

By the way, the graduates are nieces and nephews. The garden is my Father's.

bluage

[Songwriters Looking To Lose More]

I think you express yourself very ably - but what you had to say wasn't really much anything to do with the issues in the story to which I linked.

[Songwriters Looking To Lose More]

Howdy, fellers...

Lazz, in retrospect I can see how my generalization about the "big labels" could incite a challenge to that generalization by a label owner, although I was only speaking of the so-called "major players" like Sony, EMI, Warner, and Universal. Recently I read (and I'm sorry I don't remember the source) that these 'big four" control about seventy per-cent of the global music market, and about 80% of the United States market. But since I didn't list them in my intial response, that makes what I wrote a generalization.

John, I received your response with interest and enthusiasm, but I'm not sure precisely what you were reacting to most fervently in my intial response, so I'm gonna ask you for a little clarification, if you don't mind. You indicated that the pitch of your response was not necessarily directed at me personally, and I accept that. Nonetheless, it's obvious that what I wrote induced a potent reaction regardless of who, or what, you were directing it at. So, I'm interested in knowing where and how my words provoked you.

What I thought I was saying in my intital response was that us composers / songwriters could bypass some of the most common problems (creative, financial, and promotional) associated with the largest and most propserous music producers by seeking out our own outputs for our creations, which I believe is where the Internet could be most serviceable. Obviously, I didn't get that across as clearly as I wanted to.

"I am angered by the general public perception that somehow things have worked out that music is not valued, nor are musicians, nor songwriters and none of the above are due fair recompense."

Would you tell me what it was in my response that summoned this feedback from you? I'm not aware of how anything that I wrote could have suggested disregard for music, musicians or their right to "fair recompense".

Just for the record, I certainly don't approve of illegal downloading.

"Should songwriters expect to go unpaid, or for that matter to simply hand over their songs for free and go work as a waiter? Years of investment, years of training and a lot of hardship... for nothing? Simply put, it's people's livelihoods we are talking."

Certainly not! Was there something I wrote that suggested my advocacy for that idea?

Let's keep this going. I'm looking at this discussion mostly as a way to learn how to present my written ideas in a fashion that appears less subjective, and more clarified.

bluage, beholden

[Songwriters Looking To Lose More]

Either you are mistaking me for someone else or it's about time I began to feel insulted.

.

Hello, "Lazz"...

Well, you got me squinting on that one! I'm not sure I understand your reply. Come again, would you?

bluage

[Songwriters Looking To Lose More]

Gents...

Other than "YouTube", I'm not familiar with any of the European music industry players mentioned in the article. However, I consider the pitched and contentious battle over the revenue to be gleaned from artistic productions of any kind to be a depressingly familiar and tiresome capitalistic conundrum, and largely a catfight between equally greedy entities.

Contrary to popular opinion that says the music industry scours the planet tirelessly looking for the next, fresh, young talents, I believe that the cost of managing such a gargantuan search party is actually prohibitive and way too time-consuming for greedy execs. I believe the music industry barons make musical hits out of creating a scarcity of product, not unlike the diamond industry. In other words, if the marketing forces that promote "new talent" focus more or less exclusively on only a few artists that they can mould, make-over and manage in a cost-efficient way, then only those few artists will ever truly have a chance of becoming "hit-making" performers. That's the reason for all the hyperbole that's generated for the few superstars who rake in such massive profits for the labels. If you repeat something often enough, people will believe it. So-and-so is a "musical genius", another so-and-so is "authentic, the Real McCoy", and yet another so-and-so is "redefining the genre", “stretching the boundaries”, a “real crowd-pleaser”, and so on, and on, and on... They tell us who and what we should listen to, and because we so often attribute success and quality of product to an association with a famous, well-known producer of that product (the larger, most visible music labels, in this case), we believe and buy accordingly.

I regularly purchase downloaded music from new artists whom I find exciting off of music sites all over the Internet, like CD Baby and others. I think people will pay what they believe the music they listen to is worth, without help from anonymous "taste-makers", critics, and whoever else sets themselves up to be the so-called experts. The optimal medium and the great leveling ground for the distribution of musical works at this time in history is the Internet. Just as musicians of old roamed the land "playing for their supper", we also have the same opportunity to profit from our creations; only the landscape has changed from dirt to cyberspace.

All we have to do is come down off of our unrealistic expectations of overnight success and multi-million dollar contracts, work on our craft, bypass the giant, monopolistic record companies and calmly push our little boats into the great and diverse musical streams of the Internet. We’ll find our audience without all this…this other stuff. And if we happen to find out that we can’t support ourselves that way, then it’s time re-assess our career options, you know? Take up brick-laying, or veterinary medicine, or making kites for kids…

bluage

[New Pc Speaker From ... Orange?]

I am a sceptical "consumer" (Ooo, but I hate the way our corporate culture-makers have branded us!), too, especially since in the past I have foolishly and naively purchased so much music-making equipment that ultimately didn't serve me very well.

However, at first glance, this "Orange" thing appears to be simply a big, room-filling speaker and computer built into a single enclosure. Not a bad idea, if you're looking to cut down on the amount of peripheral hardware you need to carry around.

I believe that at the level of skill I currently possess concering music production, that I have everything I truly need. This product might be an option worth considering for someone who is just setting out to build their "studio"...

bluage

["american Songspace" Website]

Dear "tunesmith" & Lazz...

Thanks for the information. I get suspicious of ANY agency that claims to be interested in "helping" creative people to advance their careers. On the "Opportunities" page of the American Songspace site, the artists that they advertise as looking for songs are fairly heavyweight performers, often of "superstar" status, people like Keith Urban, Darius Rucker, etc. It's hard to believe that such vaunted musical personalities would be casting about the Internet for creative assistance, you know? Makes me think the website promoters are trying to put stars in the eyes of amateur songwriters for deceptive purposes.

Years ago when I was writing screenplays I solicited the services of an agency that purported to offer help to writers seeking to secure contacts within the film industry. The letter they sent to me in response to my inquiry was so slickly written that I immediately distrusted them. So, as a test of their sincerity, a week later I sent another inquiry under a different name and address and describing a screenplay written in an entirely different genre. Days later I got a another letter that used the exact same wording as the first one, praising the "originality" of my concept, extolling how eminently marketable my screenplay was, and exhorting me to sign-up with them -- and, get this -- before someone stole my idea. Juh-eee-sus!

bluage, beware

["american Songspace" Website]

Here is a link to the "American Songspace" website. The site features an "Opportunities" page that announces the names of familiar musical performers and bands that are looking for songs submitted from "outside" the industry. Most of the artists appear to be working in the country/western genre.

http://www.americansongspace.com/opportunities

This is how the site advertises itself:

"American Songspace is an Inter-web subsidiary of American Songwriter magazine, specifically designed for songwriters - and other groups within the songwriting community, like music publishers - to network and collaborate with fellow songwriters.

The site provides an accessible platform for an artist's songs to be heard by end-user music industry personnel. American Songspace revolves around the craft and business of songwriting, and, in theory, will amount to more than posting your music someplace on the Internet.

The site consists of Interactive, user-submitted content. It is intended for amateur musicians, writers, singer/songwriters, bands, music supervisors, publishers, labels, A&R, advertising agencies, songpluggers, Performing Rights Organizations, studios, and other industry professionals."

If you would consider joining, make sure you read the "User Agreement" beforehand.

Anyone have any experience with this outfit? Advice? Warnings?

bluage

[Advantages/disadvantages Vs. Traditional Instruments]

Hello there. I'm a journalism student working on a piece on the growing community of those who are using computers as their primary music making outlet rather than traditional instruments. I was wondering if there would be anyone in this forum who would be able to answer a few questions about making music with computer software rather than guitars and other instruments. These would just be basic questions, likely to be exchanged with emails. Questions would probably include:

1) Is it more or less cost efficient to create music with computers and software over buying guitars or pianos?

2) Is it easier for beginners to create using computer programs?

3) Does the versatility and range of computer programs allow you to be more creative?

4) Do you prefer to make music with traditional instruments or computer programs?

If anyone would be willing to help me out here, I would be grateful. If anyone doubts my standing as a journalist, I can find you some of my other work.

Hi, PR...

I'd like to answer your questions. I use music-making computer software exclusively because I don't know how to play any musical instruments with the kind of proficiency that would further my songwriting endeavors. My answers will be in the order of your posted questions.

1) For me, the cost efficiency issue is debatable, because I started buying software and hardware before I really knew what I was doing. Over a period of about five years or so, I have become more knowledgable and judicious about my needs and what to acquire to meet those needs most practically and efficiently. At the moment I am quite satisfied with what I've purchased and I don't foresee making any more purchases in the near future based on need.

2) As far as ease of use of computer programs goes, I would say that the best results come from reading and applying the information presented in the manuals, which is a matter involving discipline...and that means practice, practice, and more practice. Seeking out help from the computer music forums on the Web is also very useful.

3) I don't believe that musical creativity arrives directly from using music-making software. The technical challenge of creating music with software can be daunting without a sufficient understanding of music theory, MIDI implementation, and audio production. Rather, it's the desire to express one's self musically that motivates the user to explore and utilize the tools available in the software to realize the musical inspiration that he/she has within. Without that inspiration, it's not likely that any music will be produced, ever.

4) Making music with computer software is not an option for me since I don't play any musical instruments well enough to realize my musical aspirations.

I hope this helps. Sincerely,

bluage

[Who Cares About Songwriters?]

This is the friendliest and most professionally conducted music-oriented website / forum I've ever participated in. Only a month has passed since I joined and already I wish I could meet you folks in person, talk the talk and walk the walk about m-u-u-u-sic...

Hey, all you hep cats an' swingin' sisters! Right 'bout now I'm diggin' the foot-tappin', finger snappin' and oh-so-cool Hammond organ and tenor saxophone soundz of Shirley Scott and Stanley Turrentine blowing a swingin' storm up on the album, "Blue Flames"...

"By-yoobie doo-ba-zop, ah-shoo bop ah-dooie!

Weeeeeee, op shabba doobie yoo-ba baby, ow!"

Uh-oh. My downstairs neighbor is pounding on her ceiling...

bluage

P.S. Sorry about busting up the original topic of this thread!

[Who Cares About Songwriters?]

Alright, okay, that tears it! I've had it up to "here" with all the cracks about "Band-in-a-Box"! Why, I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll BLOW YOUR MANUSCRIPT PAPER DOWN!!! (smile, laugh, guffaw!)

Seriously, my es-steamed (pun intended) fellow songwriters. "Band-in-a-Box" is just a tool. Honest! That's all it is. I use it all the time to develop my songs from scratch. In fact, you really can't get anything useful out of the program if you don't know something about music theory, like chord progressions for starters. The only "shortcut" provided is the automatic musical accompaniment, which only serves to allow you to hear your song with various instruments performing along with your chord changes.

If I had the money and the time to hire actual musicians to play my music...I'd still use "Band-in-a-Box" because I believe the musicians would benefit as much from hearing the software's musical accompaniment as by reading the notated music on paper. If you haven't given it a try, I really think you should, or at least seek out others who use it and consider their opinions. If you work on getting the "right" chords and progressions, the result will cause your jaw to drop, 'specially if it's already broken! (smile!).

Lately, P.G. Music, the manufacturer, has introduced a concept called "Real Tracks" and "Real Drums", which are digitized audio snippets of actual musicians playing real musical instruments. The program developers have found a way to cause the recorded performance(s) to actually follow your key and chord changes, and I mean seamlessly, ladies and gents! People who have heard my songs have occasionally believed that they were listening to actual musicians. "A computer made that?! Get outta here!"

As you can see I'm pretty ecstatic about "Band-in-a-Box", but it's only because I got started in music very late in my life, and having such a wonderful tool to compose music with has been a true godsend for me. It's shortening my learning curve because I can hear the result of what I'm learning about music theory instantly, so its educational value to me has been darn near indispensable.

Well, that's enough, already, eh? I gotta call my sponsors at P.G. Music and tell 'em to mail me another check for promoting their product...!

bubbling bluage

P.S. I...I..(quit stalling, already, man. Confess!) Okay, okay...I, uh...I use Microsoft Songsmith, too! Moo-hah-hah-hah! (Hat's off to Mr. Moxey for the "Moo-hah-hah-ha" bit!)

[Approach To Writing A Song]

It would be fun to keep this going . . .

I actually "write a song" with music paper. Well, these days with an open-source scoring program (that is quite good and runs on everything).

I start with a key and noodle around with intervals. Look for an arrangement of four or five notes that seems to be going somewhere. Look for various possible arrangements of those notes. Sketch a bunch of those out, with several measures of rest between them. One or two of them usually hop out. I work with those.

Various things you can try... copy and paste, shift 'em up and/or down, flip 'em end-for-end or upside down. Change the length of notes. Insert some rests.

I usually work in silence, strange as that may seem. Humming to myself. Occasionally turning the sound on to listen to a phrase.

Eventually, what comes out of all this a lead-sheet. It's just a single line of melody. I block-in the very basic (I, IV, V) chord structure just to give a sense of what it might sound like in some sort of a setting. It's not intended to last; just to make it sound a bit more encouraging than just a single line of notes.

Usually, by this time, something definite has begun to take hold. So, taking the idea phrase-by-phrase I start writing out (on the computer) more detailed ideas of different possible versions of the various possible lines. I do not know which one(s) I am going to use yet, and I am very meticulous to keep them all. There is, in a folder, every file I ever did of every song (there aren't many yet) that I ever write, or tried to write. One folder (containing subfolders) is called TrashCan, and yet it is not the Trash Can. Time Machine is always running once-an-hour (or sooner) on my Mac, and nothing goes into the trash, no matter how snarly. Nothing.

Strangly, there aren't any lyrics yet. Quite a bit of my stuff does not have lyrics at all. Yet. And I've also got ideas for lyrics, poems and such, that do not have songs to go with them. Yet. Ditto the idea of keeping every version, every scrap of everything.

I really wrestle with it, I'm afraid. Copy and paste phrases from one page into another trying to stitch them together into a cohesive piece that makes sense. Usually don't get it right. File-away the abortive attempt (don't delete it!) or "Save As," and keep going. Days go by that way. But, poco a poco, it actually works for me.

When a song finally gets as good as a lead sheet can make it, it's time to try to arrange and orchestrate the piece into something that can be played. Usually by someone with much better technical skills on the keyboard than I actually possess. Or, by the computer, which plays better than I could ever dream to. "Orchestration and arranging" is what I'm really trying to self-study and master right now.

Anyone else out there?

Dear Mr. Robinson, John, roxhythe, Boff, and company...

I'm working daily to increase my fluency in writing notated music, and I mean I am working hard! I am burning alive (complete with roiling, acrid, choking smoke and revoltingly charred skin!) with the desire to one day sit down with another musician and work together on a composition or a performance, completely assured that we're communicating thoroughly and creatively using the literal language of music.

I am also deeply and lovingly enamored of the skills that orchestrators and arrangers possess. That a single human being can use their minds to catalog the sounds of musical instruments in all their various modes of performance, and then use their hearts to organize the resulting sounds into something harmonious and emotionally stimulating, is profoundly impressive to me. I worship Pop/Jazz musicians like Henry Mancini, Duke Ellington, Michel Legrand, Burt Bacharach, Johnny Mandel, the classical composer/orchestrators such as Stravinsky and Ravel, and craftsmen such as Bernard Herrmann who orchestrate(d) their own film scores, and others who bring so much happiness into this world through their musical gifts. I wish you well with your stated goal of self-study.

HOWEVER...until that day arrives when I can follow a printed musical score I'll be constructing songs in this way, which obviously begins with an inspiration. For me, that flare, that sunburst, that inner phone call of an idea has most often come to me in one of three specific ways:

1) Swinging like a monkey from the tail of another melody that I may be working on. That happens so often that Ive got more melodies recorded than I have lyrics to fit them.

2) An insight that occurred in the immediate wake of an emotional experience of any type, happy, sad, whatever;

3) In the aftermath of observing a human being or beings doing or saying something really unusual, something I have no prior experience with and cannot for the life me understand or comprehend. I will think about what Ive witnessed or overheard until I find a way to explain it to myself. Its like solving a problem. Most of the songs and lyrics I have written that I am particularly happy with have come about as a result of me trying to get my head around some startling example of human (or even animal) behavior.

I wear a sporting/utility vest with lots of pockets, into which I have crammed, stuffed, and shoved a leather-bound, pocket-sized, ruled journal to write down lyric ideas; a small portable cassette recorder to sing melodies into, and plenty of No. 2 pencils. Along with the tools of my day job and other personal items, my vest has become heavy enough to shield me from lethal doses of radioactivity! (Smile!)

The musical and lyrical ideas ALWAYS come when I am not thinking about them. Ive taken note of this and will do absolutely nothing to force them out of me. Never works. Never. The attempts to wrench creativity out of me just make me mad and frustrated and feeling sorry for my itty-bitty ol self, and...Hey, wait a minute. What am I talking about! Feeling sorry for myself feels good! Seriously, though, its become an article of faith with me that once my mind and heart start acting like they need other and bubble up with song ideas, the end is near. Now, I dont mean that everything comes in a rush. Far from it! But it comes eventually, even if only...one...word...at...a...time...Z-z-z-z-z-z....Huh? Oh, yeah. Right. I was writing a song....

Then, I take all this stuff to my Band-in-a-Box program and play with chords and progressions and time signatures and breaks and holds and shots until what I hear through my earholes is what I feel in my heart.

Ive gotta end this before Mr. FinnArild gets after me for posting such a lengthy reply...(Another smile!)

I wish all of you well in your endeavor to fill up the silence in our lives with music...

bluage

P.S. Hey, Boff! As far as I’m concerned, every song idea is a “beginner’s” idea, man. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Finish your songs even if they don’t make musical or lyrical sense. They’ll straighten themselves out, if you want them to, believe me. You finished posting your thoughts in this forum, didn’t you?

[What Software Do You Use?]

Hey guys

What music software do you use? What DAWs, soft synths, soft samplers, effects, audio editors do you use? What do you rate as good/poor?

Cheers

John

Howdy, Mr. Moxie...

I use Band-in-a-Box to compose my songs, then drag them naked and slimy into my sequencer, Cakewalk Music Creator Pro 24. There, I patch in sounds and samples from Big Fish Audio's First Call Horns, Vir2's V.I. One sampler, Garritan Jazz and Big Band, Native Instruments B4 II Hammond Organ, Miroslav Philharmonik, Edirol Orchestral and Super Quartet, Zero G's Sounds of the 70's and Satin Grooves. After converting my MIDI tracks to audio I use Celemony's Melodyne Editor and Sony Sound Forge for tweaking and editing. More rarely I use Sibelius to print scores that I read to increase my comprehension of written musical notation.

As far as rating the quality of my experience with the software, only one of the above-mentioned programs presented a real problem as far as software-hardware conflicts and "bugs" go, but that particular issue was recently put to rest in a new version of the software. In general I would rate their user-friendliness as good to excellent. I believe strongly in reading manuals and using tutorials. Everything I need is there if I just take the time to learn the proper way to get to what I want to hear.

'Bye, now!

bluage

[Band-In-A-Box]

In a word, haphazard... I like the program, I even bought the full version, which I thought was worth the money for the StyleMaker alone. I can't really say how it compares to BiaB. There is a learning curve with Onyx, part of that for me was my limited knowledge of MIDI. Even the free version of Onyx comes with a number of well-implemented styles, many based on well-known songs. I find most of the styles sound too busy, however, so if you're looking to generate accompaniment for a demo it will come out pretty cheesy unless you do a little (or a lot of) tweaking to get the parts to fit. It does have a lot of capabilities for tweaking the data it generates, and I've barely scratched the surface in that area. One thing that's pretty quick to do... say you want a funky bass line in the style of James Brown, pick the appropriate style, solo the bass track and it will generate a part based on the chords you select. You can then adjust the parameters it uses to choose notes, making the line simpler or more abstract. In that way you can build an arrangement track-by-track... I also like that it generates cc data that goes a long way to bringing life to horn parts, for example, which is essential for me, since I basically have no practical knowledge arranging horns, but I can still get something that sounds passably authentic if I need to. The preceding is if you want to use it properly, I think the fun is mostly in abusing it, however, which is a whole other post if you're interested...

Oui, monsieur, merci!

Dear "Retro"...

Thanks for your in-depth response! Since learning how to utilize music software is such a technically challenging experience for me, I tend to stick with what I'm using. However, Ntonyx's Style Enhancer sounds promising. Anything that can "humanize" MIDI performances is worth exploring.

The learning curve for Band-in-a-Box gets less steep the more I work with it. I've used it since 2004. As far as "humanizing" MIDI data, I'm slowly but surely teaching myself how to manipulate CC data via the pitch and modulation wheels as well as the sustain pedal on one my keyboards. With a some practice I have been getting better at creating guitar bends and other performance effects for reeds and brass instruments that add a teeny bit of realism to my tracks. But most of all, it's fun!!!

However, one of the most exciting and musically inspiring discoveries I made concerning the use of music software was when I purchased Melodyne audio editor from Celemony, a German outfit. It enables you to tweak the audio tracks you make after converting MIDI to audio. It has lots and lots of features for manipulating audio. You can adjust pitch, stretch the time almost infinitely, and play with something called the "formant", which can change the timbre of any instrument to make it sound like something else, like changing a trumpet sound into a trombone, or adding effects like flutter-tonguing to a flute track. It's got a simple and elegant interface and if you read the manual and apply what it teaches you, the results can be tremendously thrilling to hear...

So, where do your "retro" tastes in music lead you to most often?

Talk to ya' later,

bluage

[Band-In-A-Box]

Not Band-in-a-Box particularly, but I do use an auto arranger (ONYX Orchestrator, by name) to generate parts & ideas.

Hey, there, Mr. Rex...

Thanks for responding! I've visited Ntonyxx's website in the past. How would you describe your experience writing songs with ONYX Orchestrator?

Does the word "Retro-" in "Retrosaurus Rex" indicate an affinity for 'retro' music, as in the music of yesteryear?

My best to you,

bluage

[Dave Frishberg On Frank Loesser]

Hello, folks...

Here's a link to songwriter Dave Frishberg's reminiscence about a lecture on song creation that he received from Frank Loesser, composer of evergreens such as Baby, It's Cold Outside, and the songbook for the Broadway musical, Guys and Dolls:

http://www.davefrishberg.net/about_songwriting.php

Although we all end up writing lyrics and composing music from our unique personal worldviews and emotional make-up, nonetheless I find an unexpected degree of inspiration in Mr. Loesser's seemingly heartfelt dedication to the idea of songwriting as a craft, firstly, out of which art hopefully will manifest itself.

And now, it's time to laugh!

Q: How is an orgasm like a drum solo?

A: You can tell it's coming but there's no way to stop it.

Q: Why don´t Penguins like rock music?

A: They only like sole.

Talk to ya' later, alligators!

bluage

[Band-In-A-Box]

Hello, folks...

Does anyone use Band-in-a-Box to write songs with?

Thank you,

bluage

[Myspace Bids To Pay Musicians 'lost' Royalties]

Folks...

Here is a link to an article posted today on Yahoo News, "MySpace bids to pay musicians 'lost' royalties":

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/entertainmentmusicindustrymideminternet

bluage

[What Makes A Song "good" For You?]

Hey

Taste is an interesting subject. One of the many ways we measure the world. What makes a song good for me, might make it terrible for you, however there is common ground. In essence songwriting guidelines are there tp serve as a prompt, a reminder to songwriters of some of those common aspects of like-ability, aesthetic appeal..

So, I'm interested to see what answers you come up with in describing what exactly it is that gets your attention, what keeps it and makes you want to come back for more...

Cheers

John

Hello, John...

It's almost always been the music that makes a song "good" for me, from the intro to the ending. In fact, when someone asks me to help them recall a favorite song, I usually only recall the melody, because most often the lyrics are an afterthought that I rarely remember, unless they stood out in some unique way, It's only been since I started writing songs a few years ago that I purposely began listening to song lyrics.

It's like, the melody is the words, and if the melody evokes really strong feelings, then and only then do the lyrics come...

bluage