[Copywriting]

Firt time I have seen that sheet from Oz. It more or less says what I think we already have and what is in our topics and articles on the topic, but it is a good summary sheet.

If I remember correctly Canada also has a central copyright registration service... I could be wrong.

Yea well a reasonably cluey bloke wrote quite a bit of it.

I have checked on the loc faq and I can't find where they have issued a similar advice 

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/

I think they should.

 

I am not across Canadian copyright law so I don't know. 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[Copywriting]

Hi John

 

 I think you misunderstood my first post on this probably my fault for using legal Jargon.

"These services are businesses they may even be quangos but they are about making money. "

Quangos refers to the LOC. It stands for Quasi Autonomous government organizations. You can see why we have a nick name.

The LOC is a revenue centre for the US government. Although to be fair a lot of that comes from the mandatory publication lodgments.

I am aware that all others in the UK etc are private businesses.

 

Now on the merits of LOC registration.

On the Basis of "We are affording you protection it therefore behooves you to follow the correct procedure if you want me to hear your case" Paraphrasing a US circuit court Judge. If you do not register your song before taking legal action, you run the risk of a circuit court judge refusing to hear your case. Even though you are legally entitle to protection. He can do this because of precedent law. In addition  the case cannot be escalated for statutory damages.  Having said that a musician does not need to know all that, that's what entertainment attorneys are for. What a musician does need to know is what is and isn't copyrightable, and what he has to prove if infringed so as to protect himself by creating evidence of creation. He must also understand that he limits his remedies if he does not register. In that he can receive actual damages, but he can not receive statutory punitive awards, and court cost awards, if the song is not registered prior to infringement. Or within three months of publication.

 

So to make it quite clear  you  must register your song with the LOC if you want to maintain the remedy of punitive damages. The time you have to do this is up to five years from publication, and prior to infringement. Or up to 3 months from publication. 

 

You must register your song prior to taking court action in the USA.

 

If you don't register your song prior to infringement you can still get actual damages i.e. the royalties and destruction orders for the infringing work.

 

So is it worth registering a song to protect your right to statutory damages and costs?

Answer maybe not,  The reason being I am only aware of statutory damages being awarded where someone has blatantly done something wrong.

In all song copyright cases I am aware of, the infringer will plead unintentional plagiarism. He will admit he's substantially similar, yes he's after you, Oh I must have heard the song, and it was in my subconscious. I have no knowledge of any US judge awarding statutory damages in the light of such a defense.

 

So I think you have an extra remedy that you are most likely never ever going to get to use. 

 

So what I am advocating is.

If your work is published and you are domicile in the US you should register your work within three months. This will protect your remedy of statutory damages which you may never use but you never know. 

If you are not domicile in the US and wish to avail yourself of the US jurisdiction, register your work within three months of publication.

Posting a song on songstuff and putting a link to a file on sound cloud is not publishing. The work is not published.

Therefore if you are not published and infringed then you can go and register the work and proceed with your case and remedy of statutory damages.

Because you have registered the song within three months of publication. Because prima face publication has yet to happen, unless the infringer has published it, then you need to get it registered within the dead line to protect those extra rights.

 

So to get back to my original point which was directed to the proposition amateur song writer posting on this site and concerned about theft.

There is absolutely no advantage in registering your work with the LOC.

The perception that a court will give more weight to date of creation evidence because it comes from a government office is false.

Not even the LOC will say this on their web site. That would obviously be unconstitutional.

There are more powerful time of creation evidences than the LOC. Because they are multiple.

We've discussed creation evidence and archiving it with your DAW files. 

The writer would be infringed by a published or unpublished plagiarism. Even if the plagiarism is published he has three months to register and still get full remedies.

 

There is no intention on my part to insinuate in any way that anything songstuff has or has not done is contributing to a deterioration of musician members rights and protections. If it came across like that it is purely because I simplified my explanations to save time. That was a roaring success   I am saying that advocating LOC registration is unnecessary as it does nothing to protect members rights unless they are published. Then the record company does it anyway. Although they have been known to forget. I am telling you this to inform you not to criticize what songstuff is doing. If songstuff has a policy of advocating registration, that is fine I don't have a problem with that.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Gary, that is the ticket! even at 5am you are on!

Thank you. Now i hope u get mine to review!!!!

Lisa

You'll get 90 :-)

[Copywriting]

Thank you Gary, I am glad that you have replied so constructively to me, I was beginning to lose faith in this place. Thank you so much for your input

http://www.copyright.org.au/admin/cms-acc1/_images/21445036164f389f7a9a289.pdf

Hi

Here's a link to an advice sheet for musicians. The only thing you need to be aware of in addition to what is contained in the sheet is that in the US you have to register your copyright before you can take legal action. You do not have to register your copyright before you are infringed to be protected. The time stamp on the registration of the work is not evidence of creation for that you are relying on other time stamps. Read the sheet. Get into the habit of making notes within your song file in your DAW if you are using a program that doesn't allow this use word documents. Use a separate document for each notation so as not to disturb the time stamp. When you finish a project archive everything. Every work tape, note, email. Post your stuff to at least two online services, say sound cloud and sound click. Post your work to online forums such as song stuff plain folks or RMMS. Discuss your songs on line etc.

Cheers

Gary

[Copywriting]

What is to stop you taking a song by any famous band and passing it off

Snip

stamped entries that would go towards constituting proof of authorship (based on who posted first is more likely the owner/author). That aside many authors have their work posted elsewhere too, which all goes towards a burden of proof.

Stronger proof than Songstuff, and many writers on Songstuff do this, and we definitely recommend it, is to register your works with the US copyright registration service. I would recommend this no matter what country you are in. Why? Because it is the biggest jurisdiction on the Internet, and because it is still a respected organisation worldwide.

Hi John

There is a couple of things I would like to say about song registration services. I suppose it is offered free to published writers in the US by ASCAP or whoever is your collection agency. The United Kingdom has a registration service as well. These services are businesses they may even be quangos but they are about making money. There is absolutely no difference in evidential value between their time stamp and yours, zero. Unless the times were identical and that is not possible, yours will always precede theirs. Consider this you post your song to sound cloud and sound click you then upload the links to sonsgtuff. 3 time stamps. Hobosage comments,another time stamp and on it goes. You are well protected. Or you send you registration off and make a $35.00. Payment. And don't post the song anywhere. You have Zero protection because no court will hear your case for an unpublished work as you will be unable to prove access.

In regards to venues for copyright infringements it is common for Americans to assume they run the net. This is incorrect. The choice for venue is up to the injured party, and justifications for venue choices are such things as domicile. If that jurisdiction is a signatory to Berne the judgement is enforceable in all signature countries. Now if I was infringed it would depend on the nature of the infringement.

If it was obviously deliberate or a good chance of being thought so by a reasonable person and the defendant had means, I would choose the US Supreme Court system no question about it. The reason being punitive damages. If the plagiarism could be passed off as unintentional then I would choose the Supreme Court of NSW particularly if the defendant is domicile in the US. The reason being the defendant has to instruct two solicitors one US one NSW and one barrister, Australian. This doubles his costs, plus he has to come here to run his case. So it's a judgement call.

Cheers

Gary

[Copywriting]

Honestly, that wasn't my point. You're a fairly new member, so it's understandable that you don't realize. The staff on this forum go above and beyond in their attempt to be helpful. There are very few questions that we can't or won't at least attempt to address. But....this particular questiion "Will My songs Get Stolen" is NEVER worth asking. That was my one and only point!

 

I went out of my way to specify the context of my reply - "Not so much for you, as for those who have asked and those who will ask....that same question over and over again on sites like ours".

 

If you see some point in attempting to make this about you....and about questions in general, I certainly can't stop you.

But again, my response was about one specific question. You just happened to be the most recent member to ask it.

For all the reasons I listed above, it's not a valid question and there are no good answers to be given.

 

Tom

 

BTW - I've just spend approx. 30 minutes this morning on responses to your post. That's 30 minutes of my personal time (unpaid) that I'll never get back. Does that really sound like we don't try to be helpful?

I disagree with your response. I do not agree that it is not a valid question. It is an imminently understandable one. It does not indicate unhealthy opinions as to the worth of your own work as compared to other members. It is indicative to me of a normal healthy artistic ego, and self esteem.

To say there is no good answer is not correct, I have given the answer in another post and I believe it is a good one. The answer is; highly unlikely, with a rider that posting your song makes it even less likely. I have set out the facts and good and valid reasons for my opinion.

Cheers

Gary

[Copywriting]

So if something here made it big for someone else then it's just tough? No comebacks?

No totally not the case. I actually post songs here to protect them. I will take you through the US system as I am guessing you are in that duristiction. If your not other Berne signatories are pretty similar the differences are procedural.

Point one any work has copyright automatically when it is created. There is no need to register the work.

Copyright protection exists whether you include a statement to that effect or not. The reason for using a

Copyright or phonocord statement symbol and date is to indicate to others that you are aware of your rights and may well peruse them.

Infringement

Unless you are wealthy in the United States and Australia owners of patents copyrights and trademarks would need to carry intellectual property insurance otherwise they would be unlikely to have the wear withal to mount a case.

Proof

Step one the court will not hear the case unless you can prove access. That is it the case goes no further unless you can show on the balance of probabilities that the infringer had access to the work the case closed. Does not matter if it's a direct knock off , if you can not prove access case is closed. That is why posting on sound click or sound cloud is so wonderful as evidence. A time stamped upload (proof of time of creation) a public arena proof of possible access. So you can get past stage one.

The next question of proof. Is to do with creation of the work. The evidence here is earlier drafts, work tapes, discussions on critique forums. Notes in your DAW as you worked the song up. There are dates on all these revisions in your computer system. These can be extracted and are good evidence of creation. Can the infringer show these workings, well he could if he could be bothered forging them but he would need a tech head to manipulate his computer. And it would be a lot of work. If a person is too lazy or so lacking in talent they can't write their own song are they going to be up to faking this? Highly unlikely. One thing they can not fake is the time stamp on the upload, unless they conspire with sys admin at click and cloud and sonsgtuff, plus all the members.

The next question for the court is substantial similarity this is a matter for expert witnesses a musicologist who will give evidence on which bits are substantially similar and what the contribution is to the work as a whole. A stupid myth is you can copy ten percent and get away with it. This is nonsense it is all about the contribution of the similar bits to the work. For example if the riff for jumping jack flash had been written by any other than Kieth Richards there would have been plagiarism of the riff from satisfaction. That would be under two percent of the work yet those riffs are central to the success of both works. The flash riff is a variation of the satisfaction riff and not a disticnt new work.

The next question is an opinion by qualified witnesses, musicologist to review other works and make a call as to whether it is plausible that you wrote the work.

The final question in the US only is that of intent as US courts award punitive damages. That is to say that if after they have ordered the infringer to remove all the plagiarised material from the market place and have it destroyed, and or remit all royalties and court costs to the court for payent to the injured party. If the court feels it was a deliberate act they will punish the offender by awarding you extra money in punitive damages. This amount is dependent on the means of the defendants if they are a multinational record company that could be several million dollars, if it's joe blow fron hickory hollows it could be $5,000.00 the idea is for it to hurt.

Now having said all this most judgements of unintended plagiarism are settled somewhere between these outcomes. In the Harrson case while royalties were handed over no destruction of the phonocord my sweet lord was ordered. In the Lennon case which was settled out of court additional royalties were generated by the rock and roll album to compensate the injured party. There was a subsequent action in that matter but it related to damage to artistic integrity by breach of contract. Which Lennon won with a four hundred odd grand punitive damage award.

Here endeth the copyright rant which is copyright BTW

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Gary, thanks for your input. I see it would've been a big mistake to submitt that.

I couldn't get the original tune out of my head so I scratched this snippit and went with another option I had in the wings. I tweeked it to hopefully create the unstable verse (with better line lengths) and stable chorus. Can you critique this one? thanks, I know it's almost due....

I used a ballad loop on this one.

http://soundcloud.com/lisagates/lisa-m-guzda-week-2

Title: Crying in the Rain

The spring rain will quench my thirst

It’s been a long time drought

I look to the clouds and shout

I can’t stand when it’s dry

These tears I need to cry

Chorus

Cryin in the rain

Letting the past go

Cryin in the rain

Learning how to grow

Crying in the rain

Looking for that rainbow

The chorus is very stable

The verse is not unstable enough and no spotlight as you say.

Line lengths of 6&7 not different enough.

The trick is to build expectation and then dash said expectation to create instability and a spot light.

So long line short line long line the listener expects a short line next so you give them a long line but you resolve the short line

With your rhyme so that what comes after it is spotlighted.

Then because you have a semi resolved pattern you then put in a very short or ver long last line to throw it off balance.

Remember you are only using line length and number of lines to create stability and instability not rhyme this week

.trythis

The spring rain will quench my thirst

It’s been a long time drought

I can’t stand when it’s dry

I look to the clouds and shout at the heavens

Tears I Must cry

It's the best I can do at 5am

Cheers

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Gary, I am going to have a go with your suggestions tomorrow in the morning (USA East Coast time) If I try it now, I'll only get frustrated as I'm not a night owl.

They look good. thank you so much for this.

Lisa

You are welcome Lisa. I have just posted my assignment three with notes as to what I have done and why I have done it.

10.30 p.m., yes too late for recording. 

 

It's a good thing to copy the evaluation check list into your word processor then ask yourself if you are doing each point.

Sort of peer review of your own self if that's possible.

 

I have tried now to create a really unstable feeling in my chorus. Like major

I want you to yell at the speakers get out of there now or you'll wind up dead. sort of feeling. I've got subtractive then deteriorating to a 

consonance rhyme. I really like that trick it's kind of cool. 

 

Now this is so unstable but it doesn't fell like it's falling over. That last note has just got to be on an e minor chord. 

I would never have written a chorus like this before doing this course.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

So Now it's assignment 3 

https://soundcloud.com/snabbu/assigment-3

in this assignment, you will write a new verse and chorus, this time with a fairly stable verse and an unstable chorus, applying the new tools from this lesson—rhyme scheme and rhyme type. Fellow students will evaluate your assignment based on the criteria below. Use them as a checklist in reviewing your own work.

The verse structure is stable.

The verse’s idea is appropriate for creating a stable structure.

The rhyme scheme and/or rhyme types contribute to the verse’s stability.

The chorus structure is unstable.

The chorus’s idea is appropriate for creating an unstable structure.

The rhyme scheme and/or rhyme types contribute to the chorus’s instability.

The verse idea sets up the chorus idea effectively.

The verse language is used effectively. It is specific and vivid.

The chorus’s title is interesting.

 

 

Submission

 

I don’t know who you are

© Gary Yeomans 2013

 

Verse

They all say I should cut out running

Cut my losses dry my tears

I never ever see it coming

Even after all these years

 

Chorus

I don’t know why I still do it

I feel the pain, and I know the fear

It’s like you’ve locked me in, now I’m a lifer

Your words cut me like a rusty knife

I don’t know who you are

 

Notes

The song idea is the difference between what is sensible to do in certain circumstances and what your emotions tell you, you should do, and how they are different.

The verse idea the calm facts set up the emotional chorus as a contrast. You know she should go but you kind of understand why she doesn’t.

 

The verse structure is four lines; alternate lines are of equal length. Nine syllables, seven syllables, nine syllables, seven syllables. The even number of lines and the even line lengths make this structure stable.

 

The verse idea is the statement of facts as to what one should do in an abusive relationship. The stability of the structure allows the narrator to state calmly that she should just leave. Just the facts. This enables the practical facts to be stated so they can be contrasted with the emotive chorus. It enables the listener to easily accept and agree with these facts.

 

The rhyme scheme of the verse is ABAB which supports the stability created by the even line numbers and lengths.

 

The rhyme types are Perfect “Tears / years†and family (nasals) “Running / comingâ€

These rhyme types further support the stable feeling of the verse.

 

The chorus structure is five lines; of uneven lengths. The line lengths increase towards the middle and then decrease towards the end.

The five lines create instability, which is supported by the uneven line lengths. The shortening line lengths towards the end of the chorus create restless motion.

 

The chorus idea is an emotional response to exactly the same circumstance as the factual response in the verse. The idea is to contrast the two. The chorus needs to be unstable to show the irrationality of emotions. In the end the listener can understand both responses, and understands things are not always black and white.

 

The chorus rhyme scheme is unstable being ABBA with a non-rhyming line in front to make it XABBA. This enhances the instability established by the uneven line lengths.

 

The chorus rhyme types get less and less resolved as the chorus continues I am trying to create an emotion of getting more and more lost and not knowing what to do next.

Fear/are (consonance rhyme the least resolved, and most tenuous)

Lifer/knife (subtractive rhyme)

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Here is my submission for Week 2 Assignment (instructions above.)

comments are welcome of course!

http://soundcloud.com/lisagates/lisa-m-guzda-week-2-assignment

 

Go Ahead, It’s Ok by Lisa M. Guzda August 2013

 

Long distance friendship is tough

I think you want to be here

No use falling in love

My heart will surely break in two

‘Cause a text is not enough

 

Go ahead deny me

Go ahead say you don’t care

Go ahead I won’t believe you anyway

It’s ok to call me

It’s ok to say you care

It’s ok you’re gonna need me everyday

 

Hi Lisa

 

Nice little snippet this is so quick writing snippets because you don't have to bother writing a whole song.

 

OK so now ignoring rhyme I am going to do an evaluation just based on a guess of the type of questions I think there will be

 

The verse idea is suitable for an unstable structure: Agree

 

The number of lines adds to the instability: Agree (5 lines odd number = unstable.)

 

The length of the lines supports instability: Somewhat agree ( your line lengths go 7,7,6,8,7) I'd like to see a bit more difference in line lengths. Some could perceive them as being even. You know what your dealing with here. Also you don't have a verse spotlight.

 

Suggestion

 

Long distance friendship is can be so tough

I think you want to be here

No use falling carelessly in love (this is a set up as it matches line one length the punter will then expect line four to match line two.)

My poor heart will surely break, break in two (spotty) or "break into little pieces"

‘Cause a text is not enough

 

Chorus 6 lines stable

 

lengths I am seeing 6,7,10,5,6,10 which is feeling to me like two uneven sets of three lines the odd lengths are not adding to the stability.

 

Suggestion to add stability  do line lengths  short long short long etc. like this.

 

Go ahead and deny me (7)

Go ahead I won’t believe you anyway (10)

Go ahead say you don’t care (7)

You know it’s ok for you to call me (10)

It’s ok if you say you care (7)

It’s ok you’re gonna need me everyday (10)

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Gary, I like the feel of your tidbit.

It looks like you used a spotlight on the line:

Yesterday you said we're getting kind of sad and tired

even the music hightlighted it.

I think you said you hadn't submitted this one (and we have till Monday evening to resubmit anyway) and I wanted to point out that the verse last line and chorus last line rhyme and might distract from the instability.

I'm posting mine below if it that is not ok with you let me know and I'll delete it.

thanks,

Lisa

Hi Lisa

 

I think I might change it because even though this being only assignment two and the rhyme is not supposed to be considered. If people have just watched the rhyme videos they might take it into account.

Actually if it's like the last evaluation there were specific questions and there wont be any questions about rhyme so it should be OK.

 

Well spotted! You spatted my spotlight on sad and tired.

 

I am wondering how unstable we can make alyric before it falls in a heap:-)

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Ah So now week three.

And I have to say it is starting to get interesting and it's making me wonder several wonderings and if nothing else the experiments I am going to have to do to answer my wonderings will create new works.

 

So now I discover that the type of rhyme you use has an effect on the emotion of the song. Ignoring the words you can create a feeling about the words that is not caused by what the words actually say. Interesting stuff.

 

I also discover it's six times as easy to write songs in italian than it is in english. Now he tells me!

 

Here are my lecture notes for week three.

 

 

Lesson three

 

Lecture 1 Rhyme schemes

Rhyme schemes can be stable or unstable.

The most stable would be two equal length rhyming couplets.

Rhyming couplets fracture four line sequences into two, two line sequences.

Unrelenting rhyming couplets fracture a song and make it drag.

Rhyming couplets reduce the hook emphasis to two equal emphasized lines, line two and four. Rather than one emphasised line four if you are using abab

 

Refer to Pat’s parlour same song different journey.

http://www.patpattison.com/pparchivedifjourney/

 

 

 

The deceptive cadence technique. Is a hook emphasis technique, it is unstable.

Using line length, long line, short line, long line, you lead the listener to think that line four will be a short line rhyming with line two. You make it a long line rhyming with line three. The end of line four is then emphasized.

 

Lecture 2 Rhyme schemes cont:

Stable rhyme schemes.

Aabb

Abab

 

Unstable rhyme schemes

Abba ( example; sweet baby James)

 

 www.pa

 

Lecture 3 Perfect rhymes

There is a scale of rhyme types that goes from most resolved to least resolved.

Just as there is a variety of tonic chords that affect the resolution of melody.

Root note melody with triad chord root in bass most stable.

Examples C Chord with C melody cadence. Most stable to least stable list

C Bass

G Bass

E Bass

E Bass ( no C in chord)

E Bass ( 7^th note in chord B, becomes E minor )

 

Rhymes

Perfect rhyme

Vowel sounds the same “Blood/Mudâ€

Consonants after the vowel are the same “Blood/Mudâ€

Rhyming syllables begin differently

Perfect rhyme is fully resolved.

 

Lecture 4 Family Rhyme

Phonetic relationships.

 

Consonant groups

Plosives

P T K unvoiced

B D G Voiced (partners)

 

Fricatives

V Th Z Zh J Voiced

F  TH S Sh CH Unvoiced (partners)

 

Nasals

M N Ng

 

Family rhyme definition

Vowed sounds the same “Blood/Mudâ€

Consonants after the vowel if any are phonetically related “ Mud Butâ€

Rhyming syllables begin differently

Family rhyme is not fully resolved.

 

Functions of rhyme

Resolution

Acceleration

 

Lecture 5 Additive and Subtractive rhyme

 

Additive rhymes are where sound is added to the rhyming word like.

Cry/ ride (voice plosive “d) The least sound you add the more stable the rhyme.

Cry/smile is for example less resolved.

Additive rhymes are more stable than subtractive.

 

Subtractive rhymes are where something is removed.

Eg: Smile/cry

 

Lecture six Assonance rhyme

These are always unstable

Definition only the vowel sound rhymes the consonant following are unrelated.

EG:

Life (fricative consonant)

Tide (plosive consonant)

These will diminish forward motion and diminish resolution.

 

Lecture seven consonance rhyme

This is the most unresolved rhyme.

Definition the vowel sounds are different the consonant sounds are the same this is the weakest form of rhyme. But is very expressive eg Hasn’t down the wind. The end of the innocence. (defence/innocence)

 

Stability list in order most stable first

Perfect Rhyme

Family

Additive

Subtractive

Assonance

Consonance

 

 

The rhyme type itself will create emotion in the lyric. 

[I'm Doing A Course]

Lol I did not even go through the discussion forums.

Pat has a good way to put things through. I feel all that he's saying can be applied perfectly when rewriting a rough idea rather than applying it WHILE writing a song for the first time. (Doesn't hurt to keep all of them in mind but it shouldn't deviate from the feel and emotion of the song) That's just my opinion.

 

I've downloaded all his lectures. So that I can go through them every now and then.

Hi Mahesh

 

There is certainly some eye opening stuff on the forums. I mean when you are used to being critiqued here by the likes of messieurs Creek, Sage, Rudi, Skylark, et al. To come up against such lack of knowledge is a bit of a shock.

 

Still onward and upward this week rhyme.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Gary, I don't need to take any notes...I see you are doing much better than me in that department! ;-)

I think I am just writing down what is new to me, and leaving the items Pat discusses that I already do out of my notes...hmmm sounds like I'll have some holes if I ever need to go back. Oh well.

My only worry about this course is that Pat will make it too much of a methodical process that my artistic thoughts and ideas might be shadowed or pushed aside.

OMG! Have you read the forums for this course! Whoa there are some simple minded folks taking this course right now. I'm getting a big laugh out of the Peer Review threads. LOL!

Chat soon,

Lisa

I took all the notes because I sort of committed to review the course here so if someone wanted to do it they'd know if it was applicable. 

I wouldn't be too concerned about loosing creativity. Consider this write a song like you have always done, then go back and edit it according to the tools of Pat. If it makes the song better very good. If not give it the flick. The other thought I have is say you wanted to create that real feeling of not knowing what to do being lost in your song. You can say I know I'l try a consonant rhyme, then say how does that sound feel. So if its tools not rules then I think there is nothing to worry about. 

 

Yea well I had to comment on a few of those threads because of the simple minds. I mean you have to worry about the peer reviews you are going to get.

 

Post your assignment to the adjunct thread if you want I'd like to see it.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Its a testament to the course that you have already felt inspired to write for the assignment.

 

Is the lyric likely to go public do you think?

I think I will write it when the course is over because at the moment there is stuff to do every week.

I guess it might be that I can write this as an assignment further down the track.

Cheers

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

So Now I have just completed Lesson 2

Here are my notes

 

Lecture one: Prosody

Prosody is essential to any successful work in any discipline.

Everything in the song should belong there and support the song idea.

The broad concept of prosody covers stable and unstable concepts.

Decide if the feeling is stable or unstable and use the appropriate tools.

The reason for using stable or unstable is to assist in making choices as to whether

An intuitive idea, you have actually fits with the verse or chorus you are writing.

 

Lecture two: Stable and unstable recognition practice.

If it feels like a statement of fact it’s stable.

If it feels like there is an unsaid subtext, or something is missing it’s unstable.

 

Lecture three: Introduction to the five elements to create stability and instability in lyrical ideas. They are

(1)  Number of lines

(2)  Matched or unmatched line lengths

(3)  Rhyme scheme

(4)  Rhyme types

(5)  Rhythm of lines.

 

Lecture four: Using the number of lines in a section to create stability or instability.

 An even number of lines tends to feel stable.

An odd number of lines tends to feel unstable.

The feeling creating can support the lyrical message.

Chant lyrics in rhythm tapping with a pencil or use a drum loop. Or a simple musical loop.

 

Lecture Five: Expanding on the effect of number of lines.

There are three other effects of the numberer of lines used.

(1) Spotlighting important ideas in the song.

The balancing position ie: when something is resolved automatically highlights that point. So the idea in the last line of an even number of lines will be emphasised. An unexpected addition of a fifth line to a four line verse structure will spotlight the idea in that line.

(2) To stop song motion or move the song forward from one section to another.

So typically odd number of lines are used in sections that move onto something else like the pre chorus

(3) To create contrast between sections.

 

Lecture Six: The effect of length of lines.

Two lines of the same length feel stable.

Two lines of unequal length feel unstable.

A shorter second line give the lyric forward motion

A balance second line stops the motion of the lyric.

A longer second line creates a spotlight but no forward motion because the previous line length has been matched, and then we’ve added something. It is the added something that is emphasised.

 

Lecture Seven: Further discussion of line length.

Line lengths can be used to create prosody due to being stable or unstable.

Line lengths contrast one section to another.

Line lengths can be used to move from one section to another.

Line lengths can act as a hook emphasis technique.

An example of contrast and prosody is Paul Simons 50 Ways to leave your lover.

Long verse lines contrast with very short chorus lines. Also prosody is achieved by the fact that the verse lines are long and relaxed. The chorus lines are short and urgent. In other words leave as fast as you can type of feeling.

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

 So Now Assignment Two

 

In this assignment, you will write an unstable verse that moves into a stable chorus. Fellow students will evaluate your assignment based on the criteria below. Use them as a checklist in reviewing your own work.

The verse is unstable.

The verse’s idea is appropriate for creating an unstable structure.

The number of lines and/or the matching and unmatching of line

lengths contribute to the verse’s instability.

 

The chorus is stable.

The chorus’s idea is appropriate for creating a stable structure.

The number of lines and/or the matching and unmatching of line

lengths contribute to the chorus’s stability.

 

The verse idea sets up the chorus idea effectively.

The chorus’s title is interesting.

Important ideas are spotlighted.

 

Using primarily number of lines and line lengths, write an unstable verse that moves into a stable chorus. Of course, since the verse is unstable, what it says should be appropriate to the structure. If you create a spotlight, try to place an important idea there, where it’s most likely to be noticed. You may submit your verse/chorus with or without music. If you choose to put it to music, you may use your own or write to one of the musical loops provided in the Resources area of the class site.

 

Submission

 

 

https://soundcloud.com/snabbu/assignement-2

 

Now it’s not Love

© Gary Yeomans 2013

In the dying embers of what we had

Nothing's happening nothing's new

Yesterday you said we're getting kind of Sad and tired

Neither one of us can bring ourselves to say

It's time we let it slip away.

 

Chorus

It's come time for us to leave each other

It wasn't meant to be this way 

No point holding on to one another

Now it's not love that makes us stay.

[An Adjunct To I'm Doing A Course.]

Hi  

The assignment for lesson one is to start planning a song from a song idea deciding on how the song will be developed through box one two and three. Who what where when and why etc. My assignment appears below.

 

Pick one of the following titles (or use one of your own) and, using the boxes below as a guide, describe how you would develop it (i.e., what would go in Box 1, what would go in Box 2, and what would go in Box 3).

• The Good Old Days
• Two Story House
• Fool’s Gold
• Home Brew
• The Other Side of Goodbye

 

 

 

"Two Story House" The development engine is point of view. The song is about a marriage that is falling apart. But in the end is saved.

 

Box one contains His story. He runs his own business and spends long days at work. He feels she takes him for granted. He feels unappreciated   He lives in a two-story house (a house with two stories, as in tales).

 

Box two contains Her story. She works and looks after two kids, running them to sport ballet etc. She feels he takes her for granted, he never comments on the meals she cooks, he can't even make it to his kids school concert he is always at work she feels he is avoiding his family. She lives in a two-story house (a house with two stories, as in tales).

 

Box three their story: There is a bridging section to show how when they determine that what they once had is worth saving they will try to get it back. And that they are not staying together for their kids they are staying together for each other. They will now fix up their marriage, put in some effort, do some work on it. In the final chorus the title (hook) is twisted to become "They live in a single story house" to signify they have got it back together.

 

Select a point of view that seems appropriate. Answer the questions:

Who is talking?

To whom?

Why?

 

Who is talking? The point of view is direct address. In box one he is talking to her. In box two she is talking to him. In box three they are both talking to each other. They are talking because they know their marriage is failing, they know they once had something good. They think it is worth saving and they make a pact to try again.

 

Describe (without actually writing a lyric or song) when and where this is happening.

 

When: This takes place in the past present and future. The present is how they are feeling now, boxes one and two. The past is referred to in the bridging section in box 3 to support why they will try again, remembering what they once had. The future is in box three. Looking forward to a new life, now that they have decided to work on their marriage.

Where: Box one is set in the office of his small business. Boxes two is set in her car. Box three is set in the kitchen of their house.

[I'm Doing A Course]

Ok so I have watched all the lectures for lesson one. I am very up about this; Pat has a great way of getting his point across.

This lesson in on lyric writing. There is not a lot in here that I didn't already know. I just didn't know I knew it, because it came from the university of the radio.

 

Also and what's important is work methods I did not know about. Work methods that make it easier to develop ideas. Also a fairly good safety device so you don't get off track.

 

Firstly songs are communication and if the listener is left unsure who is talking to whom and why. The song may not communicate well and may be a lesser write because of that. My lecture notes are below.

Lecture one

Every song should answer three questions

Who is talking?

To Whom

Why

If it doesn’t then it will be less of a song than it could have been.

 

We really should be carrying a small notebook with us every where to jot down ideas, because they come from our environment. 

An example of this was Pat saw all these two story houses in a row on some development when he was here. So he wrote that down as a song idea. 

 

Now he developed that Idea as a house with two floors the upper one containing a painter using the light, the lower floor a musician noodling away in the dark.

 

I immediately had a totally different take on the idea. Like what if the house was like the marital home with a family living it and the couple were drifting apart like one house but two different stories as in tales.  I liked that so much I think I may write it.

 

We also discussed in more detail the issue of who is singing the story and who is best to be singing for what songs. There are four possible voices. The work method is you write say one verse and set it in all four voices then make a decision which one is doing the best job for that particular song. (This is something I have never done but will do from now on. Although sometimes the subject matter seems to determine which voice you would use quite obviously. You couldn’t write “Help†in anything other than direct address)

 

The voices in order of intimacy with the most intimate first are: Direct address, 2nd person Narrative, 1st person narrative, 3rd person narrative.

 

My lecture notes appear below with examples of each voice.

There was a quiz on this which involved listening to about 8 songs on youtube and the selecting which of the four voices the song was in.

 

Lecture 2

Keep a song ideas book. 

 

Establishing who is talking

1 storyteller 3^rd person narrative point of view, most objective omnipotent not intimate.

"She did this he did that"

2 storyteller 1^st person narrative point of view more intimate.

"I did this she did that"

3 storyteller 2^nd Person narrative more intimate still

"You did this she did that"

4 Direct address most intimate

"You did this I did that"

 

This next lecture speaks to efficiency in writing because it deals with a way to progress the story in the song. Like don't have all your ideas in the first verse dribble them out verse by verse. Pat does this with three boxes and whatever the song idea is he uses a method to develop it. So that the information becomes clearer, and the song idea more reinforced as it progresses. Like the lyric is going somewhere to a climax. So that when it is set to music and the music goes somewhere, and the production goes somewhere. We all go there together and that is a very good thing.

 

The two development techniques he discussed were to use a time line; like this happened in the past, this is happening now, and then this will happen in the future. The other technique was to explain the story from three different perspectives. So we talk about me, we talk about her, then we talk about us. I am sure there must be more methods than these, and I will spend some time thinking about them to see if that's true, maybe that's all there is. I will let you know when I come to a conclusion.

 

What is important to grasp here is this song development method of three boxes; the beginning the middle and the end, or you I and us, bears no relation to the song structure. It is not like three verses one for each subject. The me could be two verses, the her could be the third verse, and the us could be the bridge.

 

The most valuable thing for me in this lecture was; I have my idea, I have decided on a way to develop the idea, and I have written it down in three boxes. I can now let my mind wander all over the place in regard to how I work up the three boxes.  I won't get lost, or confused, or distracted from the main song idea. Because I am inside box number one, and I always know what I should be doing in there. The same goes for box two or three. Pat tongue in cheek calls this thinking inside the box. Only dumb suits in the city think outside the box :-)

 

So if we look at my interpretation of Pat's two stories song idea; I have decided that I will use perspective technique.

Box one His story; Box two her story; Box three their story. (note I have written that in third person narrative but this hasn't been decided yet. Because as I work it up it may change to work better as very personal. Like My story your story our story. Which would be direct address, the most intimate. And that will depend on hook ideas etc. The point is I know all this and I have yet to write a word. Normally I wouldn't know any of this until after the words were written. This is a major difference. My Lecture notes appear below.

 

Lecture 3

Song development song ideas should develop and move forward.

Development engine,

(1)  Timeline method past, present, future

(2)  Perspective method You I us

 

So now we are looking at developing the ideas within the boxes. So to do this you work up your idea addressing some or all or most of the following

questions. Who is talking and whom are they talking too. What are they saying, and why are they saying what they are saying. When did this happen, where did it happen and how?

 

So I guess depending on the development technique you are using; timeline, or perspective. Some of what you work up in each box is going to be pretty obvious. If you are doing timeline when would obviously be in box one.

 

This is interesting so you have this story when did it happen? in the summer, in the spring, in the morning, in the night, 3am in the morning or what? So it starts to generate ideas. Because if my "house of two stories" ( see the change from with to of . A more developed hook idea.) If this happened at 3 am it probably happened in the bedroom, and it was probably a blazing row over the differences detailed in the two peoples stories. If it happened at some other time then it may have just been a drifting apart.

 

So see how you sit there and work up this whole story in your head, about who these people are, then you distill that story down to a few lines. To me I am imagining like a sauce in a pot on the stove, like gravy and it's watery.  But I keep cooking it, driving of the steam to get to its essence. In the end I have a very strong flavor. I think this could happen with a song as you distill this entire story down to verses and bridges. So you end up with a super strong lyric. I hope this is right. Because making up all of these stories or aspects and not really worrying about rhyme or form is quite liberating and a lot of fun. 

 

Consider this before you even bother to write a line you can sit down with your partner and tell her the song story in great detail with the chorus idea interspersed. Between each of your three parts. Is it interesting did the story grab her could it be more interesting if something else happened that you have not thought of. Does she care about the people in the story? If the answers no then you could save hours by not writing this and working on something else. 

 

Lecture 4

Developing the song ideas within the development engine.

In each stage Who What When Where Why How

Who when where are the most powerful

 

The next topic discussed was song form. This I know already in greater detail that was discussed in the course. What the parts of the song are and what they are supposed to do what a chorus is and what it isn’t. What bridges do etc. There was no discussion of other song forms other than verse pre chorus and bridge. ( like AB form example “ (somewhere over the rainbowâ€)Also the function of the bridge was not described in the detail as I would understand it’s multiple functions. It was described simply as a bridge between two other parts of the song. There was no discussion about using bridges as a reveal or that they should add to or clarify the story.

I didn’t make lecture notes for this one because; this is already second nature to me. 

 

The verses tell the detailed story of the song; the chorus sums up the story, and must of course work with each aspect of the story. Or it answers questions posed in the verse. The bridge adds an extra dimension to the story or reveals something about the story that was hidden up until then.

 

The last lecture was about choruses. Pat spoke for about twelve minutes about hook emphasis without once using the term but that was what it was about. The chorus must have the best lyrical and musical ideas and you don’t allow these ideas to be used elsewhere in the song. He used the analogy of a bride and the bride’s mother buying wedding dresses. Trying them all on till they found one that really made the bride look fabulous. Then the bride’s mother selects the plainest dowdiest bridesmaid dresses to dress the attendants in.

So at the wedding the bride already looks fabulous but is made to look all the more fabulous in comparison to the bridesmaids who look plain. The chorus is the bride the verses are the bridesmaids and although he didn’t actually use the term, the fabulous dress is the hook and the hook emphasis. All of this I knew already but it was nice to have it confirmed. And to have it explained in a parable I now have that image in my head, of the parts of a song, and where the bling should go. I can think of it as choosing a diamond tiara and whacking on the bride’s head. So that is good.

 

Something else that came up in one of the lectures was to do with music production that there is such a thing called a production graph used by producers to map out the peaks and climaxes in a song. I looked on the net to see if I could find a link that would explain this chart and I couldn’t so basically as I understand it.

The production starts out simple and builds towards the chorus, the chorus then is more intense. Then the intensity drops back down for verse two but not down to the level of verse one. Then builds up to the second chorus, which is more intense than the first. Then the bridge, that is more intense than all that has come before. Then the final chorus, where they throw the kitchen sink at it.  So that was interesting. I critiqued a song by studiobee yesterday and I knew there was a production issue but I wasn’t able to explain it very well now I know exactly what the issue is. He threw the kitchen sink in verse one and just kept going at a manic level all the way through so there was shit loads going on but it still didn’t go anywhere because there was nowhere left to go.

 

In conclusion my first impressions of the course are positive and my impression of the lecturer is very positive.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Sounds interesting. Is he going to make you more efficient with instruments, songwriting, recording, or everything?

I think melody and lyrics but I also think he uses loops to quickly work up ideas. The course is song writing so I guess arrangement and demo production wont come into that.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

Hi, Gary!

 

Hope you enjoy the Berklee [no Y] course with Pat Pattison [no ER]! (I know... They decided to use uncommon spellings of BOTH!)

 

I assume this is an Internet course, yes?

Yea it's a bit far to commute New England NSW to New England USA

Starts on saturday so we shall see if he can make me more efficient.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

[I'm Doing A Course]

I have decided to do a six week course with the Berkley School of Music. The lecturer is Pat Patterson.

I start Saturday I think. He promises to make me more efficient. So we shall see.

Anybody interested I'l post updates to this thread.

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

Wrap up

 

So now the course is over. The overall impression is its avery worthwhile thing to do.

 

The only thing about the course is the peer review system which worries me. And I'm not saying that because of crook results in my last assignment I got 92% from my peers but I was still dismayed by one comment. It's like pedantic stuff.

I find it frustrating to be lectured in english by someone on diphthongs in regard to my rhyme scheme. I had a word I wanted to use and I didn't want a perfect rhyme just wanted to rhyme the vowels, and yes I know the vowel sounds for real and teach are slightly different but it is what I wanted to say and they are close enough for me.

The misunderstanding  of the use of phrasing for contrast, in my chorus continued the annoyance. 

Front and back heavy phrasing is used for prosody sad or longing or uncertain lines have a back heavy phasing to create prosody. ( that is you start the first accented line on a weak beat instead of a strong beat.) Positive or stable lines are front heavy. The first stressed word on beat one. I had used Front heavy on "It's all in the way you fall" and back heavy on "All in the way you fall" His comment was they are saying the same thing so why the different phrasing. The chorus lyric follows. the (f) means I am phrasing it front heavy. The ( means I am phrasing it back heavy. 

 

 

It’s all (f)

It’s all (f)

It’s all in the way you fall (f)

All in the way you fall (

 

Two things: all of the "It's all" are front heavy, it's a statement of fact I want the listener to believe.

For this reason "It's all in the way you fall" also has to be front heavy.

All in the way you fall is back heavy for contrast to make the hook stick out, and to create a nagging sense of doubt that I know that even though you believe me you are still hurting. Now when you take so much trouble to write this deep and someone comes along and says this. (see peer 5) It makes you shake your head.

 

peer 1 → Very nice song. All the best in everything you do, and don't forget to Write Fearlessly.

peer 3 → Good result which should spur you on to writing more and more when course finishes. Nice to review a colleague who can actually sing and sing in tune with excellent character in voice (important even though it was not the assignment objective)

peer 4 → I think the front and back heavy lines are mislabeled, but I like the song very much, especially the bridge and chorus. Guy has a really good voice. The harmony an unexpected surprise.

peer 5 → Don't understand why you'd make "it's all in the way you fall" a front-heavy line, but "all in the way you fall" a back-heavy? The essence is the same. Also, noticed some rhyme scheme discrepancies: abbac in the first verse and abbcd in the second. "Deep" and "real" have different diphthongs, but "deal" and "real" or "deep" and "reap" share same diphthongs. Otherwise, a great sound production! Really enjoy listening to it.

But apart from the pedantic peer issue I found it to be a great experience it is free and I highly recommend it.

Here is my last assignment which I am currently working up a proper recording of. I am still not sure if it's mad that much difference to my writing but it was very interesting.

 

All in the way you fall

© Gary Yeomans 2013

 

http://snd.sc/15NMP8K

 

Verse

It lays me low to see you weep (

I can recall when to hold you could fix anything (f)

From a scraped knee to bogyman dreaming (f)

I know it’s not the time for lessons to keep, ( or making a speech(f)

But there’s something I want you to know (f)

 

chorus.

It’s all (f)

It’s all (f)

It’s all in the way you fall (f)

All in the way you fall (

 

Verse

Now love has come and cut you deep (

I know that words at this time cannot heal everything (

It’s all right crawling fallings hard going (f)

You know that your life with lessons to teach, is sharing what’s real (

And there’s something it wants you to know (f)

 

chorus.

It’s all (f)

It’s all (f)

It’s all in the way you fall (f)

All in the way you fall (

 

Bridge

Never stop taking chances (f)

Don’t let this stop you making plans (f)

Never start building fences (f)

Don’t let this chain or tie your hands (f)

 

chorus.

It’s all (f)

It’s all (f)

It’s all in the way you fall (f)

All in the way you fall (

 

 

Cheers

 

Gary

 

 

[Song Structure]

Hi Anthony

I would add this.

Because there is a lot going on lyrically in the verses melodically it needs to be reasonably linear.

If the verse asks questions the chorus should answer them even if the answer is blowing in the wind.

Verse melodies need to be more melodic than linear verse melodies therefore the lyrics in the chorus must be simple or repetitive.

Have something going on all the time but not everything going on at once.

Hooks can not sit as an island unto themselves they need to be set up and emphasised. A song should contain as many hooks as you can think of. Melodic, lyric, instrumental and production. If you want a master class in hook management you really can't go past ABBA.

The bridge is an important part of a song it is your opportunity to write a second chorus, not just some fill in piece. Sometimes lyrically it is the reveal. That is you set up a story in the verses and choruses preceeding the bridge which appears to be one thing but the bridge reveals that it is something else altogether. Example "my girl bill"

Musically the pre chorus or lift should create tension which is released by the commencement of the chorus. The absolute master of the lift is Neal Diamond. Reference "I am I said" the lift in this just goes on for ever. Also cheap trick " if you want my love you've got it"

These two songs are an essential study in lift writing.

Cheers

Gary

[Make Your Listeners Want To Hear Your Songs Over And Over]

We will keep you posted Anthony. Also couldn't download your booklet on my iPad I'l try on my MacBook later.

Cheers

Gary